John Lions

Last thing I will say on this. I'm not looking to have a conversation about how much you do or don't enjoy Ospreay. All I did was say that you're lazy criticism of Ospreay being a flippy spot monkey is just wrong if you actually watch any of his matches. You are repeating a talking point from wrestling media from half a decade ago. People can be critical, but if you are going to be critical, at least base in in reality! Your last couple points are actual thoughtful criticism of Ospreay, so props for that I guess. When I see someone commenting that Ospreay is just a flippy wrestler in an AEW thread in 2024, my first thought is that you aren't even actually watching the product - so why have a discussion with you?

What makes him a "flippy CAW"? I'm not here to make you like Will Ospreay or feel compelled to him as a character. I'm pointing out that you think he's a 1-note flippy wrestler when if you watch ANY of his matches in AEW (or any for the past couple years through NJPW and elsewhere), that it doesn't really describe him as a wrestler. You can like or dislike him, but you at least have to have your criticism based in fact.

I don't know how you can watch Will Ospreay in 2024 and call him a "flippy CAW". You can like or dislike his promos, sure, but he's far from just a flippy spot guy.

I think it really hurts that all of the male singles titles are, in TEW terms "floating" and are all held by people who are all in that protected group of "top guys" (Roddy is the only one you could argue against that, but I don't think he's champion in a week). AEW presents itself more sports like than WWE and the storylines tend to revolve around titles rather than vice versa. When the champions are Swerve Strickland (last time being pinned was by Moxley in the C2), Adam Copeland (only has been pinned in singles matches by Christian and always dirty), Kazuchika Okada (only been pinned in AEW by Danielson at FD2), and Roderick Strong (I believe he's only lost in singles matches to Samoa Joe?). With title contenders that have good odds of new champs being Malakai who's last singles loss was to Cody Rhodes and Ospreay who has yet to lose... What the hell is there to fight for as a midcarder? The downside to guys like Orange Cassidy and Christian elevating their titles made it so there's no "midcard" titles. I would like to see the International title get merged with the World title at some point (the Continental title does the same thing but with rules + prestige attached to the C2) and the TNT title to move down the card. I'm worried the same thing will happen on the women's side with Mercedes getting involved in the TBS title scene, but I'm not going to complain about something that hasn't happened yet until I see how it all shakes out.

I've been pretty cold on Swerve lately for similar reasons, but he did exactly that on Collision a couple of weeks ago. It was against the former Embassy that betrayed him, and not the faction he is feuding with... But it was a step in the right direction IMO. I'll withhold judging his title run until I see the conclusion of his first PPV feud at least. He's been involved in two related but different stories post Dynasty (the former Mogul Embassy and Christian's Patriarchy) and I really hope we see the Swerve that took out all 3 of his former goons going forward and not the Swerve who still gets rattled by fans cheering him during his promos and has been laying on his back getting torn apart by Christian on the mic.

It's so disingenuous to act like every single person who criticizes AEW is invalidated. There's plenty of valid criticism about AEW that can be made, and that people DO make, in this thread. I also think that AEW fans are more defensive than any other wrestling fan. Unlike pretty much every major promotion, many of the AEW fans have been fans for the ENTIRE lifespan of the company. Given the niche that AEW appeals to, it's also not surprising that the very vocal and online AEW fans watch and keep up with everything going on from what's on screen to the stuff happening backstage. There is very clearly a negative-AEW spin through social media, whether they have valid criticism or not. What ends up happening is you get people repeating talking points that get stated over and over, many that are not true, and so when that stuff gets brought up AEW fans can get very defensive. Why wouldn't they get defensive, when you see actual human beings repeating talking points that you've seen on social media that people are spreading around that you KNOW is just complete -------? At the end of the day, this is an AEW discussion thread. I would rather have a discussion with people who actually watch the product over what AEW could do better on, than people who don't watch the product repeating talking points they hear from other places. Since we're on the topic of what we think AEW can do better, this is my personal takes on it: Collision, ticket sales, etc - Personally I don't think AEW is big enough to support two live TV shows/week. Rampage and Collision both showed that there is a core AEW audience that will tune into everything. I don't think this translates to live shows, and, anecdotally, you can see the ticket sales suffering. I am not a business expert nor do I have a doctorate in Nielson ratings, so I don't really have an alternative. I'm sure Collision makes more money than no Collision, but I've felt a bit of burnout as a viewer, and AEW is running out of new markets when you run 2x the TV shows and 2x the PPVs. The Collision in Vancouver was incredible, for example, because it was a relatively fresh market. I think the "Summer Series" in Texas is a step in the right direction for that, and I'm curious to see what the reception is. I think it's a pretty commonly spoken issue that AEW's local marketing is pretty bad, and I can agree from the local shows that have been in my areas. Pivoting storylines - AEW is typically pretty good about taking a hot hand and running with it, but pivoting from storylines has always been a weak point to me from watching. The Devil storyline had a ton of potential, but injuries played a significant factor and it limped across the finish line regardless. Going back further, the HoB/Death Triangle feud which led to Julia Hart joining the trio went on for SO SO long because of Fenix's injury, and both groups just kind of floated along for months and Julia moped around with an eyepatch for way too long. Jericho has had very rightful criticism over his last year of stories, but 3 different instances since All In last year has he had a story he was involved in get derailed, yet nothing changed about his presence on screen (Sammy concussion after All In, Omega diverticulitis, Sammy suspension after the Hardy match). The Outcasts vs Originals storyline suffered a similar fate, which sucks because that felt like the first "big" storyline the women's division has ever had. Injuries are an eventuality in wrestling, whether it's AEW or WWE or wherever, and I think AEW can definitely improve on how it handles curveballs. Women's division - First I'll say there has been a very marked improvement in the women's division year on year. This is the first time we've had a storyline between two women unrelated to any title (Rosa and Deonna) in what seems like since Deeb and Shida tore the house down years ago. I started watching ROH recently, and the biggest take away from that show is how much more time the women get (# of matches, time in matches, quality of matches). AEW having this stupid 1 women's match/show restriction is shit. The male side has way more drawing potential, so I get it from a business perspective, but the women can never get a bigger share of the pie if they aren't given the time and investment. This year has been a good start, but I'd like to see it reflected in the ring. I think this is my biggest one, and it's been even more apparent recently - There is no "midcard", and TV booking feels too formulaic. This has been way more apparent since the expansion of the PPV schedule, as before you would see more meaningful feuds and matches beginning and ending on TV when PPVs were often months apart. I used to watch Dark a ton back in the day, where I would see all the guys who have a TV match that week beat a local competitor or someone lower on the card than them. That tradition has carried over into Rampage and Collision. AEW has this ultra massive crop of guys they want to push and protect, which means they almost never face off against each other. Instead, they beat up the Brian Cages and Jay Lethals, who in turn get a tune up match against a local competitor or a ROH stalwart to make them feel like a threat, even though everyone watching knows they aren't. Every singles title is held by a "top guy", and there isn't really anything for a Brian Cage/Jay Lethal level guy to really fight over. Brian Cage beats Willie Mack, and Swerve beats Brian Cage (this is an example, I know this isn't exactly how it played out). The midcard guys should be fighting each other and getting actual meaningful wins, so there is at least SOME momentum for when they face off against a top guy on a TV show. It's never going to be an easy solution - on paper, Swerve vs Brian Cage in an eliminator match might be more appealing to a fan than Brian Cage having a back and forth match with Jay Lethal, but putting in the time to invest in the midcard will make that Swerve vs Brian Cage match that much better and more interesting. Like I said, this feels like it's become more of an issue with Collision + the shorter PPV schedule, but I would like to see more meaningful midcard matches and feuds. It's honestly why I've enjoyed Rampage more than Collision most of the time, because there are usually some meaningful midcard matches or storylines mixed in to the show. I do not think people disappearing from TV is an AEW issue. If you look at all the times historically when guys who were involved in storylines or pushes disappear for weeks, it's typically due to an undisclosed injury, personal issue, or a professional issue between the worker and AEW. I also think dream matches and international wrestlers from all across the wrestling world fighting in AEW is a big appeal to AEW's core audience, and isn't a deterrent to casual fans - why would seeing a cool new wrestler as a wrestling fan be a bad thing?

It's wild to me that less than 24 hours after a successful AEW PPV we get posts like this. It's wild to me how under the microscope AEW is, and how many people jump in to like or join in on any negative criticism whether it's true or not. I'd wager a lot of people who love liking comments or posting do so in response to videos they see on social media or headlines they read rather than actually watching the show. Let's touch on your main points as to why AEW Is in such a worse place now than it was before: "no purpose behind why people are fighting other than just the spirit of competition" Let's run through the AEW Dynasty card. shall we? Matt Sydal vs. Trent Beretta No story for this match other than a brief exchange the Dynamite before, but it was used to build to the OC/Trent storyline that started around a month ago. Katsuyori Shibata & Orange Cassidy vs. Shane Taylor Promotions (Lee Moriarty & Shane Taylor) Short TV story over a couple of weeks between Shibata and the STP guys. (C) Billy Gunn & The Acclaimed (Anthony Bowens & Max Caster) vs. (C) Bullet Club Gold (Austin Gunn, Colten Gunn & Jay White)-AEW World Trios / ROH World Six Man Tag Team Championship Match Story has been going since after World's End (close to 5 months), and has a ton of history from another year long storyline involving Acclaimed and the Ass Boys from over 2 years ago. PPV Card: (C) Hook vs. Chris Jericho-FTW Championship Match Story has been moving every week since Revolution, more than just a spirit of competition/I want a title feud. (C) Roderick Strong vs. Kyle O'Reilly-AEW International Championship Match Story has been moving every week since Revolution, more than just a spirit of competition/I want a title feud. (C) Kazuchika Okada vs. PAC-AEW Continental Championship Match Story has been closer to what you describe - PAC wants the belt and so he got into it with Okada and the Elite (who he has years of history with), and they build to this match through matches and fights through the past month. (C) Toni Storm with Luther & Mariah May vs. Thunder Rosa-AEW Women's World Championship Match Story has been moving since Revolution, with a ton of history between the two related to the end of Rosa's reign. Adam Copeland, Eddie Kingston & Mark Briscoe vs. House Of Black (Brody King, Buddy Matthews & Malakai Black)-Six Man Tag Team Match Mark Briscoe has been feuding with the HOB since the beginning of the year (close to 4 months now). Eddie pulled in due to friendship w/Mark and Copeland pulled in due to being targetted by HOB. The Young Bucks (Matthew Jackson & Nicholas Jackson) vs. FTR (Cash Wheeler & Dax Harwood)-Vacant AEW World Tag Team Championship Tournament Final Ladder Match Don't think this needs any clarification (C) Julia Hart vs. Willow Nightingale with Stokely Hathaway-AEW TBS Championship House Rules Match Julia has been feuding with Willow/Stat since BEFORE she won the title which is over 6 months ago - I think that would qualify as long term storytelling? Bryan Danielson vs. Will Ospreay A match where people are fighting for the spirit of competition! A match that was announced over a month in advance and in the recent week+ of Dynamite has clearly turned into something beyond just a friendly match. Considering the post-match angle and the heating up of DCF/BCC this is just the start of a feud anyway. And if any match gets a pass for "not having enough storyline", this is one that gets a pass. (C) Samoa Joe vs. Swerve Strickland with Prince Nana-AEW World Championship Match Swerve, who I guess I need to remind you is just coming off an inconclusive stop to his 8 month long term storytelling feud with Hangman Adam Page has been focused on winning the World title since after World's End (so over 4 months), and this was the culmination of it. A 12 match PPV card where every major match (-1 if you don't count Ospreay/Danielson) has had a story beyond "I want to be the best" or "I want to win your title". Care to compare to any other modern wrestling promotion's PPV and the depth/amount of storylines associated with their matches? So I reiterate, what exactly is your point? If you said that "I don't like the storylines AEW has done recently, they have not been good or enjoyable to me" - that's fine! But saying that AEW doesn't have storylines other than spirit of competition is just blatantly false if you actually watch the show. When you post blatantly false takes like this, especially when you do so in a way that makes it seem like you aren't being malicious, just fires up the trolls who don't actually watch the show either and think what you are saying is true! "their inability to tell stories - and that stems from a number of things - primarily the wrestlers getting injured due to doing too much physically on a TV show." I'm not even going to step into AEW's "inability to tell stories" since that's patently not true, so let's tackle the wrestlers getting injured due to doing too much physically on a TV show. AEW MAJOR INJURIES TO TOP STARS: Kenny Omega - Diverticulitis, unrelated to AEW in-ring style. His injury DID derail the current storyline he was in Adam Cole - Ankle, freak accident unrelated to AEW in-ring style. His injury hurt the storyline's payoff but AEW went forward with the long term storyline they had planned (for better or worse) Jamie Hayter - wear and tear/shoulder, nothing concrete as to why or how she got injured. You could say it was because she was "doing too much physically on TV" I guess? Britt Baker - wear and tear/back, nothing concrete as to why or how she got injured either. Another you could probably chalk up to just wear from wrestling. That's the 4 top stars in the men and women's division who are currently injured, and at least for the men it has nothing to do with a too intense TV match style. I'm not going to run down every single injury that's ever occurred in AEW, but if you think it will prove your point you can feel free. I hate that I keep getting baited into responding to posts like this, but I will reiterate this before people think I'm just jumping in to "defend AEW" like some billionaire stan. I enjoy AEW and AEW has it's faults. BUT there is a very vocal minority across all wrestling social media which just blatantly spread around bad-faith takes and nonsense, and people who are critical of AEW latch on without really knowing whether the bad-faith comment was even the truth! PSA: It is OK to not like a wrestling promotion, or product, or match, even if other people like it! But: The fact you did not like a match does not mean it was objectively bad. The fact that you do not like a storyline does not mean it didn't happen. The fact that you don't like a wrestling promotion does not mean it is dying or going out of business.

Man, Jack Perry's career is certainly over after that damning footage of him not fighting back after a coworker took a cheap shot at him and attacked him! EDIT: Nevermind, just saw the clips posted above. I should have posted this take a couple days ago!

The Foundation (Jon Michael Sharp & Martin Heath) vs XS & Aurelian Bradley XS/Aurelian seem to have slotted into the role that State of Mind originally had, which is a good place for them since they have chemistry together and are both young enough to develop on their backs for a bit. Christopher Lister vs Lone Wolf AWOOOOOOOO The Youth Bandits (Cannonball Logan & Ian Vincible) vs State Of Mind (Brilliant White & Ultra Violence) I'm behind the State of Mind push 'The Prodigy' Darin Flynn w/ Mark Moore vs Evan Alpass w/ Marbella I believe this is a face vs face match, and Darin stands above Evan on the card from what I've seen so far

Grace of Fire (Welsh Dragon & Bali Daljit) vs XS & Aurelian Bradley ??? vs Damian Dastardly The Youth Bandits (Ian Vincible & Cannonball Logan) vs High Society (Dylan Drama & Joey Beauchamp) Rohan Kirchner vs Bret Heartbreak NWF Cruiserweight Championship: Leighton Buzzard (C) vs JK Lee

Cruiserweight World Cup Final: Welsh Dragon vs Edison Silva w/ Mo Adebola I don't think Welsh Dragon is ready to beat a guy like Silva yet. NWF British Tag Team Titles: Future X vs The Northern Lights (C) w/ Frank Finkleton Good first defense for the champs after they won them in a triple threat NWF Cruiserweight Championship: Leighton Buzzard vs JK Lee (C) I could see this going either way, but I think Leighton deserves it after the work he's put in the last couple months Jase Cole w/ Christopher Lister vs Lone Wolf I don't see Lone Wolf losing a singles match to a tag specialist after all the video build up for him If Nate Manchester loses he leaves NWF: Nate Manchester w/ Leo Price vs 'Big Mac' Nathan McKenzie Poor Big Mac eating another L. If Nate himself wasn't the guy who introduced the stop, I could see him losing and fighting with Frank/Legal to get reinstated NWF British Heavyweight Championship: (C) 'The Springbok' Landon Mallory vs 'The Celtic Hammer' Stuart Wilson I'd love to see Stuart win at some point but I don't think it's now Bonus 1: How many titles will change hands at the event? (maximum of 3): 1 Bonus 2: What will the overall rating of the show be? (two points for spot on, 1 point for 2 either side): 68

You said "to see a top wrestler like Bryan Danielson used like this must be a criminal act. Stuck for months fighting outlaw mudshow matches alongside Moxley". He hasn't been wrestling "outlaw mudshow matches alongside Moxley" as Dalton pointed out. I took a snip of Danielson's last 6 months but I could do the same for his entire AEW run. I'll say it again - if how he's been used in AEW is criminally bad, how would you do it differently? His last 6 months in particular have been potentially one of the best runs of his career, at least in my opinion and many others. You can just say "I don't like Eddie Kingston and Jon Moxley" without ridiculous hyperbole that pretty much every single person on the forums would call you out on...

Cruiserweight World Cup Semi Final: Welsh Dragon vs Damian Dastardly ??? vs Stuart Wilson Darin Flynn vs Akihiro Hisato The Youth Bandits (Ian Vincible & Cannonball Logan) vs Lee & O'Hearne Cruiserweight World Cup Semi Final: Bali Daljit vs Edison Silva w/ Mo Adebola Edison vs Welsh Dragon seems the most logical (re)match for the World Cup

Danielson's last 6 months or so, with an Ospreay singles match on the horizon. If this is criminal usage of a hall of fame talent then I would love to hear how he could be booked better!