Customization

[haveband]

I have to agree with the others here, a huge part of my wanting to purchase the game was based solely on the fact that there was supposed to be an in game editor. The first thing I did when I purchased the game was look for the editor.. I guess we'll have to wait for a patch for it. Although it's a bit disappointing because we don't know if the patch for it will be out this weekend, next week, next month.

[mh2365]

I just went to the store to buy some pampers hopefully a nice change will stop all the freaking babies from crying in this thread.

[SkyDog]

[QUOTE=mh2365]I just went to the store to buy some pampers hopefully a nice change will stop all the freaking babies from crying in this thread.[/QUOTE]:D I don't get the importance of an editor one iota. Is it to cheat?

[haveband]

mh2365...i dont see any of this as crying as you put it.. When you go to a restaurant and see everything on the menu and order it, you're going to tell me that you would still eat it if it were undercooked? If it called for cheese and there wasn't any, you wouldn't voice that to someone, you'd just sit there and take it, pay full price and then go. I highly doubt that. My only gripe is that Arlie did say in this thread that it would be a part of the game, not in a patch. I loved playing the demo and couldn't wait for the final release and yes I was upset there wasn't an editor as Arlie stated here [url]http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7992[/url] that the final game would have an in-game editor for players. As far as cheating is concerned, hey if you paid for the game its yours, doesn't matter what you want to do with the editor. Me, heck, I just really want the ability to edit the player names, uniform #'s, etc.

[21sec]

Can you edit player names, ratings in the full version with Acess or is this still disabled ala the demo. I will say it is dissappointing to here the in-game editor was not included as I was all set to purchase BBCF this morning. Now ,y decision is up in the air.

[Arlie Rahn]

There will be an editor in the game. The problem was the scope of the editor increased significantly based on your feedback and we wanted to do it right. I made this exact comment back on 12/6 in the "who's going to help with real rosters thread": [url]http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?p=63365#post63365[/url] [quote]Guys, we've been trying to setup a good editing process but it's been difficult given the ratings range of BBCF, polls and number of ratings. I would hate for you guys to put in a lot of time and have the ratings not work correctly or polls/simming not work properly because of it. What I would like to do is release the game, let everyone play with fictional rosters and get an idea of what ratings do what. Then, after a few weeks of playing and testing an editor, work with you guys (and others) to come up with a process that makes this work well. Also, in that timeframe after release, I will try and write an "editing FAQ" like what Mike D talked about to get you guys a better idea of what ratings map to what. Because all of the athletic skills (speed, strength, acceleration,...) are on a uniform 1-100 scale, I think you guys will need a little help to create good rosters.[/quote] This comment was made three days before release. I knew that my earlier comments would have lead people to expect the editor in this first version so I wanted to be clear with our reasons and make sure people knew this days before the release. Editors (when done right) are very tricky. You want to make sure people understand the ratings, have a method to import and a give users enough information to limit the "redos". I just did not feel we had the time to do that for the first release, especially when there were other aspects of the game we were working on that were vital to normal gameplay. The way the editor will work is that each of you will have the ability to editor college player names and attributes, as well as skills. You will be able to set "potential" values for each skill to make players more tailored to your preferences. We are going to allow you to then import a roster from a save game to use as the initial roster for a new single player or multiplayer game. So, if someone can release a save with rosters others want to use, it's a simple process for users (or leagues) to use these rosters as an initial player pool. This, IMO, is a much more complex process thansimply changing a few numbers and simming again (which was the original plan). We are trying to make this process one where people don't need MS Access (a big request) and one where people can use these rosters for future sims (importing). So, like I said on the 6th, I would ask that you guys get used to the ratings and skills used in the game with fictional players. Look at some of the better players at each position and notice the athletic skills. IE, a "fast" DE may have a 65 or 70, which would only be a slow RB. A "strong" corner might have a 60 strength, but that would be an extremely weak OT. Perhaps it would have been better to simply release a base editor with no options as was stated in that thread and not taken some of the ideas I was PMed from by some of the mod community to make their life easier. I had hoped that by stating this 2-3 days before the release in the main "editing" thread in this forum it would be enough. And, not one complaint was logged in that thread so I thought the community was OK with this.

[wareagle]

First off when it is stated to be a feature in the game I guess we foolishy expected :mad: What you may deem as a good or usable feature I may not see the importance of, but it does not change the expectations of a group as a whole. The editor is not to cheat, I just have a very hard time having a quarterback named Peter Abdul-Rahim or a linebacker named Arian Nations and such. It is my preference to want to change these and it was a feature that in this thread was stated by Arlie to be there. Like I said before it is not a show stopper for me, I just wish I would have know going in. As for you mh2365, grow the hell up and sut the f&#k up :mad:

[Arlie Rahn]

Again, for those of you upset at the editor for not being in the release, why didn't any of you complain in the thread we explained this in on 12/6? [url]http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?p=63365#post63365[/url] Had people come out and stated it was a big deal to wait for the first update for the editor, we might have held the game and not released it. but, given there were no complaints, I figured most were OK with my logic and that having a couple weeks to tinker with long term development and understanding the ratings would help limit frustrations when people put time into the mammouth task of editing 119 teams.

[wareagle]

Again I want to stress it is not a show stopper for me. I only care about editing names and not the ratings. I can wait for something. As far as stating something in a thread from three days ago before release I apologize but I did not have the opportunity to see it as I was out of town working mid-week and could not frequent the boards. While I was on occasionally to post, I did not reply or have the chance to read many new posts that may have been made. Again, I am sure you will create this ability and it is a great game. I can wait on the editor but just will not get wrapped up in creating a league I will move forward on for many seasons until this feature is released. It will at least give me the opportunity to play the game past on season and learn to see how everything works.

[21sec]

I went ahead and purchased the game and will wait anxiously (hopefully not too long ;) ), and until then will dive into access to see what mayhem I may create. Arlie I have some questions/ideas on editing attributes and was wondering can I PM you and get your opinion.

[Orsalak]

Wow. That was a little over the line wareagle. I agree that mh2365 needs to respect others opinion, but we should all try to conduct ourselves in a civil manner. I'm sure the insinuation that this feature was for cheating didn't help though. As for Arlie response, I thought what you said was adequate myself. Maybe in the future, a post listing features that didn't make the game and when they are planned to be released stickied to the top of the forum (and maybe linked on the main page) might help alleviate these concerns. I just downloaded the game and I'm looking forward to it. The demo was very fun, thanks for your hard work Arlie! :)

[Arlie Rahn]

I'm not trying to state some of you don't have the right to be disappointed. I'm simply stating the reasons I did what I did regarding the editor.

[Arlie Rahn]

[QUOTE=21sec]I went ahead and purchased the game and will wait anxiously (hopefully not too long ;) ), and until then will dive into access to see what mayhem I may create. Arlie I have some questions/ideas on editing attributes and was wondering can I PM you and get your opinion.[/QUOTE] Of course. One of the nice things about holding it is that I can adjust the process to certain ideas (if feasible).

[Arlie Rahn]

[QUOTE=Orsalak]As for Arlie response, I thought what you said was adequate myself. Maybe in the future, a post listing features that didn't make the game and when they are planned to be released stickied to the top of the forum (and maybe linked on the main page) might help alleviate these concerns.[/QUOTE] That's not a bad idea, although it's usually not good form to advertise what your game does not have ;) What I should have done is repond to the original thread with my first comment instead of chosing the active one on editors during the 6th. Again, the last thing I wanted to do was lead anyone down a path of expecting a feature and not seeing it. So, for that I apologize. But, the game will have an editor once we get everything worked out with the details.

[Miral]

So then, one should learn the game and its nuances, and get to know the intricacies, and wait for the upcoming patch will include an editor. Thread comes to its conclusion.... What does it matter if you buy it now without an editor and wait for the patch, or wait for the editor to buy the game, either way you'll buy the game and have an editor with it. I'm sure there are other issues that deserve your griping far more. :D

[wareagle]

You are right Orsalak :o I usually never respond negatively and if I feel it most times keep it tom myself. I apologize to mh2365 and anyone that read the post. I respect everyones opinion but felt maybe mine might have been "kicked to the curb". At any rate, I never intend to shed any negative light on this game. It is truly a great game with much potential, not to mention the fact that Grey Dog has created something that I have been waiting for years to have.

[cody8200]

[QUOTE=SkyDog]:D I don't get the importance of an editor one iota. Is it to cheat?[/QUOTE] Dont give me that Jim Gindin response man. You and I know that people like to name players what they would like to name them. Personally, I will be creating the entire Big ten from this last year...every player, every rating. There is nothing wrong with customization.

[Roger Kaputnik]

[QUOTE=Arlie Rahn]Again, for those of you upset at the editor for not being in the release, why didn't any of you complain in the thread we explained this in on 12/6? [url]http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?p=63365#post63365[/url] Had people come out and stated it was a big deal to wait for the first update for the editor, we might have held the game and not released it. but, given there were no complaints, I figured most were OK with my logic and that having a couple weeks to tinker with long term development and understanding the ratings would help limit frustrations when people put time into the mammouth task of editing 119 teams.[/QUOTE] Sorry, Arlie, but that is total bull****. Several of us have mentioned that we wanted to be able to edit players and you indicated that we would be able to do so in the released game. The reason nobody complained is that you seemed to be saying that what we want was in the game.

[SkyDog]

[QUOTE=cody8200]Dont give me that Jim Gindin response man. You and I know that people like to name players what they would like to name them. Personally, I will be creating the entire Big ten from this last year...every player, every rating. There is nothing wrong with customization.[/QUOTE]I said I don't [i][u]get[/u] [/i]the importance of an editor. That's different from not knowing that some people want to name players. I am aware that some people have a bizarre need to do so, even though the familiar ones to most of them will all be gone in two seasons. It just makes no sense to me. I'll say it again: I don't get the importance of an editor one iota.

[Roger Kaputnik]

[QUOTE=SkyDog]I said I don't [i][u]get[/u] [/i]the importance of an editor. That's different from not knowing that some people want to name players. I am aware that some people have a bizarre need to do so, even though the familiar ones to most of them will all be gone in two seasons. It just makes no sense to me. I'll say it again: I don't get the importance of an editor one iota.[/QUOTE] So please butt out if you don't care. I don't care about the details of the option so I stayed out of that thread and others that were not important to me. It matters to those of us who asked for this earlier so please respect us like we respected you in other threads.

[SkyDog]

[QUOTE=Roger Kaputnik]So please butt out if you don't care. I don't care about the details of the option so I stayed out of that thread and others that were not important to me. It matters to those of us who asked for this earlier so please respect us like we respected you in other threads.[/QUOTE]Oh, come on. A guy said something funny, and I responded to it. The other guy misrepresented my response, so I corrected him. Lighten up, Francis.

[Arlie Rahn]

[QUOTE=Roger Kaputnik]Sorry, Arlie, but that is total bull****. Several of us have mentioned that we wanted to be able to edit players and you indicated that we would be able to do so in the released game. The reason nobody complained is that you seemed to be saying that what we want was in the game.[/QUOTE] Roger, send me an email and I will authorize elicense to remove the game from your PC and refund your money. The last thing I want is people out there feeling like they purchased a game with an editor and find it not there. So, if someone was expecting the editor in the final version yesterday and purchased it accordingly, we will agree to have Viatech remove the game install from their PC and refund their money.

[cody8200]

[QUOTE=SkyDog]I said I don't [i][u]get[/u] [/i]the importance of an editor. That's different from not knowing that some people want to name players. I am aware that some people have a bizarre need to do so, even though the familiar ones to most of them will all be gone in two seasons. It just makes no sense to me. I'll say it again: I don't get the importance of an editor one iota.[/QUOTE] Ok then, ahow about being able to recreate historical games using editing of players. That would be a legitimate reason to have an editor.

[Senator]

SD and I have, for 5 years at least, discussed the merits of editing names, ect. In FOF, no one pushed more than I did to be able to customize the game so we could have historical rosters. I don't think Skydog used one file we created, but we have from 1970 to current rosters, so you could recreate the NFL. To me, that sparks my imagination and is very cool and fun. He doesn't need it. It is just a matter of taste in the game. He doesn't mean anything personal, it is just his opinion, and you have to respect it. He respects ours, he just doesn't agree. Lively debate is a healthy thing.

[Roger Kaputnik]

[QUOTE=Arlie Rahn]Roger, send me an email and I will authorize elicense to remove the game from your PC and refund your money. The last thing I want is people out there feeling like they purchased a game with an editor and find it not there. So, if someone was expecting the editor in the final version yesterday and purchased it accordingly, we will agree to have Viatech remove the game install from their PC and refund their money.[/QUOTE] That doesn't solve the problem. It's a cop out. I would rather have the editor.