The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[SaySo]

They also didn't let Melina in.=.

 

Wasn't Melina fired... like officially, not part of a storyline.

 

They have let former WWE people come to the arena. But not days after they are fired.

 

Plus if it was storyline firing of Melina, does she bring WWE revenue? Last Raw, i didn't hear any "We Want Melina" chants.

[Arrows]

Wait, he needs to win or he's a nobody.

 

Lashley lost to Cena in his last WWE PPV appearance, was he a nobody afterwards? Why did StrikeForce ink Lashley? Because he was a nobody or a guy high up the card.

 

To be fair, always saw Lashley as a joke. Ever since he spoke and his voice made him the least threatening man in the world, couldn't take him serious. That said, Lashley went on to do some stuff.

 

Wasn't really the point I was making. It's like Cena said on RAW, if Punk loses, he failed. Everything he did all of this for? For nothing. All gone, if he can't prove himself tonight. Punk NEEDS this win to solidify himself and his cause as something more than "Villain of the month" material.

 

If he loses, the push dies. The danger's gone. Cena's still god, and nothing can touch him. Cena only lost because of Vince, Punk's second rate, and why should he even be allowed to show up once he's not holding the belt hostage?

 

That's his bargaining chip. It's what makes this whole dream reality of a storyline we're living through possible. If he loses, he's got nothing to bank on.

[SaySo]

Not saying kids will often analyze this in-depth but Cena isn't really trying to be a hero or an anti-hero. He barely runs in to save anyone. Even in kayfabe reality, he's no more no less a rebel than Austin except he's not portrayed as a tweener and his moves are not weapons but rituals to show how his perseverance got him to the point of once again winning the title against another annoying heel.

 

Rock did say Cena was a phoney.

 

And you are right about Cena not running in to save someone. I remember Cena joining in with Austin in attacking Michael Cole.

 

Any paragon wouldn't do such a thing, even to an annoying character like Michael Cole.

[Gabbo]

Off the top of my head him attacking JJ Dillon. There were other run ins and attacks during his feud with the Horsemen too.

 

They also didn't let Melina in. Had she tried to force her way in like Cena must've to be backstage for those assaults, she would've been arrested.

 

What does that have to do with it? In any way? She got backstage and wasn't put in a cop car. Hence your point falls down.

 

90% of Sting's career. He is wrestling to make a living. Some big bad comes to try and end his career and disrupt his ability to make a living. He defends himself and stands up to them, proving that believing in yourself and not giving up can over come any odds.

 

That, is heroic.

 

Not really, most of Stings feud have had a personal attachment to them, not least the 4 Horsemen feud. How many top faces just wrestle emotionless and passion free. Going through the motions for a paycheck. Very few, all the best ones, Sting included made you feel there was animosity there and that it was much more than just a job.

[SaySo]

To be fair, always saw Lashley as a joke. Ever since he spoke and his voice made him the least threatening man in the world, couldn't take him serious. That said, Lashley went on to do some stuff.

 

Wasn't really the point I was making. It's like Cena said on RAW, if Punk loses, he failed. Everything he did all of this for? For nothing. All gone, if he can't prove himself tonight. Punk NEEDS this win to solidify himself and his cause as something more than "Villain of the month" material.

 

If he loses, the push dies. The danger's gone. Cena's still god, and nothing can touch him. Cena only lost because of Vince, Punk's second rate, and why should he even be allowed to show up once he's not holding the belt hostage?

 

That's his bargaining chip. It's what makes this whole dream reality of a storyline we're living through possible. If he loses, he's got nothing to bank on.

 

When you heard his voice? It never stopped Mike Tyson from being the baddest man on the planet.

 

WWE always push their number one guy like this. And when they do lose fair, it's when they are passing the torch. Go back to Hogan, to Austin, now to Cena. Only The Rock seems to be able to lose fair. Then again, i maybe wrong about that.

 

Austin didn't need to beat Bret Hart at Survivor Series 96, WrestleMania 97, etc. to become the number one guy. CM Punk could very well lose at SummerSlam 11 and still get put over by Stone Cold final match in the WWE in either WM 12 or 13. So you basically want CM Punk to get a John Cena god push so all the fans loving Punk now will turn on him like the Cena fans in 04-05 turned on Cena.

 

If Punk was a villian of a month, why is he headlining back to back PPVs? Here's an example of villian or flavor of the month = R-Truth.

[Arrows]

Off the top of my head him attacking JJ Dillon. There were other run ins and attacks during his feud with the Horsemen too.

 

 

 

What does that have to do with it? In any way? She got backstage and wasn't put in a cop car. Hence your point falls down. If anything you've strengthened my point by saying she forced her way backstaged and still didn't get arrested.

 

 

 

Not really, most of Stings feud have had a personal attachment to them, not least the 4 Horsemen feud. How many top faces just wrestle emotionless and passion free. Going through the motions for a paycheck. Very few, all the best ones, Sting included made you feel there was animosity there and that it was much more than just a job.

 

You completely overlook the part where all of that was brought on BY the Horsemen, BY Vader, BY every other heel he battled. Every time it was personal, it was because THEY decided to make it personal. Sting just fought through it to preserve himself and his way of making a living.

 

Never saw Sting randomly beat up JJ either. That'd be a strike against my point, and I can't remember every single wrestling show ever, so I'll give ya that one.

 

And Melina? WASN'T allowed backstage. Morrison was also jobbed out cleanly to a complete joke character they have no intentions of pushing because she showed up.

 

Yea. She was welcome.

[SaySo]

Not really, most of Stings feud have had a personal attachment to them, not least the 4 Horsemen feud. How many top faces just wrestle emotionless and passion free. Going through the motions for a paycheck. Very few, all the best ones, Sting included made you feel there was animosity there and that it was much more than just a job.

 

What did Sting do from 1999 to 2001? I only remember his feud with Vampiro. Can't remember anything else like "who did he put over?"

[Fantabulous]

Sting attacked JJ Dillon after Dillon threw champagne in his face, so it wasn't unprovoked.

[Arrows]

When you heard his voice? It never stopped Mike Tyson from being the baddest man on the planet.

 

WWE always push their number one guy like this. And when they do lose fair, it's when they are passing the torch. Go back to Hogan, to Austin, now to Cena. Only The Rock seems to be able to lose fair. Then again, i maybe wrong about that.

 

Austin didn't need to beat Bret Hart at Survivor Series 96, WrestleMania 97, etc. to become the number one guy. CM Punk could very well lose at SummerSlam 11 and still get put over by Stone Cold final match in the WWE in either WM 12 or 13. So you basically want CM Punk to get a John Cena god push so all the fans loving Punk now will turn on him like the Cena fans in 04-05 turned on Cena.

 

If Punk was a villian of a month, why is he headlining back to back PPVs? Here's an example of villian or flavor of the month = R-Truth.

 

Because they need to solidify Cena as the ONLY champ again, and that means Punk/Cena 2?

 

I don't want Punk to get a god push. I don't like god pushes. I wouldn't even mind if Rey somehow got himself an upset win on RAW, or if Alberto showed up to take it tonight.

 

You can't have Punk lose clean to Cena right now though. If he does, he has no claim to anything at all, and he vanishes into the mid card.

 

and Mike Tyson WAS the baddest man on the planet. He would knock you out. Lashley, not so much.

[SaySo]

And Melina? WASN'T allowed backstage. Morrison was also jobbed out cleanly to a complete joke character they have no intentions of pushing because she showed up..

 

Melina has no value to the WWE. She was future endeavored. So are they suppose to open the door for people they just fired. Name any other business that does it?

 

It's pretty much a joke watching something in the sake of nitpicking. That's why the WWE doesn't market to people like you because there is nothing they can do to satisfy you. I'm kinda have that mindset with the Los Angeles Lakers and Kobe Bryant. But guess if that suits your ego.

[Arrows]

What did Sting do from 1999 to 2001? I only remember his feud with Vampiro. Can't remember anything else like "who did he put over?"

 

To be fair, I mentioned pre-96 Sting. After the nWo, the rules changed entirely for Sting, and his hero character went the way of Batman. That said, the only memorable thing Sting did at the end was the Vampiro feud. Really thought Vampiro was on his way up during all of that.

 

Wasn't that point where Hogan went face, and Sting was "Driving the hummer" or whatever idiocy they were thinking up? It's a bad time for me in wrestling history, to the point where I'd rather watch current Cena than WCW in 2000, so I try to fuzz it all out of my memory.

[SaySo]

Because they need to solidify Cena as the ONLY champ again, and that means Punk/Cena 2?

 

I don't want Punk to get a god push. I don't like god pushes. I wouldn't even mind if Rey somehow got himself an upset win on RAW, or if Alberto showed up to take it tonight.

 

You can't have Punk lose clean to Cena right now though. If he does, he has no claim to anything at all, and he vanishes into the mid card.

 

and Mike Tyson WAS the baddest man on the planet. He would knock you out. Lashley, not so much.

 

The number one guy in the WWE always get god like pushes. Look at Stone Cold, how did he lost his first title reign? Did he get pinned cleanly? Look at Hogan's first title reign, how did that end, cleanly? It's bound to happen. It's the WWE. This isn't the NWA where heels are put over the faces in their big shows. This isn't ROH where they actually give their talents a decent reign.

 

I brought up Mike Tyson because you didn't like the sound of Bobby Lashley's voice. So you have a double standard here?

[Arrows]

Melina has no value to the WWE. She was future endeavored. So are they suppose to open the door for people they just fired. Name any other business that does it?

 

1. I'm actually pretty satisfied with the current WWE product, minus the Tag division, and the fact that R-Truth and Kofi Kingston will NEVER hold the main title of the show they're on because of their race. Kills 2 of the uppercard guys before they even get started.

 

2. That quote, was my point. Cena'd JUST been "fired". Yet he was backstage. If they didn't LET him in, he broke the law. If ANYONE tried to be backstage without being welcomed, they'd be arrested, cause it's, illegal.

[Fantabulous]

Wasn't that point where Hogan went face, and Sting was "Driving the hummer" or whatever idiocy they were thinking up? It's a bad time for me in wrestling history, to the point where I'd rather watch current Cena than WCW in 2000, so I try to fuzz it all out of my memory.

Hogan went face around the time of the hummer deal, I think. They teased Sting being the driver at least once but I don't think that aspect went anywhere; few things did in WCW at that point. They never did reveal who the driver was for that hummer although in the ill-fated Hogan/Kidman feud (that only hurt Kidman), Biscoff rammed a hummer into Hogan's limo while Hogan was in it, and the insinuation was it was Eric who had long ago been the driver but they never said one way or the other.

[Arrows]

The number one guy in the WWE always get god like pushes. Look at Stone Cold, how did he lost his first title reign? Did he get pinned cleanly? Look at Hogan's first title reign, how did that end, cleanly? It's bound to happen. It's the WWE. This isn't the NWA where heels are put over the faces in their big shows. This isn't ROH where they actually give their talents a decent reign.

 

I brought up Mike Tyson because you didn't like the sound of Bobby Lashley's voice. So you have a double standard here?

 

You can't help but take Tyson serious. Tyson could've LOOKED like a 10 year old girl, as long as he was still that powerful, you'd HAVE to take him serious. He was that dominant.

 

Lashley was a fairly average guy.

 

The pushes they gave the other main WWE guys also didn't completely devalue the ENTIRE roster. No one on RAW can be taken serious as a title contender except for Punk right now. They've booked them all to be miles beneath Cena.

[SaySo]

1. I'm actually pretty satisfied with the current WWE product, minus the Tag division, and the fact that R-Truth and Kofi Kingston will NEVER hold the main title of the show they're on because of their race. Kills 2 of the uppercard guys before they even get started.

 

2. That quote, was my point. Cena'd JUST been "fired". Yet he was backstage. If they didn't LET him in, he broke the law. If ANYONE tried to be backstage without being welcomed, they'd be arrested, cause it's, illegal.

 

 

Melina has no value to the WWE.

 

John Cena has value to the WWE.

 

That's why he was backstage.

 

Plus Melina was a real future endeavor.

 

Cena was a storyline future endeavor.

 

Hence, CM Punk latest storyline. It was a storyline "I'm leaving the WWE and taking the belt with me".

[SaySo]

Lashley was a fairly average guy.

 

Who is known for his WWE days when he joined StrikeForce.

 

There was a reason why he was booked as Donald Trump man to wrestle Umaga (who was picked by Vince McMahon).

 

He was put into that spot the same way the WWE put Brock Lesnar in a top spot in 2002.

 

Remember how StrikeForce was interested in bringing Batista? If Lashley was a fairly average guy, so is Batista.

[djthefunkchris]

Punk NEEDS the title to not be just another nobody after tonight. If he can't walk out right the belt, he's got nothing.

 

Wait, he needs to win or he's a nobody.

 

Lashley lost to Cena in his last WWE PPV appearance, was he a nobody afterwards? Why did StrikeForce ink Lashley? Because he was a nobody or a guy high up the card.

Perhaps he believes everything Cena says... IF you remember, Cena said to Punk "If you lose, your a one time fluke" or something similar. This was exactly what the Internet fans have been saying, and it's obvious Cena did it on purpose. He did it to enrage the Internet Fans, get everyone taking sides, and he's playing the "Heel" for them right now. Bassically, he's ensuring that if CM Punk has a loss, that CM Punk will NOT be a one time fluke, by saying exactly that. The Internet Fans truly believe that if Punk doesn't win, he will slip back down the card and not thought of again, and Cena is playing this perfectly in my opinion. We see it as him being cool, but Cena hater's probably hated hearing him say that, and probably think since he said it, it actually confirms their belief... It's hillarious if you think about it... He's been doing it the whole time Punk has been their "voice".

This is why it's best to ignore stuff like these. If the guy's only point is that you are a Cena hater throwing back mud at him won't make your point much clearer.

I haven't said that at all, myself. I've gave him example's, links, etc. I believe I even seen what really bothered him about the situation he's explaining, and low and behold, I believe most of us agree with him. We just don't agree with the things he's brought up as a measure to not like it.

I think a more valid criticism to your comment is how Cena's current character despite turning face is still an extension of a heel who is also a bad rapper that gets constantly poked fun of by both heels and faces. The role message Cena is sending is not that you should do what he does.

His message that he gives, over and over and over, is never give up. Not a bad message really..... Don't give up on School, Don't give up on your team, don't give up on life, etc... Can be good for almost any scenario.

 

Hustle. Loyalty. Respect. If you analyze those words.

That's a saying, but his message is still never give up. Part of the reason I imagine the book him in match's so badly most of the time (In my opinion it's bad, not saying everyone thinks that way).

 

Hustle is a message that you should always persevere in your dreams.

 

Hustle is notoriously known for working hard at making a living.... It can be translated alot of ways, to include stealing, buying small, selling large, etc... But if I was to compare someone as a Hustler here on this sight, I would say Remi is a Hustler... Adam Ryland is a Hustler. This is the definition he means, and most American Kids would understand this.

Loyalty is a message that you should never forget the ones who supported you through thick and thin and you shouldn't disappoint them or change just because the world seemingly hates you for who you are.

You got this one right.

 

Finally, respect is all about doing things with principle. Whether it be to only poke fun at people who try to push your buttons or it's about going dirty only on people who plays dirty.

It's also about respecting your peers, etc... Like when he says he respects CM Punk (even before he become a Face). Like when HHH Said he respects Randy Orton, because Randy stands up and fights like a man, not crying about it like Christian, etc.

None of the message Cena sends as a role model shows that he is suppose to be a paragon. If anything, he's more of a poser character. A man who will do things the way he wants to including wearing things he wants and executing things the way he does regardless whether it wins him a popularity contest.

He's a "Hero", bassically. A "Do-Gooder". He can be Superman or Batman, but he's going for the "Greater Good".

Not saying kids will often analyze this in-depth but Cena isn't really trying to be a hero or an anti-hero. He barely runs in to save anyone. Even in kayfabe reality, he's no more no less a rebel than Austin except he's not portrayed as a tweener and his moves are not weapons but rituals to show how his perseverance got him to the point of once again winning the title against another annoying heel.

 

Cena has never portrayed being a rebel, at least not in my opinion. Whomever said he was more like The Rock in the corporate thing, and Punk like Austin... I think they nailed what's going on here. I believe that's how it's coming off moreso then anything else anyone has said (including myself). Never thought of that till it was said, whomever said it, Kudos to you for getting me to see the comparison.

 

Far as children are concerned, most are impressionable. You have to guide them through things, and let them know what is wrong from right. You do that, they will endure. Most children go wrong outside of the "home", not inside (unless their parents are ignoring them to do drugs, deal, etc... and that happens as well). Do as I say, not as I do, works to an extent though, so even in those circumstances you could find halfway decent parents.

 

I live in a messed up neighborhood, where they will steal from their own neighbor's, even steal from people not doing as well as themselves. It doesn't make much sense, but these kids are taught this by others, not on their own. Myself, I kept my child inside, and I wish I didn't feel I had to... but if his friends wanted to see him, they knew he wasn't allowed past my eyesight... Meaning I let him outside, but he couldn't go far. Now that he's grown, I can see the environment I put him in has worked very well. He's his own "man" now. He's a big guy too, around 6'6", maybe a bit taller. He was never a bully, and stopped bullies in his school from messing with the smaller students. All the teacher's loved him. He had his problems, but he dealt with them well.

 

All I'm trying to say, and it's mainly to the younger folks on here that might be planning a family.... Is you have to realise that your going to be the biggest influence in your kids life, if you let yourself be. Explain to them the why and why not's, and they will be fine. "Why won't Mom let me go over there? They are nice people!" "She's just being over protective of you, because she loves you so much, it would kill her if something happened to you. I know you know these people, but we don't. The only way we can know how they are is to get to know them, and we will if you think it's that important." "It's like when you wish she would stop smoking, because your worried they will hurt her. It's the same thing really." They understand more then you think.

[Arrows]

Melina has no value to the WWE.

 

John Cena has value to the WWE.

 

That's why he was backstage.

 

Plus Melina was a real future endeavor.

 

Cena was a storyline future endeavor.

 

Hence, CM Punk latest storyline. It was a storyline "I'm leaving the WWE and taking the belt with me".

 

Okay. Now, explain why they let Cena beat up the Nexus(And risk losing workers because of someone NOT under contract) weekly without breaking kayfabe.

[Teh_Showtime]

So Lashley was average size? He used to be in the military not to mention being extremely ripped and 260 pounds of pure muscle. He looked tougher than Tyson tbh.

[Arrows]

So Lashley was average size? He used to be in the military not to mention being extremely ripped and 260 pounds of pure muscle. He looked tougher than Tyson tbh.

 

In the world of professional wrestling, with guys like Show, Taker, Kane, Cena, Batista, and an endless list more?

 

Average. He also never completely dominated everything the way Tyson did. He won, what? The ECW title?

[SaySo]

Perhaps he believes everything Cena says... IF you remember, Cena said to Punk "If you lose, your a one time fluke" or something similar. This was exactly what the Internet fans have been saying, and it's obvious Cena did it on purpose. He did it to enrage the Internet Fans, get everyone taking sides, and he's playing the "Heel" for them right now. Bassically, he's ensuring that if CM Punk has a loss, that CM Punk will NOT be a one time fluke, by saying exactly that. The Internet Fans truly believe that if Punk doesn't win, he will slip back down the card and not thought of again, and Cena is playing this perfectly in my opinion. We see it as him being cool, but Cena hater's probably hated hearing him say that, and probably think since he said it, it actually confirms their belief... It's hillarious if you think about it... He's been doing it the whole time Punk has been their "voice".

 

Internet fans and the male demographics (teen and above) have always treated John Cena as a heel.

 

And the WWE never books for the internet fan. If they did that, they would be in the same spot as ROH (if they started listening to the internet fan at the start of the IWC). You book for your audience and the internet fan has quite different taste as a casual fan. Notice when the WWE took out the word "wrestling", did the casual fan react negatively as the internet fan?

 

I don't think CM Punk will slip down the card. Unless you believe a potential Stone Cold/CM Punk match at WrestleMania is slipping down. This is like majority of people in the IWC reacted to Christian losing his first World Heavyweight Champion to Orton back in April 2011. The reaction you get online is exaggerated. But damn, the WWE drop the ball with Christan. It wasn't like Christian won the title in a ladder match and force to defend it against another Super-Top WWE Face couple days later. If you were a patient internet fan, you could tried to look at the bigger picture. Edge injury change his heel turn and i personally like the route they went.

 

CM Punk loses at SummerSlam, he's going to be screwed by Triple H. Whoever wins, there will be something flaky about it, which is why they added HHH into the match. If Cena does get pinned cleanly tonight, then kudos because i want to see that personally. But based on the WWE history on booking their number one men, highly unlikely.

[djthefunkchris]

In the world of professional wrestling, with guys like Show, Taker, Kane, Cena, Batista, and an endless list more?

 

Average. He also never completely dominated everything the way Tyson did. He won, what? The ECW title?

 

They were definately setting him up to win the Smackdown Title there for a while. I truly believe he would have eventually. The whole reason they put the ECW title on him in the first place, was to give ECW a good solid Main Event Champion.

 

His MMA record isn't bad either, 6 and 1 now I believe.

[SaySo]

In the world of professional wrestling, with guys like Show, Taker, Kane, Cena, Batista, and an endless list more?

 

Average. He also never completely dominated everything the way Tyson did. He won, what? The ECW title?

 

Lashley was going to win the WWE title or World Heavyweight Championship. But Michael Hayes conduct in the backstage during 2007 put an end to that.

 

Lashley had the look. But you put him down base on the way he spoke.

 

If Mike Tyson was a dominant professional wrestler than a dominant boxer, would you use your analysis on Lashley on Tyson? Based on your "interpretation of a tough guy", Tyson voice sounded like he was below average guy.

 

And what's to say he gets drafted to SmackDown and dominates their roster in 2008? He definitely had the size McMahon craves. He was far more talented in-ring than a Kozlov and Ezekial Jackson. If he didn't have that appeal, the looks, the amateur background, StrikeForce wouldn't take their chances on him.

 

Obviously Brock Lesnar was on a higher plateau, to use your words Arrows, he was white.

[Arrows]

And the WWE never books for the internet fan. If they did that, they would be in the same spot as ROH (if they started listening to the internet fan at the start of the IWC). You book for your audience and the internet fan has quite different taste as a casual fan. Notice when the WWE took out the word "wrestling", did the casual fan react negatively as the internet fan?

 

Agreed. Entirely.

 

I don't think CM Punk will slip down the card. Unless you believe a potential Stone Cold/CM Punk match at WrestleMania is slipping down. CM Punk loses at SummerSlam, he's going to be screwed by Triple H. Whoever wins, there will be something flaky about it, which is why they added HHH into the match. If Cena does get pinned cleanly tonight, then kudos because i want to see that personally. But based on the WWE history on booking their number one men, highly unlikely.

 

Yeah, cause not doing anything for Sept, Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan, and Feb. That's not slipping down the card. Cause after ALL that time doing nothing, you get to wrestle a guy who's not done anything in....how long? Oh boy!

 

Let's not forget that's nowhere near a confirmed match by any means. It's okay though, cause that one match makes up for having your entire character wrecked again and then going back to doing nothing at all after that match.