Official NBA Discussion Thread

[GatorBait19]

David Stern chimes in about Lebron leaving the Cavs

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5374799

 

 

if you watch the video near the end Wade talks about how people are saying Jordan and Magic did it by themselves. I just don't remember anyone saying that about Magic or Jordan. I also don't think anyone is ganging up on Wade or Bosh either so in the sense he is sticking up for Lebron there. Most people are ganging up on Lebron saying Magic and Jordan stayed and won it not bolted because they couldn't beat better teams.

[PeterHilton]

I honestly don't think that it's because he 'left' so much as he left to go play second banana on Wade's teams.

 

Cleveland fans would've been angry either way, but if Lebron signed with Chicago or NY, I doubt he would've received as much backlash on a basketball level. Because at least on those teams, he's still "the guy."

 

If those teams, he still would've had the Jordan, Bird, Magic role...now he comes across as Pippen, McHale, Worthy..still great HOF players, but a step below.

[randomfreeze]

I don't see how James isn't the guy in Miami. I know the media has gone the other way with this since it's been Wade's team, but if there is anything Miami fans have been bashed for since getting James is their lack of loyalty and dedication to actually following the team. James had more points, rebounds, assists, better shooting percentage, better free throw percentage...physically he's bigger, stronger, younger...I don't know. It seems like we are all just conceding that James and Wade are about the same player and since Wade has lived in Florida longer, James is now Scottie Pippen.

[PeterHilton]

I don't see how James isn't the guy in Miami. I know the media has gone the other way with this since it's been Wade's team, but if there is anything Miami fans have been bashed for since getting James is their lack of loyalty and dedication to actually following the team. James had more points, rebounds, assists, better shooting percentage, better free throw percentage...physically he's bigger, stronger, younger...I don't know. It seems like we are all just conceding that James and Wade are about the same player and since Wade has lived in Florida longer, James is now Scottie Pippen.

 

The fact that Wade has been in Miami since he was drafted and he's ALREADY won a title there means that Miami is "his team."

 

At this time it's a matter of public perception. As they play games and we see who's the focal point of the team and who takes the shots in crunch time, things could change. But right now..

 

Lebron James signed on to Dwyane Wade's team.

[Beeker]

I don't see how James isn't the guy in Miami. I know the media has gone the other way with this since it's been Wade's team, but if there is anything Miami fans have been bashed for since getting James is their lack of loyalty and dedication to actually following the team. James had more points, rebounds, assists, better shooting percentage, better free throw percentage...physically he's bigger, stronger, younger...I don't know. It seems like we are all just conceding that James and Wade are about the same player and since Wade has lived in Florida longer, James is now Scottie Pippen.

 

There's also the small fact that Wade's... uh... oh right... lead his team to a title! Wade's proven that he has the leadership skills to raise his game and his team mates to the elite level. James never did that. Not ever. So While Bosh becomes the Horace Grant/Robert Parish/Byron Scott of the team, James becomes the supporting figure.

 

It has less to do with Wade being in Florida longer... or "South Beach"... but more to do with Wade having the ability to be a commander.

 

I'm curious to see how the three headed ego-trip handles controversy. Personally, I hope it implodes and they hate each other. But then millionaires in turmoil makes me smirk.

[randomfreeze]

I don't wanna sound overly negative about Wade to make this point, but he's also the guy that hasn't been able to get his team out of the first round the past four years. It's been Wade's team, but it's not the same Heat squad. This team is either about LeBron or it's about the threesome, I don't think it's singularly about Wade anymore.

 

That's just how I perceive it though, like PH said, I'm no Nostradamus...I don't know how they will play together...I just think anointing James a sidekick to Wade isn't going to hold true for long once the games start.

[GatorBait19]

I don't wanna sound overly negative about Wade to make this point, but he's also the guy that hasn't been able to get his team out of the first round the past four years. It's been Wade's team, but it's not the same Heat squad. This team is either about LeBron or it's about the threesome, I don't think it's singularly about Wade anymore.

 

That's just how I perceive it though, like PH said, I'm no Nostradamus...I don't know how they will play together...I just think anointing James a sidekick to Wade isn't going to hold true for long once the games start.

 

Ah you are right about this, but Lebron James is the same man who has failed to take a team that's been picked to win the finals the last three years, to the finals.

 

Wade has done all of his work with out, what Lebron had with the Cavs, Talent. Wade biggest name he played next to was Shaq who was there as a filler and helped him. James has had year after year of talented players with him who have made all-star game apperances.

 

Wade made the Heat the last couple of years overachieve. Look at the Heat with out Wade and when he is hurt. They sucked and got the 2nd overall pick. With him they are talented enough to make the playoffs. Cavs with out Lebron are still good enough to float around .500 and make the playoffs.

 

Lebron will play second fiddle to Wade. Wade is the captian and Wade is the man in Miami. Not because he has lived there longer, because he actually lives in Chicago in the offseason. It's because like people mentioned, he brought a title to Miami, played there is whole career, and will stay there his whole career.

 

 

 

Peter I agree with Lebron taking the sidekick role. I still believe that leaving a city and not winning a championship really hurts your legacy though. Think about guys like Wilt, Oscar, and Shaq, all great players but are never mentioned in the talks of Jordan, Bird, and Magic because they ditched their teams for the chance at a title. I don't think that's bad like I stated before, but it also makes people stray from you when talking about greatest all-time

[PeterHilton]

Peter I agree with Lebron taking the sidekick role. I still believe that leaving a city and not winning a championship really hurts your legacy though. Think about guys like Wilt, Oscar, and Shaq, all great players but are never mentioned in the talks of Jordan, Bird, and Magic because they ditched their teams for the chance at a title. I don't think that's bad like I stated before, but it also makes people stray from you when talking about greatest all-time

 

Agree to disagree. I honestly think Lebron going to NY and winning a title would've actually HELPED his legacy, but it's a minor point

 

Two notes

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=5375672

 

Raja Bell close to signing with the Lakers. Makes me wonder how long Sasha stays with the team..

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5376884

 

TWolves trading Al Jefferson to the Jazz. Great pick up for Utah if Jefferson is back to 100%.

[GatorBait19]

Peter we argued a couple of weeks ago about if the Salary Cap and it not being a hard cap is hurting the NBA owners. After hearing that Josh Childress got a 5 year 34.1 million dollar contract, I agree GM/Owners are dumb.

 

I was reading a ESPN Blog talk about how so many teams are under the cap with not so much talent outside of the top 7 so people are going to get overpaid to fill positions. I can get that, but 7 mill a year to a career backup is crazy.

[PeterHilton]

Peter we argued a couple of weeks ago about if the Salary Cap and it not being a hard cap is hurting the NBA owners. After hearing that Josh Childress got a 5 year 34.1 million dollar contract, I agree GM/Owners are dumb.

 

I was reading a ESPN Blog talk about how so many teams are under the cap with not so much talent outside of the top 7 so people are going to get overpaid to fill positions. I can get that, but 7 mill a year to a career backup is crazy.

 

what kills me is that the mentality is "oh I have all this space..I have to spend it all immediately even if the guy i'm going to spend it on doesn't deserve it"

[MasterJ]

I haven't seen Chris Bosh play much as I'm not that in to NBA ball but is he worth the money Miami is paying him?

[GatorBait19]

what kills me is that the mentality is "oh I have all this space..I have to spend it all immediately even if the guy i'm going to spend it on doesn't deserve it"

 

seriously, after hearing about this deal

 

1) Steve Nash has to be kicking himself.

 

2) Stern can't sit here and say anymore that we are losing 370mil a year because of salaries. No you are losing that money because you guys don't brand well, charge way to much for tickets, and you spend like retards.

 

I know I was critical of the players before and I still stand firm that a hard cap would help, but as long as the owners don't stand their ground and say this is the contract and I don't care then it will continue to happen.

 

It's dumb that a back up player like Josh Childress makes more money then both starters combined for the All-Star game (david price and Jimenez)

[GatorBait19]

I haven't seen Chris Bosh play much as I'm not that in to NBA ball but is he worth the money Miami is paying him?

 

Yeah, he has been a 22/10 guy for the last 4 years I believe. He is what kept the Raptors relevant in the Eastern Conf. races.

[PeterHilton]

I haven't seen Chris Bosh play much as I'm not that in to NBA ball but is he worth the money Miami is paying him?

 

Based on market value, yeah he's worth it.

[Johnny Fenoli]

Mavs just picked up Tyson Chandler.

[lazorbeak]

Honestly I don't understand the need for Bosh. He's worth his contract for his offensive production to this point, but his scoring is going to drop significantly next year when he ends up as a #3 option. He's a good but not exceptional rebounder, too skinny to d-up in the post, and actually recorded less blocks (at 6'10) than D-Wade did last season!!! I mean as unfair as it would be, Dwight Howard would make sense as a #3 option in the post, because he gives you power and defensive presence in the middle that Wade and LeBron don't give you. If I were Pat Riley I would much rather have my own Shane Battier, maybe get Tayshaun Prince off the sinking ship that is the Pistons, or bring in a younger guy like Ronnie Brewer to play perimeter D, then get someone who can play the low post to complement Haslem, who is a very good role player. Birdman Andersen would be my top pick but any defensive-minded center would work. And even at a reduced price you could get a Ronnie Brewer and a Center for a lot less than Chris Bosh.

[PeterHilton]

I haven't seen Chris Bosh play much as I'm not that in to NBA ball but is he worth the money Miami is paying him?

 

All kinds of stuff coming out today..

 

--The Heat have agreed to terms with Udonis Haslem, Mike MIller, and Zydrunas Ilgauskas

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5377012

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5374210

 

--Orlando signed Q Richardson...which means Matt Barnes and possibly JJ Redick are out

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5374477

 

--The Chandler deal:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba/news/story?id=5377055

 

So Diaw and Calderon stay in place. And the Chandler/Heywood combo should be solid.

[PeterHilton]

Honestly I don't understand the need for Bosh. He's worth his contract for his offensive production to this point, but his scoring is going to drop significantly next year when he ends up as a #3 option. He's a good but not exceptional rebounder, too skinny to d-up in the post, and actually recorded less blocks (at 6'10) than D-Wade did last season!!! I mean as unfair as it would be, Dwight Howard would make sense as a #3 option in the post, because he gives you power and defensive presence in the middle that Wade and LeBron don't give you. If I were Pat Riley I would much rather have my own Shane Battier, maybe get Tayshaun Prince off the sinking ship that is the Pistons, or bring in a younger guy like Ronnie Brewer to play perimeter D, then get someone who can play the low post to complement Haslem, who is a very good role player. Birdman Andersen would be my top pick but any defensive-minded center would work. And even at a reduced price you could get a Ronnie Brewer and a Center for a lot less than Chris Bosh.

 

All true. I wonder if Lebron wou;d've gone to Miami if Bosh hadn't though. That might be one of those "hey I wanna go play with my friends" deals.

[GatorBait19]

Mavs just picked up Tyson Chandler.

 

yeah I saw that, it will be interesting to see how they do with a big man like Chandler. He isn't world class talent, but in a NBA where Big men aren't what they use to be. Chandler would be considered a top 10 center now a days which is something Dirk has never had.

[GatorBait19]

All kinds of stuff coming out today..

 

--The Heat have agreed to terms with Udonis Haslem, Mike MIller, and Zydrunas Ilgauskas

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5377012

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5374210

 

--Orlando signed Q Richardson...which means Matt Barnes and possibly JJ Redick are out

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5374477

 

--The Chandler deal:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba/news/story?id=5377055

 

So Diaw and Calderon stay in place. And the Chandler/Heywood combo should be solid.

 

people are talking about the lineup looking like this

 

PG: James

SG: Wade

SF: Miller

PF: Haslem

C: Bosh

 

I would feel bad for any PG who had to cover Lebron lol or get covered by Lebron.

[GatorBait19]

Honestly I don't understand the need for Bosh. He's worth his contract for his offensive production to this point, but his scoring is going to drop significantly next year when he ends up as a #3 option. He's a good but not exceptional rebounder, too skinny to d-up in the post, and actually recorded less blocks (at 6'10) than D-Wade did last season!!! I mean as unfair as it would be, Dwight Howard would make sense as a #3 option in the post, because he gives you power and defensive presence in the middle that Wade and LeBron don't give you. If I were Pat Riley I would much rather have my own Shane Battier, maybe get Tayshaun Prince off the sinking ship that is the Pistons, or bring in a younger guy like Ronnie Brewer to play perimeter D, then get someone who can play the low post to complement Haslem, who is a very good role player. Birdman Andersen would be my top pick but any defensive-minded center would work. And even at a reduced price you could get a Ronnie Brewer and a Center for a lot less than Chris Bosh.

 

I think the need was just to have another person who can score in case Lebron and Wade can't . It makes sense to me because of the injury history Wade has. Bosh could easily go from 3 to 2 option with a matter of a injury to one of the other two.

[PeterHilton]

people are talking about the lineup looking like this

 

PG: James

SG: Wade

SF: Miller

PF: Haslem

C: Bosh

 

I would feel bad for any PG who had to cover Lebron lol or get covered by Lebron.

 

Fun in the regular season. They'd be eaten alive up front in the playoffs.

[jbergey_2005]

people are talking about the lineup looking like this

 

PG: James

SG: Wade

SF: Miller

PF: Haslem

C: Bosh

 

I would feel bad for any PG who had to cover Lebron lol or get covered by Lebron.

 

Why would Lebron play point? Wouldn't Wade or Chalmers play point on this team?

[GatorBait19]

Why would Lebron play point? Wouldn't Wade or Chalmers play point on this team?

 

That's what I wondered myself.

[MGreene78]

Agree to disagree. I honestly think Lebron going to NY and winning a title would've actually HELPED his legacy, but it's a minor point

Two notes

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=5375672

 

Raja Bell close to signing with the Lakers. Makes me wonder how long Sasha stays with the team..

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5376884

 

TWolves trading Al Jefferson to the Jazz. Great pick up for Utah if Jefferson is back to 100%.

 

Peter, would you be willing to elaborate why winning a title with the Knicks would have helped LBJ legacy please?