Contracts?

[Capelli King]

This is one i want to see some improvements on. MMA is different to wrestling, so the contracts should be different somewhat to TEW in certain points. Allot has been mentioned about, contracts connected to amount of fights. i.e a 4 or 5 match contract. I believe that there should still be the option for PPV contracts and Exclusive PPV. Also the writen contracts should remain (in my opinion) irrelevant if they exist in real MMA or not. Merchandising and generally everything included in TEW. Some additions i would like to see. 1) A win\loss ration. For example some guys will still be paid well dispite a loss and visa versa. 2) Minimum fights per season or year. 3) Minimum "Main event" fights in PPV 4) More versatility and control in the contract leangth. In TEW it was very hard to get a guy to sign more than 2 years, irrelevant how big your promotion was and how much you were willing to pay 5) Maybe a block on him fighting for certain competitors. 6) A 1st option to resigning in negotiation. 7) Maybe an option of "contract buyout". Some other company can either "loan him" for a fight or simply buy out his contract at a cost. 8) Automatic renewal option if he brings a certain result. In other words if he wins all 3 of his planned 3 match contract he gets an automatic renewal of 3 more fights. 9) Break contract option if he breaks rules (doping ect) or an injury buyout. In other words if in injury you would be allowed to forfeit the contract either for free or at a cost if agreed upon during the signing. 10) Wage raise in case of renewal or 20-30%(example) 11) Bonus for titles 12) Bonuses for sell outs or successful marketion 13) Making bids before hand on near ending contracts to sway a guy on your side 14) Having a block on the above until you have negotiated first 15) And the list is endless!!!!! I could go on and on. contracts are much more complex and interesting than what was included in TEW. I understand that most people maybe are less interested in this and more interested in the action. I can tell you that in the real world of business (and believe me MMA is A BUSINESS), all is won and lossed in the contract agreements. Do you close you star for another 3 matches at a 50% cost? Do you renew your 40 year old legend to another long contract without adding the injury clause? Do you risk on guaranteeing your new protege a title match at the rist of not filling the stadium? Do you buyout your competors main star on a huge deal or wait for 2 years for his contract to run free? These are just a few huge decisions owners of a promotion will have. MMA is not simply about booking 2 guys to prove who is the best By the way i just gave a few ideas above. Not all are great(i know), just to spice up some thoughts

[ACCBiggz]

So far, the UFC contracts are pretty basic. As of now with their spot at the top they give something around 3,000 to show, same amount to win for new guys coming in. So if they win they get 6,000 minus fees, but I really don't think the fees should play a part. Randy Couture's and most other contracts are X fights or x years. Whichever comes first. Randy's is a 4 fight, 2 year deal. [QUOTE]1) A win\loss ration. For example some guys will still be paid well dispite a loss and visa versa.[/QUOTE] Depends on how well known the fighter is and what his spot in the company is. [QUOTE]2) Minimum fights per season or year.[/QUOTE] Disagree with this one, just because if an injury or something happens they may not be able to. If you sign a guy to a 3 fight deal, isn't that the minimum/maximum for the deal? I would think so. [QUOTE]3) Minimum "Main event" fights in PPV[/QUOTE] Elaborate some on this one, not sure i understand. [QUOTE]4) More versatility and control in the contract leangth. In TEW it was very hard to get a guy to sign more than 2 years, irrelevant how big your promotion was and how much you were willing to pay[/QUOTE] Disagree. If I am an upset trying to sign any MMA fighter, they are not signing a 2, 3, 4 fight deal. If I am the UFC most fighters aren't going to sign contracts over 2-3 years. Reasons being various, if they sign for less and start to win they want to renegotiate. [QUOTE]5) Maybe a block on him fighting for certain competitors.[/QUOTE] This is where written contracts like the UFC come in. [QUOTE]6) A 1st option to resigning in negotiation.[/QUOTE] If you are in negotiations why do you need a first option? If you are negotiating then that seems that you are already working on a new deal for him, unless i misunderstand this. [QUOTE]7) Maybe an option of "contract buyout". Some other company can either "loan him" for a fight or simply buy out his contract at a cost.[/QUOTE] The buyout could work both ways. The UFC was going to buy Wanderlei's after PRIDE 33 until he lost, and it could work the other way if you dislike a fighter and want him out of the company, buy his contract out and give him the boot. [QUOTE]8) Automatic renewal option if he brings a certain result. In other words if he wins all 3 of his planned 3 match contract he gets an automatic renewal of 3 more fights.[/QUOTE] This is kind of like the TUF contracts. If they win a belt it gets extended by a year, however not sure how this would work in the game, because it would have to be stated in the origanal contract talks. [QUOTE]9) Break contract option if he breaks rules (doping ect) or an injury buyout. In other words if in injury you would be allowed to forfeit the contract either for free or at a cost if agreed upon during the signing.[/QUOTE] I think the first part is good, the second part could be included as well but if you cut a fighter for being injured your PR Rating or something of the like should be effected because that's just wrong imo. [QUOTE]10) Wage raise in case of renewal or 20-30%(example) 11) Bonus for titles 12) Bonuses for sell outs or successful marketion[/QUOTE] If you are renewing someones contract it'll just enter like another negotiation where the agent will tell you want he wants. Shouldn't be a flat rate of bumping it, because it makes it sound too one sided to the promotion. As for the bonuses, not a bad idea, but not sure for "sell-outs" as that is what all main event matches are supposed to do. But that idea could be expanded on, just like getting fined for various things. Lutter got fined 10% for missing weight (5 to NSAC, 5 to Anderson Silva). Could also fine them for something they said in the media, or any number of things depending on the situation. [QUOTE]13) Making bids before hand on near ending contracts to sway a guy on your side 14) Having a block on the above until you have negotiated first[/QUOTE] This is something that has been in the EW games since EWR. I don't know how the "block" would work as no fighter in his right mind would do that, because getting an offer from elsewhere may move his price up.

[Capelli King]

Rely to the above message [QUOTE=ACCBiggz;218747]Disagree with this one, just because if an injury or something happens they may not be able to. If you sign a guy to a 3 fight deal, isn't that the minimum/maximum for the deal? I would think so. Reply-I am talkng about written contracts. For example you signed a guy on a 2 year contract. And assuming he does not get injured. He should get no less than for example 2 fights in that year. Some owners could try to "push" a guy by giving him plenty of opportunities. This way a fighter is guaranteed at least a certain amount of opportunities in a year. Elaborate some on this one, not sure i understand. Reply-to headline a certain amount of shows Disagree. If I am an upset trying to sign any MMA fighter, they are not signing a 2, 3, 4 fight deal. If I am the UFC most fighters aren't going to sign contracts over 2-3 years. Reasons being various, if they sign for less and start to win they want to renegotiate. Reply-Could be, but let say you have a new MMA fighter with limited experience. Why would he let down a 5 year deal with a huge payout?! In TEW it did not matter how much you offered and to who, you could not get him to sign a 3, 4, 5 year deal, simply because the game was programed that way. If you are in negotiations why do you need a first option? If you are negotiating then that seems that you are already working on a new deal for him, unless i misunderstand this. Reply-In football most contract start negotiation months (6 months to be precise) before a contract is finished. Usually he is allowed to negotiate with all interested parties. If however his team has a "1st option" he must 1st negotiate with his team, if he rejects other parties come in. Of corse you can not add such an option in WMMA, just a suggestion. The buyout could work both ways. The UFC was going to buy Wanderlei's after PRIDE 33 until he lost, and it could work the other way if you dislike a fighter and want him out of the company, buy his contract out and give him the boot. Reply-Yep can work both ways. This is kind of like the TUF contracts. If they win a belt it gets extended by a year, however not sure how this would work in the game, because it would have to be stated in the origanal contract talks. Reply-Exactly what i had in mind, also did not think of how it can work If you are renewing someones contract it'll just enter like another negotiation where the agent will tell you want he wants. Shouldn't be a flat rate of bumping it, because it makes it sound too one sided to the promotion. Reply-I like the agent idea there, maybe agents could have characters[/QUOTE] Sorry the reply and quote is all in 1!

[ACCBiggz]

[QUOTE=Capelli King;218830]Reply-I am talkng about written contracts. For example you signed a guy on a 2 year contract. And assuming he does not get injured. He should get no less than for example 2 fights in that year. Some owners could try to "push" a guy by giving him plenty of opportunities. This way a fighter is guaranteed at least a certain amount of opportunities in a year.[/QUOTE] The contract part is different in MMA. To see how contracts work in MMA you do need to look at the UFC and PRIDE, to get how MMA does their contracts. These contracts are written. You sign a three fight deal, you will get three fights, unless of course there is a buyout option that you may want to take. It isn't as simple as saying, "This is a three year deal", there needs to be a fight number in there because that is just how MMA works at this time in terms of contracts. [QUOTE]Reply-to headline a certain amount of shows[/QUOTE] Then I disagree with that. Because the promoter will try to set up matches, telling someone that they will headline 3 cards in a year doesn't make sense because you never know what will happen. Heath Herring is someone to look at in real life, he was brought in heavily promoted by the UFC and was possibly going to fight Sylvia, Couture, or Cro Cop down the line. He laid an egg and now he is on the undercard of a card. Maybe just have a headlining bonus feature to those that are the headliners they get a certain % bonus. [QUOTE]Reply-Could be, but let say you have a new MMA fighter with limited experience. Why would he let down a 5 year deal with a huge payout?! In TEW it did not matter how much you offered and to who, you could not get him to sign a 3, 4, 5 year deal, simply because the game was programed that way.[/QUOTE] Let's use a TUF guy for example, because when... let's say Josh Koscheck, started on TUF he was just a wrestler. He wasn't training MMA long at all and is a young guy, so he is basically an upstart you are talking about. He signed the origanal TUF contract after the first season which I think is a 3 year type deal, not entirely sure so take that with a grain of salt, but its similar. If you look at how quickly he made strides and strung together good victories of course he will want to negotiate quickly, and most fighters think in their own minds they'll come in and win right away. Joe and Dan Louzon are also examples. Joe was brought in like O'Brien for Herring and Sanchez for Cro Cop... but he KO'd Jens Pulver. Dan is 18 and was brought in. UFC didn't sign anyone long term because they don't know how they'll turn out, and they didn't sign long term because if they win 2-3 fights in a row in their current contracts they'll get to negotiate a higher price. Now can someone sign a long deal like 5 years? Maybe, but it'd be more likly that it would be the Chuck Liddell's, Couture's, etc. ones that have been with the UFC for awhile, are making the big dollars, and have a great relationship with Dana White and the front office. [QUOTE]Reply-In football most contract start negotiation months (6 months to be precise) before a contract is finished. Usually he is allowed to negotiate with all interested parties. If however his team has a "1st option" he must 1st negotiate with his team, if he rejects other parties come in. Of corse you can not add such an option in WMMA, just a suggestion.[/QUOTE] The player does not have to negotiate with that team regardless of the 1st option though, and in this example the governing bodies and tampering are reasons that he can't negotiate contracts elsewhere, but MMA is different. UFC, PRIDE, Strikeforce, whatever are not under one league banner (PRIDE/UFC has yet to determine how they'll handle contracts now that they are under the Fertitta's). Brandon Vera is the example I'll use here, he has one fight left and started to negotiate with the UFC and Elite XC to fight out where he was going after that one fight. The structure of the sport is different from others so it would be hard to have a "first option" from a fighters perspective.

[Capelli King]

[QUOTE=ACCBiggz;218894]Dan is 18 and was brought in. UFC didn't sign anyone long term because they don't know how they'll turn out, and they didn't sign long term because if they win 2-3 fights in a row in their current contracts they'll get to negotiate a higher price. Now can someone sign a long deal like 5 years? Maybe, but it'd be more likly that it would be the Chuck Liddell's, Couture's, etc. ones that have been with the UFC for awhile, are making the big dollars, and have a great relationship with Dana White and the front office.[/QUOTE] My point is that fighters should act more "humanly". If i am crazy enough to pay an virtual unknown a huge amount of money on a 15 fight contract or a 5year contract and he turns out to be a bum and i was stupid enough to not include a "buyout clause" that is my problem! In TEW you could pay a guy 100,000 a month and he still won't sign a 5 year contract!!! When i came up with the suggestion list here i intended it to be so. Most my ideas are based upon a "general" contracting system which exists in sports. Not all are used in MMA today, but it does not mean they won't do so as the sport grows and evolves. A few years ago for example promotions would never even dream on giving 5 year contracts as they did not even know if there will be a sport in 5 years! I think now it is safe to say you will see more such deals.

[ACCBiggz]

With this being a high-risk sport you may see long term deals, but they will be for the big fighters. I understand you are saying you want to, but most fighters would not a sign such a long term deal with you. A few wins in big promotions sends you up the ladder and makes you tons more, now if you were paying him like a Main Eventer, maybe, but that should have an effect on your other contracts as well. I'm sure if you pay Rookie X 400,000 a fight, someone like Chuck Liddell will begin asking for a million or more. I just don't think that it fits well into the MMA Contract Structure.

[Capelli King]

[QUOTE=ACCBiggz;219022]now if you were paying him like a Main Eventer, maybe, but that should have an effect on your other contracts as well. I'm sure if you pay Rookie X 400,000 a fight, someone like Chuck Liddell will begin asking for a million or more.[/QUOTE] That is my point. That if i would be ready to pay more money for a guy to sign a longer deal (such as Rookie X 400,000 a fight), then fine. Sure in real life Chuck Liddell would then of corse ask for more, but in TEW it did not matter what you were paying "the rest". So i could pay a rookie 50,000$ a month, that would not make my Main Eventer ask for more money. Now you brought that subject up. One other feature could be "highest paid fighter clause". In other words, if you pay Chuck 10,000$ per match (this is just an example) and decide to pay someone 20,000$. His contract would be automatically updated to an equal 20,000$ per match. Another common feature in other sports, maybe it does not work like that in MMA i do not know. Frankly speaking we all do not know exactly how contracts are drawn up in MMA. We just have a general idea, so due to that reason, i would like to see as many options as possible. Do not forget, that with the buying of Pride and with the general growth which is expected in the sport, we can expect some changes in the contracting system.

[ACCBiggz]

I'll throw this out there for just random info, as it shouldn't effect the game in anyway because this is just from a fighters point of view... Gabe Ruediger got the same deal as most new UFC fighters, 3k to fight, 3k to win. He lost to Melvin Gulliard just as reference, but how does that 3,000 go? Managers recieve anywhere from 10-20% and trainers usually get 10%. Training camps can be expensive, but he did his for free instead of paying the potential 500 a week and the lodging for everyone. He paid for the food while he was up there training for 10 days, ran him 500 bucks. I think he paid for everyones food and such that trained with him. Uncle Sam also eats the taxes as a 1099. As most knowledgable fans know that the fighters make most their money from sponsers... here is the breakdown of Gabe's UFC Payday. 500 for food. 500 for medicals. 100 for cornerman licensing. 300 for trainers fee. 300 for managers fee. 1,200 for taxes. Leaves a grand total of 100 for take home. Source: Real Fighter Magazine

[Capelli King]

To say the truth, i thought fighters made much more in fees. 3K is peanuts in comparisson to most big sports (per show). Even an average premier division player in Cyprus makes around 100K per year (excluding bonuses and sponsors).

[SirFozzie]

Most fighters make their money on endorsements (wear a patch on their trunks, etcetera)

[Capelli King]

Does any one have an idea what the top MMA fighters would make in a year? (including the endorsements, sponsorships and bonuses)

[ACCBiggz]

I think Chuck/Tito/Randy/CroCop are the highest paid in UFC around the 200,000 a fight mark (400,000 to win). Then of course you take out taxes and such, but much higher than the 3k (6k for a win) for starters. I think.

[Cro_Cop45]

Cro Cop makes 350 a fight from UFC. Randy is about 250 these days. Chuck makes the same, but has no win bonus, which probably means he gets a cut off the PPV (given how he is one of if not the biggest draw in the company. That isn't including of course sponsorships, PPV buyrate bonuses, other bonus things (like sub/KO of the night) and the such.

[ACCBiggz]

I knew Cro Cop was higher, didn't know how much, but for general purposes put that in there with the others. I think they all get certain %'s of the PPV like you said, but I'm sure it varies with each fighter and their salary.

[Capelli King]

Off the subject. One guy i would like to see in UFC is Semmy Schilts. I saw a couple of his older fights in UFC (through UFC on demand), i thought he did well then. he has totaly dominated K-1 the last few years and due to his size, i think he is the best striker in the game today (or at leat one of the best). If he improves on his takedown defense, i think he will be virtually unbeatable.

[TylerDrew]

[QUOTE=Capelli King;219550]Off the subject. One guy i would like to see in UFC is Semmy Schilts. I saw a couple of his older fights in UFC (through UFC on demand), i thought he did well then. he has totaly dominated K-1 the last few years and due to his size, i think he is the best striker in the game today (or at leat one of the best). If he improves on his takedown defense, i think he will be virtually unbeatable.[/QUOTE] I dunno, his MMA fight with Min Soo Kim in K-1 was ugly(Even though he won.). Also his last fight against a "name" opponenet ended with him being the the recieving end of one of the most BRUTAL displays of ground and pound in MMA history against Sergei Kharitonov.

[Romdawg88]

[QUOTE=ACCBiggz;219313]I think Chuck/Tito/Randy/CroCop are the highest paid in UFC around the 200,000 a fight mark (400,000 to win). Then of course you take out taxes and such, but much higher than the 3k (6k for a win) for starters. I think.[/QUOTE] Chuck and Tito were rumored to have made close to 3 million for their rematch as both get cuts of the PPV. I know that Randy gets a PPV cut and I would assume that Cro Cop would as well. MMA contracts are weird in that we don't really know how much these guys are taking home after everything is said and done. Heath Herring's reported payout for UFN 8 was 6,000 dollars but it turns out he made 60,000 which was more then anyone else on the card. Martin Kampmann ended up with 70,000 from UFC 68 due to bonuses he earned for his fight. About the long term contracts it depends on the fighters. Like Rich Franklin signed a 9 fight contract with a payout of before the Ken Shamrock fight for financial security. So his official payouts have been really low compared to fighters on a similar level through I'm sure the UFC is taking care of him by other means. Capelli King: Semmy's height is his biggest weakness in MMA and is what kills his takedown defense. At that height his height and center of gravity make it easier for someone to take him down plus he's making a ton of money in K-1 so I doubt that we'll see him back in the UFC. If there is any company in the fight world that can compete with the UFC in terms of money it's FEG, K-1's parent company.

[Capelli King]

[QUOTE=TylerDrew;219781]I dunno, his MMA fight with Min Soo Kim in K-1 was ugly(Even though he won.). Also his last fight against a "name" opponenet ended with him being the the recieving end of one of the most BRUTAL displays of ground and pound in MMA history against Sergei Kharitonov.[/QUOTE] I did not watch the above fights, it could very well be that he is not fitted for MMA. But i watched the last 2 K-1 world finals, plus i saw a handfull of his qualifying matches and 1 UFC match. I think he is probably quite lame in the floor. But his standup,striking and power can be quite awesome sometimes.

[Capelli King]

[QUOTE=Romdawg88;219814]Capelli King: Semmy's height is his biggest weakness in MMA and is what kills his takedown defense. At that height his height and center of gravity make it easier for someone to take him down plus he's making a ton of money in K-1 so I doubt that we'll see him back in the UFC. If there is any company in the fight world that can compete with the UFC in terms of money it's FEG, K-1's parent company.[/QUOTE] I agree on the height of Semmy. His height, which is his main advantage in K-1, is one of his weaknesses in MMA. I did not expect to see him in UFC due to his success in K-1 and due to his style not really fitting in. Now you tell me that K-1 is on par with UFC in money power, i do not think they will let go one one of their main star so easily. By the way, is there any other fans of K-1 out there?

[ACCBiggz]

[QUOTE=Romdawg88;219814]Chuck and Tito were rumored to have made close to 3 million for their rematch as both get cuts of the PPV. I know that Randy gets a PPV cut and I would assume that Cro Cop would as well.[/QUOTE] We were just discussing base salaries though, not PPV cuts and all the extra kickbacks they get.

[Capelli King]

Another thing i would like to see changed in the contract's is the "i can make more money elsewhere" of TEW. Those which played TEW know what i mean. I am talking about when you try to sign a guy working in another region but he won't sign because he is over in his region. Example-You own SWF, you are a global promotion, with unlimited finance. And you want to sign a free agent working out of the European region. For example lets say it's Sergei Kalashnov, which has B- overness there. He won't sign any type of contract, irrelevant with how much you give his even if there are no active promotions running in his region!!! So "i can make more money elsewhere" does not make sense anyway! The only way you could get around this was to go and "cheat" in the editor and change his overness in Europe "temporarily" sign him than move it back. I think it should be different, for example, if a guy in Europe would expect a contract of 10,000, if you are ready to match this, dispite being in a different region, then i think he should accept, especially if he is a free agent.

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=Capelli King;220027]Another thing i would like to see changed in the contract's is the "i can make more money elsewhere" of TEW. Those which played TEW know what i mean.[/QUOTE] This is an entirely different game to TEW. It is not being built on top of TEW, nor is it based on the same ideas. I understand that a lot of people are coming to this game via the TEW series, but suggestions and ideas really should not be of the form "i'd like to see X changed" - there's nothing [I]to[/I] change. Please bear this in mind.

[javier_83]

and what do you have inmind in this aspect of the game?