Imus in the spotlight?

[lovestruck420]

Do you really think that Imus deserves what Al sharpton and Jesse Jackson( I absolutely refuse to call them reverend, since christ taught to turn the other cheek to those who persecute against you) and be fired for the thoughtless comment he made. Calling a basketball team "Nappy headed ho's" in jest. It was obviously not meant as a racial comment. In my own opinion, I see it as just another way for Sharpton to make another big Payday, and I also believe that it is a complete outrage that the media trys to make us believe that what sharpton and Jackson believe are what all african americans believe. Please be civil in this topic. It is meant for an open and intellectual discussion, not a race riot or a flame war.

[AfRoMaN36]

This topic is pretty big right now and I have my own opinions on this subject. However, at the same time, I do not feel like getting too deeply involved in a disscussion like this because it will surely degenerate into a flame war and I may have my intelligence questioned and insulted. So without going too deep into I will just say Imus deserves everybit of his punishment. He wasnt trying to offend, but he shouldnt have said it. And Al Sharpton should stick his neck out of this.

[PeterHilton]

[QUOTE=lovestruck420;222850]Calling a basketball team "Nappy headed ho's" in jest. It was obviously not meant as a racial comment.[/QUOTE] It was said in jest. But it was DEFINITELY a racial comment. If you listen to the entire comment, he was trying to say that the girls from Rutgers were more thuggish looking, "rough girls..they got tattoos...nappy headed ho's," while the girls from Tennessee were lighter skinned and "cute." The conversation then went on to compare the game to "the jigaboos versus the wannabes," alluding to the Spike Lee movie School daze which was entirely about the relationship between light and darker skinned black people. He went on to say the team looked like the Washington Wizards more than a NCAA women's team. When you use the terms "nappy headed" and "jigaboos" there's no way in hell that's not a racial statement. I don't think Imus is racist. He was trying to be funny and crossed a line. What he said was stupid and offensive. I don't think he should've been fired. His punishment was fine. I definitely think there's a certain amount of irony in Sharpton and Jackson trying to stand up for black women given their history. And before anyone says it, yes, if a black comedian said it it would've been 100% acceptable. Sorry..that's just the nature of race relations in this country because of our history. Also interesting is the fact that so many pundits have used this story to bring up the whole "how come its ok for black rappers and comedians to use terms like n****r/hoes/b****es but white people can't." Kinda sad.

[Raveneffect21]

[QUOTE=PeterHilton;222859]Also interesting is the fact that so many pundits have used this story to bring up the whole "how come its ok for black rappers and comedians to use terms like n****r/hoes/b****es but white people can't." Kinda sad.[/QUOTE] Why is it sad for people to be sick of double standards?

[lovestruck420]

[QUOTE=Raveneffect21;222864]Why is it sad for people to be sick of double standards?[/QUOTE] Exactly, 'm mostly Irish, when my family came to America we were so discriminated against, that we actually had to move west to free ourselves from the persecution. We won't even talk about my Native american blood. But the point is, I don't hold any anger for the average red blooded american. The point that Shaprton says he is trying to make is that People shouldn't be able to use racial slurs on the radio........well why isn't he calling for the closing of all Rap stations in america.

[AfRoMaN36]

First off, it sounds like you've been listening to Mike and The Mad Dogg WAY too much. (Maybe you've never heard of them, but they've been beating that drum to death today) second of all, Sharpton has.... many times. He's called for boycotts of many rappers records and when a rapper got involved in a legal altercation, he said to boycott his music too. And to just flame rap music is wrong too. I know I said I wouldnt be posting here, but I just need to say Rock bands do the same, if not worse. (maybe not so much racial slurs) That is if its even true that music influences certain behaviors to begin with. And not all rap is meant to be "F*** this, F*** that"

[Raveneffect21]

I say we call for the dismissal of Shaprton because he insulted jews back in 84 VIVA LA RESISTANCE

[Guest The Aussie]

Perhaps Sharpton may be related to Jack Thompson; He tried to make the sale of NWA albums a criminal offence in California.

[GDE71]

It's all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Everything is all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Imus will be even richer because of this. Really, people, just get over it. Why let someone who was at least temporarily and idiot/jack@$$ have so much power over you and your feelings. Imus does a lot of good. I haven't heard one word on that.

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=PeterHilton;222859]I don't think Imus is racist. He was trying to be funny and crossed a line. What he said was stupid and offensive. I don't think he should've been fired. His punishment was fine. I definitely think there's a certain amount of irony in Sharpton and Jackson trying to stand up for black women given their history. And before anyone says it, yes, if a black comedian said it it would've been 100% acceptable. Sorry..that's just the nature of race relations in this country because of our history. Also interesting is the fact that so many pundits have used this story to bring up the whole "how come its ok for black rappers and comedians to use terms like n****r/hoes/b****es but white people can't." Kinda sad.[/QUOTE] I totally agree, except for the firing part. But I realize the business reason for not firing him (you fire him and the new satellite radio conglomerate created by the XM/Sirius merger is handed a top-tier star with a built-in fanbase. Call it "The Howard Stern Lesson"). Imus has been doing this for too long not to know the way the game goes. The fact is, a person has to have earned what's usually referred to as a "ghetto pass" in order to use certain vernacular. I'd be the first to admit it. I have white friends who use the n word to me with no problems, because we have similar backgrounds and experiences (i.e. they've earned their ghetto pass) and the context it's used in is acceptable. Let some dude I don't know call me that in casual conversation. I'm not a violent person personally but he'd be in ICU, without question. Some people try to play cute and say black folks say the word with an 'a' at the end and white folks say it with an '-er' but that's just splitting hairs (and not even WELL). Did Eminem (and to a lesser extent, Paul Wall) teach the mainstream nothing? [QUOTE=lovestruck420;222868]The point that Shaprton says he is trying to make is that People shouldn't be able to use racial slurs on the radio........well why isn't he calling for the closing of all Rap stations in america.[/QUOTE] Uhh, you don't seem too familiar with Al Sharpton, Calvin Butts, Jesse Jackson and the like. They've all spoken out about the problem with rap lyrics. Written Op-Eds in the Times, articles in various magazines, high profile protests on TV, the works. The problem is, the audience they're trying to reach isn't trying to hear what they have to say. :) Plus, it's a cultural thing more than anything else. If you're writing a song about the goings-on in predominantly black and hispanic urban areas, you CANNOT omit uncomfortable bits if you want to be taken seriously. You can't leave out the guys sleeping with each others' girlfriends ("Bros before hos"). You can't leave out the vernacular used in those situations. I mean, you could write it in the Queen's English with perfect diction and "acceptable" terminology but no one who has lived in those conditions will believe or buy into that. Bottom line is, if Imus was black, this wouldn't even have been an issue. Worse things are uttered every day on "urban" stations, just not in specific terms. What about the stories that ran in magazines like ESPN and Sports Illustrated talking about the NBA instituting a dress code? Look at the references made in those articles if you feel the need for outrage. When I first heard and saw the Imus show, I laughed at the reference. Heck, I even watched School Daze again tonight for the first time in YEARS ("Be Alone Tonight" is an excellent song IMO). But then, I rarely get uptight about things like this. As I've said, I understand the line of thinking and I hear far worse every day. I've seen the double standard in action for over 20 years. The difference is, when a non-"person of color" with no "ghetto cred" says it, it becomes this big issue.

[Raveneffect21]

[QUOTE=Remianen;222879]I totally agree, except for the firing part. But I realize the business reason for not firing him (you fire him and the new satellite radio conglomerate created by the XM/Sirius merger is handed a top-tier star with a built-in fanbase. Call it "The Howard Stern Lesson"). Imus has been doing this for too long not to know the way the game goes. The fact is, a person has to have earned what's usually referred to as a "ghetto pass" in order to use certain vernacular. I'd be the first to admit it. I have white friends who use the n word to me with no problems, because we have similar backgrounds and experiences (i.e. they've earned their ghetto pass) and the context it's used in is acceptable. Let some dude I don't know call me that in casual conversation. I'm not a violent person personally but he'd be in ICU, without question. Some people try to play cute and say black folks say the word with an 'a' at the end and white folks say it with an '-er' but that's just splitting hairs (and not even WELL). Did Eminem (and to a lesser extent, Paul Wall) teach the mainstream nothing? Uhh, you don't seem too familiar with Al Sharpton, Calvin Butts, Jesse Jackson and the like. They've all spoken out about the problem with rap lyrics. Written Op-Eds in the Times, articles in various magazines, high profile protests on TV, the works. The problem is, the audience they're trying to reach isn't trying to hear what they have to say. :) Plus, it's a cultural thing more than anything else. If you're writing a song about the goings-on in predominantly black and hispanic urban areas, you CANNOT omit uncomfortable bits if you want to be taken seriously. You can't leave out the guys sleeping with each others' girlfriends ("Bros before hos"). You can't leave out the vernacular used in those situations. I mean, you could write it in the Queen's English with perfect diction and "acceptable" terminology but no one who has lived in those conditions will believe or buy into that. Bottom line is, if Imus was black, this wouldn't even have been an issue. Worse things are uttered every day on "urban" stations, just not in specific terms. What about the stories that ran in magazines like ESPN and Sports Illustrated talking about the NBA instituting a dress code? Look at the references made in those articles if you feel the need for outrage. When I first heard and saw the Imus show, I laughed at the reference. Heck, I even watched School Daze again tonight for the first time in YEARS ("Be Alone Tonight" is an excellent song IMO). But then, I rarely get uptight about things like this. As I've said, I understand the line of thinking and I hear far worse every day. I've seen the double standard in action for over 20 years. The difference is, when a non-"person of color" with no "ghetto cred" says it, it becomes this big issue.[/QUOTE] So basicallly your saying freedom of speech is only ok at certain points?

[GDE71]

It's a stupid word. If you get pissed at a word, then you are stupid for letting THAT word have meaning to YOU. Don't buy into that you can't EVER get over THAT word. The only reason Sharpton or ANY person in power wants you to be offended is so they can make $$$$$$$$$$. Bad things happened systematically in the past. Bad things still happen systematically. If you continue to buy into the race hype, bad things will continue to happen systematically.

[PeterHilton]

[QUOTE=Raveneffect21;222864]Why is it sad for people to be sick of double standards?[/QUOTE] Remi explained it some. But it's not a double standard. Words in and of themselves aren't offensive. It's the context and meaning. For example: I'm Mexican. I've gone down to TJ with my friends and cousins for a bachelor party. We're all twiste din some bar and I've looked around and said to my boys, "Man...look at all these drunk ass Mexicans." It was a joke. They KNOW it's not derogatory or belittling. It's a shared experience between friends, brothers, blood. Now if some white guys came in off the street and we didn't know them and as they entered the bar and looked around they yelled out, "Man...look at all these drunk ass Mexicans," it'd be completely different. I'd have no idea how they meant it and it might be good natured joking. But it might not. It's like: "I can pick on my brother. But nobody else can." This is not that hard to understand. If there is any doubt as to the intention or meaning or spirit behind how a word is being used then people are going to be upset. Understandably so. And there are some "white guys" that are conisdered hip or cool enough to get away with those kinds of jokes. George Carlin did. Robin Williams did. Hell, I think Sinatra regularly referred to Sammy Davis as "his favorite n----." Don Imus is just not have the kind of reputation or good feeling within the black community so that people were 100% certain he wasn't being an a-hole. And that's why they got mad.

[PeterHilton]

[QUOTE=Raveneffect21;222882]So basicallly your saying freedom of speech is only ok at certain points?[/QUOTE] Dumb argument. Everyone has the right to say what ever they want. But they should also be prepared to handle the consequences. Jesse Jackson called new York "hymietown" a few years back. He deserved to get blasted. Billy Packer called Allen Iverson "a little monkey." He had to apologize to the media and was taken off CBS broadcasts for a while. The WWE upset a lot of people with their Hassan the Terrorist sketches. The character had to be pulled and the E apologized. You can't legally yell FIRE in a movie theatre. Tim Hardaway said he hated gay people and got fired. Do I really need to throw out any more examples of how the freedom of speech argument is pointless in cases like these. Freedom of speech does not mean someone has carte blanche to say whatever they please without any repercussions. EDIT: Let's be real here. Imus is a middle aged white guy who refers to Arabs and Muslims as ragheads, has called black news anchors "quota hires" and "cleaning ladies" and once made jokes about Maya Angelou being "a spearchucker." He referred to a group of black women as 'jigaboos' and 'nappy headed hoes.' Is anyone [I]really [/I]surprised that people got upset about this?

[GDE71]

The repercussions are just "temporary vengeance makes me feel better" measures. They actually don't do a damn thing. Stupid things to make stupid people feel good about themselves. Just like religion.

[PeterHilton]

[QUOTE=GDE71;222894]The repercussions are just "temporary vengeance makes me feel better" measures. They actually don't do a damn thing. Stupid things to make stupid people feel good about themselves. Just like religion.[/QUOTE] So what do you suggest? Social evolution through anarchy? Just unplug from the Matrix? We all just start to love one another unconditionally? Sorry...I thought this was a discussion about..y'know...reality.

[GDE71]

Dude said stuff Other dudes got pissed who really gives a @#$@#$@#% GET OVER IT

[PeterHilton]

Based on the response we might as well stop making any threads whatsoever. Dudes wrestled. Other dudes wrestled. Some people said it sucked. Others quite liked it and felt as though their time was well spent. WHAT DOES IT MATTER? Nihilism is fairly useless in message boards. We're trying to discuss why people got upset and the factors that go into racial sensitivity. If you think its pointless don't chime in.

[GDE71]

I think it's all didactic bull@%&* It's moralistic posing. Example: I got offended and therefore I'm better than you.

[PeterHilton]

[QUOTE=GDE71;222904]I think it's all didactic bull@%&* It's moralistic posing. Example: I got offended and therefore I'm better than you.[/QUOTE] Yeah, you're wrong. I'm not personally offended by what he said. I thought it was stupid. And I'm sure there are some people that are getting offended for show, as you said. But when the fathers of those girls on the team are on radio and they're furious because someone called their daughter a "ho," or guys like Joe Morgan or Charles Barkley or Bill Russell talk about how upset their families got or how their daughters felt and how it reminded them of some of the things fans said to them in their playing days.....basically if you honestly believed that those comments didn't honestly touch a nerve for some people then you're being very oblivious.

[GDE71]

I think it just feeds in to what true racists want. Which obviously is racial disharmony. It lets them further their agenda and make more money. Truly strong individuals would not be "victim" to words.

[PeterHilton]

Again..real world discussion..real world issues. I have no idea what "true racists" want. I kinda assume they want everyone to be separated. Or for one race to be dominant over other races. But that's not what this discussion or what these issues are about. People are different. On many levels, Americans have no clue how to relate to one another. What sets us off. Whats important. What makes us tick. If we don't have these kinds of discussions or dismiss them offhandedly as political pandering or "double standards" then we're not making any progress. Even if you want to ignore Jackson or Sharpton or anyone like them, how do you ignore the everyday people who were upset and had no agenda except for their own emotional response to a racial slur? Even if you cry double standard, what do you say to the many members of the black community who comdemn both rap music and comedians like Imus? I think the biggest reason why America stopped growing socially was because people became afraid of 'rocking the boat.' We stunted our own growth to maintain the peace. [QUOTE]Truly strong individuals would not be "victim" to words.[/QUOTE] Again, reality. Weren't you one of the people who wanted anyone who posted "offensive or tasteless" threads to have their thread removed and to be punished in some way? Where was this message then?

[GDE71]

Words alone didn't kill 3,000 people in 2001. Also, there is a HUGE difference in a semi-private message board and National Media.

[PeterHilton]

Honestly, I have no idea what your point is. Imus affects MORE people. So obviously he would be under more scrutiny. So people on a greater scale need to be strong but the dozens of members who regularly visit the Dog Poind need to be protected? Your response to issues of racial intolerance or misunderstanding is 'to suck it up?'

[GDE71]

My response is to have no response to it. It really means nothing in the BIG picture. My meaning on National Media is that you shouldn't censor ANYONE in the National Media. I'm done with this tonight. I can't believe I've passively spent this much time on it. Get over what Imus said. It really wasn't that big of a deal anyway. It got MANUFACTURED into a "big story" the same way Anna Nicole's death did. They are both non-story's. They have virtually no impact on everyone on Earth. Have a great night/day.