The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Hyde Hill]

Ok it was more about that volume also plays a very large part in revenue. Can't disagree there and yeah it's between 10 and 50 percent in that example.

[PeterHilton]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ampulator" data-cite="ampulator" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>That's my point though. I don't think anyone ARGUES those points, if at all. But I'm not exactly sure WWE can rely on being more family-oriented. Of course, it worked for them in the past, but it feelis like a losing strategy for an industry that seems less family-oriented. Not necessarily family-unfriendly (there were NWA promotions that were family-friendly), but they seem to mistake being family-oriented to being family-friendly.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Whether or not its 'family friendly' vs 'family oriented' is a matter of opinion, honestly.</p><p> </p><p> There are some episodes of Raw I watch with my son that I cringe, some that I literally have nothing to argue with content-wise</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Has anyone ever argued their overall numbers have been down? No. At least, not by much. The argument isn't about PG either. It's about losing the young male demographics for me. If they continue to make a less young-male friendly product, it will hurt them. Not now, not in a year. but in a couple of years, it will likely do so.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'd say that it is MUCH easier to cater to the family entertainment crowd then to try to keep the increasingly fickle young male audience happy. By the time the writing team picked up on one popular trend to write to, a dozen more would've come and gone. </p><p> </p><p> Plus, then you really are competing directly with UFC and the WWE would lose that fight.</p>

[Stennick]

<p>So I have the day off of work, I decided after writing a long dynasty show last night that beer was the best way to end the night. I just woke up and although my mind is foggy I'm not sure what the argument is. </p><p> </p><p>

There is no way of knowing just how popular or unpopular this show is with young males. If its true that young males are no longer watching then the decline in viewership would have had exactly steady with the rise in kids and families. 500,000 young males leave the scene, 500,000 families come in. </p><p> </p><p>

I think that would be pretty rare considering as someone pointed out the show is drawing nearly the same viewers now as it was in 2000. As Peter pointed out, they really don't care who is watching as long as their watching. I got news for all those 18-29 year old males, nobody cares about you anymore.</p><p> </p><p>

Women and families in the economy are what people are marketing towards these days (I should know its my job) so really if they ARE losing the red blooded american young male they don't care. The UFC has a much broader audience than people would suspect. Their female numbers are WAY higher than wrestlings were (except possibly during its boom period). </p><p> </p><p>

This is such a silly thing to debate becauase neither side has a single number. Without numbers we can just go off of speculation. Without numbers Fully Loaded 2000 might in your eyes be the biggest pay per view ever but with numbers we can say "no just because you LIKE that show or just because you BELIEVE that show is the biggest doesn't make it so". </p><p> </p><p>

In my world numbers are the only thing that matters. Now of course if we were airing WWE RAW I'd be able to tell you what they were drawing in that young male category but then I'd have to find what they were drawing in that back in the Attitude era. Simply put very few people have those numbers and none of us are them so there is no need to argue about it.</p><p> </p><p>

The WWE is more of a power around the world today than it was in 2000. People used to show up to see Hogan, The Rock, Undertaker, Austin, etc. now people show up to see the WWE brand and that was a brilliant move on Vince's part and its also part of the reason why it will be next to impossible (barring something life changing) for any other professional wrestling company to get their foot in the door. Vince has been the ONLY pro wrestling company for nearly ten years. Ask other operating systems how close they are to taking down Microsoft....it'll never happen again barring some life changing event nobody will ever get CLOSE to microsoft and nobody will get close to the WWE. Its not the product that sells its the brand.</p>

[Linsolv]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PeterHilton" data-cite="PeterHilton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'd say that it is MUCH easier to cater to the family entertainment crowd then to try to keep the increasingly fickle young male audience happy. <strong>By the time the writing team picked up on one popular trend to write to, a dozen more would've come and gone. </strong><p> </p><p> Plus, then you really are competing directly with UFC and the WWE would lose that fight.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> (Bolded for emphasis)</p><p> </p><p> Are you kidding? There's no trick to finding out what's cool; Twitter publishes a list of trending tags. Just look at them. They even indicate what is likely to trend in Google searches. That might've been true 10 years ago, or 5, but now if a bunch of writers can't figure out what 18-29 wants, they're inexcusably stupid.</p>

[Stennick]

<p>You don't understand what he was saying, what he was saying is you can't base a storyline about what is trending on twitter.</p><p> </p><p>

Track it some time that stuff is so up and down, there is no consistency to it. You base it on something on there and a month from now thats gonna be old news. </p><p> </p><p>

Does Jessie Slaughter and You Dun Goofed ring a bell? You can't just base it on something that is trending on twitter and hope to have more than a week out of it. The Internet changes direction so quick these days that you'd be better off sticking with traditional stuff than trying to keep up with twitter or google.</p>

[sabataged]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="SaySo" data-cite="SaySo" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Dave Meltzer wrote:<p> </p><p> One interesting thing to look at is that as much as people talk about the millions and millions of viewers who no longer watch wrestling, the reality is that the WWE audience, despite the ratings being in the low to mid-3s, isn't down significantly from the base audience during the boom period. The difference is that because more people have TVs and the audience for USA Network is so much bigger now than it was during the late ’90s/early ’00s, the ratings for the show would be down significantly even if all else remained equal. Ten years ago, on July 10, 2000, Raw did a 6.03 rating. You look at a 6.03 ten years ago and a 3.38 today and you think, wow, WWE is sinking fast. But in reality, that 6.03 is the percentage of people watching the show based on the number of homes that have the channel, the latter of which is much, much larger today. In terms of average number of actual viewers, the July 10, 2000 Raw did 5 million viewers and the July 19, 2010 Raw did 4.8 million viewers, statistically pretty much a dead heat. Now, granted, that's not to say there is as much interest in wrestling today as there was ten years ago because that's not the case at all. You had an extra three million viewers watching on Monday nights, they were just watching the other show (astounding when you consider the state of WCW in mid-2000, and really embarrassing for TNA today). Plus, a lot of those WCW viewers and viewers who didn't bother watching the shows normally were willing to switch to Raw during major segments in the 10:00 hour, often involving Rock and Austin, leading to some of them hitting eight and nine million viewers, numbers Raw today isn't approaching anytime soon. So yes, Raw was much, much hotter, but a boom period is about adding casual fans to whatever your base audience is, and at the end of the day, the base audience today is not significantly different for Raw than it was during the boom.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> Well said</p>

[Hyde Hill]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Now if there was separate data available for their 18-29 male demo we could make some conclusions. While I know there is separate data for the 18-39 group rating's wise I have never seen that collected and averaged out over time.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yep totally agree on the need for data Stennick. Although WWE's stranglehold on wrestling is not as big as Window's on operating systems in my view they are a very strong near monopoly and have been a total monopoly from 2001-2006.</p><p> </p><p> (PS can you believe that Impact has only been on prime time since nov 2006 and 2 hours since okt 207)</p>

[Hyde Hill]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="sabataged" data-cite="sabataged" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Well said</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> But either badly copy pasted or badly written:p</p>

[Stennick]

<p>Actually I think its bigger than that on Windows. There Linux and Mac make up a bigger percentage of the "fan base" than TNA and the indies do. </p><p> </p><p>

The best example is when they went head to head and fans couldn't overlap the WWE percentage wise absolutely dominated TNA. </p><p> </p><p>

When these O.S companies go head to head Microsoft still dominants but there are a higher percentage of MAC and Linux fans out there that would choose them over Windows. To where is there isn't that high of a fan base that would choose any wrestling over the WWE. </p><p> </p><p>

So I would say the WWE has a stronger market hold on wrestling than even Microsoft does on the O.S market.</p>

[SaySo]

<p>Here is the WWE annual financial reports from 2006 to 2009. </p><p> </p><p>

<span>http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy34/wwelostwire_sg1/WWEstatement06-09.jpg</span></p><p> </p><p>

Comparing first quarter results between 2008 and 2009.</p><p>

<span>http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy34/wwelostwire_sg1/WWE20092008FirstQuarter.jpg</span></p><p> </p><p>

==</p><p> </p><p>

This compares the second quarter results along with the totals up to June 30 between 2009 and 2010.</p><p>

<span>http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy34/wwelostwire_sg1/WWE20102009comparison.jpg</span></p>

[SaySo]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Hyde Hill" data-cite="Hyde Hill" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>But either badly copy pasted or badly written:p</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Badly copy pasted. I wish i could find the original Dave Meltzer article. I got that one from another poster who quoted exactly that.</p>

[PeterHilton]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Linsolv" data-cite="Linsolv" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>(Bolded for emphasis)<p> </p><p> Are you kidding? There's no trick to finding out what's cool; Twitter publishes a list of trending tags. Just look at them. They even indicate what is likely to trend in Google searches. That might've been true 10 years ago, or 5, but now if a bunch of writers can't figure out what 18-29 wants, they're inexcusably stupid.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Stennick already responded, but I just wanted to say that this was a pretty silly point. </p><p> </p><p> Sooooo..7 months ago I debut a guys called The Double Rainbow Warrior? And then destroy the character a week later? Should I check Twitter today and then write a segment about Eve wearing a meatdress and then talking about Justin Bieber?</p><p> </p><p> The problems isn't the writers..it's that pop culture moves so quickly it would be impossible to hit the stuff that's cool before it doubles back on itslef and ends up being played out</p>

[Stennick]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PeterHilton" data-cite="PeterHilton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Stennick already responded, but I just wanted to say that this was a pretty silly point. <p> </p><p> Sooooo..7 months ago I debut a guys called The Double Rainbow Warrior? And then destroy the character a week later? Should I check Twitter today and then write a segment about Eve wearing a meatdress and then talking about Justin Bieber?</p><p> </p><p> The problems isn't the writers..it's that pop culture moves so quickly it would be impossible to hit the stuff that's cool before it doubles back on itslef and ends up being played out</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!! Its like I just.....just said that SAME thing <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[PeterHilton]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Stennick" data-cite="Stennick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!! Its like I just.....just said that SAME thing <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I said you said it already.</p><p> </p><p> I just wanted to throw out the Eve in a meatdress visual. <img alt=";)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/wink.png.686f06e511ee1fbf6bdc7d82f6831e53.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Stennick]

This is a family board so I'm leaving all meat....dress references alone <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/wink.png.686f06e511ee1fbf6bdc7d82f6831e53.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />

[ewanite]

A twitter trending topic a few days ago was #abortionclinicplaylistsongs. That is all.

[PeterHilton]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ewanite" data-cite="ewanite" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>A twitter trending topic a few days ago was #abortionclinicplaylistsongs. That is all.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> And how long before Vince Russo tries to run with it?</p>

[Stennick]

Theres not a man in his family if he doesn't. I need more abortion clinic playlist storylines in my pro wrasslin!!!

[b0shey]

Just done watchin NXT, Heel Michael Cole is just to funny <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />

[Linsolv]

<p>You're right. My comment was silly.</p><p> </p><p>

That said, I made it because the comment I quoted was, to my ears, equally silly. I mean. Not as misguided but it's absurd to think that you need to be on the bleeding edge of culture. If you do, if you absolutely need to be the next best thing at all times? Actually yeah. You're going to get a product that moves and shifts quite frequently, because the cutting edge of pop culture is erratic and confused. That said, if you wanted to be on the cutting edge, it's not hard.</p><p> </p><p>

Now, on the other hand, you could point out dozens of things that have been successful in targeting the 18-29 male audience, assuming they're needed which I believe was challenged either. The Nexus has been pretty hot with pretty much every demographic. Then there's the way that TNA's been handling Anderson. Or the way they were, I haven't watched in like 2 months.</p><p> </p><p>

Besides -- currently trending in the US: #how2ruinsex. Who <strong>doesn't</strong> want to see that play out? [Considering, if they managed to work it out in a way that was tasteful, it would fit right into the whole storyline with Maryse and Ted DiBiase, and would more than likely come off a lot like typical WWE comedy.]</p>

[PeterHilton]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Linsolv" data-cite="Linsolv" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You're right. My comment was silly.<p> </p><p> That said, I made it because the comment I quoted was, to my ears, equally silly. I mean. Not as misguided but it's absurd to think that you need to be on the bleeding edge of culture. If you do, if you absolutely need to be the next best thing at all times? Actually yeah. You're going to get a product that moves and shifts quite frequently, because the cutting edge of pop culture is erratic and confused. That said, if you wanted to be on the cutting edge, it's not hard.</p><p> </p><p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Linsolv, I never said one couldn't keep up with what's cool. I said it would be hard to write to and specifically MUCH harder than doing a family friendly program</p><p> </p><p> I think ECW was a cutting edge program..but that was also the internet in its infancy.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Besides -- currently trending in the US: #how2ruinsex. Who doesn't want to see that play out?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I sense a return of Mr McMahon tothe TV screen</p>

[Linsolv]

I guess that's true. 18-29 isn't that hard to write for, but 8-15 writes itself. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/redface.png.900245280682ef18c5d82399a93c5827.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />

[sabataged]

So off that topic...the rmor currently is that a big name will turn before WM. Everyone auotmatically assumes it will be Cena. I think it will actually be HHH after he returns. Wether we like it or not Cena sells too many tshirts to the kids. Until that stops for some reason I dont see him turning. I see HHH coming back to a big pop and then making a big heel turn. Maybe he Can even say that Sheamus showed him what he used to be like or some crap. I just think Taker has 2 WMs left in him and 1 will be HHH and the last will be Cena.

[supershot]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="sabataged" data-cite="sabataged" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Everyone auotmatically assumes it will be Cena. I think it will actually be HHH after he returns. .</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'm not really assuming it will be Cena.. it's more of a dream <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Hyde Hill]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PeterHilton" data-cite="PeterHilton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Linsolv, I never said one couldn't keep up with what's cool. I said it would be hard to write to and specifically MUCH harder than doing a family friendly program<p> </p><p> <strong>I think ECW was a cutting edge program..but that was also the internet in its infancy.</strong></p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> I sense a return of Mr McMahon tothe TV screen</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Also to do with there being a larger and broader cultural movement at that time in pop culture so to speak. Counter culture, alternative hero's, Grunge etc etc. Stepping away from the squicky clean 80's.</p><p> </p><p> It's been a while since something like that has happened in my view. The internet may be partly to blame or the internet and more accurately social networking is that larger movement at the moment. But that is a whole other discussion.</p>