The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Hyde Hill]

WTF! Nothing to do with TNA or WWE. It's wrestling!!! Everyone is taller, heavier etc etc. Then they actually are.

[Melanieshaman]

This is an asinine statement, doesn't reflect at all how things happened or how Cena got over, and pretty much guarantees that I'll dismiss any future posts form you as the typical internet nerd bullcrap.

 

So thanks for being so efficient.

 

 

That's fine, I don't need anyone's approval, believe especially not on the interwebs. I was watching when cena debuted and while he has always been decent on the mic he's never had skills. I think my biggest mistake was expecting everyone to be a super talent in ring... everyone to be dean malenko, or some such person. I guess if you constantly push someone and surround him with super stars during his early career (Orton) then he will eventually get over. All I was trying to say is, I just don't see anyone at the moment in wwe that gives me that "ooh, i hate the guy" feeling. Maybe my opinion of a heel is misplaced these days. One or two people active today that do do that for me are; Bischoff, and Styles. Before you go off saying I am a TNA mark, i'm not, i just like more of their younger guys (originals), not all the imports. Christopher Daniels is one of my all time favs, and I hate what they did with him. As far as I know he's gone for good, but again, I don't have the time to keep up with all the goings on.

[Melanieshaman]

Took that long for you to figure it out. I posted once, was hoping to get an answer to any of my questions... Figured that would give me an idea where the shaman is coming from.

 

 

I tried to answer questions and clarify, if i missed you post I apologize. SHEESH

[Stennick]

That's fine, I don't need anyone's approval, believe especially not on the interwebs. I was watching when cena debuted and while he has always been decent on the mic he's never had skills. I think my biggest mistake was expecting everyone to be a super talent in ring... everyone to be dean malenko, or some such person. I guess if you constantly push someone and surround him with super stars during his early career (Orton) then he will eventually get over. All I was trying to say is, I just don't see anyone at the moment in wwe that gives me that "ooh, i hate the guy" feeling. Maybe my opinion of a heel is misplaced these days. One or two people active today that do do that for me are; Bischoff, and Styles. Before you go off saying I am a TNA mark, i'm not, i just like more of their younger guys (originals), not all the imports. Christopher Daniels is one of my all time favs, and I hate what they did with him. As far as I know he's gone for good, but again, I don't have the time to keep up with all the goings on.

 

Cena vs. JBL I Quit match, Cena vs. Shawn Michaels 60 minute match on RAW, Cena vs. Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemania, Cena vs. Batista (is regarded as one of if not the best match at Mania outside the main event), Cena vs. Umaga from the Royal Rumble was raved about.

 

I know its the in thing to hate on Cena because he doesn't do "MOVEZ" but seriously he' had some seriously memorable matches over the last five years he's been champion. People bring up John Cena's lack of moves as a reason they don't like him since they can't deny the guy gets the crowd going better than anybody. Hulk Hogan, Ultimate Warrior, Steve Austin (the guy has a broken neck and two shot knees and invented the punch kick WWE main event style), Undertaker circa 2002 American Badass, The Rock. There is a TON of guys who have had a limited offense and utilized it just as well as Cena. The difference is people like to rebel and if 12 year old kids are cheering Cena well then they gotta cheer somebody else.

 

Cena got himself over and he did it in a way similar to Austin. The guy was a heel on Smackdown cutting promos mentioning a dead John Ritter and the crowd turned him into a face. Now he's not the same guy now but he turned himself into a superstar by losing every "big" match that came his way. Eddie Guerrero, Undertaker, Brock Lesnar, the guy was a main event punching bag for nearly a year before turning face.

 

The only arguments for Cena not being a good wrestler and therefore not right for his push is badly misplaced. This is not ROH and if you want to see "MOVEZ" then go there, otherwise understand that "skill" is a relative term that can be bended to fit anyone's agenda.

[Melanieshaman]

Cena vs. JBL I Quit match, Cena vs. Shawn Michaels 60 minute match on RAW, Cena vs. Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemania, Cena vs. Batista (is regarded as one of if not the best match at Mania outside the main event), Cena vs. Umaga from the Royal Rumble was raved about.

 

I know its the in thing to hate on Cena because he doesn't do "MOVEZ" but seriously he' had some seriously memorable matches over the last five years he's been champion. People bring up John Cena's lack of moves as a reason they don't like him since they can't deny the guy gets the crowd going better than anybody. Hulk Hogan, Ultimate Warrior, Steve Austin (the guy has a broken neck and two shot knees and invented the punch kick WWE main event style), Undertaker circa 2002 American Badass, The Rock. There is a TON of guys who have had a limited offense and utilized it just as well as Cena. The difference is people like to rebel and if 12 year old kids are cheering Cena well then they gotta cheer somebody else.

 

Cena got himself over and he did it in a way similar to Austin. The guy was a heel on Smackdown cutting promos mentioning a dead John Ritter and the crowd turned him into a face. Now he's not the same guy now but he turned himself into a superstar by losing every "big" match that came his way. Eddie Guerrero, Undertaker, Brock Lesnar, the guy was a main event punching bag for nearly a year before turning face.

 

The only arguments for Cena not being a good wrestler and therefore not right for his push is badly misplaced. This is not ROH and if you want to see "MOVEZ" then go there, otherwise understand that "skill" is a relative term that can be bended to fit anyone's agenda.

 

 

OK i got it, as i said i only watch on occasion and apparently i have missed very good match hes had (joking). I guess I am slightly out of line with cena, i never liked him but i can appreciate what he's done, and you're right. I guess maybe i should look into RoH more. Maybe it's just me, but i didnt like austin either...

[PeterHilton]

That's fine, I don't need anyone's approval, believe especially not on the interwebs. I was watching when cena debuted and while he has always been decent on the mic he's never had skills. I think my biggest mistake was expecting everyone to be a super talent in ring... everyone to be dean malenko, or some such person. I guess if you constantly push someone and surround him with super stars during his early career (Orton) then he will eventually get over. All I was trying to say is, I just don't see anyone at the moment in wwe that gives me that "ooh, i hate the guy" feeling. Maybe my opinion of a heel is misplaced these days. One or two people active today that do do that for me are; Bischoff, and Styles. Before you go off saying I am a TNA mark, i'm not, i just like more of their younger guys (originals), not all the imports. Christopher Daniels is one of my all time favs, and I hate what they did with him. As far as I know he's gone for good, but again, I don't have the time to keep up with all the goings on.

 

Cena was crazy over as a heel, playing the white rapper. If you don't watch the WWE, then sitting there and saying things like "Cena was never over the WWE just pushed him down people's throats" is both misinformed and factually incorrect.

 

And guess what? The vast majority of the WWE audience just aren't that worried about the inring stuff.

 

OK i got it, as i said i only watch on occasion and apparently i have missed very good match hes had (joking). I guess I am slightly out of line with cena, i never liked him but i can appreciate what he's done, and you're right. I guess maybe i should look into RoH more. Maybe it's just me, but i didnt like austin either...

 

It's just you.

[Melanieshaman]

Cena was crazy over as a heel, playing the white rapper. If you don't watch the WWE, then sitting there and saying things like "Cena was never over the WWE just pushed him down people's throats" is both misinformed and factually incorrect.

 

 

well, i'm older and i don't really remember him getting a ton of air time/pops as a heel... i sorta remember him in that tweener role. I did watch more back then btw. I know he earned a good portion of his popularity, but i also remember him getting booed extensively a few years ago, after his face turn. I don't think he was pushed down our throats at first, but the fact that he's never left the main event #1 or 2 contender ship when he's not champ seems a little silly to me, even undertaker or HhH or Michaels fall off at times.

[Fantabulous]

Cena showing up on Raw for the first time as part of a draft saw one of the most insanely loud crowd reactions ever. I don't think I've ever seen a Raw crowd go that berserk since.

[PeterHilton]

well, i'm older and i don't really remember him getting a ton of air time/pops as a heel... i sorta remember him in that tweener role. I did watch more back then btw. I know he earned a good portion of his popularity, but i also remember him getting booed extensively a few years ago, after his face turn. I don't think he was pushed down our throats at first, but the fact that he's never left the main event #1 or 2 contender ship when he's not champ seems a little silly to me, even undertaker or HhH or Michaels fall off at times.

 

Did Hogan leave the top spot when he's was in his prime?

 

that's what astounds me by the 'internet fan' reaction to John Cena...I don't even really like the 'Super Cena' crap but at least I can see the reasoning:

 

--when he's done, Cena will leave wrestling as one of the top 5 draws in the history of the industry.

 

--He's the most popular and most reliable draw in a period where the WWE lost it's other major stars, and in an economic recession.

 

--He's a nice guy with no personal baggage to worry about, unlike someone like Jeff Hardy or Batista

 

--He gets booed at times by the smarts in the crowd? Who cares??? That just means he has people who will pay to root for him AND pay to root against him. This 'he needs to turn' stuff is crap...unless you have a monster storyline in place, why turn a character people boo anyway?

 

It's just insane; it's the typical response where net fans start thinking their own personal opinion is shared by the majority of the WWE audience,when 99.9% of the time,it just isn't.

[djthefunkchris]

well, i'm older and i don't really remember him getting a ton of air time/pops as a heel... i sorta remember him in that tweener role. I did watch more back then btw. I know he earned a good portion of his popularity, but i also remember him getting booed extensively a few years ago, after his face turn. I don't think he was pushed down our throats at first, but the fact that he's never left the main event #1 or 2 contender ship when he's not champ seems a little silly to me, even undertaker or HhH or Michaels fall off at times.

 

What should that really tell you?

 

Does it not count all the times Cena did go below to feud with other's though (Miz for example).

 

I'm not a Cena fan much at all these days, but I can't deny the stuff that's just .... there for anyone to see. You can easily go look up everything your talking about on Youtube.com, and see within' a few minutes where your wrong or whatever.

 

A couple of years ago there was a huge internet gangup on Cena, where he was getting alot more Boo's then you would expect, depending on where the WWE was at the time. Mainly the "Interwebs" as you put it, the internet fans that like to say they would push Carlito to be tougher then Cena, or I believe now The Miz is someone they like... I know they used to love John Morrison, etc... People that are not even half as over should be Main Eventing in WWE according to these people, and they want it NOW.

 

The thing is, if they stick around, prove themselves, and are able to get themselves over... The WWE has proven they would "go with it". There is always going to be a few individuals that don't make it, can't stick with them, won't like their rules, etc. These people will not make it no matter how much people think they deserve it (Shelton Benjamin for example).

 

The figures that WWE see are not the same as you think they see. IF someone was NOT super over, they would know it from alot more then In Ring "booing". Merchandise sells increasing at the same time he gets boo'd, etc.

 

Pluss, boo's are just like Cheers as far as wrestling goes. Hate them or love them, they are over "You KNOW who they are".

[Melanieshaman]

Did Hogan leave the top spot when he's was in his prime?

 

that's what astounds me by the 'internet fan' reaction to John Cena...I don't even really like the 'Super Cena' crap but at least I can see the reasoning:

 

--when he's done, Cena will leave wrestling as one of the top 5 draws in the history of the industry.

 

--He's the most popular and most reliable draw in a period where the WWE lost it's other major stars, and in an economic recession.

 

--He's a nice guy with no personal baggage to worry about, unlike someone like Jeff Hardy or Batista

 

--He gets booed at times by the smarts in the crowd? Who cares??? That just means he has people who will pay to root for him AND pay to root against him. This 'he needs to turn' stuff is crap...unless you have a monster storyline in place, why turn a character people boo anyway?

 

It's just insane; it's the typical response where net fans start thinking their own personal opinion is shared by the majority of the WWE audience,when 99.9% of the time,it just isn't.

 

 

No, I get it, i dont read net wrestling news or much with fans feelings really other than here. I get WWE is creating a hogan for this generation in cena, i can personally not like him right? I know i am in the minority when it comes to cena, orton, austin, etc... that's fine we all have our favs right? I'm not trying to fight with anyone or piss anyone off, I was just trying to get a few opinions on why some people are still popular or getting such big pushes (my main point was on orton anyway).

[Melanieshaman]

Pluss, boo's are just like Cheers as far as wrestling goes. Hate them or love them, they are over "You KNOW who they are".

 

LOL true, i never thought of it that way. the feud with Miz, i assumed was Cena giving him the rub, trying to push him UP a notch not Cena down. I guess I am wrong there as well.

[SaySo]

well, i'm older and i don't really remember him getting a ton of air time/pops as a heel... i sorta remember him in that tweener role. I did watch more back then btw. I know he earned a good portion of his popularity, but i also remember him getting booed extensively a few years ago, after his face turn. I don't think he was pushed down our throats at first, but the fact that he's never left the main event #1 or 2 contender ship when he's not champ seems a little silly to me, even undertaker or HhH or Michaels fall off at times.

 

The boo-birds didn't stop WWE revenue from jumping $262 million in 2006 to $520 million in 2008. Coincidence that John Cena was the face of the WWE during that time period on the flag ship show. He held the title for 380 days in 2007 (a year earlier) until injuring himself in a match with Ken Kennedy in the Fall, relinquishing the title. He was scheduled to lose the title to Randy Orton which would have boosted Orton much more if Cena was healthy and ready to do the job (note, when Orton beat Cena at last year SummerSlam, that the fan reaction started to increase from that period to now...what a win can do for ya). Chris Benoit / Wellness Policy controversy occurred in 2007 and likely tarnish the image of the WWE. Yet the WWE made their best business the following year.

 

Cena made a spectacular return at Royal Rumble 2008 at Madison Square Garden.

. Guess shoving down the throat of fans = successful. E.g. Kozlov was shove down our throat and guess what happened with him, he's tagging w/Santino and not even in a high profile matches ever since his debut year. Meanwhile Cena been featured in high profile match the last five years because he sells. Business is about making $$$, not sacrificing a cash cow for the boo-birds. Boo-birds = did the bottom line fall? Nope. Boo-birds didn't drive business, Cena was one of the driver's of the business and they did just fine despite UFC dominance of the PPV landscape the last couple of years.

 

Recap:

Why didn't he leave the main event scene? = he draws. Wrestling is all about drawing. Any business is about selling. When someone draws, they sell tickets, they sell merchandise, etc..

 

Did the boo-bird cause the WWE business to lose money because they shoved Cena down our throat? = 2006 was the height of the boo-birds, WWE revenues jumped $262 million to $520 million in two years. Guess Cena was a bad decision to be the face of the WWE, not!

[djthefunkchris]

No, I get it, i dont read net wrestling news or much with fans feelings really other than here. I get WWE is creating a hogan for this generation in cena, i can personally not like him right? I know i am in the minority when it comes to cena, orton, austin, etc... that's fine we all have our favs right? I'm not trying to fight with anyone or piss anyone off, I was just trying to get a few opinions on why some people are still popular or getting such big pushes (my main point was on orton anyway).

 

Orton is just one of those that can't be denied. I didn't think much of him a few years back, but now... He can just go in the ring and look around in a evilish way, and he gets a HUGE reaction.

 

All the personal stories and such would reflect to us that he's not someone we would actually want to hang around with, probably wouldn't like him too much. However, the thing most know about is only what the WWE air's. He's been there forever and a day, he's young, he's Hugely popular. If I were to compare anyone in the "E" to Steve Austin, this would be the guy, right now, at this time.

 

Although you didn't like Austin as an in ring talent either.

[Melanieshaman]

Cena made a spectacular return at Royal Rumble 2008 at Madison Square Garden.

.

 

Guess Cena was a bad decision to be the face of the WWE, not!

Color me impressed with that pop, I think i saw that match too... see? old age and memory, you know what they say. Obviously some people get pushed to the moon and have something about them that sticks with the fans, and apparently Cena has that.. Hats off to him.

[SaySo]

It's ashamed that the neck injury Austin suffered at SummerSlam 1997 took some of his abilities in the ring.

 

His match w/Bret Hart at WrestleMania 13 was the best match that night.

 

However, it didn't stop him from becoming the number one draw during the Attitude Era. But i felt the neck injury took away some of his in-ring talent. But he was still fun to watch laying a can of whoop grass.

[Melanieshaman]

Orton is just one of those that can't be denied. I didn't think much of him a few years back, but now... He can just go in the ring and look around in a evilish way, and he gets a HUGE reaction.

 

Although you didn't like Austin as an in ring talent either.

 

 

I just don't understand the draw of orton, and his shtick, and as for austin, i get why he was popular, he was perfect for the E back then at that time. I just didn't care for him... I bet i'm not the only person, but i'm sure it would be hard to find someone like me that feels that way about austin.

[Melanieshaman]

It's ashamed that the neck injury Austin suffered at SummerSlam 1997 took some of his abilities in the ring.

His match w/Bret Hart at WrestleMania 13 was the best match that night.

 

Oh most definitely, i mean I saw that match, it was awesome, i just wanted him to shut up! lol

[djthefunkchris]

I just don't understand the draw of orton, and his shtick, and as for austin, i get why he was popular, he was perfect for the E back then at that time. I just didn't care for him... I bet i'm not the only person, but i'm sure it would be hard to find someone like me that feels that way about austin.

 

 

Ever since that happened, and his feud with HHH, and taking out every single McMahan, I seen his turn to face coming. He's not a "Heel" anymore, but a renegade Face, same as Austin kind of. He don't really trust anyone, and RKO's everyone reminds me of Stunning everyone, etc.

 

Edit for better viewing, lol

[Robtallica]

cena was not push down peoples throats to being with. he started out as a ****y punk heel but his rapping stuff got him over with the fans and id say the fans where the reason for his face turn mainly because he was very diffrent from the rest of the roster at the time and people where starting to get behind him.

 

a big part of the reason why most people over the age of 12-14 dont like cena is partly due to those who remember the him from his rapper days and would have rather he when back down that route and the fact that he is now this era hogan ie the whole good guy with the pure heart, kissing babys. also the fact he hasnt been out of the title picture since 2005 dont help him out with the whole pushing down people throats claims.

 

and the people who cliam that he's never had a good match in his career i disagree. cena is never going to put on a classic pure wrestling match but he's had good matchs with edge, hbk, hhh, and jericho. yes i know these guys have great talent and in hbk's case he could make me look good, but i dont thinks he the worst guy on there roster in ring talent wise

[Melanieshaman]

 

Ever since that happened, and his feud with HHH, and taking out every single McMahan, I seen his turn to face coming. He's not a "Heel" anymore, but a renegade Face, same as Austin kind of. He don't really trust anyone, and RKO's everyone reminds me of Stunning everyone, etc.

 

Edit for better viewing, lol

 

 

Ahhhh ok I had forgotten about that. That was a LONG time ago was it not? Not that that matters in wrestling time I get it not, he's like a silent austin i guess.

[Melanieshaman]

cena is never going to put on a classic pure wrestling match but he's had good matchs with edge, hbk, hhh, and jericho. yes i know these guys have great talent and in hbk's case he could make me look good, but i dont thinks he the worst guy on there roster in ring talent wise

 

Even I know that! lol

[djthefunkchris]

Even I know that! lol

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQO3MRTC_-4&feature=related

 

This to me is just "cold", maybe not Stone Cold, but they booked this pretty good, besides the RKO/FU (whatever they call it) not working out.

 

 

EDIT: To add to the conversation a bit more.

 

I've always felt they take longer in the "E" then most other promotions. TO ME, this is normal, as most promotions historically took time a great deal of time to get people over. Randy Orton took a good while to get over, although some people didn't take as long (Cena). The last few years to me, they take less time then ever getting people over. I think this is where WWE Superstars and such help them out, being able to get people seen more that would normally not be able to be seen as much.

 

This is also the reason I like the brand splits, wish the ECW brand would have worked out for them as well. It does nothing but help in my opinion, even if it only does a 1.0 in ratings. That might not sound like much, but when you consider alot of shows lasting for years that dont' get even that big, you have to consider that it must take alot more for them to get someone over. If they are cancelling shows that do around a 1.0 rating, then it must be because the show isn't helping them as much as they would want it to... takes to long to work with. At least that is the only thing I can think of that makes sense.

 

TNA doesn't get the kind of viewer's that WWE gets, yet have more people for us to try to know. This is where I think they move people too fast, and why it's very healthy for them to get someone like Anderson/Kennedy who has already become somewhat popular elsewhere. They just don't have the viewers it seems to take to "build" from within', in any reasonable amount of time. Even now, after being on for several years... People like Angle, Anderson, RVD, Hardy, etc. are more well known then poeple that have been there for years, like Joe and Styles. Their "homegrown" talent is not as over anywhere outside of the TNA arena, as the "ex" WWE/WCW stars are, that they hire. Imagine WWE trying to use Next, or ECW as their main way of getting someone completely over, and you can imagine what it takes for TNA to do the same. If they could just double their viewership for a good year, TNA could do alot more with the stars they have, and really build it up to another level/different way of doing things. Till that time comes, I understand hiring people like Hogan, Hardy, RVD, Angle, Elijah Burke/Pope, Kennedy/Anderson, etc. NOW, those of us that keep up with them know where to see them and watch, so it helps us (the internet people) go there to see our favorites that have left the WWE, but it doesn't help those NOT in the "know" as I come by people all the time that don't realise Hogan and Flair are around still, don't realise Sting has been around at all for the last 10 years, nor people like Raven or Rhino, etc. These people are people that are known, but since TNA is not in as many homes, there is a serious amount of people that don't even know their favorite wrestler's are still around....

 

However, they do know about Cena, Big Show, Undertaker, John Morrison, The Miz, Randy Orton, etc. They know about these people even though they don't watch... because people still talk wrestling, and when they do they talk about what the "E" is doing. A good while back, it took years to build a great character up, now you can do this in about six months... in the WWE. In TNA it would take years, if your really wanting it to work, unless you get them from OUTSIDE sources (WWE).

[Robtallica]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQO3MRTC_-4&feature=related

 

This to me is just "cold", maybe not Stone Cold, but they booked this pretty good, besides the RKO/FU (whatever they call it) not working out.

 

 

EDIT: To add to the conversation a bit more.

 

I've always felt they take longer in the "E" then most other promotions. TO ME, this is normal, as most promotions historically took time a great deal of time to get people over. Randy Orton took a good while to get over, although some people didn't take as long (Cena). The last few years to me, they take less time then ever getting people over. I think this is where WWE Superstars and such help them out, being able to get people seen more that would normally not be able to be seen as much.

 

This is also the reason I like the brand splits, wish the ECW brand would have worked out for them as well. It does nothing but help in my opinion, even if it only does a 1.0 in ratings. That might not sound like much, but when you consider alot of shows lasting for years that dont' get even that big, you have to consider that it must take alot more for them to get someone over. If they are cancelling shows that do around a 1.0 rating, then it must be because the show isn't helping them as much as they would want it to... takes to long to work with. At least that is the only thing I can think of that makes sense.

 

TNA doesn't get the kind of viewer's that WWE gets, yet have more people for us to try to know. This is where I think they move people too fast, and why it's very healthy for them to get someone like Anderson/Kennedy who has already become somewhat popular elsewhere. They just don't have the viewers it seems to take to "build" from within', in any reasonable amount of time. Even now, after being on for several years... People like Angle, Anderson, RVD, Hardy, etc. are more well known then poeple that have been there for years, like Joe and Styles. Their "homegrown" talent is not as over anywhere outside of the TNA arena, as the "ex" WWE/WCW stars are, that they hire. Imagine WWE trying to use Next, or ECW as their main way of getting someone completely over, and you can imagine what it takes for TNA to do the same. If they could just double their viewership for a good year, TNA could do alot more with the stars they have, and really build it up to another level/different way of doing things. Till that time comes, I understand hiring people like Hogan, Hardy, RVD, Angle, Elijah Burke/Pope, Kennedy/Anderson, etc. NOW, those of us that keep up with them know where to see them and watch, so it helps us (the internet people) go there to see our favorites that have left the WWE, but it doesn't help those NOT in the "know" as I come by people all the time that don't realise Hogan and Flair are around still, don't realise Sting has been around at all for the last 10 years, nor people like Raven or Rhino, etc. These people are people that are known, but since TNA is not in as many homes, there is a serious amount of people that don't even know their favorite wrestler's are still around....

 

However, they do know about Cena, Big Show, Undertaker, John Morrison, The Miz, Randy Orton, etc. They know about these people even though they don't watch... because people still talk wrestling, and when they do they talk about what the "E" is doing. A good while back, it took years to build a great character up, now you can do this in about six months... in the WWE. In TNA it would take years, if your really wanting it to work, unless you get them from OUTSIDE sources (WWE).

 

didnt joe just walk in from ROH and instanlty hit it big then? yh he didnt go stright into the main event but from his first match there he was a pull and looked like the badist s.o.b. on there roster.

 

i think a big reason for quick stars in wwe is mainly down to most guys not being much diffrent from the rest. it dont take alot to stand out in wwe right now. while there roster is far from in bad shape alot of guys there are some stagment in there spots in the and for some reason they seem to think that pushing a few guys from out no-where is going to help them out in the long term.

 

Orton took so long to get really over because of his gimmick of the arrogent good looking guy at the start when he join evo then not long after a failed face turned he became the whole 3rd gen guy when he was with his dad on smackdown then the same with legacy which while they fitted him and made him a well known to wrestling fans neither of them where really going to turn him into the biggist thing in wrestling

[djthefunkchris]

didnt joe just walk in from ROH and instanlty hit it big then? yh he didnt go stright into the main event but from his first match there he was a pull and looked like the badist s.o.b. on there roster.

 

i think a big reason for quick stars in wwe is mainly down to most guys not being much diffrent from the rest.

 

I don't mean to <snip> out your post like this, but I wanted to concentrate here for a minute. I'm in agreement with you mostly, just want to make sure I'm understood a little bit.

 

Your talking about Samoa Joe in TNA, right? If this is the case, then I think you can understand where they were at that point compared to where they are now. Joe coming in and being a the badist s. o. b. on their roster isn't something that gave them huge ratings or really anything outside of what Joe already had before he went there... a Huge following for an Indy wrestler. Still bassically the same after all this time, he might have created a "few" more fans, but it's not in the same boat as he would be if he debuted in the WWE and was successfully thrown in the Main Event in the same way. That being said, he probably would (to this day) have a hard time getting him over in the span of months, let alone right away, in the WWE. I think we can look at Umaga (in the fact has some skill, built similar, etc.) and figure that it would take about the same amount of time for Joe to become that popular as well (in the WWE).

 

The second point you made I can agree with. They have a sort of cookie cutter thing they do with most of the wrestler's... although they've added a few types since the popularity of Mysterio... we now have our Even Bourne's and "flashy" high flying mover types, and they are introduced as such.

 

These are standards that have proven to be a way to get someone over. I would figure if they can't get any momentum with "standards" then I'm not going to invest alot of time in them working out some other gimmick that might work better. I'll do my best to make the standard work, and then I'll let it go where it seems to go, and hope the worker grasps onto something.

 

As for people that do end up standing out, I'm going to work something special with them, and hope they stand out even more. However, it's a standard "good" vs. "Bad" that is going to always be there, unless something drastic occurs. I would think you would have to have an amazing skill on the roster to "break" the mold though. I don't see it working just because the creative team decides to do something unique.. it takes the talent to carry it out as well.