Blacklisting

[Akki]

I'm not really sure why I suddenly remembered this, but I remember reading in Eddie Guerrero's book that he was blacklisted by some promoter in Mexico, making it pretty much impossible to work anywhere in the country. I don't remember the details or much more after that, but I think this might be a good concept to have in TEW08. Let's say you have a worker who constantly shows up late, misses shows, and so on. You get sick of it and fire them. But when you fire them, you can also have the option to Blacklist them. If you do that, there's a good chance of a Hatred relationship happening. What Blacklisting does is pretty much informing other promotions (for game purposes, let's say it only applies to promotions at your level or smaller) that the worker shouldn't be hired. If a promotion chooses to hire the worker, they could take a drop in prestige, and run the risk of losing Working Agreements with other promotions who have the worker on the Blacklist. On the other hand, the worker could be really skilled or really over, and the promotion would get them for pretty cheap, since they would be almost desperate for work. The worker could also develop a loyalty relationship to the Owner/Booker. Blacklisting a worker would also have side effects. If you do it for no reason, like just out of spite, and someone else comes to the worker's support, you could drop some prestige. Also, if the worker has other contracts, the other feds/bookers might not appreciate you Blacklisting one of their workers. A worker wouldn't stay on the Blacklist forever. If they spend a long time out of work or out of the range of the promotions who have him on their Blacklist (meaning either at a higher level, or in another country), or if he proves that he has changed (this has to do with the new Personality feature) in one of the promotions who have him on their Blacklist by showing a good track record of not missing shows, he will be off of the Blacklist. Any promotion would be able to Blacklist a worker. Also, you could have a button on one of the screens to check your Blacklist. It would be like the ultimate form of discipline, and could really change someone's personality (for the better or worse). It should also happen fairly rarely, as I haven't heard of it happening very often in real life. Having the penalties for doing it should stop it from happening a lot.

[Jouzy]

I think the idea's good but also believe that it should be decided by the AI and not the user.

[Akki]

[QUOTE=Jouzy;380015]I think the idea's good but also believe that it should be decided by the AI and not the user.[/QUOTE] I think that it would be done by both the AI and the user. All penalties and benefits would apply to both.

[Jouzy]

I just think it could be used to much by the User, and whilst it IS your own game, giving the AI the decision would not only make it more 'fair' but be another 'spanner in the works' if you were an indy company and one of your guys were blacklisted, especially if it was a top guy.

[darthsiddus2]

excellent suggestion Akki. for example if you have a worker who fails a drug test and has been terminated because of it, blacklisting can warn any promotion he's a juicer and should be cautious

[DanielW4444]

This can pretty much be done by having the owner set to hatred with a certain worker. As for the part about warning other promotions, that goes against the concept of competition. If I have a guy that inst reliable, I dont want my rival to find out about it and not sign him, I want them to get him and be stuck with him

[Akki]

You could use it in different ways, though. Let's say another promotion really needs a worker and hired that guy. They'll lose prestige, which would be good for you. It's more than just warning other promotions, it's punishing a worker. Let's say a star misses the biggest show of the year, and this isn't the first time they've missed a show. You can fire them, and blacklist them. It could ruin their career, like they ruined your show. Also, as for wanting your rival to get the worker and be stuck with them... I think if it was someone really skilled or over, you would benefit more if the rival didn't have them at all, than if they did and the guy missed a few shows.

[DanielW4444]

[QUOTE=Akki;380469]You could use it in different ways, though. Let's say another promotion really needs a worker and hired that guy. They'll lose prestige, which would be good for you. It's more than just warning other promotions, it's punishing a worker. Let's say a star misses the biggest show of the year, and this isn't the first time they've missed a show. You can fire them, and blacklist them. It could ruin their career, like they ruined your show. Also, as for wanting your rival to get the worker and be stuck with them... I think if it was someone really skilled or over, you would benefit more if the rival didn't have them at all, than if they did and the guy missed a few shows.[/QUOTE] Wrestlers dont have prestige though, they have overness... but I dont see how a no show would drastically alter that. If a wrestler no shows, you already can fire them, isnt that the punishment? If they no showed enough to warrant being fired, it would hurt my rival more than it hurt me.

[Akki]

I'm saying that the promotion will lose prestige for hiring a guy who has been blacklisted. And like I said before, this would be like the ultimate punishment, worse than firing. I don't understand what you mean in the third statement.

[jgriff3029]

Blacklisting would work in "Territorial Mods" like Death of the Territories". It was semi-common for an NWA member to blacklist a worker. The workers only option would then be the "outlaw" territories. However, I don't think blacklisting would work in the modern system. Rivial promoters wouldn't avoid a guy because some other own "blacklisted" him. Infact, they may be more likely to hire him. Not to mention that most fans wouldn't even know about a "blacklist", only the smart fans. I don't think this would be enough fans to justify a drop in prestige.

[DanielW4444]

[QUOTE=Akki;380508]I'm saying that the promotion will lose prestige for hiring a guy who has been blacklisted. And like I said before, this would be like the ultimate punishment, worse than firing. I don't understand what you mean in the third statement.[/QUOTE] Why would a promotion lose prestige for hiring a guy another promotion didnt like? By that logic, I could fire everyone I didnt want, blacklist them and then it hurt the promotions that picked them up. What I was saying was: If a wrestler no shows my promotion enough to hurt my promotion to the point where I have to fire him, he will do more harm than good for a rival promotion.

[Akki]

[QUOTE=DanielW4444;380519]Why would a promotion lose prestige for hiring a guy another promotion didnt like? By that logic, I could fire everyone I didnt want, blacklist them and then it hurt the promotions that picked them up.[/quote] But you would lose a lot of prestige yourself for blacklisting guys that wouldn't deserve it. The promotion would lose prestige because the worker isn't on just one promotion's blacklist, but on others. The more blacklists the worker is on, the more prestige is lost. And there are opportunities to lose working agreements and even have wars start with promotions who have the worker on their blacklist. [QUOTE=DanielW4444;380519]What I was saying was: If a wrestler no shows my promotion enough to hurt my promotion to the point where I have to fire him, he will do more harm than good for a rival promotion.[/QUOTE] That really defends what the situation is, it's not that clear cut. Plus, they could benefit because the worker would be cheaper and may become loyal (out of desperation from work after being blacklisted).

[Michael Wayne]

[QUOTE=DanielW4444;380519]Why would a promotion lose prestige for hiring a guy another promotion didnt like? By that logic, I could fire everyone I didnt want, blacklist them and then it hurt the promotions that picked them up. [/QUOTE] instead of the promotion that hires him losing prestige for signing a blacklisted worker, why not have the worker lose overness for being blacklisted? Teddy Hart has been blacklisted from numerous feds and due to his reputation, any fed that signs him has to deal with his reputation as well.

[DanielW4444]

[QUOTE=Akki;380581]But you would lose a lot of prestige yourself for blacklisting guys that wouldn't deserve it. The promotion would lose prestige because the worker isn't on just one promotion's blacklist, but on others. The more blacklists the worker is on, the more prestige is lost. And there are opportunities to lose working agreements and even have wars start with promotions who have the worker on their blacklist. That really defends what the situation is, it's not that clear cut. Plus, they could benefit because the worker would be cheaper and may become loyal (out of desperation from work after being blacklisted).[/QUOTE] So the first promotion gets punished if they are the first to put someone on the blacklist. I dont see how promotions will go to war with each other or drop working agreements over a worker that one doesnt really like. What about situations like Jeff Jarrett, where he was "blacklisted" by the WWF even though he did nothing wrong, he just signed a deal with WCW?

[DanielW4444]

[QUOTE=Michael Wayne;380583]instead of the promotion that hires him losing prestige for signing a blacklisted worker, why not have the worker lose overness for being blacklisted? Teddy Hart has been blacklisted from numerous feds and due to his reputation, any fed that signs him has to deal with his reputation as well.[/QUOTE] the thing is, a worker typically isnt going to lose popularity because a promotion doesnt like him

[darthsiddus2]

think of it more like Dan Maft and Homicide where he basically sait he will not work in any promotion that hires Maft

[DanielW4444]

[QUOTE=darthsiddus2;380600]think of it more like Dan Maft and Homicide where he basically sait he will not work in any promotion that hires Maft[/QUOTE] thats a whole another topic right there

[darthsiddus2]

but its essentially the same thing.

[Akki]

[QUOTE=DanielW4444;380587]So the first promotion gets punished if they are the first to put someone on the blacklist. I dont see how promotions will go to war with each other or drop working agreements over a worker that one doesnt really like. What about situations like Jeff Jarrett, where he was "blacklisted" by the WWF even though he did nothing wrong, he just signed a deal with WCW?[/QUOTE] WWF and WCW were already at war, so yeah... And I don't think he was really blacklisted. Maybe War wouldn't be a good results, but maybe Hostility, or cancellation of agreements. I think that "doesn't really like" and Blacklisting are two different things, although the first could cause the second. A promotion would only get punished for Blacklisting if there's nothing substantial behind it, which could be revealed by another member of the promotion or some other reason. If you blacklist the worker just because you don't like them, when they've really done nothing wrong, and it comes out that you did that, you would get into some trouble. But if the worker really deserved it, nothing bad would happen to you, except maybe if the worker is employed by other promotions. [QUOTE=DanielW4444;380591]the thing is, a worker typically isnt going to lose popularity because a promotion doesnt like him[/QUOTE] I agree with this, but I just realized that there IS something like Prestige for wresters: Respect.

[lazorbeak]

I like the idea of a worker being able to lose respect because of poor behavior, and I'm curious how blacklisting could be applied, although it should be limited to promotions with at least a no-compete clause. And Jarrett wasn't blacklisted- he was unhappy that he was booked to lose to a woman, but agreed to appear in a pay per view match to lose the title even though his contract had expired and he had no interest in renewing it. It seems like to a certain extent blacklisting is simulated when Macho can't sign with WWE or Nemesis can't work for SWF, but I could see it apply in situations where a locker-room leader or member of the booking staff should be able to prevent a hiring because of some pre-existing relationship.

[Akki]

I think it's different with Macho Man, because of personal problems with Vince McMahon. I don't understand what you mean by limitting it to promotions with a no-compete clause. Because Blacklisting isn't something that legally prevents someone from being hired. It just makes it very hard for them.

[DanielW4444]

[QUOTE=lazorbeak;380637] And Jarrett wasn't blacklisted- he was unhappy that he was booked to lose to a woman, but agreed to appear in a pay per view match to lose the title even though his contract had expired and he had no interest in renewing it. [/QUOTE] yeah, he was. Thats why TNA exists, he couldnt get a job with the WWF. He also demanded a couple hundred thousand dollars to job to Chyna after his contract expired, thats why Vince blacklisted him

[Akki]

I think this is like the whole Loyalty to Promotion vs. Loyalty to Owner/Bookr thing. He wasn't Blacklisted, he just pissed off Vince. If he had actually been blacklisted, meaning that WWF would have come out and said that he shouldn't be hired by any promotion for some reason, he probably wouldn't be in wrestling anymore. That include WWA, where he wrestled after WCW but before (and during) TNA. I'm pretty sure that Jeff and Jerry didn't just start TNA so that Jeff could have somewhere to wrestle.

[Michael Wayne]

[QUOTE=DanielW4444;380591]the thing is, a worker typically isnt going to lose popularity because a promotion doesnt like him[/QUOTE] no, but he might if a bunch of promotions blacklist him. And how many fans dislike Teddy Hart because of among many reasons, his poor attitude and ability get himself banned from various promotions?

[T-Jay]

Why not try to simplify the whole thing by saying: - If a promotion head (you) blacklists a worker, Your promotion will be unable to hire said wrestler for say 12mths (sort of like a owner goal where you can't hire certain wrestlers). - Blacklisted workers would be more likely to talk trash about your promotion (Interviews etc in News & Media Section) and perhaps even put a spanner in negotiations with other workers until the 12mth expires. (This way you have a negative to blacklisting workers in the first place as we all know workers who leave a company will talk crap about them - Kurt Angle, Christian etc.) - Maybe a random case of losing some popularity depending on the success of blacklisted workers trash talk (specifically with regards to live/tv/ppv events - lose some of your crowd numbers due to media hype [adds the internet/net radio element we come across nowadays]) I'm sure there could be other consequences (for want of a better term). Also, any wrestler loyal to your promotion could talk to the media to try and back you in a media war with a blacklisted worker. Hope this helps.