Another WWE spoiler

[masterded]

I don't really want to get involved in any debate but there is no doubt the Big Show was angry with the WWE. That is why he had the word slave on his face when he was doing some work with that Memphis wrestling thing. (Though it was a joke too, prince did that in the 90's when he was unhappy with his recoded deal.)

[Guest Ransik]

[QUOTE=masterded;289573]I don't really want to get involved in any debate but there is no doubt the Big Show was angry with the WWE. That is why he had the word slave on his face when he was doing some work with that Memphis wrestling thing. (Though it was a joke too, prince did that in the 90's when he was unhappy with his recoded deal.)[/QUOTE] Big Show put "slave" on his face? I never heard about that!

[masterded]

[QUOTE=Ransik;289575]Big Show put "slave" on his face? I never heard about that![/QUOTE] Yeah, it was after he was done with WWE and did that program with Hogan. If I am not mistaken it was during a promo. Though like I said even though it was to do with frustration with the WWE it was also a joke.

[Guest Ransik]

That's crazy. I mean I know his yearly deal went from one million down to about $400,000 and that's why he didn't resign on top of his knees being almost completely gone from his weight gain due to never being able to take care of himself on the road... but I'm sure if he put it on his face he did feel it partly. I've read that now he's in the type of shape he was when he first debuted in WCW and he's a hell of a lot more healthy now that he's not spending his life on the road.

[djthefunkchris]

Slave on his face? I didn't hear about that either, but thanks for the clarification. [QUOTE]I've read that now he's in the type of shape he was when he first debuted in WCW and he's a hell of a lot more healthy now that he's not spending his life on the road.[/QUOTE] I've heard alot of good things about his health as well, lately:-)

[NickC13573]

[QUOTE=djthefunkchris;289569]I'd like to see that:-)[/QUOTE] and see how I didnt say Russo:p

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=NickC13573;289587]and see how I didnt say Russo:p[/QUOTE] Yeah, I noticed that as well :D

[SuperOwens]

[QUOTE=Ransik;289571] What you've described with Kurt is the WWE's side of the story... and I tend to believe Kurt himself and not a group of lawyers and office kiss asses whose only interest is making the company look like Mother Theresa. [/QUOTE] Wow, it amazes me that anybody believes a word that comes out of Angles mouth. This is the guy that has made so many ludicrous claims since leaving WWE that surely the only explanation is that his head is awash with far to many pain pills! Im not sure i understand a lot of what's been written in this thread. Most of us agree that there is a drug problem in wrestling. Most of us agree that the WWE needs to do something about that problem. We agree that the wellness policy isn't worth the paper its written on. So why then, when a wrestler gets suspended for his second violation of that policy, his fans are up in arms and say he's right to quit because he was booked into a bad position... Hang on i didn't think we wanted drug users in the promotion let alone at the top. Booker T has been suspended for buying steroids, now that he's thrown his toys out of the pram, people have forgotten what they have said in the last 3 months and are defending him. I really don't understand wrestling fans.

[djthefunkchris]

I made that point as well, lol.

[panix04]

I was never a big booker T fan, mind you i had only really seen his WWE stuff, i never cared much for WCW. But his matches always seemed lacking in the moves department. I enjoyed his little run with Golddust though, that was pretty funny at times. But i'm glad the WWE are finalyy stepping down on people with drug problems even if there hand has been forced somewhat. As a wrestling fan its hard to hear about your favourite stars being hooked on meds. But two of my favourite stars are on that list and i hope they get a stern punishment and hopefully learn from it so in 10 years time they are still performing rather then being just another statistic! I was just glad that Kane hasn't been found guilty of any wrong doing - i love the big red machine! :D

[G-Prime]

[QUOTE=sheepy;289483]Anyone else feel as though the WWE has just fallen to cult?[/QUOTE] You sir, win the internet.

[Guest Ransik]

[QUOTE=SuperOwens;289752]Wow, it amazes me that anybody believes a word that comes out of Angles mouth. This is the guy that has made so many ludicrous claims since leaving WWE that surely the only explanation is that his head is awash with far to many pain pills! Im not sure i understand a lot of what's been written in this thread. Most of us agree that there is a drug problem in wrestling. Most of us agree that the WWE needs to do something about that problem. We agree that the wellness policy isn't worth the paper its written on. So why then, when a wrestler gets suspended for his second violation of that policy, his fans are up in arms and say he's right to quit because he was booked into a bad position... Hang on i didn't think we wanted drug users in the promotion let alone at the top. Booker T has been suspended for buying steroids, now that he's thrown his toys out of the pram, people have forgotten what they have said in the last 3 months and are defending him. I really don't understand wrestling fans.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry but I'm more willing to believe an individual person rather than something that was sent down through about 6 different offices through who knows how many people. Vince never posted what happened with Angle... I'm sure it was the lawyers and crap who told the offices what to say who in turn told the webmasters what to say and you know the WWE.... stir, stir, stir the pot for controversy. Maybe it's just I know what all this stuff does to you when you're in the business and some people refuse to believe what really happens. The facts we know from both sides is Kurt went to them and said if he couldn't get some time off to heal himself and fix himself he wanted out. So either way... if on the smal chance they DID fire him... which I refuse to believe considering how protective they've been to their roster since TNA started Impact... he still wanted his release. And with any job... if you want to quit, your boss cannot say they fired you... that's against the law and I know that one personally because I had to have the national labor board intervene a few years back because of that. But like I keep saying... if everyone has the same story eventually you become ignorant to the truth if you keep going "the WWE isn't doing anything wrong, they're protecting themselves." The wrestlers need to protect their lives more... it's far more important than the company. That actually wasn't Booker's second suspension... it was his first... and it wasn't for steroids either. And as I also said... the suspension wasn't the main reason either... it was the way he was being treated going from top player on Smackdown to jobbing out on RAW to everyone with no one getting any kind of rub from the losses and wins. You may not understand wrestling fans... but understand the wrestler. They're going to protect themselves first and the company second just like it should be.

[PeterHilton]

It's really hard to believe Angle because, terms of his "release" aside, he *has* made some pretty insane claims after the fact and his name is popping up every time one of these on-line pharmacies is being investigated and yet he's still telling anyone who'll listen that he's totally clean. I'm not sure he really deserves the benfit of the doubt at this point. Also... [QUOTE=Ransik]That actually wasn't Booker's second suspension... it was his first... [B]and it wasn't for steroids either[/B]. [/QUOTE] Huh? How was this suspension not for steroids?

[Guest Ransik]

Most of them were suspended for pharmaceutical (sp?) drugs that were against Congress' list of drugs that were okay for them to be taking. I think only 2 of the 11 were actually for steroids... maybe only 1... can't remember where the list is. Yes but where Angle's name falls on that list is the timefame in which he was messed up and asking the WWE for time off and/or release. Hell look at Edge... he was suspended NOW for stuff he ordered more than 2 years ago.

[PeterHilton]

[QUOTE=Ransik;289814]Most of them were suspended for pharmaceutical (sp?) drugs that were against Congress' list of drugs that were okay for them to be taking. I think only 2 of the 11 were actually for steroids... maybe only 1... can't remember where the list is. Yes but where Angle's name falls on that list is the timefame in which he was messed up and asking the WWE for time off and/or release.[/QUOTE] Yeah..you're misinformed. Most of the early articles are quoted somewhere in here [url]http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25748[/url] But every wrestler named in that investigation ordered some form of steroid or steroid masking agent. SI.com actually listed names of wrestlers and what they ordered specifically. They didn't list what Booker ordered, but why would he use one of these on-line pharmacies if he wasn't ordering steroids? Also...Angle has been named in multiple investigations and has been linked to severe pain medication uses for like the last four years or so. He himself has admitted to having issues with pain medication dating back to his time just after the Olympics. This isn't recent. Seriously, you do sound like SuperOwens described. It's OK to talk about the drug problems in wrestlings, as long as no one mentions your favorites.

[djthefunkchris]

Also, from what I understand, no one was suspended if it dated back before the implementation of the Wellness plan. Only those that have violated it since it's been put in place (weather or not it was a real problem to reckon with before or not). I know, why didn't they do something before about it? Reason has been defined to where it's won ME over. If you know me, it took my hard head a while. It's because the Wellness program was more of a farce then even the worse headlines I seen about it put it. However, now that they are under investigation, they are trying to remedy it, or at least make it look like they are trying to.

[Guest Ransik]

It has nothing to do with favorites. I'm not very fond of Angle... I hate Edge... hell I'm not very fond of most of the people on those lists.

[SuperOwens]

[QUOTE=Ransik;289794] That actually wasn't Booker's second suspension... it was his first... [/QUOTE] 60 days my friend, that means second offence

[PeterHilton]

[QUOTE=Ransik;289834]It has nothing to do with favorites. I'm not very fond of Angle... I hate Edge... hell I'm not very fond of most of the people on those lists.[/QUOTE] OK...then you have no real reason to keep believing either Booker or Angle. So why do you do it when all evidence points to the contrary? Also, you're Edge example is screwed up too. He STARTED ordering in Sept of 04 but was receiving shipments until the site was shut down in Feb of this year. Seriously...follow that link and read what the AP, SI.com, espn.com, the NY Daily News, and Meltzer were reporting. The WWE didn't catch anyone or stop anyone. If the NY DA's office hadn't shut that service down, they would still be processing orders for guys on the WWE roster. And for all we know, once it WAS shut down, every guy on that list just went and found another source to order form for th last 7 months.

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=Ransik;289834]It has nothing to do with favorites. I'm not very fond of Angle... I hate Edge... hell I'm not very fond of most of the people on those lists.[/QUOTE] Then why are you constantly trying to protect them. I happen to be fans of just about everyone on that list. Yet, I'm inclined to believe proof over heresay. It's easy to blame the world for your problems, but... some of the names you mentioned has gone out of their way to "Scrunch" the very things your saying. You say you would rather believe Kurt Angle, but when I told you what RVD had to say, and even Chris Jerico... You completely ignore them. If you don't want to believe he said it, you can catch what he thinks about all this stuff right now, [URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/birmingham/content/articles/2007/07/09/rob_van_dam_feature.shtml"]here[/URL] It's an interview with his own voice. What you say, and what THEY say are like day and night sometimes. What I really think about all this. I think some things have happened to you in the past, and your letting your personal feelings dictate what is real or unreal to you. Your admirable in some ways, but totally unbelievable in other ways. I want to believe you, but everytime you say something that I found out already (and sometimes months' prior), that come from their own words, or blogs, etc.. Just doesn't make scense. Why would they lie about anything, especially if they aren't working for the WWE. EDIT: Seriously, have a listen, I picked those out especially because it's so similar to what you did say about RVD.

[bookerman]

This may have been stated somewhere else, but the WWE has created their own drug problems. Steroids, while used for muscle mass building, aren't required to be a wrestler. The WWE encourages them via the promotion of those that have the best looking bodies. It's not who has the best bench press or can squat the most. The steroids are used for looks and to assist in the healing after matches. Painkillers, used to reduce the pain sustained by an occupation that has been described as being in a 35 mile per hour car wreck each time you hit the mat. Think about that for a second. There's a reason they don't play football every day of the week. They normally have 6 days off between games. WWE wrestlers typically work 3-4 days a week for 10-15 minutes. This doesn't include any other exercise outside the ring. The body is not made to withstand these constant poundings. If the WWE is serious about cleaing up the drug culture, it will take steps to reduce workload and stop emphasizing the need for well sculpted bodies to reach the top of the card. Bringing back squash matches for TV would help as local talent could be used instead of marquee names. The brand split should have helped with this, but instead they have their separate tours. Giving each employee a month of paid vacation in addition to the non-working days of the week would reduce wear and tear and allow characters to stay fresh. The WWEs mindest over the last 5-7 years has been "burn and turn". They run through storylines and potential long-term feuds in weeks and then turn to the next storyline to burn through. There is no emphasis on creating on long term stars and balanced cards. Look at the supercards of the 80's. There were strong matches up and down the cards. You could watch tag teams or brawls or title matches all on the same card. Tag teams are afterthoughts and every match is roughly the same. I hope the WWE gets it's stuff together and realizes the long term viability of the business is possibly at stake.

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=bookerman;290216]This may have been stated somewhere else, but the WWE has created their own drug problems. Steroids, while used for muscle mass building, aren't required to be a wrestler. The WWE encourages them via the promotion of those that have the best looking bodies. It's not who has the best bench press or can squat the most. The steroids are used for looks and to assist in the healing after matches. Painkillers, used to reduce the pain sustained by an occupation that has been described as being in a 35 mile per hour car wreck each time you hit the mat. Think about that for a second. There's a reason they don't play football every day of the week. They normally have 6 days off between games. WWE wrestlers typically work 3-4 days a week for 10-15 minutes. This doesn't include any other exercise outside the ring. The body is not made to withstand these constant poundings. If the WWE is serious about cleaing up the drug culture, it will take steps to reduce workload and stop emphasizing the need for well sculpted bodies to reach the top of the card. Bringing back squash matches for TV would help as local talent could be used instead of marquee names. The brand split should have helped with this, but instead they have their separate tours. Giving each employee a month of paid vacation in addition to the non-working days of the week would reduce wear and tear and allow characters to stay fresh. The WWEs mindest over the last 5-7 years has been "burn and turn". They run through storylines and potential long-term feuds in weeks and then turn to the next storyline to burn through. There is no emphasis on creating on long term stars and balanced cards. Look at the supercards of the 80's. There were strong matches up and down the cards. You could watch tag teams or brawls or title matches all on the same card. Tag teams are afterthoughts and every match is roughly the same. I hope the WWE gets it's stuff together and realizes the long term viability of the business is possibly at stake.[/QUOTE] I really don't see it like that. I do see bigger guys winning, but not sculpted and muscular all the time. Look at Khali, Umaga, The tag team champs at any time... Edge, RVD, and on and on. The rest I can aggree with though, the constant pounding, and the use for healing and such, ok. I can see that. I can't see that they have to be sculpted, though... To many have been there that haven't been, way more then that has. Steve Austin wasn't even sculpted. Just saying... This all started with Hulk Hogan, back when he admitted the steroids and such. HE is not the end all be all to champions, and his words aren't exactly the thoughts of everyone (ask Randy Savage).

[PeterHilton]

[QUOTE=djthefunkchris;290237]I really don't see it like that. I do see bigger guys winning, but not sculpted and muscular all the time. Look at Khali, Umaga, The tag team champs at any time... Edge, RVD, and on and on. The rest I can aggree with though, the constant pounding, and the use for healing and such, ok. I can see that. I can't see that they have to be sculpted, though... To many have been there that haven't been, way more then that has. Steve Austin wasn't even sculpted. Just saying... This all started with Hulk Hogan, back when he admitted the steroids and such. HE is not the end all be all to champions, and his words aren't exactly the thoughts of everyone (ask Randy Savage).[/QUOTE] chris, you've been so wrong so often on this issue I'm not sure why you even argue anymore.

[bookerman]

There is long held trend in the WWE of pushing larger, muscular wrestlers regardless of in-ring ability or personality over smaller, more capable wrestlers. The most successful wrestlers recently (Austin and Foley)have not necessarily fit this mold, however, but they had the personality and ability to interact with fans that took them to the top. For a recent example, witness Lashley's push. Great body and look, subpar mic work, decent in-ring work. Compare him to someone like CM Punk who doesn't have great size, but is a solid worker on the mic and in the ring. Lashley has had many more visible programs than Punk. Of the names you mentioned (Khali, Umage, Edge, and RVD), two were busted as part of the pharmacy issue (Umaga and Edge). Khali is where he is because of his size, period. Maybe I slept through it, but when has RVD ever won the Raw or Smackdown heavyweight titles? Not trying to start anything, but the disposition of the head of company of who should get pushed hasn't changed in 30 years, except when under suspicion for steroids in the early 90's. That's when Hart and Michaels were pushed ahead of the muscleheads. The way to get higher on the card is to be tall and well built or have so much personality and fan connection that you HAVE to get moved up.

[PeterHilton]

Naw..start something. Not only are you right, but chris has been wrong on this issue every single step of the way. Only a complete WWE apologist would try to say that there isn't an aesthetic purpose for wrestlers to use steroids. Seriously, going back as far as Superstar Billy Graham, the WWE has told its performers that they would get pushed if only they had "the look." *winkwink* The E may not be forcing wrestlers to juice to get bigger, but when smaller more normal looking guys see no-talent jobbers like Chris Masters get pushed based entirely on their appearance, it doesn't take a genius to figure out what they will do to compete for a position on the roster. PS technically speaking, RVD did win the WWE title at ONS against Cena.