The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[20LEgend]

 

I keep walking around the house going to my self:

"Finally... He Rock has come back!" In my awful Dwayne Johnson impression, it was amazing...

[PoisonedSuperman]

Good way to turn Cena heel? Rock trash talking Cena and the fans cheering, isn't that a reason to turn on the fans?

[GhostDogg]

Ok,

believe it or not, this is Rock is the answer to both Cena and the WWE's prayers. I mean they have been trying to figure out for years how to turn Cena heel. I mean he was doing up the whole "Hulk Hogan" thing. Now that Rock is in the picture and they have beef in the past. I mean did yall see how QUICKLY they turned on Cena when Rock came out? I mean granted, when Cena was there he was one of the popular faces, now that Rock is back, I mean hes like in Muhammed Hassan Status.

 

If they were smart, they would turn Cena heel soon and capitalized on this.

[eayragt]

Holy... I know he's 38 but that's a baby compared to Batista. Hell, even if he just stays until WrestleMania next year and just wrestles at PPV's, hell yeah.

 

God, what a pop that was.

[PeterHilton]

Ok,

believe it or not, this is Rock is the answer to both Cena and the WWE's prayers. I mean they have been trying to figure out for years how to turn Cena heel. I mean he was doing up the whole "Hulk Hogan" thing. Now that Rock is in the picture and they have beef in the past. I mean did yall see how QUICKLY they turned on Cena when Rock came out? I mean granted, when Cena was there he was one of the popular faces, now that Rock is back, I mean hes like in Muhammed Hassan Status.

 

If they were smart, they would turn Cena heel soon and capitalized on this.

 

???

 

I sincerely doubt the WWE has 'been trying to figure out for years how to turn Cena heel.' There was never a reason to

 

Even when the mixed reaction he got was leaning toward the boo's, people still paid to see him. If anything, it made him more valuable because now people would pay to root for him and gainst him.

 

Unless The Rock is coming back to a full time schedule, then positioning him as having issues with both Miz and Cena is the perfect way to include him in the WM main event.

[GhostDogg]

I am stayed up to 11 pm Iraq time, to watch this. I am NOT going to lie...

it was well worth it.

 

I mean Holy SH*T that was a pop. I dont think I heard a Pop that loud since Stone Cold won the title at Wrestlmania vs Shawn Micheals...

 

aww memories....

[lazorbeak]

How would that be "smart"? Cena is the #1 babyface on the main roster. If Cena turned and feuded with the Rock, what does he do after Wrestlemania? Does he feud with Orton or Edge, the current #2 and #3 babyfaces? The guys he's worked hundreds of matches with over the past five years? The Undertaker is the only name I can think of he could work with that he doesn't already have extensive history with.

 

But even if you do Cena vs. Triple H, Cena vs. Undertaker, Cena vs. the Attitude era as a program that lasts until, say, Summerslam, you still have a pretty major problem: WWE doesn't have any babyfaces as good as John Cena. Orton isn't a great talker, so as the #2 face he doesn't have to come out and cut 10 minute live promos: does anyone see him being particularly successful at it if he was made the de facto top babyface? Who carries the brand as the top face if Cena is heel? Triple H? Edge? Some other 40 year old who works better as a heel? And if it's a new guy, who? John Morrison's a great athlete but WWE doesn't trust him with a live mic, Daniel Bryan is an amazing wrestler but he isn't a natural on the mic and doesn't have the look WWE crowds expect out of their top names. Do you turn Miz babyface or something? That's about the only option I can think of, and it doesn't make much sense, as his heel run is one of the freshest things WWE has right now.

 

I just don't see how turning your franchise babyface is suddenly a good idea because a guy that hasn't been part of the main roster in more than 5 years trash-talked him. I mean there's already a shortage of good babyfaces on WWE right now, so I don't see why turning your best babyface is a particularly good idea.

[GhostDogg]

I do see your point, now try and see mine for a moment.

 

Ok, basically put, Cena is getting STALE. Seriously. Now lets see some of the people that could go against him with pro's and cons.

 

1. Stone Cold Randy Orton: Pro's- hes an Anti hero face. Con. Hes the WWE's answer for Nyquil when it comes to thier promos.

 

2. Daniel Bryan: Pro's: He technically gifted and can make a good match with almost anyone. i.e. Ziggler, Miz, Dibiase

 

3. John Morrison: Pro's: Definately different and a breath of Fresh Air to the main event scene. Cons? Not as good on the microphone as his former tag Team partner.

 

4. R-Truth.......ARE YOU F'N SERIOUS? that was actually a joke.

 

I am sorry but its almost 1 am here. I guess the fact I am trying to make is, that the WWE is going to have to make some moves ...SOON. Because if they wanna keep Cena as a face, hes not going to stay that way for very long. Especially when Rock is in the picture. Dont beleive me? I have a perfect example...remember when Amy "Lita" Dumas cheated on her boyfriend Matt Hardy with Edge, and Hardy was the one that got fired? Ok they did a story line where Lita was the Face and Trish Stratus was the heel. It was a complete role reversal. Even though Lita was portrayed as a face, she was treated as a heel. I have a funny feeling Cena will be treated the same way...

 

 

"I maybe wrong, but I SERIOUSLY doubt it."

 

Sinister Minister.

[PoisonedSuperman]

I was just thinking that Cena could be come the trash-talking, attitude era guy that the fans "wanted", you know telling them that its what they asked for, blah, blah, blah.

[Fantabulous]

As the C&P sites will soon claim as their big news, it is The Undertaker vs, Triple H at Wrestlemania. And it very well might be Streak vs. Career.

[lazorbeak]

Honestly I don't agree that he's stale. Now that he's not doing marine salutes and wrestling for the title every week, he's been able to demonstrate why he's the best and most valuable babyface the company has. He carried the majority of the Nexus feud in a storyline that only obliquely had anything to do with the belt, and it ended up being probably the biggest storyline of the year. But your point about people for heel Cena to feud with just re-enforces my position, namely: there is nobody worth seeing him feud with if he turned heel. There are no other strong babyfaces on Raw right now in a position to work with him, and he's worked with Edge and Orton a billion times. I mean do we finally get the return feud of Cena/Big Show that we've all been clamoring for?

 

Also, how is the Lita situation similar at all? Lita wasn't stale, she cheated on her insecure, drama queen, marginally talented boyfriend, he got fired for being an insecure drama queen (the scar will become the symbol!), and she got heat for it. Which happened after a solid year of working with Trish where Trish was the heel. I guess I'm not sure what the two things have in common.

[PeterHilton]

I do see your point, now try and see mine for a moment.

 

Ok, basically put, Cena is getting STALE. Seriously. Now lets see some of the people that could go against him with pro's and cons.

 

1. Stone Cold Randy Orton: Pro's- hes an Anti hero face. Con. Hes the WWE's answer for Nyquil when it comes to thier promos.

 

2. Daniel Bryan: Pro's: He technically gifted and can make a good match with almost anyone. i.e. Ziggler, Miz, Dibiase

 

3. John Morrison: Pro's: Definately different and a breath of Fresh Air to the main event scene. Cons? Not as good on the microphone as his former tag Team partner.

 

4. R-Truth.......ARE YOU F'N SERIOUS? that was actually a joke.

 

I am sorry but its almost 1 am here. I guess the fact I am trying to make is, that the WWE is going to have to make some moves ...SOON. Because if they wanna keep Cena as a face, hes not going to stay that way for very long. Especially when Rock is in the picture. Dont beleive me? I have a perfect example...remember when Amy "Lita" Dumas cheated on her boyfriend Matt Hardy with Edge, and Hardy was the one that got fired? Ok they did a story line where Lita was the Face and Trish Stratus was the heel. It was a complete role reversal. Even though Lita was portrayed as a face, she was treated as a heel. I have a funny feeling Cena will be treated the same way...

 

 

"I maybe wrong, but I SERIOUSLY doubt it."

 

Sinister Minister.

 

What's funny is that I actually agree Cena is stale, but your argument is pretty weak.

 

It's all conjecture based on the assumption that The Rock is going to work an extended program with Cena. No one knows that. And IIRC amp pointed out that if they want to do Cena vs Rock at WM next year all they would need is a months lead up which would requir no turn

 

Again...*I* agree Cena is stale. But based onthe type of product the WWE has now I don't think the majority of fans agree with me. And if they didn't pull the trigger with the Nexus storyline (which really would have been perfect) then i don't see it happening.

[PoisonedSuperman]

This is what I would like to see done with "The Streak", now obviously its too late to do what I'm going to say but this is what I would of liked or would like to see in the future.

 

A big menacing young guy coming up to the roster and just destroying people, sending them to the hospital, breaking bones, week after week. Maybe getting suspended, or fined and DQ'd often. I would like him to be taking out a big star (Kane?) only for the lights to go off and The Undertaker to come out and save the star setting up the fued.

 

During the build up of The Streak vs. (the steak? if the guys never been pinned, The Monster? whatever) The heel states that he doesn't care about The Streak and he plans on taking something much greater, The Undertakers career. The man loses the match by DQ of course but absolutely destroys the Undertaker meaning he can keep his streak and the heel gets a rub. Undertakers off screen for a while, makes his come back builds towards a rematch and if he wants to fuss about it backstage then he can even win, it wouldn't matter. Maybe the heel would be champion by then, giving Taker one last run .

[PeterHilton]

As the C&P sites will soon claim as their big news, it is The Undertaker vs, Triple H at Wrestlemania. And it very well might be Streak vs. Career.

 

source?

 

Also, how is the Lita situation similar at all? Lita wasn't stale, she cheated on her insecure, drama queen, marginally talented boyfriend, he got fired for being an insecure drama queen (the scar will become the symbol!), and she got heat for it. Which happened after a solid year of working with Trish where Trish was the heel. I guess I'm not sure what the two things have in common.

 

I think he's showing that in some cases fans decide whether or not you turn a character

 

But it's been years since the negative reactions were that overt towards Cena. These days he gets - at worse - a mixed reaction at certain venues. Nets fans just blow it out of proportion.

[Fantabulous]

source?

 

The Observer Show on Meltzer's site was free so I listened and right at the end (52:52) he mentions that that's the match. He doesn't say that it the stipulation is in effect but he says that is the impression he has.

[ampulator]

But it's been years since the negative reactions were that overt towards Cena. These days he gets - at worse - a mixed reaction at certain venues. Nets fans just blow it out of proportion.

I agree... because almost all these fans have left to watch something else. I've said it before, they might not all go away at once. Some might go away now, some might make a deal about it... but eventually, if you push them away, they'll leave. Otherwise, why would they be so desperate about Wrestlemania? Even I'm a bit shocked they were worried. If it didn't concern them last year, it shouldn't concern them this year. They should have dealt with this a long, long time ago. To admit it just now, they were ignoring it and they were genuinely oblivious to it. Neither conclusion means something good.

[lazorbeak]

I think he's showing that in some cases fans decide whether or not you turn a character

 

But it's been years since the negative reactions were that overt towards Cena. These days he gets - at worse - a mixed reaction at certain venues. Nets fans just blow it out of proportion.

 

Is that what he was trying to say? I guess I thought he was making some point about staleness. Also I hate that example because he framed it like WWE management cut Hardy loose because Lita slept with Edge, not because Hardy is an incredibly insecure crybaby who went to the wrestling media (such as it is) drawing attention to himself as someone who had been wronged. And it still didn't get him over as a solo star, it just made Edge a better heel.

[ampulator]

Is that what he was trying to say? I guess I thought he was making some point about staleness. Also I hate that example because he framed it like WWE management cut Hardy loose because Lita slept with Edge, not because Hardy is an incredibly insecure crybaby who went to the wrestling media (such as it is) drawing attention to himself as someone who had been wronged. And it still didn't get him over as a solo star, it just made Edge a better heel.

Actually, Hardy wasn't being a baby about it. His reaction was perfectly understanble. You have to at least admit this. Now, was it good idea to react they way he did? Of course not. Was it completely, absolutely, understanble, if not rational or reasonable? Yes.

[lazorbeak]

Actually, Hardy wasn't being a baby about it. His reaction was perfectly understanble. You have to at least admit this. Now, was it good idea to react they way he did? Of course. Was it completely, absolutely, understanble, if not rational or reasonable? Yes.

 

It was rational to run to the media and get himself fired, then try to drum up sympathy for months only to go back into a slightly increased role six months down the road? We have very different definitions of "rational."

 

He constantly fed the story and made himself into a victim if not a hero for "intercepting" secret text messages. AKA he went through her phone and found something, and his sense of betrayal was so strong that in his grief he started using his WWE-sponsored blog to talk about his real life personal issues until he got fired.

 

I mean remember the time Savage and Elizabeth broke up and Savage responded by whining to every media outlet who would listen about how wronged he was? No?

 

Yes, getting yourself fired because your "soul mate" cheated on you while you were not on the road together is a pretty immature thing to do. And Matt has shown multiple times since then how exactly in character that is for him.

[PeterHilton]

I agree... because almost all these fans have left to watch something else.

 

their actual number of viewers has dropped in recent years. They just don't buy PPVs

 

Actually, Hardy wasn't being a baby about it. His reaction was perfectly understanble. You have to at least admit this. Now, was it good idea to react they way he did? Of course. Was it completely, absolutely, understanble, if not rational or reasonable? Yes.

 

Huh??? were you trying to say "Of course not" as in:

 

Now, was it good idea to react they way he did? Of course NOT.

 

And yes his reaction was reasonable but lazor is right that all it really did was make Edge a better heel. All of Hardy's failures can be seen in the fact that he was handed the hottest storyline of the year, a situation where very fan in the arena was behind him, and all he could do is deliver a series of flat uninspired promos that made anyone who watched realize that Edge was 10 times the talent Hardy was.

[ampulator]

their actual number of viewers has dropped in recent years. They just don't buy PPVs

 

 

 

Huh??? were you trying to say "Of course not" as in:

 

Now, was it good idea to react they way he did? Of course NOT.

 

And yes his reaction was reasonable but lazor is right that all it really did was make Edge a better heel. All of Hardy's failures can be seen in the fact that he was handed the hottest storyline of the year, a situation where very fan in the arena was behind him, and all he could do is deliver a series of flat uninspired promos that made anyone who watched realize that Edge was 10 times the talent Hardy was.

 

Sorry. I was just rushing a bit. I'll change it to "not".

 

But my point is, it was understanble. But so what if he "dropped the ball"? He never was able to handle the ball to begin with. Giving it to him was a mistake. I like Matt Hardy, but he was never able to "put it together". He had the skill, the look, the "it" factor, and the push... but it was never able to combine it together. And this was before he was handed the opportunity. This wasn't going to change.

[PeterHilton]

Sorry. I was just rushing a bit. I'll change it to "not".

 

No worries. I kinda figured thats what you were saying and I tend to agree.

 

It probably wasn't a good or smrt way to react, but it was understandable

[Fantabulous]

All of Hardy's failures can be seen in the fact that he was handed the hottest storyline of the year, a situation where very fan in the arena was behind him, and all he could do is deliver a series of flat uninspired promos that made anyone who watched realize that Edge was 10 times the talent Hardy was.

WWE could have helped things by not booking the first match of the feud to have Edge kick the **** out of Matt and the referee stop it in less than five minutes. Not exactly the stuff that avenging heroes are made of.

[ampulator]

WWE could have helped things by not booking the first match of the feud to have Edge kick the **** out of Matt and the referee stop it in less than five minutes. Not exactly the stuff that avenging heroes are made of.

Yeah, but Matt was still handed a top storyline. But like I said, he was never able to put it together.

[lazorbeak]

Just re-read some of Hardy's commentaries from 2005. It really shows the incredible immaturity of wrestling fans that they cheered for this loser and wanted him back. He did whatever he can to stay in the wrestling media, generally talking a bunch of **** about his ex that betrayed him and how she "reported back" to Edge, while he "reported back" to absolutely anyone that would listen.

 

Everyone betray him! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okaNIRTXvV0