Astil Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 The books, I liked the books. Besides aren't you the one working on a mafia game dedicated to Twilight... I so wish I had a like button. Not anymore. I canceled it for C.C. Glad I did too. My main point is that it may be a bit of wrestlecrap, but at least it's fun mindless wrestlecrap. /shrug. It could be worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 The 7/9 edition of Raw did a 3.2 rating, with 4,407,000 viewers. The show did hours of 3.11 and 3.22. It went up lolz. Seriously guys if you don't like the direction they are giving you right now stop watching/spending money on them and/or also start supporting the competition be it ROH, CHIKARA, PWG, CZW your local indy, extreme rising, DGUSA/Evolve, international companies or current TNA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moon_lit_tears Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Not anymore. I canceled it for C.C. Glad I did too. My main point is that it may be a bit of wrestlecrap, but at least it's fun mindless wrestlecrap. /shrug. It could be worse. You really did? I'm okay with "wrestlecrap" to a point, but really...it's kinda getting out of hand when you get less than a quarter of the shows time dedicated to actual...ya know...wrestling...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unregistered Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 It went up lolz. Seriously guys if you don't like the direction they are giving you right now stop watching/spending money on them and/or also start supporting the competition be it ROH, CHIKARA, PWG, CZW your local indy, extreme rising, DGUSA/Evolve, international companies or current TNA. Good point. I watch Raw myself, but haven't spent a dollar on WWE in over four years. It's really helped the product I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I've heard this before, but can't find anything (quotes or video's) that support that's what its about. Right around the time they changed their name to WWE I heard this very strongly, but found that they couldn't use the term WWF anymore, because it was taken by someone else. I heard it again when they changed to just WWE, but when I look around for actual facts about it, I here that it has to do with them going into other area's, and produced by World Wrestling Entertainment, doesn't sound right for movies (and whatever other area's/business ventures they are talking about). Perhaps people close to Vince (or "them") might have said something, but... It's hard for me to take anyone's word if they have any bitterness in them. If (for example), someone could show me something from HHH or Cena or even Punk that said something similar, I could probably understand where these thoughts come from more easily. Other then that, just saying "Everyone knows why" or "It's completely obvious" etc.. It can make sense, but it also makes sense what the actual comments I've read said. I mean, from another interview Vince did a few years back, they asked what he would do if WWE fell, and he said he was only sure that he would be in the wrestling business in some capacity, because he loved it more then anything. Doesn't sound like someone embarrassed to be in Wrestling, to me. Perhaps embarrassed to act as if it's an actual sport (I would feel foolish if I acted like that), but not the business itself. It was way before the name change during Rock and Wrestling and the New Generation that it started. Watch some shoots of people around during those times and they confirm it. Corney being the one that stands out most. While I don't agree with a lot of his booking etc and he tends to exaggerate things he doesn't tend to lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrows Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 MLT, you should love AJ. Crazy chick going after two muscular dudes at the same time. I thought you liked Twilight. #teamPunk Women always hate other successful women. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unregistered Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Women always hate other successful women. Period. Good point. Very good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Good point. I watch Raw myself, but haven't spent a dollar on WWE in over four years. It's really helped the product I think Also spread the word etc. As it hasn't been enough people yet. WWE has sick brand loyalty and because they are the by far Biggest fish people tend to stick with them as well. Gotta make it actively clear that bigger is not better and that watching others isn't disloyal. One other but that is more a personal grip and hard to explain is that the problems are structural not incidental you can replace whole creative and nothing will change, make Ziggler and Punk (summer of Punk 2 version) world champs and the product will stay the same. Better yes but the same. Structure will only change if they have to, only way to do that is to build up competition if the competition deserves it and/or to turn away your eyes and pocket book. Edit: Btw I get it if you don't won't take my word for it as I am a known TNA fan, although those that have followed me longer know me not to be a blind one, but I don't think that I am the only one that thinks this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astil Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Also spread the word etc. As it hasn't been enough people yet. WWE has sick brand loyalty and because they are the by far Biggest fish people tend to stick with them as well. Gotta make it actively clear that bigger is not better and that watching others isn't disloyal. One other but that is more a personal grip and hard to explain is that the problems are structural not incidental you can replace whole creative and nothing will change, make Ziggler and Punk (summer of Punk 2 version) world champs and the product will stay the same. Better yes but the same. Structure will only change if they have to, only way to do that is to build up competition if the competition deserves it and/or to turn away your eyes and pocket book. Edit: Btw I get it if you don't won't take my word for it as I am a known TNA fan, although those that have followed me longer know me not to be a blind one, but I don't think that I am the only one that thinks this. I think praising good helps too. I bought the new Daniel Bryan shirt because I wanted WWE to know he was a real main eventer with selling power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moon_lit_tears Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Women always hate other successful women. Period. Wrong. I'm all for girl power. I've said I don't care for many of the Divas but I like a few of them. I didn't mind Kelly Kelly to a point. I just think they need to tone the AJ stuff down that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astil Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Wrong. I'm all for girl power. I've said I don't care for many of the Divas but I like a few of them. I didn't mind Kelly Kelly to a point. I just think they need to tone the AJ stuff down that's all. Hate Kelly Kelly. Hate. She's a robot. Just ... ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moon_lit_tears Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Hate Kelly Kelly. Hate. She's a robot. Just ... ugh. I admit her in ring sucked, but she was full of energy and was a bit ditzy. I'm glad they didn't take it to far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrows Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I admit her in ring sucked, but she was full of energy and was a bit ditzy. I'm glad they didn't take it to far. She was quite possibly the lowest point of WWE Divas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astil Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I admit her in ring sucked, but she was full of energy and was a bit ditzy. I'm glad they didn't take it to far. She was a bloody exobitionist who flashed people to distract them so her client (Mike Knox iirc) could win! Plus she was with two at once too (Knox and Punk, again iirc) In fact Punk seems to get all the divas. Hmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moon_lit_tears Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 She was a bloody exobitionist who flashed people to distract them so her client (Mike Knox iirc) could win! Plus she was with two at once too (Knox and Punk, again iirc) In fact Punk seems to get all the divas. Hmmm. Well I actually enjoyed watching her. I just can't stand AJ. I'd rather hear nails on a chunk board than watch her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astil Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Well I actually enjoyed watching her. I just can't stand AJ. I'd rather hear nails on a chunk board than watch her. Opinions. We have different ones. Although she's not that hot to me. Hotter than barbie Blank (such a fitting name) but not that hot. Fun though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Look, I'm sorry you don't like the term, but the feeling still stands. NWO was great because it felt "real". People loved Austin vs McMahon because of the real life feelings toward bosses. It honestly wasn't long ago that heels we're being run out of buildings by crazy fans with knives. Saying that the large part of wrestling's audience pre-1980, found the wrestling to be fake... Is a bit silly. I admit. I don't want the old southern style back, but I do watch most of my wrestling from outside of the country, because at least the sports aspect of wrestling is whats important. I'd rather watch something where the marque word is wrestling. I know WWE isn't ever going to do that again, but I do take offense to you saying Vince was doing anything BUT mocking his fans intellegence the past 30 years. Especially to the fans that take any real interest in the buisness past his company. I don't dislike it either, just trying to understand it is all. Outside of that I honestly agree with most things you say. The only disagreement comes from a different outlook really. For example, you use specifically "wrestling fans" and the one's that showed up at shows (back then), were big fans, but not the "general public". I'm talking more generically, including people that are not fans of wrestling. They had the same answer as to why they didn't like wrestling back then as they do now, "it's not real". Interestingly enough, Wrestling become bigger when they quit pretending. Now all the "big fans" are in the "know" or "smarks" and quite a few think no one else is, when in reality everyone else that didn't watch knew already (I watched, but I knew too, as well as well... Everyone I watched with, long before Steve Austin was "Stone Cold"). Far as what I said, that was what Vince said not me. Vince: "Wrestling promoter's you know, tried to sell this as a real sport. It never has been, I came along and said what are you talking about, this is the greatest theatrical event in the world, let's just tell everybody what it is." I don't know about you, but trying to "sell" something fake as if it is "real" is insulting MY intelligence. That's just me though. IF you would rather someone try to "pretend" as if what you are watching is a real and actual competition, then I can respect that. Myself, I've known for too long that it's not an actual sport, so I can't watch it "thinking" that any match is a result of what would actually happen if they were really competing against each other. To try and convince me otherwise would make me feel you're foolish for thinking I'm a fool (although I don't claim to NOT be a fool:)). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I think praising good helps too. I bought the new Daniel Bryan shirt because I wanted WWE to know he was a real main eventer with selling power. Yup my bad on that omission but darn that RAW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makhai Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Hate Kelly Kelly. Hate. She's a robot. Just ... ugh. I can tolerate her because she at least accomplishes the mission statement of being a diva. Look hot, get on Maxim and Playboy, be super-cheap targeted advertising... show up once a month to kill our crowds so we can properly assess our talent without the "burden" of a hot crowd. You gotta grade them on what they're being asked to do. And that's what divas are asked to do. Layla on the other hand... Whether the Sofia Cortez's or the Sara Del Rey's of the world are signalling a change in that grading curve? God I hope so... I really, really hope so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 This may sound bad, but Vince can't step down/die soon enough IMO. If all of these interviews are actually true about Vince always rewriting things and often not feeling the need to fill in plot holes then I think the company would be much better without him making decisions concerning booking. The best time period in wrestling was the Heyman ran SD days. That and HHH has really impressed me with his signings over the past year or so. Kharma, Mistico, The KoW (all 3 now), and now a host of DGUSA guys (Ambrose, Brodie, PAC allegedly), I have optimism in HHH if he gets even more control over the company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 This may sound bad, but Vince can't step down/die soon enough IMO. If all of these interviews are actually true about Vince always rewriting things and often not feeling the need to fill in plot holes then I think the company would be much better without him making decisions concerning booking. The best time period in wrestling was the Heyman ran SD days. That and HHH has really impressed me with his signings over the past year or so. Kharma, Mistico, The KoW (all 3 now), and now a host of DGUSA guys (Ambrose, Brodie, PAC allegedly), I have optimism in HHH if he gets even more control over the company. I remember him being asked what his secret was (Heyman), and he said something to the extent of... It's easy, here are the bad guys, you build them up, have them kick butt, build them up and build them up, then bring in the good guy that's going to kick their butt. Simple formula. Doesn't matter if they can wrestler or not, you take what they can do and build that part up, take what they can't do and hide it. Simple, nothing to it. Who are these two guys? Why are they fighting? And why should I care? If you can answer those questions, you'll sell a ticket or a ppv. If you can't answer the questions, who's going to buy it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrows Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I remember him being asked what his secret was (Heyman), and he said something to the extent of... It's easy, here are the bad guys, you build them up, have them kick butt, build them up and build them up, then bring in the good guy that's going to kick their butt. Simple formula. Doesn't matter if they can wrestler or not, you take what they can do and build that part up, take what they can't do and hide it. Simple, nothing to it. Who are these two guys? Why are they fighting? And why should I care? If you can answer those questions, you'll sell a ticket or a ppv. If you can't answer the questions, who's going to buy it? Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 That is the basic gist of it most times but you have to do it in a compelling way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 That is the basic gist of it most times but you have to do it in a compelling way. It's very simplified, as if to say "It's not rocket science you know?!" The thing is, when your talking WWE, you're not just thinking 18 to 38 (or whatever the generic age is that most people bring up), you absolutely, HAVE to think of 8 to 16 year olds. You're going to merchandise toys, and believe it or not those are great money makers. Stephanie said HHH's fanbase is around 8 to 16 years old, and probably that is normal with quite a bit of their talent. So you have to have the Santino's and Hornswaggle's for that appeal... which means sometimes they have to slip into the story lines as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Wasn't contending that but its about finding a good balance and doing it in a good way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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