Total Championship Wrestling: Tuesday Night Wars

[Teh_Showtime]

<p>Great show. didnt expect Law to win but the finish was done in a manner that was very well executed.</p><p> </p><p>

fwiw Bach/Taylor isnt quoted and the New Wave retained according to the bold <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/wink.png.686f06e511ee1fbf6bdc7d82f6831e53.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Bigpapa42]

<p></p><div style="text-align:center;"><p><strong>Post-Show Thoughts</strong></p></div><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p>

That took entirely longer than it should have. I'm still not completely satisfied with a couple of the match write-ups, but I didn't want to end up taking more time. So they will have to suffice.</p><p> </p><p>

-I don't think the Samoans title win surprised anyone. They are right there in terms of overness, but I don't know if they really established the legitimacy to take down the New Wave...</p><p> </p><p>

-the Law title win probably surprised a few people. The logic seemed to be that Law isn't that much better in the ring than Rocky Golden. Which is true. But he is better. The change sets up a number of things. I wanted to do the change in a way that didn't completely destroy the mystique that Golden's reign as champion build up over nearly a year. </p><p> </p><p>

-as for RDJ v Cornell... I felt like I could go either way. It really wasn't a "good guy gets the win the end" here so much as what worked best going forward with other storylines. </p><p> </p><p>

I have a Total Mark segment I want to post in the next day or two, then I'll give an update on the future of this one. Thanks for reading everyone. </p><p> </p><p>

Edit - thanks Showtime. Fixed.</p>

[ampulator]

Actually, I don't think anyone would dispute Rick Law IS better, but I don't know how much better he is in your game.

[The Pink Stranger]

Wow...Total Mayhem was great! Really liked Peak shaking Benson's hand. It puts Benson over while displaying that even insane Eddie Peak has honor in TCW. The tag title change didn't surprise me, I felt that SVU were plenty over to take the titles. Ino's win shocked me most, followed by Law's title win.

 

It seems like the playing field is pretty level at this point. Hawkins beat Golden when he was champ, now Ino has beaten Hawkins. Tornado won his last match with Ino and has now lost to Minnesota. RDJ has won his last match ever with Cornell, but of course Tommy is Tommy, so he's always going to be a top guy (plus he dominanted the majority of their fued). I'm dying to see this play out!

 

I HOPE THIS DOES NOT END. If you do end it though, maybe you could give a quick write up (could even be just a bare-bones outline) indicating what the future would have held.

[SWF Fan]

Wow...Total Mayhem was great! Really liked Peak shaking Benson's hand. It puts Benson over while displaying that even insane Eddie Peak has honor in TCW.

 

Undertaker and Jeff Hardy moment is how I saw that happening there, I even expected to read Benson falling back to the mat in exhaustion after.

[Bigpapa42]

Actually, I don't think anyone would dispute Rick Law IS better, but I don't know how much better he is in your game.

 

Overall performance skills of Rick Law are 81 and 75 for Rocky Golden. In most games, I look for an average of about 80 to push a guy in singles action. By comparison, Ricky Dale Johnson has 79 overall.

 

I have yet to see how he does as champion, but Rick Law's current skill level is basically at the lowest level I would usually look for in a guy I would consider as a champion.

 

Wow...Total Mayhem was great! Really liked Peak shaking Benson's hand. It puts Benson over while displaying that even insane Eddie Peak has honor in TCW. The tag title change didn't surprise me, I felt that SVU were plenty over to take the titles. Ino's win shocked me most, followed by Law's title win.

 

It seems like the playing field is pretty level at this point. Hawkins beat Golden when he was champ, now Ino has beaten Hawkins. Tornado won his last match with Ino and has now lost to Minnesota. RDJ has won his last match ever with Cornell, but of course Tommy is Tommy, so he's always going to be a top guy (plus he dominanted the majority of their fued). I'm dying to see this play out!

 

I HOPE THIS DOES NOT END. If you do end it though, maybe you could give a quick write up (could even be just a bare-bones outline) indicating what the future would have held.

 

Glad you enjoyed the show.

 

Things look fairly even... but not quite as even as it might appear at first. How you win is almost as important as whether you win. I have a fairly strict tiered structure to TCW, and I think its something that fans would recognize. I've always thought of it as a Japanese-style approach but I'm not sure that's true. Basically, there is a small group of true top stars - the "aces" if you want. They are typically expected to defeat anyone outside their group, and would go into any match against another "ace" with a good chance to win. Below them is a group that might be equal to the top group in terms of skill, popularity, and momentum, but they don't have the legitimacy of wins over the aces. It takes wins - clean wins - over someone in that top group to move a worker up and give them that legitimacy. A tainted win over an ace, much like looking really good in a close loss, puts a worker close to that level... but they need that clean singles win. That was actually I had Cornell in a PPV match against Golden - the champ got that legitimacy when he won the belt from Cornell and went over Keith, but another win over the clear top ace would reinforce it. Hawkins win over Golden was sorta tainted. So it doesn't move him up to that next level.

 

The Ino-Hawkins match is one that I didn't do justice. I wanted to get across the Hawkins had some trouble with the size of Ino - so its not his talent that fails him but moreso the lack of experience. To show that maybe he's not as ready for that last step to the top as he believes. Another reason for the Ino win - and Minnesota's win over Tornado as well - is that it puts two legit babyface challengers in place for the new heel champion, Law - and he already has a history with Ino. That was a small consideration in RDJ going over Cornell as well.

 

Regarding the Peak-Benson moment, it was intended to do a few things. The whole idea behind Benson manning up and taking his beatings was a backward way to establish the newcomer some legitimacy with the fans. Sure, you can do that with key wins, but I wanted to try something different. A different way to get it across to fans that this "flippity-floppity ex-SWF guy" is tough enough to make it in TCW. It also shows that there was some intent behind the schoolyard bullying of Peak - that there is a method to the maniac.

 

I have yet to decide what I am going to do going forward. After I finish up the Total Mark and post it, I'll probably take a break and see how I feel in time. When I do end this - whether its after this show or if it continues for dozens more - I will lay out my plans in some detail. Significant detail, likely. I want to let those readers know where things were going, and it also makes me feel a bit better about ending things. But as I said, no decision yet.

 

Undertaker and Jeff Hardy moment is how I saw that happening there, I even expected to read Benson falling back to the mat in exhaustion after.

 

I wasn't watching the WWE during that period and don't recall seeing that moment, so I can't even claim to having taken that moment from there. At least intentionally...

[SWF Fan]

I wasn't watching the WWE during that period and don't recall seeing that moment, so I can't even claim to having taken that moment from there. At least intentionally...

 

I don't think you wrote it in the sense of that its kinda just how I imagined it. The way the flippy floppy little guy gives it everything he's got against the bad ass, big, monster heel and still comes up short but for the fact he didn't back down and gave it his all he got respect because its obvious why they both are in that ring.

 

Kinda how I saw it really. In related news that totally should have been the start of a Hardy megapush that night instead of like 6 years later.

[ampulator]

I don't think you wrote it in the sense of that its kinda just how I imagined it. The way the flippy floppy little guy gives it everything he's got against the bad ass, big, monster heel and still comes up short but for the fact he didn't back down and gave it his all he got respect because its obvious why they both are in that ring.

 

Kinda how I saw it really. In related news that totally should have been the start of a Hardy megapush that night instead of like 6 years later.

Actually, six years ago it wouldn't have made sense. Hardy's base just wasn't there. You know those "Twilight" mainstream goth fans? Yeah, those are Jeff Hardy fans. They weren't there six years ago.

 

In any case, I'm absolutely shocked that Rick Law hasn't improved more. Considering how much you made Rocky Golden improve, Rick Law shouldn't be that hard unless he has low Potential (literally).

[Bigpapa42]

Was Jeff Hardy starting to get over when he first went solo, in 2002 and 2003? Before he left? I honetly don't know... but if he hadn't been awa for two years, then conceivably, then he may have positioned for a push earlier...?

 

As for Rick Law, he has improved. Fairly consistently - about a point a month in most skills. So I doubt he's cursed with poor potential in this game. There are two notably differences betwee him and Golden, I think... One is that his Performance skills start a fair bit strong, so the increase slows a bit. The second is that I more intentionally focused on trying to improve Golden - he had frequent matches tagging with Bryan Vessey. I tagged Rick Law with Sam Keith on a few occassions, but he more frequently tagged with Troy Tornado, who is better than Law in terms of Performance skills but not massively better. My hope with Law is that over time, I could get his Performance skills to about where Troy Tornado starts. Whereas with Golden, I would be happy if he eventually got to where Law starts.

[Bigpapa42]

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k235/Bigpapa42_2006/Wrestling/TCW/Logos/TotalMark.jpg

 

Mark 17.0

A Community of Mother-in-Laws

 

I once again finding myself coming back to a simple truth - you cannot make everyone happy.

 

Last night, Total Mayhem XV was held. By almost any measure, the event was a success. A crowd of nearly thirty thousand fans watched it live and the initial pay per view buyrate estimates look fairly strong for TCW. The show had 8 matches and spanned a full four hours of action. The show might be the best overall wrestling show any American wrestling promotion puts on this year, and the wrestling action itself was a well ahead of anything that the SWF or USPW could produce. A couple of the matches could possibly be contenders for the Match of the Year, at least in American wrestling.

 

So when I logged onto my favorite wrestling forum this morning, I was stupidly expecting to see dedicated wrestling fans singing the praises of this fine showing. Sometimes, I'm an idiot.

 

The TCW section of the forum is quite active, and there were dozens of threads that related to Total Mayhem in some manner. Besides the main show discussion thread, which was well over a thousand posts, there were busy threads that had both hit several hundred posts already.

 

The first was a discussion of Rick Law as the new TCW World Heavyweight champion. Given how many fans on this particular board were unhappy with Rocky Golden's title reign and wanted to see a change, one might expect them to be happy about the Law win. One would then be expecting wrong.

 

The common complaint seems to be that Law isn't that much better in the ring than Golden is. That he is not as skilled as Tommy Cornell. Well, truthfully, almost no one is as skilled overall as Tommy Cornell. You can look all over the globe and not find find the same combination of diverse skills, technical understanding, and ability to entertain as "Rough Justice". I honestly feel like Vessey, Minnesota, Keith, Tornado, Hawkins, and probably even Peak are slightly better workers than Law... but its not a massive gap. Law in the ring is on the same level as Ricky Dale Johnson, and he's done just fine as champion multiple times.

 

So while Law might not be a major upgrade over Golden, he is still an upgrade. To me, the greatest aspect of the upgrade is Law's ability to tell a more diverse story in the ring. Golden did quite well as a champion by following the Golden Formula... which is really just a rip-off of the Strong Formula of building everything around the big babyface comeback. Although Golden has made the formula work quite well for himself, its still the same story match after match. He can diversify if the opponent is up to carrying things, but really only then.

 

Another problem I have, reading through this thread, is that there seems to be a widely-accepted expectation that Law's title reign will be lengthy. Golden held the belt for eight months. However, in the case of Golden, a lengthy reign was quite necessary to fully establish him as a top star and legit champion. Law is further along in that regard already. So he won't need a long reign. He may still get one, but the necessity is different.

 

After reading through all the posts in this thread, I should know better than to tackle the other lengthy thread regarding the Total Mayhem show. I take a look anyway. It's a lively debate regarding where the Cornell-RDJ match fits in the hierarchy of all the great matches they have had over the years.

 

The Final Reckoning match seems to have been well received and well liked by most of the fans posting. Although a few posters hated it, the stoppage seemed to be a solid finish to the epic feud. Some even put it in the top ten, which is about where I place. Low in the top ten.

 

Its not the discussion or assumptions in this thread that bother me so much as it is the degree of critique. Dozens of dedicated wrestling fans who seem to put almost-scientific analysis of the match ahead of simply enjoying it. I am not one to denigrate the process of analysis by fans - it was a key part of what got me to where I am. But for me, it was always about breaking down and analyzing something I loved and enjoyed... So many of the folks in this thread seem to get no enjoyment from it. It really makes me wonder about wrestling fans...

 

And that's what my issue comes down to... lack of enjoyment by these "fans". If you no longer actually find any enjoyment in being a wrestling fan, can you still call yourself a "fan"? So many of the Internet wrestling community are more of critics, who will find something to critique or disagree with. So for many, it would probably be more accurate to simply call them "critics"...

 

I have often seen the question asked by fans/critics as to why a given promotion or booker doesn't pay more attention to the online wrestling fans and their opinions. But I have come to understand why. So many of these fans are like a bitter mother-in-law - no matter what you do or how well you do it, she is always going to find some flaw to point out, no matter how small or petty or meaningless. That's a painful thought...

 

The Total Mark

Monday, Week 1 June 2010

[James Casey]

Was Jeff Hardy starting to get over when he first went solo, in 2002 and 2003? Before he left? I honetly don't know... but if he hadn't been awa for two years, then conceivably, then he may have positioned for a push earlier...?

 

I believe Hardy was in a place where the push depended on him. He was as hot as he'd ever beeen, was given a partner/girlfriend in a very over Trish Stratus, had gone toe to toe with the Undertaker... But he was burnt out, and ready to leave. If he'd stayed, and proven reliable, then maybe the push would have hit at that time.

[Bigpapa42]

I believe Hardy was in a place where the push depended on him. He was as hot as he'd ever beeen, was given a partner/girlfriend in a very over Trish Stratus, had gone toe to toe with the Undertaker... But he was burnt out, and ready to leave. If he'd stayed, and proven reliable, then maybe the push would have hit at that time.

 

Interesting. As i said, i didn't watch too much during this period for various reasons. I didn't realize that Hardy and Trish were put together, to be honest. I've seen a bit of Hardy's stuff from ROH and TNA after he left and it wasn't anything special.

[Dragonmack]

Interesting. As i said, i didn't watch too much during this period for various reasons. I didn't realize that Hardy and Trish were put together, to be honest. I've seen a bit of Hardy's stuff from ROH and TNA after he left and it wasn't anything special.

 

Just read over Stratus' wiki page. It shows she was in a program with Jeff in early 2003 as his on screen girlfriend, but that it didnt get anywhere because that was when Hardy got released by the WWE the first time. Which probably explains why he never got the big push then.

[Bigpapa42]

Diary Update

 

Dear diary... Today, I woke up about ten minute earlier than normal but I got out of bed anyway. I made some toast and had a cup of coffee. I put a bit too much sugar in it, but I still drank it...

 

Oh, sorry, wrong diary...

 

So as I've said already, I'm going to be putting this bad boy on hiatus for a bit. I'm not going to try to stick an expected time-frame on it, because I just really don't know. I could be back in a week, a month, a few months, or perhaps not at all.

 

I won't get into all the little things that are bothering me here with the project. It is all fairly minor stuff and would probably just sound like (or be) whining. Its really just the combining of a bunch of little things that has me "not feeling it" right now. And as I've said, the reality is that it probably does come down to having my expectations unreasonably high coming in.

 

Truth be told, the hiatus won't be months. I will make a decision one way or the other before that. If I do decide to end this, I will map out my plans and directions in a fair amount of detail, much as I did at the end of Generation Supreme.

 

I don't particularly want to end this project here. It woud feel like so much of the story is untold and that I'm letitng you readers down. But I'll make a decision based on how I feel about things (emotion over logic... how very estrogen-centric). As I've been thinking about things over the past few weeks, the thought of ending this bothers me somewhat less than I expected. So we'll what happens...

 

Edit - I forgot to mention this... I want to thank those readers and posters who have dropped since advice since I started complaining about not being too sure about going forward. I have taken the advice, and at least tried to use it. After D-mack suggested thinking outside my current plans, I came up with an idea for the immediate post-Total Mayhem period that I quite like... But the new direction doesn't seem to be changing how I'm feeling about the project as a whole. But I do want to thank everyone.

[TakerNGN74]

I am definately sorry to hear about that but if you are not feeling it then continuing it would almost be like your half assing it. I hope that this doesn't last long and you are back to doing this sooner rather than later if at all. I enjoyed reading Generation Supreme (After it ended and was able to read it from the beginning without it growing in size) and I enjoyed this while it lasted and hope that it does come back. HOwever if this is it I can definately see why because some dynasty writers can get bored with what they are doing (myself included). Anyways thanks for the entaining read!

[Guest KingOfKings]

BP42, who in the hell do you think you are? How dare you consume my entire thursday night by getting me to read over 40 pages of sheer brilliance.

 

I have NEVER read a diary that I have been so engrossed in, and I mean NEVER! You sir, have not only captured the Cornellverse, but wrestling as a whole and you've made it seem real through words.

 

My god man, I could actually picture the shows happening in my head, like they happened in reality, like I was there.

 

I'll say it again, this is the GREATEST wrestling diary I have EVER read. You sir deserve a standing ovation and I must say please, please bring this back.

 

My god man, you just, wow...

[The Pink Stranger]

Is it still possible to read Generation Supreme? I looked through the forum, but maybe I missed it.

[James Casey]

2008 forum, here: http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35327

[Bigpapa42]

I am definately sorry to hear about that but if you are not feeling it then continuing it would almost be like your half assing it. I hope that this doesn't last long and you are back to doing this sooner rather than later if at all. I enjoyed reading Generation Supreme (After it ended and was able to read it from the beginning without it growing in size) and I enjoyed this while it lasted and hope that it does come back. HOwever if this is it I can definately see why because some dynasty writers can get bored with what they are doing (myself included). Anyways thanks for the entaining read!

 

Thanks Taker. If I do go forward, it won't be half-way. I may, however, make some adjustments to my approach - shorter write-ups, more summary style promos, etc. The time it takes to put together a show isn't really a big issue at this point, but streamlining may still may make things easier...

 

I must say that I would not like to see this go either. I have not been vocal in this dairy but I still read it (Lets face it you really don't need my feedback when you have 1000 other readers.), if you decide to bring it back that would be gravy but if not I totally understand.

 

Thanks BHK.

 

BP42, who in the hell do you think you are? How dare you consume my entire thursday night by getting me to read over 40 pages of sheer brilliance.

 

I have NEVER read a diary that I have been so engrossed in, and I mean NEVER! You sir, have not only captured the Cornellverse, but wrestling as a whole and you've made it seem real through words.

 

My god man, I could actually picture the shows happening in my head, like they happened in reality, like I was there.

 

I'll say it again, this is the GREATEST wrestling diary I have EVER read. You sir deserve a standing ovation and I must say please, please bring this back.

 

My god man, you just, wow...

 

My sincere apologies for your Thursday night. But I am glad you enjoyed.

 

I tend to be a fairly visual writer - I try to picture the given match or promo, and then try to relate that. So its awesome to hear when that comes across as intended.

 

Is it still possible to read Generation Supreme? I looked through the forum, but maybe I missed it.

 

If you intend on going back and giving it a read, best of luck. Its quite lengthy. Worth it? Maybe, but I'm a touch biased. The thing changes quite a bit throughout as I was still developing a "style". First project and all...

[Bigpapa42]

Hey loyal readers (and the casual ones, too)... Just a quick update. No decision yet. But I have to be honest - I haven't got my motivation back yet. Been enjoying the World Cup, finished Red Dead Redemption, just got WWE on Demand.... Also been playing around with another project, but its different enough that its not going to affect my decision on TCW either way.

 

The real reason I'm posting this today is because I went into the TCW game, to see if it tickled the interest at all. Figured maybe I'd book the next show, see how that felt... But I'm still just kind of ambivilent... I still like the ideas I have going forward, but I've lost the interest I had in seeing them play out, both in terms of in the game and in the diary. I'm less bothered by the thought of ending this than I thought I'd be. I'll give it a bit more time before deciding anything, however.

[Bigpapa42]

Status of Diary Update

 

Sorry guys... this one is done...

 

I was going to give the break a full month. But after going back and trying to book the next TCW show in the game recently, I realized that the interest I had in it was almost entirely gone. Just no longer there. Another week or two is not going to change that.

 

I won't go into the myriad of reasons my interest in this project has waned. Its really just a lot of small things, and it probably comes down to the overall issue that my expectations were too high coming. It also wasn't an instant thing... the last month of shows grew progressively more laborious to write.

 

Ending this feels something like a failure, as I never expected this thing to not even hit twenty full shows or 700 posts...

 

Over the next few days - or maybe even weeks - I'll be doing a series of "where things were going" posts. To explain booking plans and such.

 

As for future plans, I currently have a real world project running on another forum that I may end up re-posting here. Its not a traditional diary and because the writing load is so much less on it, that project really had nothing to do with the decision to end TCW here. Beyond that, I have no set plans. I'm thinking I will end up coming back with a full ConverllVerse diary at some point in the future, though likely not soon. As to where in the CV I would try my hand... No clue. Could be CGC, SWF again, or even another try with TCW. Just don't know. I need to find the story that intrigues me and I truly am not looking to jump back into a full new project.

 

I do want to sincerely thank everyone who has taken the time to post, predict, or even just read my little vision of TCW here. Your support is most graciously appreciated.

[ampulator]

I'm so glad I managed to nominate your diary before you ended it. In any case... it felt like you were booking a TCW 2008 product, rather than a TCW 2010 product. It's not your fault, really. I mean, TCW 2008's product was much more... flexible, while in TCW 2010, it was much more constrained. I felt the product constrained your grades.

[James Casey]

Too bad, bp, but I certainly understand where you're coming from.

 

I think amp may be right, and that you had great ideas for an '08 game that didn't quite translate to '10 the way you wanted them to.

 

It's still been a great ride, and you know you'll continue to have a ton of loyal readers wherever you end up next (FCW? We need a new FCW diary. I miss FCW...)

[Big Roguey]

I would love a BigPapa rendition of either CGC or PSW.

[Bigpapa42]

I'm so glad I managed to nominate your diary before you ended it. In any case... it felt like you were booking a TCW 2008 product, rather than a TCW 2010 product. It's not your fault, really. I mean, TCW 2008's product was much more... flexible, while in TCW 2010, it was much more constrained. I felt the product constrained your grades.

 

I definitely appreciate the nomination. But to be honest, winning accolades - whether monthly or annual - was never too much of a concern with this one for me. Generation Supreme got more than its share.

 

I definitely carried over my approach and ideas from 2008, but I don't know that it had much affect on my decision to end it. I was never too concerned with the grades on this project. At least not to the extent that it became a factor in whether or not to continue.

 

Too bad, bp, but I certainly understand where you're coming from.

 

I think amp may be right, and that you had great ideas for an '08 game that didn't quite translate to '10 the way you wanted them to.

 

It's still been a great ride, and you know you'll continue to have a ton of loyal readers wherever you end up next (FCW? We need a new FCW diary. I miss FCW...)

 

I put it to down more to my writing and such than the in-game results. Few of the characters really "connected" the way I had hoped. I created some characters here I liked and enjoyed, but I think I always ended up comparing it back to Gen-S... and it felt like it didn't live up to that. That's part of where the expectations came from. Having put so much planning into this one, I had the belief that it should exceed my first project. When really, I should have looked at it as a stand-alone rather than comparing. Not just the characters, but things like the big moments that I so enjoyed writing were lacking, and so on. But once you start to compare and feel somewhat disappointed in how things have worked in this one, its hard to shake that feeling and go forward.

 

I would love a BigPapa rendition of either CGC or PSW.

 

CGC is a really possibility, as I've always liked them. They feel very much like Stampede Wrestling to me, which I grew up watching. But it will come down to finding a story I want to tell. That's what drives me forward, is that particular story.