Boltinho

June 1, 2020

I've just seen this. Really cool to see that some of my old stuff is still being used and played with in the TEW world. My CVerse XL mod was a lot of fun to make so I'm glad it's not totally dead.

Great work on the mod. I'll be having a play around with it later one

Also - there were originally challenges to go for each of the promotions in the mod. Some of them might even still be relevant.

The post was on this page:

http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=523204&page=2

June 1, 2020

OK I ran World War. And the results were... mixed.

I was really happy with the individual segment grades [the hot stuff break up angle was pre-match not post-match but whatevs].

But I'm confused about the overall grade.

Top matches were 84, 76, 71.

Top angles were 88, 82, 77.

Definitely NOT set to "ensemble" for either. I thought "regular" was similar to the old main-matches-count-more. Is that not the case?

May 30, 2020

Brickhouse... Hmm... He's French right? I'd stick a French Love Machine gimmick on him and make him a creepy, Big Daddy V, jobber in no time! Decent pop, so guys you want to push can beat him with roll-ups when neither shoulder is technically down. He'll fall down the card and help get other guys over by losing to them. That's his role as far as I see it. Matches can be 2-5 minutes with him!

I think both Misery and Apollo are too good to be his partner. But I'd be interested in a team between those two! Apollo is a future star, and could benefit greatly from teaming with a guy who knows his onions in the ring. Misery could be the 'straight' guy, to Prince's flamboyance/athleticism.

With Company, I'd probably put her with another team to beat down on Misery, compounding his 'Misery' about the break-up, and that's when he brings Prince in to be his partner That feud can go on for months, building Mark and Apollo's experience as a duo. If it works, they can be unleashed on the rest of the excellent Tag division and make a push for the Titles.

Thanks dude. Some excellent suggestions there. Apollo/Misery does make a lot of sense.

Normally I'd have a trio of them and Brickhouse. But with the 3 man army AND Hellbound AND Ed's crew there's already a lot of heel stables.

Will definitely use some of this though. Thanks

May 30, 2020

My card for World War:

Ed Cornell [C] vs Tommy Cornell in an "I quit!" match for the 21CW World Championship

Tommy's going to win this. For now...

Ed's stable will fall apart a little in the aftermath as he turns on even his friends. He'll be left with just the silent Doomsday as his ally.

Men of Steel [C] vs the Underdogs vs Crouching Sifu Hidden Storm vs The Red Devils

4 way match for the 21CW tag titles

Probably going to put the belt on Storm/Sifu. The tag belts have been downgraded a bit with the Men of Steel holding them. I'd like to build them back up

Adam Matravers vs Hot Stuff in a handicap match

Buff is going to turn on J-B leading to the breakup of Hot Stuff.

Not quite sure what they're all going to do next.

Apollo Prince vs Daniel Black Francis

Apollo has been gold. Really, really good angles. He'll be getting another good feud. Even if he does have to try and do something with Brickhouse...

Bedlam [C] vs Sebastien Koller for the 21CW UK Championship

The Hellbound have been trying to abduct/kidnap/turn Seb. But Seb is a superstar so...

Another case of me wanting to elevate all my belts a little.

Wade Orson vs Rolling Johnny Stones

Wade is my next top face. Tommy and Adam are not getting younger [Tommy already gets dinged due to physical decline].

This was a placeholder story for him and he'll win comfortably..

Leigh Burton vs Luke Cool

This is a problem because heel/heel but they've both been excellent. Leigh is a future champ for me so he's getting a clean win too.

May 30, 2020

Oof. I'm really not sure much can be done with Brickhouse. He's basically built so he can only ever be a squash monster. Unless you get super lucky with his potential.

And sticking him in a tag with Apollo just doesn't fit with that.

Oh well. I'll give it a go!

The tag teams at 21CW are really an important part of the company IMO.

Ab Flawless, CSHS, Hot Stuff are all really, really good. Throw in the Red Devils and the Underdogs and you've got a good division.

As soon as you take the belts of the Men of Steel. Their time will come but it's not now. You need those 2 solid tag grades per show in the early game.

Especially as the title bio says it's traditionally been a very strong division.

May 29, 2020

Great news - Brickhouse Balder and Apollo Prince have great chemistry as partners!

Bad news - Brickhouse is such a fatty he can only go 7 minutes in the ring.

I am not sure what to do with this

May 29, 2020

OK. Looking for some input here chums.

Mark Misery and Vicki Company just got divorced.

They could have warned me.

Im thinking of putting Mark in a tag team because he desperately needs someone else to help him out. Maybe Brickhouse?

Vicki is a good manager so she can move onto a bigger gig. Maybe Beast Bantom? Or Brickhouse? Or even Ruin?

The other question - do I make a storyline/angle out of it? Or just split them up and move on?

May 29, 2020

My development company has on the roster:

Dreadnought

James Diaz

Charlie Corner

Original Sinner

Primetime Jack Pryde

Thorsten Sigurdsson

Blue Dragon

So of course the main event in their first show was Sharif winning the title over Bat Cooper.

May 29, 2020

Louis Figo Manico would fall in that category too.

His bio hints pretty heavily he was planning on coming back to the biz but never quite got round to it. Rather than absolutely wanted to never work in it again.

May 29, 2020

Anyone experimented with comedy matches in 21CW?

Seems like it should be a significant part of their shows. But I haven't got round to it yet

May 29, 2020

Phoebe Plumridge has a hot new catchphrase.

She's such a good asset anyway and it really seems to be helping her.

May 28, 2020

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ElSheriffo" data-cite="ElSheriffo" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="48006" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Just decided to start up a quick game with 21CW to give them a go and had The Minor Annoyance show up on my Hidden Gems list, first time I've ever seen him appear there. Now I have to give him a run against some of the super heavyweight monsters</div></blockquote> This is gold. Sign him. Stick him in a tag team with Brickhouse Balder or Gorilla Lee or Roly Muckletruck. All would be a ton of fun

May 28, 2020

Gah.

The network vetoed running a cinematic graveyard match on TV.

Or a buried alive match.

Or a casket match.

There goes my Grave Digger plan.

May 28, 2020

Compten Valence got a big ol' destiny roll. He's going to be good.

And just to cap it off Tommy Cornell took him on as a protege.

Being Tommy's protege is pretty massive news around the rasslin' world right?

May 27, 2020

Yeah - I was referring to them in relation to other workers.

For a random undercarder with good menace then using it will be a good thing for him to do.

But the old trope of "young menacing guys get over as support for established star" is really hard to pull off. Because the fact they're not over drags down angle ratings.

Let's use Faust and Grave Digger as an example again so I'm clearer.

The old approach [and one I think is strongly rooted in reality] is that Digger hangs around and gets over by being associated by Faust. Digger doesn't do much and if he's asked to talk or wrestle he's a bit of a problem.

I don't expect Digger to add anything to a Faust angle at all. He's way less over so even if his menace and SQ are great then he shouldn't be expected to add a bonus.

Cool.

But at the moment Digger pulls down Faust Angles by about 15%. Enough that in a big company [which needs storylines to stay above 65] it's a problem. Because unless Faust [or anyone else of course] is a guy that churns out 75+ angles the Grave Digger drag is likely to keep them under the threshold for hot storylines.

I do not want or expect Menace to b a cheat code. it was overpowered.

But "menacing undercarder gets over by shadowing stud" is tough to pull off right now and I think that's a problem.

You can still do it - but at the moment you need to accept the drain they have on angles - or put them in as unrated. I don't really like either of those options. I'd much rather they got over slowly and steadily without dragging segments down.

But failing that how have people booked around it? That was the original question.

The options I see are:

Get monsters over by squash matches and a long, slow burn

Put them in programs with stars - and accept the drag on grades

Avoid monsters and use other, more bankable assets </li></ul>

Given that 21CW in particular is very well-stocked with young, menacing undercarders this seems a good question.

Mostly what people have said to me today is "Use option 1 and give them squashes" which is fine for one or two of them. But 21CW have many. Grave Digger, Blackheart, Gorilla Lee, Assassin, Ruin, Mass Hulk, Kelvin Badberry, Doomsday, War Machine, Roly Muckletruck, Brickhouse Balder...

So either one of the biggest companies in the world has a serious roster problem. Or there's another route I'm overlooking.

May 27, 2020

1) "Monster" gimmicks usually come with bonuses for squash matches. You can see the effects of a gimmick when you click on it in your roster screen (same way you change the gimmick)

2) Menace IS a shortcut if they have low popularity. When you have 0 overness and 100 menace you can pull off solid ratings on angles.

3) Menace, by its nature, is a weak way to book an angle. The active skills (Fighting/Entertainment etc.) are what gets people going.

4) Adam has said he is nerfing menace and has done so for several versions. Menace used to be the shortcut to instant fame and success but that was viewed as a bug, not a feature.

5) Just look at your math and you'll see that no, menace is not worse than overness. If your menace stat is higher than your popularity then it will drag it upwards. Just the more popular you are the more diminishing returns you get from high menace.

1) "Monster" gimmicks usually come with bonuses for squash matches

Yep. Still useful for companies with one monster who can squash someone every week and get over. Nice.

2) Menace IS a shortcut if they have low popularity.

Well yeah. But so are other skills [mic skills, sex appeal, high flying, etc]

Obviously having good menace is better than not having a trump card.

It's just that any other trump card is better.

3) Menace, by its nature, is a weak way to book an angle.

I know this is how it works now. I just think it's been nerfed too hard.

Having a lone guy ONLY rated on menace in a solo angle is boring. I get that.

Having a really menacing unknown dragging down an angle where a star is doing all the talking... I don't think that's right.

5) Just look at your math and you'll see that no, menace is not worse than overness.

Obviously pop is better than menace. Pop is better than anything. That's the game right?

The point is - menace has been nerfed SO hard. It is what it is. No point complaining about it.

My question is - are there viable ways to use it now?

You used to be able to get low-ranking guys with menace in big storylines.

I don't know if that's still viable. I don't think so but I'd love to be proven wrong!

As I understand it mic skills are waaay better than menace. Entertainment splits 40/60. Menace just 25/75. And guys with good mic skills tend to be better workers. So the likes of Phil harmonic, Beau Bolder and Dangermouth are better prospects than Blackheart or Grave Digger.

That feels like it should be true in some companies but not others.

Old Skool USPW or 21CW were built on big, scary guys being able to get over regardless of other skills. Giant Redwood and T-Rex were national stars. Darryl Devine couldn't get over.

I'm not sure the current game mechanics match up with c-verse lore.

May 27, 2020

I actually did that and Tribal Warrior too. I stopped playing this save though before they really got anywhere (although Warrior was doing a great job helping get Orson to main event because of their chemistry).

I started a developmental save game for 21CW while waiting for the full release and I'm enjoying it more because of the toxic backstage atmosphere so stuck with that for now.

Nice. Tribal Warrior makes a ton of sense.

Any old ex-US big boy workers really.

I'm struggling a little bit with mid-range heels so things like this are perfect as short-term fixes.

These guys, Stevie Stoat, Nigel Svensson and Merle... All perfect for bringing in for a month or two.

May 27, 2020

Don't know if any of these are of use to anyone...

Thanks for sharing.

Im going back and collecting old renders and alts at the moment. Some awesome ones here.

Lone Wolf is a fave.

Thanks for sharing

May 27, 2020

Isn't it just more gradual? Your unknown monster comes in, has no popularity, and the angle gets a D. Not great, but he'll earn popularity out of that. Just because it isn't as good an angle as your main event talents are pulling off, doesn't make it worthless, does it? Especially if you have TV, all you're trying to do is get him on TV so his pop rubber bands to the promotion's minimum.

Now he has a little popularity, he's getting a D+. More popularity. Let's have him squash a few guys, boost that momentum. Beat a veteran. Next time he's getting C's.

That feels right to me. I don't think Brock Lesnar's first appearance was a A* incredible angle. It was probably a D. But it started something. It got him going.

Yep. That works. Always has.

But it works on anyone and everyone.

So what is the benefit of being a monster?

May 27, 2020

I mostly agree with Bull.

But two parts to my thinking:

Ratings:

I don't really care about the number. You're right - the monster will still gain pop.

Unless it drops one of my most bankable stars to angles under 65 [i.e. a hot storyline].

If my star is prevented from being in hot storylines because he has a menacing entourage then bye bye entourage.

Squash matches / managers:

These get anyone over. Doesn't matter if they're a 7 foot monster or a 5 foot wimp.

So you can get anyone over by feeding them victories. But the whole point of monsters [in TEW and RL] is that it's a shortcut. Being big and scary means it's just so, so much easier to get over fast. Otherwise promotoers just wouldn't bother with big guys with questionable talent.

And that's where I am now.

I love big scary guys. But if they offer me no benefit over another prospect then why bother?

Adam clearly thinks monsters should be a viable shortcut because the database is full of them.

But they don't seem to offer a viable upgrade.

In simple terms - it's no easier for me to get Blackheart over than it is Evan Alpass. Which doesn't seem right to me.

May 27, 2020

If you've got established managers then maybe. I'll certainly experiment a bit more.

But you'll still have the problem of 25% menace, 75% pop right?

For example in 21CW:

Jon Faust [mid 70s pop, 70ish entertainment, good momentum, great gimmick] cutting promos. His angles rate 70ish in a vaccum.

His lackeys are:

Bedlam [menace 80, SQ 51, pop 66]

Grave Digger [menace 95, SQ 85, pop 39]

Backheart [menace 90, SQ 68, pop 29]

If those guys are rated on menace [or anything] Faust's promos drop to 60ish.

So I'm better off having 3 guys with a great look being unrated than having them rated on menace.

Menace is useful for guys who are already over - but it doesn't help them get over.

Which in my mind is basically the point of menace in the first place.

This can't be right can it?

May 27, 2020

Giving serious thought to bringing in Chris Caulfield for a mini run...

May 27, 2020

I thought this warranted a thread of it's own as it's such a huge part of the game [and the wrestling biz].

I'm fully in favour of how angles were fixed in this version of the game. Not being able to have huge winz for someone standing around for 10 minutes looking scary/famous clearly makes sense.

But the downside is that it's much harder to build monsters right?

Big, scary, tough looking guys [who may or may not be able to wrestle or talk] have always been a shortcut to heat and that's not going to change. So What are the best ways to simulate that mechanically now?

I've run into a few obstacles so far so I wondered if anyone could help build on this.

1. The new way menace angles are calculated [menace 25%, pop 75%] means that menace is always a 2nd best to overness. A menacing unknown is just not going to give you huge ratings.

I'm torn on this. I sort of think there's value to "Woah! I've no clue who this guy is but hes 7 feet tall, with glowing red eyes and he's towering over the champ. How's hr going to fight that?"

2. It seems to me so far that unknown monsters tank angles. Which is a problem. Because surely being scary in angles is the way they get the pop in the first place to not stink up angles?

"Evil McEvilface is promising to bring in a new age of fear? It would be scary - but I've never seen that 7 foot guy in a black robe standing behind him. So meh."

3. This is a negative chicken/egg isn't it?

Menacing unknown will be bad in angles until he's over. But he can't get over because his angles are bad.

The way to get round that is to have him win squash matches until he is over - but that's true for everyone. So how does his menace help?

I'm just struggling a bit here. It feels like the oldest, most popular trick in the booking game has suddenly become really hard to pull off.

I'd love to hear how others have approached it - and turned monsters with no pop into real assets.

May 26, 2020

The SWF AI in my game just formed a team of:

Remo

Primus Allen

Big Smack Scott

Kurt Laramee

OK so they're called The Knights which is sort of lame. But what a great stable.

May 26, 2020

Also - I figured out a flaw in the PPV schedule.

At the moment the Cornell Cup [a tag team tournament] is in April.

With Partners in Crime [AI instruction is all tag matches] in May.

One of them needs to move surely?

I'll probably move PiC back to July and bring London Calling forward. I don't want to move PiC further back because you've also got Dangerous Alliances [all 3 vs 3 matches] in September.

So it'll be:

Cornell Cup - tag - April

London Calling - May

War Drums - June

Partners in Crime - tag - July

We Will Rock You - Aug

Dangerous Alliances - trios - Sept

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Posts posted by Boltinho