justtxyank Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 If you had been WCW, how would you have used Bret Hart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinesxe Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Had him start up a 3 man group with one being a women like best, a partner named Hollywood Hulk Hogan and run around making croch chops the thing to do!!! I would have also named the group Regeneration CompleX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQI13 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Hey...I see what you did there! Provided you couldn't convince them to bring over Owen (like he wasn't able to in real life), and you're just dealing with Bret... I personally liked his version of the nWo, although the segment in which it was formed didn't come out as planned. But that was so far down the line from when he signed... When he signed there were rumors about him joining the nWo, and then there was the "Starrcade Un-Screwjob". I wouldn't have had him as the guest ref in that card. If anything, they could have done a "screwjob" finish, and have him leading that charge against that, seeing as that's what he had just gone through. That's probably what I would have done. I mean, they tried to cash in on the whole Screwjob angle and did it poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Immediate Main Event feud, with a 6 month run to the World Title. I can't remember who the big dogs were at the time, but I'd have him blaze through a bunch of them. Were the nWo in force? I'd have Bret kill those ex-WWF guys, lone wolf style. Bret was a MASSIVE deal post-screwjob, and showcasing and pushing the awesome talent of Bret was a way WCW could stick it to Vince and his sissy-boy Champion. As I'm a big Hart Foundation mark, I'm obviously biased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQI13 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 nWo was still around...Wasn't it Hogan vs Sting with the Screwjob that was imagined? And the day after the Screwjob, I remember the nWo and their 1 billion members singing the Canadian National Anthem to begin Nitro. I don't remember when he actually debuted, whether it was before Starrcade or ON Starrcade. Either way, I'd wait until January to begin the real push (especially if they cashed in on a screwjob angle at the PPV). Just on that alone, you could essentially live out the McMahon/Bret storyline with Bischoff replacing McMahon. I think that would be pretty compelling. If only I had a good mod for that era.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I'd go out and give Hart the programs he never really had in WWF. Sting as the top babyface champion, Hart as the #2 babyface: have him feud with Hogan, Savage and Nash and then set up a big face vs. face match with Sting in the Summer of 98 that's all about the Sharpshooter vs. the Scorpion Deathlock. Have Hart tease a heel turn but then somehow get screwed over by Flair and the Horseman, keeping him from winning the title and leading to a Hart vs. Flair program. But the biggest thing WCW did wrong is they wouldn't let Brett just get out there and wrestle. Not only did he not wrestle Starrcade 97, he barely wrestled at all for months and then they turned him heel and stuck him in the upper midcard, which is just ridiculous when you just signed one of the best wrestlers ever and paid him millions of dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justtxyank Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 I'd go out and give Hart the programs he never really had in WWF. Sting as the top babyface champion, Hart as the #2 babyface: have him feud with Hogan, Savage and Nash and then set up a big face vs. face match with Sting in the Summer of 98 that's all about the Sharpshooter vs. the Scorpion Deathlock. Have Hart tease a heel turn but then somehow get screwed over by Flair and the Horseman, keeping him from winning the title and leading to a Hart vs. Flair program. But the biggest thing WCW did wrong is they wouldn't let Brett just get out there and wrestle. Not only did he not wrestle Starrcade 97, he barely wrestled at all for months and then they turned him heel and stuck him in the upper midcard, which is just ridiculous when you just signed one of the best wrestlers ever and paid him millions of dollars. To be fair, the oft cited criticism that he didn't wrestle at Starrcade baffles me. He didn't join WCW until the middle of December and their was no logical match to give him. The whole card was booked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQI13 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I would contend that the fact that he didn't wrestle is fine (as you said, no real match ups)...but why be the guest ref in the Bischoff vs Zbyszko match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justtxyank Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 I would contend that the fact that he didn't wrestle is fine (as you said, no real match ups)...but why be the guest ref in the Bischoff vs Zbyszko match? Wasn't that match for control of Nitro or something? I can't remember, but I think it was. I do agree though that it was stupid. Honestly I thought he should have been the "special enforcer" for the Hogan/Sting match or heck, even a commentator. WCW then should have been much more blatant about nWOite Nick Patrick trying to screw Sting and Hart jumping from the announce table to make the save. Immediately lead into Hart getting mixed up in the nWo's struggles, setting up Hogan vs Hart at Superbrawl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattitudeV2 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 What would I do with Bret Hart in WCW? hmm.... Probably first make him the top face in the company ... Have him battle the NWO with his family(Including Owen) Have him beat Hogan at Starrcade for the title and then give him a couple month run with the gold... Then have him lose it to your fastest rising star. Have him be in a main stay in the main event till he retires... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justtxyank Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 What would I do with Bret Hart in WCW? hmm.... Probably first make him the top face in the company ... Have him battle the NWO with his family(Including Owen) Have him beat Hogan at Starrcade for the title and then give him a couple month run with the gold... Then have him lose it to your fastest rising star. Have him be in a main stay in the main event till he retires... Come on, let's be serious. He didn't join WCW until halfway through December, wasn't as over with WCW fans as WWF fans, and Sting had been built up to take down Hogan for a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 To be fair, the oft cited criticism that he didn't wrestle at Starrcade baffles me. He didn't join WCW until the middle of December and their was no logical match to give him. The whole card was booked up. I'm sorry, WHAAAAAA? The whole card was "booked up"? Randy Savage was a replacement sixth man in a match featuring the Big Boss Man, Scott Hall was doing absolutely nothing... Chris Jericho didn't appear on the card at all. I mean, is it so hard to book a mini-feud with a ****y midcarder in two weeks' time? Jericho comes out in early December and runs down Hart for being an embarrassment to Canada or whatever, then Hart shows up and sets up a six minute Starrcade squash that puts him on the freaking card. Mind you, this is the same show that decided 11 minutes to Bischoff vs. Larry Z and SEVENTEEN MINUTES to Lex Luger vs. Buff Bagwell. To not book Hart, probably one of the top three most over wrestlers in the world at that time, was just flat out stupid, and no amount of rationalizing makes the decision any less dumb. He may not have debuted until mid-December but everyone knew he was on the way from the first week of November on. That gives you tons of time to build up to a match with somebody in his "debut" where all he has to do is beat up a midcarder convincingly and let the audience give him a big reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justtxyank Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 I'm sorry, WHAAAAAA? The whole card was "booked up"? Randy Savage was a replacement sixth man in a match featuring the Big Boss Man, Scott Hall was doing absolutely nothing... Chris Jericho didn't appear on the card at all. I mean, is it so hard to book a mini-feud with a ****y midcarder in two weeks' time? Jericho comes out in early December and runs down Hart for being an embarrassment to Canada or whatever, then Hart shows up and sets up a six minute Starrcade squash that puts him on the freaking card. Mind you, this is the same show that decided 11 minutes to Bischoff vs. Larry Z and SEVENTEEN MINUTES to Lex Luger vs. Buff Bagwell. To not book Hart, probably one of the top three most over wrestlers in the world at that time, was just flat out stupid, and no amount of rationalizing makes the decision any less dumb. He may not have debuted until mid-December but everyone knew he was on the way from the first week of November on. That gives you tons of time to build up to a match with somebody in his "debut" where all he has to do is beat up a midcarder convincingly and let the audience give him a big reaction. Jericho was a nobody babyface (I think was still face) before Starrcade and had yet to really begin building himself into anything. Lex Luger was massively over still in WCW. Scott Hall was off the card because they were having problems with him. I see the desire to put Hart in a match, but I can definitely see the value in holding his in ring debut off to capitalize on it better. In the end, what would WCW have gained from Hart beating a scrub that nobody cared about at Starrcade? It would have done nothing for any storylines and WCW didn't need any help selling that event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQI13 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Wasn't that match for control of Nitro or something? I can't remember, but I think it was. I do agree though that it was stupid. Honestly I thought he should have been the "special enforcer" for the Hogan/Sting match or heck, even a commentator. WCW then should have been much more blatant about nWOite Nick Patrick trying to screw Sting and Hart jumping from the announce table to make the save. Immediately lead into Hart getting mixed up in the nWo's struggles, setting up Hogan vs Hart at Superbrawl. I believe it was for control of Nitro. Worst part about the Patrick refereeing in that title match was that it wasn't a fast count or anything. As I remember, people were confused by Hart's involvement, since it looked like a legit finish. Your idea is much better though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justtxyank Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 I believe it was for control of Nitro. I'm a Larry Legend mark (went to Nitro and did the ritual "Larry" chant at the beginning of the show), but man did I hate him getting back into the ring. Worst part about the Patrick refereeing in that title match was that it wasn't a fast count or anything. As I remember, people were confused by Hart's involvement, since it looked like a legit finish. Absolutely. It's a matter of much debate in fact. The prevailing theory is that Hogan either paid off, or just convinced, NP to "Botch" the fast count intentionally. Now, the two competing reasons are 1) Hogan was an egomaniac and wanted to preserve his own credibility and 2) Hogan was furious at Sting for being in crappy shape. We'll never really know, but that fast count situation really, REALLY screwed things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hive Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 WCW ****ed up big time. I would have capitalized on people having massive sympathy for him after the Montreal Screwjob and made him the second biggest babyface, next after Sting. I'd have Sting grab the world belt the way he did, only Nick Patrick actually making a fast count instead of that Hogan screwjob. I would then start a feud between Hart and Hogan culminating in a "loser leaves town" match where Hart wins and forced Hogan out (WCW kept him for too long anyway) - with Hart then turning heel and claiming leadership in the nWo, then having him feud with Sting and ultimately grabbing the belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I see the desire to put Hart in a match, but I can definitely see the value in holding his in ring debut off to capitalize on it better. In the end, what would WCW have gained from Hart beating a scrub that nobody cared about at Starrcade? It would have done nothing for any storylines and WCW didn't need any help selling that event. 1. They would have had a better show. 2. They would have established Hart as one of the top faces instead of dicking around with the "will he/won't he" heel turn that wasted months. 3. Most importantly, it would have cashed in on the fact that WWF potentially lost a lot of fans that wanted to see Hart in action, and WCW could've shown those fans that they didn't plan to horribly mismanage Hart. Starrcade isn't Wrestlemania: even if Sting/Hogan was guaranteed to do big business, putting Hart/Hall or Hart vs. ANY WWF alum would've attracted a lot of crossover business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hive Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Absolutely. It's a matter of much debate in fact. The prevailing theory is that Hogan either paid off, or just convinced, NP to "Botch" the fast count intentionally. Now, the two competing reasons are 1) Hogan was an egomaniac and wanted to preserve his own credibility and 2) Hogan was furious at Sting for being in crappy shape. We'll never really know, but that fast count situation really, REALLY screwed things up. Didn't both Hogan and Bischoff claim in an interview that they agreed upon it because they felt Sting was in way too bad shape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justtxyank Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 1. They would have had a better show. Fair enough. 2. They would have established Hart as one of the top faces instead of dicking around with the "will he/won't he" heel turn that wasted months. I know most people forget this, but Hart WAS established as a top face. His heel turn didn't happen until like March or something. 3. Most importantly, it would have cashed in on the fact that WWF potentially lost a lot of fans that wanted to see Hart in action, and WCW could've shown those fans that they didn't plan to horribly mismanage Hart. This is just a matter of opinion. They could have shown him being used correctly without a match, but I see why you feel this way. Starrcade isn't Wrestlemania: even if Sting/Hogan was guaranteed to do big business, putting Hart/Hall or Hart vs. ANY WWF alum would've attracted a lot of crossover business. If my memory serves, Starrcade 97 was WCW's biggest ppv draw ever.While they might have gained some crossover, I doubt it would have been huge. There's only so much they could do. They did big business on that without Hart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Final Countdown Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Immediate Main Event feud, with a 6 month run to the World Title. I can't remember who the big dogs were at the time, but I'd have him blaze through a bunch of them. Were the nWo in force? I'd have Bret kill those ex-WWF guys, lone wolf style. Bret was a MASSIVE deal post-screwjob, and showcasing and pushing the awesome talent of Bret was a way WCW could stick it to Vince and his sissy-boy Champion. As I'm a big Hart Foundation mark, I'm obviously biased. Pretty much exactly what I did when I played as WCW using the Montreal Aftermath mod for TEW. Sting emerged as the champion post-Starrcade, and Bret dispatched the nWo one-by-one, eventually leading up to a Hart/Sting title showdown at Bash at the Beach, where Bret won the title. I had plans to continue the feud off-and-on until Starrcade '98, where Sting would turn heel and screw Bret out of the title, but stopped playing that save so I could start up my ROH diary. WCW really, REALLY dropped the ball with Bret. Dude had all kinds of momentum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 They shouldn't have gone for a fast count at all they could have replicated the screwjob with Bischoff playing the McMahon role. Hogan locks in the deathlock Sting doesn't submit, Bischoff wants the bell to be rung (with mike) before it can be done Bret knocks him out cold. Match goes on with Bret as enforcer NWO try to aide Hogan Bret Beats em all off (debut Bulldog, Neidhart, Owen, Pillman if possible helping too.) Sting wins and is champion. Bret goes in the ring tension between Sting and Bret, Sting or Bret offers a handshake before concludes we go off the air. Then set up a program with Sting and Bret going after the NWO while having mutual tension, Which leads to the destruction of the NWO and a Hart vs Sting for the next Starcade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justtxyank Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 Brian Pillman was dead at this point and Owen couldn't get out of his contract. Anyway, the problem I have with some of these theories, and it makes me think you guys were WWF fans only at the time, is that Sting didn't need any help to beat Hogan, or the nWo. He was taking them all out, all the time. I don't think there was any need to have Starrcade become all about Bret Hart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinesxe Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 TBH I would book everything in WCW the same way they did back then. I mean they did everything right from my POV. Why would you do anything different I mean it's WCW and they must have been the most successful company in the history of the business. I mean they are still running shows everyweek under the WWE banner. Same borring replayed **** with a guys who's intials are the same as the hulksters and pulling the same Stroke like bull**** HHHogan was doing for years... So for those whose say WCW died in 01. I give to you WCW 2009 ala WWE!!! Same crappy programing week to week with the same bull**** *******s pulling strings back stage... Same show different name... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justtxyank Posted June 9, 2009 Author Share Posted June 9, 2009 LOL now that was a good post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Brian Pillman was dead at this point and Owen couldn't get out of his contract. Anyway, the problem I have with some of these theories, and it makes me think you guys were WWF fans only at the time, is that Sting didn't need any help to beat Hogan, or the nWo. He was taking them all out, all the time. I don't think there was any need to have Starrcade become all about Bret Hart. Actually I was a WCW fan at the time (kinda forced as was only one viewable in the Netherlands.) And I thought Sting rocked I couldn't see the ppvs unfortunatly or Thunder it was only Nitro. I thinkt the way I booked it wouldn't make Sting look weak at all just Bret overturning/preventing a screw not via "fast" count and then preventing further interference to make him look strong. And if WCW really wanted too they could have bought out Owen's and Pillman's contracts which might have prevented both their deaths. Simply by changing the timeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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