1997

[justtxyank]

To me, 1997 is THE pivotal year in modern wrestling history. We all know about Montreal and then Bret leaving for WCW and everything that followed. It was also the year that WCW got faced with the proverbial "fork in the road." Obviously they went down the wrong path and eventually ran out of time. So hypothetically, it's December 1st 1997. You run WCW. Bret Hart is now with you as is Davey Boy and Niedhart. Sting and Hogan are set for Starrcade. What would you have done with the roster and storylines to make WCW stay on top? I'm really interested in hearing some elaborate ideas.

[AfRoMaN36]

Hand Hogan a gun and tell him its candy. WCW would be saved.

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=AfRoMaN36;254525]Hand Hogan a gun and tell him its candy. WCW would be saved.[/QUOTE] You know... I was never that much of a fan for one guy... I was actually a fan of Snuka's, much more then Hogan back then... and even to this day, but... I think you guys give too much credit to one guy no matter what the topic is. One guy DID NOT RUIN or MAKE one company. It takes more then one person to succeed with anything that has more then a couple of people employed. There is no WAY, NONE whatsoever, that Hulk Hogan was responsible for WCW going under. Not even his contract can be blamed, NOT JUST HIS ALONE. Pluss... Whatever his contract was, HE WAS WORTH IT. Without him they would have had alot harder time beating WWF in the first place.

[AfRoMaN36]

Bbb-b-b-but.... b-ut he t-t-the.... what.... (Smark-machine malfuntions) VINCE IS THE DEVIL!!! (explodes)

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=djthefunkchris;254554]You know... I was never that much of a fan for one guy... I was actually a fan of Snuka's, much more then Hogan back then... and even to this day, but... I think you guys give too much credit to one guy no matter what the topic is. One guy DID NOT RUIN or MAKE one company. It takes more then one person to succeed with anything that has more then a couple of people employed. There is no WAY, NONE whatsoever, that Hulk Hogan was responsible for WCW going under. Not even his contract can be blamed, NOT JUST HIS ALONE. Pluss... Whatever his contract was, HE WAS WORTH IT. Without him they would have had alot harder time beating WWF in the first place.[/QUOTE] Chris, as the eternal optimist of GDS, you're looking at this in far too myopic a manner. You're familiar with team sports, right? You've heard of the term "team chemistry", haven't you? The same thing could be posited in this situation. No, Hogan by himself didn't make WCW crash. But his fairly unique (at the time) contract and influence, along with his "loyalty" to people he considered friends, gave him power that he later used in less than stellar fashion. Hogan was like a larger scale Terrell Owens. Yes, without him the Eagles probably wouldn't have made it to the Super Bowl but they didn't WIN the Super Bowl and he had an effect on the team "off camera" that wasn't necessarily positive. So no, Hogan by himself didn't "kill" WCW. But he wasn't exactly a non-factor either. I can't say I was that big of a wrestling fan in '97. That year was pretty much the midpoint of my "Young, Gifted, and Black making way too much corporate money" phase. ("Way too much money" compared to previous generations of twentysomethings) Most of my memories of that period, wrestling wise, are fairly hazy because it wasn't really that high on my (admittedly long) interest list. So I can't say whether it was the best because I've gotten far more enjoyment out of wrestling over the last two years or so.

[flamebrain]

[QUOTE=justtxyank;254486]To me, 1997 is THE pivotal year in modern wrestling history. We all know about Montreal and then Bret leaving for WCW and everything that followed. It was also the year that WCW got faced with the proverbial "fork in the road." Obviously they went down the wrong path and eventually ran out of time.[/QUOTE] I think they took the right path at that time its just they then drove past their destination and kept on going with monkey knife fights in the back seat and a potted plant at the wheel.

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=AfRoMaN36;254557]Bbb-b-b-but.... b-ut he t-t-the.... what.... (Smark-machine malfuntions) VINCE IS THE DEVIL!!! (explodes)[/QUOTE] LOL... You know what I mean though. I'm not picking on you, and I know you know better. [QUOTE=justtxyank;254486]To me, 1997 is THE pivotal year in modern wrestling history. We all know about Montreal and then Bret leaving for WCW and everything that followed. It was also the year that WCW got faced with the proverbial "fork in the road." Obviously they went down the wrong path and eventually ran out of time. So hypothetically, it's December 1st 1997. You run WCW. Bret Hart is now with you as is Davey Boy and Niedhart. Sting and Hogan are set for Starrcade. What would you have done with the roster and storylines to make WCW stay on top? I'm really interested in hearing some elaborate ideas.[/QUOTE] I would push Bret to be bigger then ever. I would play off the personalities of Hogan and instead of trying to put the younger guys over the one's that have these contracts that give them the power to NOT be beaten if they don't want to be, I would have them manage the younger guys or something... For example, I would have someone like Hogan manage Bret, make him out to be a fan of Bret's, etc. I would do the same with quite a few of them back then, but don't get me wrong... I wouldn't be so quick to try to put over little guys, they would have to work for it. People like Mysterio would eventually make it though, other's... Probably under my watch would not make it to world title status (but might under tag teams). I would push the personalities that everyone already knew really well, like Randy Savage and such. They wouldn't be hitting the ring all the time, but they would definately be used to get interest in PPV's. They would also be used to enhance other's as much as possible. The one thing I think promotions do too much of is overuse their most valuable resource's, to the point that it starts to become almost boring. "Yeah, I've heard that story before" (Example). So I would definately try to come up with more unique storylines, and above all, like I already mentioned. They would revolve around the older OVER guys pushing the younger guys, egging them onward... Kind of like... Kind of like the Vince vs. Trump feud, where Trump had a guy and Vince had a guy. Not that it would be a hair match, but if they go for it, why the heck not? Anyways, I would have something like that, only using the older over guys in Vince and Trumps place, and the younger guys to fight for them. This would lead up to certain PPV's being legend and young guy vs. Legend and young guy. This would then give me the opportunity to get the younger guys whipping the older guys, and them going for the tag to the younger guy to save them against the other younger guy. This would help build them up without the legends ever having to actually get beat cleanly... They would be able to say, "Yah, I lost the match, but it was that Green young son of a gun's, whose back was on the mat!" and thus, no problem with "creativity" concerns. It's all in how you look at things. I would give someone like The Rock, or Hogan, Or even Randy Savage creative controll of their character's to an extent, but they would still have to at least pick some new guys to help get over... It would mean thier jobs if they didn't. NOT necessarily if they didn't aggree with who I wanted them to push, but it would if they decided that NO one would be pushed... That's not what happened though, they were willing, just not to certain people.

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=Remianen;254566]Chris, as the eternal optimist of GDS, you're looking at this in far too myopic a manner. You're familiar with team sports, right? You've heard of the term "team chemistry", haven't you? The same thing could be posited in this situation. No, Hogan by himself didn't make WCW crash. But his fairly unique (at the time) contract and influence, along with his "loyalty" to people he considered friends, gave him power that he later used in less than stellar fashion. Hogan was like a larger scale Terrell Owens. Yes, without him the Eagles probably wouldn't have made it to the Super Bowl but they didn't WIN the Super Bowl and he had an effect on the team "off camera" that wasn't necessarily positive. So no, Hogan by himself didn't "kill" WCW. But he wasn't exactly a non-factor either. I can't say I was that big of a wrestling fan in '97. That year was pretty much the midpoint of my "Young, Gifted, and Black making way too much corporate money" phase. ("Way too much money" compared to previous generations of twentysomethings) Most of my memories of that period, wrestling wise, are fairly hazy because it wasn't really that high on my (admittedly long) interest list. So I can't say whether it was the best because I've gotten far more enjoyment out of wrestling over the last two years or so.[/QUOTE] I realise these things, and I've been a part of a team, and... Well, my favorite saying is TEAM = Together Everyone Achieves More! With that though, I cannot allow someone that thought they were probably doing what was right, in their own minds, the blame for an entire bussiness going down the drain. The decisions that did that were way above his calls. There is a thing that you do with bad apple's in most jobs... no matter how GREAT they think they themselves are, and that is done with a stroke of the pin, bassically saying "Your Fired!" Eternal Optimist, maybe, foolhardy or naive, NO.. Lack of information on EXACTLY what was going on, possibly. My understanding is that he had some kind of controll clause to his contract, that allowed him to protect the character he portrayed. This in turn let him decide if he would be "Jobbing" to someone he felt was not ready to be "Jobbed" too, or he felt his character should not EVER lose too. I don't have a problem with that... as I stated in a previous post, I would handle that in that fashion. Like it or not, I would do my best to utilize him and his character in a way that helped me and didn't make him feel his character was being missused. I would have tried to come up with solutions, instead of just dwelling on "Why Won't you?". I would ask questions, get solutions, keep going, and if he was just being a "Prick" about everything, I would show him the door, and very nicely come to the end of his contracts term, even if it meant I had to pay for him six months to do nothing.

[flamebrain]

I think the problem was that WCW was an environment that bred and inflated egos. When your getting paid stupid money and given control over your character and treated like royalty then its understandable that you would fall for your own hype. And if you consider yourself the greatest you're then unlikely to feel that you need to do the J.O.B to people that even the company paying you has made clear aren't on your level.

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=flamebrain;254594]I think the problem was that WCW was an environment that bred and inflated egos. When your getting paid stupid money and given control over your character and treated like royalty then its understandable that you would fall for your own hype. And if you consider yourself the greatest you're then unlikely to feel that you need to do the J.O.B to people that even the company paying you has made clear aren't on your level.[/QUOTE] IF I could give out a star rating for a single Entry, this one would get the highest rating! I aggree 100% here.

[masterded]

I am going to look at this as if it was back then and not now. No hindsight or anything like that. People who well never be pushed due to my hatred of them at the time. -Eddie Guerrero (I could never stand him then and never learned to like him, may be because every character he ever had seemed stereotypical and stupid.) -Chris Benoint (Another person I would refuse to touch, this tine due to a lack of anything resembling charisma.) -Goldberg (Nothing needs to be said) -So I have Sting win the title clean. -An angry Hogan blames Hall and Nash -Hogan gets a rematch with Sting which looks like will win when Nash and Hall come to the ring, but instead attack Hogan leading to his lost. -Hall, Nash, and Syxx become there own stable. -The New World Order becomes Hogan’s World Order. -For the next 6 months to a year it is there mission to screw over Hall, Nash and Syxx. -Ends with Hall getting huge win over Hogan in a loser leaves WCW match. (Now if Hogan refuses he gets paid to sit on his ass and do nothing. Sure its lost money but who cares. He then is replaced with Mr. Perfect who no matter what gets a big push.) -Same time a fued between Sting and Hart starts over a stupid argument of what the finisher is called. -They adventually have there first match with Sting wining clean (by pin). -Hart challenges him to a rematch where the person must win with the Sharpshotter. -Durring the match Hart (who up to this point would be face) would cheat using a weapon to injur Sting. Though Sting instead of tapping would past out from the pain. -Next is a fued with DDP whale Sting is on the shelf. -Sting returns a huge match happens and Hart wins but with the help of Hogan (month before Hogan leaves WCW match). -This then leads to Hart taking over Hogan’s World Order but with less people. -Leads to stable war. -Hall ends up finally winning the Gold. (Of course depening on his demons this is scrapped and someone else is brought in as a replacment.) I would also be pushing the following heavy. -Chris Jericho -Malenko -Buff Of course they are many things that could end up hurting this. Not only Hogan’s ego but Bret’s huge ego too. (I figuer Nash would be okay due to he would still be getting push and Hall would be getting the title.) To many of us just kind of give Bret a free pass sure in WCW he wasn’t that bad but his ego is a problem. I remember an interview at world wrestling insanity with the Mountie, where he said that Bret was a headach. That Bret didn’t realise that Bret didn’t make Bret that the guys in the back made Bret. He basically said that the Montreal Inncident was largely Bret’s fault. He then brought up a story about him winning the Intercontinental title from Bret. Apparently before the match Bret went back to Vince and made them announce that Bret had the flue or something but was going to be a fighting champ. Just so when he lost he would still look good. Even though it would diminish the Mounties accomplishment. So I would have to be afraid he would try and pull stuff like that. Though like I said with Hulk if someone is going to not do something thy can sit at home and get paid rather then try and control the company.

[PeterHilton]

Wow. You'd push Malenko but not Benoit because 'he lacked charisma?' And you'd push Buff, but ignore the ultra-charismatic Eddie Guerrero and the ridiculously over Bill Goldberg? Awesome. Here are my sugestions - I would've rode Bill Goldberg as long as he sold merchandise and drove the ratings. I give two ****s if he has only two moves. The guy was the only homegrown star the WCW created. He would've been undefeated for the entire year leading into a Starcade 98 match with Sting The July 6th Nitor still would've happened. Goldberg still beats Hogan clean in front of a packed Atlanta house. But post-match, Sting comes out to shake his hand and Bill spears him out of his bots. No heel turn..just a signal that Goldberg TAKES ON ALL COMERS. I sell roughly 2 million Who's Next shirts in the next 6 weeks. Sting probablyfeud with the horribly underrated DDP and maybe The Giant through-out the year. Hes a strong, fighting champion. Speaking of: Sting would've gone over cleanly at Starcade against Hogan. As a matter of fact, the nWo would've been deciamted, and the group would've been 'shaken' so badly that ti would've led to a spit between Hogan and Nash. It would've been gang warfarefor the entire year, with several people changing sides. Nash would beat Hall at Great American bash in a Ladder match to take Hall off screen. I fire Hall for good the next time he acts up. The hot Hart-Flair feud that happened in real life continues. Hart-Flair morphs into Hart -Horsemen and on several consecutive PPVs we get Hart vs Benoit and/or Malenko with Flair in their corner, using his trickery to help the "fledgling" Horsemen ...until Hart finaly beats both challengers and Flair eventually has to step back into the ring. The whoole time, goes w/o saying, hart makes Benoit and Malenko look like frickin' gods. Throw in some cruiser stuff and Norman Smiley and those storlyines drive Nitro for the year. Starcade 98 is headlined by: Sting vs Goldberg - theface of WCW vs the NEW face of WCW Hogan vs Nash nWo street fight..'retirement' stipulation..and overbooked clusterf*ck with twoof the most over guys on the planet Bret Hart vs Ric Flair - two of three falls..for kicks Steamboat is in Hart's corner The Steiners vs Malenko/Benoit (ready to mak the leap after a year in the ring with Flair/Hart)