A question for anyone or especially Adam...

[Anubis]

I think I have already confirmed this through my own testing, but I should probably ask without hijacking someone else's thread. Does a low wrestling industry rating hurt segment grades? The reason I ask is because in my two player game, the other player booked Brock Lesnar (great skills, A* popularity, perfect condition), Sting (great skills, A* popularity, good condition), and Chris Jericho (great skills, A* popularity, good condition) in a match in TNA (sports entertainment product, B+ popularity) and only garnered a B+ rating even with All Out notes and everything. In addition, when using these people with A* popularity in normal matches, they barely break B-. The only thing I see that could be a problem is that the wrestling industry is sitting at an E rating at the moment. Heck, I've done the same thing in a normal game by myself and nail A* matches on a regular basis. Either that or styles other than Entertainer get penalized in a sports entertainment promotion, though I highly doubt that has any effect. Very weird. Also weird was WWE's Royal Rumble, which had all segments at C+ or B- and above with a good main event and yet the show only scored a C. It's like the low wrestling industry rating is killing show ratings. Thing is, with my promotion which is a small one, I am getting really good ratings for the most part, and seem to be getting no penalties. I have very little Mainstream in my product settings, but am still entertainment based though tilted more to Modern and Risque. So does the state of the wrestling industry actually affect show ratings? If so, that would explain it since it's at E right now. I didn't think it did, but I could have been wrong. After running several shows, it all but confirms that the low wrestling industry rating does indeed affect individual segment ratings greatly, but again, I'm not certain. So any clarification would be appreciated.

[Adam Ryland]

No, it does not.

[xfactor9600]

[QUOTE=Anubis;318779]I think I have already confirmed this through my own testing, but I should probably ask without hijacking someone else's thread. Does a low wrestling industry rating hurt segment grades? The reason I ask is because in my two player game, the other player booked Brock Lesnar (great skills, A* popularity, perfect condition), Sting (great skills, A* popularity, good condition), and Chris Jericho (great skills, A* popularity, good condition) in a match in TNA (sports entertainment product, B+ popularity) and only garnered a B+ rating even with All Out notes and everything. In addition, when using these people with A* popularity in normal matches, they barely break B-. The only thing I see that could be a problem is that the wrestling industry is sitting at an E rating at the moment. Heck, I've done the same thing in a normal game by myself and nail A* matches on a regular basis. Either that or styles other than Entertainer get penalized in a sports entertainment promotion, though I highly doubt that has any effect. Very weird. Also weird was WWE's Royal Rumble, which had all segments at C+ or B- and above with a good main event and yet the show only scored a C. It's like the low wrestling industry rating is killing show ratings. Thing is, with my promotion which is a small one, I am getting really good ratings for the most part, and seem to be getting no penalties. I have very little Mainstream in my product settings, but am still entertainment based though tilted more to Modern and Risque. So does the state of the wrestling industry actually affect show ratings? If so, that would explain it since it's at E right now. I didn't think it did, but I could have been wrong. After running several shows, it all but confirms that the low wrestling industry rating does indeed affect individual segment ratings greatly, but again, I'm not certain. So any clarification would be appreciated.[/QUOTE] Besides those match ratings... what are the angle ratings getting? I don't believe you can see them in a computer generated show, but if you're playing two player, you should be able to look at TNA's i would think? Is it possible you're angles are tanking the final grade (tanking is relative, what i mean is the angle grades aren't as high as the match grades and threfore drag the whole show down)?

[chris caulfield]

I think that's perfectly fine and it's quite realistic. Just because you put a very over worker against another doesn;'t automatically make it an A* in real life so it shouldn't in the game.

[Anubis]

This is happening [i]constantly[/i], though. I'm not even talking about the final show grade, I'm talking about the individual segment ratings for matches and some angles. [QUOTE=Adam Ryland;318894]No, it does not.[/QUOTE] Well then, something weird is going on then. The other player, running an entertainment-based promotion, is using workers with excellent skills, A and A* popularity, and A and A* momentum, yet still barely able to hit B-, B, or B+ most of the time. This is a constant thing. Only a few of the matches have had appropriate ratings based on what I've seen and booked myself. Brock Lesnar against Chris Jericho and Brock Lesnar against Sting are the only matches that seem capable of getting even an A; every other combination of people with A popularity and good skills is getting what can only be described as complete crap in segment ratings. I'm not even considering the final show ratings, those aren't a problem, it's just the individual match and angle ratings. Here are the numbers I counted for these matches: Out of [B]20[/B] matches that absolutely should have gotten B+ or A minimum based on the skills and popularity involved, only [B]5[/B] actually did. This is not an isolated incident. In fact, I even switched product settings around and tested several different things in an attempt to figure it out, and it always comes up the same. The people with A and A* popularity simply are not getting even decent ratings. I've done the same thing on my own Death of the Territories game and I can routinely get B+ and A without much difficulty (only A* seems to elude me sometimes, but I guess that's to be expected so it's a moot point); this is with people [i]less[/i] popular than those being used by the second player in TNA at the moment and in a promotion with [i]far[/i] less popularity, so me getting better ratings with MACW (in Death of the Territories, which is Cult) than the other player is getting with the vastly superior TNA (from Death of the WWE where it's the top dog) is just befuddling. Again, it doesn't seem to affect my promotion at all, but since mine is Small and using far less popular workers, it's not a good comparison (I'm playing on a harder difficulty against the other player). That's the weirdest part is that with [i]my[/i] promotion in this game, I'm getting no problems whatsoever, my workers do just fine and put on ratings as expected pretty much every time. So this only seems to be affecting the other player (TNA) in terms of individual segment ratings. Now bad ratings with Kurt Angle I understand since I'm pretty sure (correct me if I'm wrong, Adam) that having poor physical condition will kill match ratings (he has E+ or D- conditions), but that's only a couple of the samples, the rest pretty much all have people with at least B+ physical conditions, several A and A* conditions, so that isn't causing the problems. There is also neutral chemistry with about 90% of the samples, so that ain't doing it either. In fact, now that I look closer at it, this problem is affecting the computer-controlled WWE as well. People with B+ popularity and good skills are struggling to get C+ and B- match ratings. They have only had four B ratings, three of which involved Triple H, and this is nearly three months of shows. So something is amiss. The other player and the computer can't get good match ratings hardly at all, and while it's not affecting me (at least not yet), I would rather not see the computer and the other player dealing with this stuff because I have no clue what's going on. Is there any other factor that could cause this? Entertainment fans are numerous all over the place, wrestling industry is at E and rising, Loyalty and Young Lions is active all over the world, but there are 3800+ workers in the database and it moves very slowly even on my monster computer. Let's see, other than that . . . Worker skills and popularity is damn good, momentum is super high, storylines are doing fine, advanced booking is being used all around, people are in good shape except for Kurt Angle . . . That's all I can think of. I even tried booking a card for the other player using my tried and true methods for getting at least a "good enough" rating from my games where I can routinely succeed at this stuff, still nothing. It's like playing an entirely different game. Any help would be appreciated, I'd like to nip this mystery in the bud.

[Moe Hunter]

These things just happen sometimes. In my promotion I can never get a good 3v3 match with my most over guys, but if I chuck some midcard-level women into a 3v3 eye candy match, it rates well. Marc DuBois vs Matt Hardy gets A* for me, and B- for my friend who runs a very similar place. Vice versa when he runs Mr Kennedy vs Joey Minnesota it does much better than when I do. These things just happen. The industry is curently E and falling in my game, and I'm still putting on consistent A* shows.

[Anubis]

There still has to be a reason. It's not like the match ratings are random, after all. There are constants. In an entertainment-based promotion, you can guarantee that two workers with F- popularity will not get an A* match or angle. On the flip side, people with A or A* popularity can safely be expected to never hit B or B- or lower without either screwing up or having bad chemistry, and as far as I can tell, neither of these applies in this case. Everything is kosher as far as the visible and identifiable variables are concerned. This is a consistant problem where it seems almost impossible for all but one pair to put on good ratings, and even that pair only doesn't always succeed. The reason this is a problem is because there is no visible solution to it, meaning the game can't go on. If the ratings keep being grades below the workers, eventually the promotion's popularity will just completely tank with no way to get it back up because the ratings keep being so bad. Also, I've never before seen this happen in my dozens of times playing CV and DOTT, so it presents mystery that seems unsolvable. Still, there must be a solution, or the game is pretty much over since a game is no fun if a person does badly regardless of effort. We're not talking about one isolated incident like some of the times I've come on here griping, we're talking about a consistent state of terrible ratings over the course of nearly three game months, almost every single show. You don't see the problem with it? I mean, I could just ignore it and go on since my promotion is doing well at the moment consistently (just hit E+ popularity in my region), but I would feel bad. My wife is the second player and I want her to be able to have fun; we bought a second copy of the game specifically to be able to play this two player game. A game's no fun if you can't do well no matter what you do. I know I usually blow things out of proportion and I'm really sorry about that, but this time is different I swear it on my life, this isn't like the other times I've brought stuff up, this is completely different.

[Moe Hunter]

Reading your other post fully now (before I only had time to skim), there's a couple of things I have to point out: 1. Computer controlled promotions getting low ratings is simply something that happens. The game isn't super hard as far as beating competition goes. Also, compound that a lot of mods put WWE workers with less skills than they should because of the "WWE Style", but fail to realise that that is covered by product settings anyway. 2. 3,800 workers? You'd never catch me running a game like that. Way too much loading involved and really just a whole lot of extra news that I won't be interested in anyway. 3. Mind if I ask why you needed a second copy of the game to play 2 player? Unless your wife doesn't live with you, it just seems to me like a bunch of unnecessary time wasted sending the data files between two computers. Anywho, yeah I see your problem, but really I think that it comes down to two things: Product settings and how they match your roster, and Destiny. I don't recall if it's been confirmed either way, but to me it seems like there's a Promotion Destiny as well as workers, determining to an extent what kind of booking works out. I could be way off, but like I said before, running the exact same match in two (even three at one point) different promotions with remarkably similar products in the same game has yielded very different results for me.

[Adam Ryland]

Could be morale, fatigue, poor refereeing, poor announcing ... there's hundreds of things that go into a match rating. If it's just "sure-thing A grade matches" getting B grades, it's not even a particularly big penalty that is being incurred, so it doesn't need to be a big problem causing it. I'd suggest you systematically look at the data available and look for patterns, hints or anomolies. It certainly wouldn't be a bug if it's isolated to one player and is consistent.

[Anubis]

Oh, I know, I'm not suggesting that it's a you-know-what this time around either. If that were the case, it'd be affecting [i]my[/i] promotion as well, which it's not, and thus eliminates that. Basically, I'm trying to figure out what could be causing this for her sake. I have an easy time getting good ratings, only having trouble with getting perfect ratings. She's having trouble all around. So I checked the differences between my DOTT game with MACW and her stuff in TNA in our game. I did notice a few things, and I suppose you can tell me if this makes a big difference. I previously thought this would only mean slight differences in ratings, but I could be way off. First off, my MACW referees have B and above skill, while her TNA referees have everywhere from A to C-. My MACW announcer has A* while her TNA announcer has like C-, though we both have good colour commentators. Another thing is that her TNA roster is so big and covers many vastly different styles and skills sets, and while all high, are spread out; most of my MACW has good Rumble skills on top of other skills, and all match up fairly evenly in terms of styles. Lastly and certainly not least, while both are entertainment-based, her TNA product is all Mainstream but also has Modern set to Medium while my MACW product is all about Traditional and Mainstream with no Modern at all. Still, her TNA roster is vastly superior in terms of popularity and even in terms of skill, just spread out amongst different stats compared to my MACW roster. My IWF roster in the two player game, I have a referee with B skill, and my announcer and road agent are just as good as her announcer and road agent, the difference being I am at E+ popularity and putting on D ratings on average. The last variable at large is physical condition. I do have one person who gets unusually low ratings, that being Rick Martel, but his body condition is sitting at C. So knowing all that information, do you see anything that could very likely hurt match ratings? She has no problem putting on good angle ratings, only matches. Also, is C condition in any body part pretty much when match ratings start to suffer?

[Adam Ryland]

The awful announcer would seem the likely cause.

[Moe Hunter]

Yeah, there's definitely a difference between the two promotions just in size that affects how elements affect ratings from what I can see. If you both have C- announcers, well that would be a great asset to an E+ promotion, but a hinderance to a B+ promotion. Personally I'd suggest getting her a much better announcer (see if you can shake one loose from WWE - they always have more than the game needs them to), and fire the less than stellar referees. I run my global promotion with one referee, one announcer (two colour guys) and one road agent, no problems at all. Oh and by the way - kudos on having a wife who's willing to play TEW, that's huge. I've only just found myself a girl who's really into Third Eye Blind, which is "my thing".