Official NBA Discussion Thread

[MasterJ]

I don't think anyone is saying LeBron James is one of the top ten greatest players of all time, are they? He's one of the best players in the league right now, and it's fun to compare people to Jordan because he's the best, but we've compared worse players to Jordan (Arenas and Iverson are two outrageous examples off the top of my head.)

 

I'm excited he's coming to Miami because American Airlines Arena is a short ride away from me. I've never had a horse to pull for in the NBA, and my friends know I famously change my favorite team every year based on where my favorite college players get drafted. I'm from West Virginia University and Da'Sean Butler was drafted by the Heat so my bandwagon jumping is with Miami this year.

 

The best part about this for people living in South Florida is it just gives us something else to do. We are a lesser LA, few people actually grow up in South Florida and stay, we are all transplants, like LeBron. We aren't life long Heat fans. And LeBron coming down makes the Heat just another social event we have the option of attending. The media and the ten thousand or so fans that actually went to the games might try to present some other argument to you but really, the majority are just glad we have an air conditioned meeting place to congregate on a Wednesday night.

 

I didnt mean of alltime I meant right now in the NBA sorry for not making that clear

[Candyman]

You are so off base here, it's not even funny. Lemme ask you a serious question. A major media outlet offers you money (that you choose to donate to charity) to make your decision on their airspace in a televised special. Do you turn it down? HELL NO you don't. Seriously, if you know any professional athletes at all, you would know that it's often the MEDIA that promotes these things. If someone's offering you a million funneled to your crew to give them "exclusives", you wouldn't turn it down. And if you say you would, I'd question your honesty and your integrity. If a major media outlet or other major sponsor offers you cash money to follow you around for eight months and film your activities, you wouldn't turn it down. So why people hate on folks like TO or Ocho when they take the money and do that, I will never understand.

 

THIS is what's off base. This is all irrelevant, because the entire premise is wrong. It was LEBRON'S idea. HIS people pitched it to ESPN, not the other way around. Why didn't Wade and Bosh have a primetime special? Why didn't Kobe? Why didn't A-Rod? Comparing the average GreyDogSoftware poster to these player is ridiculous. No offense to the lovely posters here, but few (if any) have made hundreds of millions of dollars. Would I do it for a million dollars? Sure. Would I do it for 3% of what I make in a year? Not a chance in hell.

 

I can guarandamntee that ESPN got their best ratings in that timeslot than they ever have before. So it was well worth it for them to go through with it.

 

Exactly, why is why they would do it EVERY NIGHT OF THE WEEK if they could. They'd create ESPN 4: Decisions if they could. Every day, somebody else decides where they're going. Whether it be a free agent, a high profile recruit, or a team making a trade. Tune in tonight to see where the Mariners are sending Cliff Lee! Why aren't they doing it? BECAUSE THE PLAYERS SAY NO! I guarandamntee this isn't the first time they tried to do this.

 

Oh and HE choked? Hello? Basketball's a team sport. When did Jordan win his first title? Wasn't it after the Bulls surrounded him with players who complemented him?

 

...did you watch the game? Have you ever watched a basketball game? The only time he didn't choke is when he quit. Anybody who has watched the games knows the difference between how Jordan played when he lost and how LeBron played when he lost.

 

Why? Why feel bad for "Dan"? Did he not have SEVEN YEARS to build a team around arguably the best all around player in the game right now? You're giving Antawn Jamison way too much credit. He was decent two years ago. Now? I wouldn't take that leap of faith.

 

The Cavs franchise can go scratch. For four years, the Knicks have been in fire sale mode. David Lee's name has been bandied about in trade talks for two years. Where were the Cavs? You mean to tell me John Salmons wouldn't have been helpful to Cleveland? How about Sheed? Ben Wallace, even at his age, would've been a good fit defensively in the pivot (and the Cavs didn't need scoring from the 5). Brandon Roy's name has been in trade talks as well. What, is he not better than whoever's playing the 2 this year?

 

I'm sorry, I have zero sympathy for teams that don't give full, honest efforts to assemble championship caliber teams and then whine when their cornerstone players leave. Read Dan Gilbert's letter. Where was the guarantee three years ago? All of a sudden, he's full of piss & vinegar because his cash cow went to a better pasture? Tough.

 

You're forgetting the fact that LeBron had a say in EVERY decision the Cavaliers made over the last seven years. And no, that's not an exaggeration. He was the de facto owner, president, GM, and coach. Gilbert was there to write the checks, Ferry was there to make the phone calls for LeBron, and Mike Brown was there to tell the other players what LeBron wanted them to do. Why didn't the Cavaliers get those players you mentioned? Because LeBron didn't want them. He wanted Shaq, he got Shaq. He wanted Jamison, he got Jamison. If he wanted Sheed or Brandon Roy, he would've got them. If he had told them to tear apart the team and clear enough space under the cap to sign Bosh and Wade - like Wade told Pat Riley - it would've happened. He wanted to do it on his own, and bolted when he realized he couldn't do it.

 

Dan Gilbert needs to lay off the barbiturates and hallucinogenics, at least before writing a letter to his customers.

 

If you're talking about his guarantee, you're the one on barbiturates and hallucinogenics if you think there was anything wrong with that. I thought you were a businessman. What's he supposed to say? "Oh crap, it'll be another 50 years before Cleveland has a shot at a title! You better move to Miami if you want to see the next five NBA champions!"? Hello? He's trying to rally Cavaliers fans, aka his CUSTOMERS. Who cares if what he says has any chance of happening? It's called damage control. The idea isn't to predict the future, it's to keep his fans interested in the team and keep their support. And guess what? It worked. He (and by extension, his team) is more popular with Cavaliers fans than they were right after LeBron said "Miami Heat" a couple hours before that.

[CQI13]

How about thanking LeBron for his service and wishing him well in his future endeavors? How about talking about LeBron the way Mickey Arison talked about Shaq on his way out (when he burned bridges and threw people under the bus left and right)? And if he's such a "quitter", why did he want to sign him to a max deal? Why not go after someone who is not a quitter? That's where I think he's off base.

[lazorbeak]

...did you watch the game? Have you ever watched a basketball game? The only time he didn't choke is when he quit. Anybody who has watched the games knows the difference between how Jordan played when he lost and how LeBron played when he lost.

 

Hey, hi, I watched the game, I played the game for over a decade until I was damn near physically unable to, and your statements about "choking" and "quitting" indicate that you're the one who doesn't know what he's talking about. Against the Celtics, LeBron was playing with a sprained elbow and bone contusion, and he didn't make excuses for it and still played hard, making hustle plays and playing in pain. Does he have Michael Jordan's composure? No, but neither does 99.999% of the planet.

 

And again, he was coached by a defense-first guy who wasn't able to build an effective half court offense, ever. The Cavs had the best transition offenses in the league for the past several years but you can't live on that in the playoffs, especially against a physical team like the Celtics.

 

 

To me, Dan's lack of class is really indicative of some of the team's bigger problems and if LeBron's leaving is a "betrayal" and he is a "diva," it's only because the Cavs created him. When you spoil a player for years you don't get to act surprised if one day you turn around he's spoiled. The Cavs bent over backwards to give LeBron what he wanted, not what he needed. He wanted to play with Shaq? Somebody should have told him a 38 year old who couldn't run the floor or play team defense isn't what the Cavs needed, but instead they spent the money on a guy that consistently played worse than Varejao. In the halfcourt game they were undersized and LeBron was unwilling or unable to match up on 4's, but do they pick up a guy who can defensively fill that gap? No, they pick up Jamison, a jump shooter smaller than LBJ who basically plays LeBron's position, only he's worse at guarding 4's. Oops.

 

Yes, players have a tendency to be spoiled. It is a by-product of hearing how great they are from age 12 from an entourage that forms around them by the time they're in high school. They hear how great they are on TV and read about it in the papers. And it makes a certain amount of sense, since they are able to do things that most people physically cannot do and there is a lot of earning potential in pursuing. But if the franchise encourages that behavior it's just going to get worse. Here the Cavs bent over backwards to do whatever LeBron wanted when he wanted it and this is the result. Turns out he wants Pat Riley at the controls, he doesn't want to do it himself.

 

One of the great things about Phil Jackson is he's willing to push his players to be better and he has the clout that most players are willing to listen to him even if it means not getting what they want when they want it. Before Phil got to LA, Shaq got whatever he wanted, even if it was to the team's detriment: he wants a shooter so they sign Glen Rice, despite the fact that he never fit in with Kobe and Fisher and played no defense. After Phil got there both Kobe and Shaq occasionally pouted and it ended up driving Shaq out in the long-term, but the franchise had somebody at the controls who knew what they were doing and it resulted in championships (and unloading Glen Rice to an unsuspecting Knicks team).

[lazorbeak]

How about thanking LeBron for his service and wishing him well in his future endeavors? How about talking about LeBron the way Mickey Arison talked about Shaq on his way out (when he burned bridges and threw people under the bus left and right)? And if he's such a "quitter", why did he want to sign him to a max deal? Why not go after someone who is not a quitter? That's where I think he's off base.

 

Agreed 100%. Dan's comments were tacky and make him look like a mark. Sure a lot of mark fans will go "YEAH HE'S RIGHT!" but he's doing himself no favors and in the end he just ends up looking like a bitter chump.

 

Even if he felt betrayed, even if he is a fan first and not a profiteer investing in LeBron James who made his money driving this country into a recession, swallow your pride and tell your fans to show respect and not dwell on it by talking about how next season's Cavs are going to be the "best ever!" Also don't use quotation marks incorrectly or post something using comic sans.

[MattitudeV2]

How about thanking LeBron for his service and wishing him well in his future endeavors? How about talking about LeBron the way Mickey Arison talked about Shaq on his way out (when he burned bridges and threw people under the bus left and right)? And if he's such a "quitter", why did he want to sign him to a max deal? Why not go after someone who is not a quitter? That's where I think he's off base.

 

Shaq wasn't a Florida born talent, Lebron was born in the area and that would be like Derek Jeter leaving The Yankees after he promoted himself as a Yankee fan as a kid. I will agree with what Gilbert said about James was a bit over the line but do you want Gilbert to act like Randy Lerner or Walsh!

[CQI13]

Possibly, but I guarantee you that if Wade had left, Mickey Arison wouldn't have acted the same way either. Wade may not have been born here, but he's by far the most popular athlete in South Florida, and it would have set the franchise back 10 years (like when Shaq left Orlando).

 

But a letter that said "LeBron, thanks for the memories. We are now looking to the future, blah blah blah" would have been infinitely better than "Cleveland will win a title before the Heat do/LeBron's a coward and a quitter."

[The Final Countdown]

How about thanking LeBron for his service and wishing him well in his future endeavors?

"Thanks for everything, LeBron, and best of luck with your new team." Do you really think that's what the majority of Cavs fans want to hear out of the team's owner right now? Whether you think it is justified or not, the vast majority of Cavs fans seem to feel like LeBron stabbed them in the back and deserted them. I'm with you, partially: I think that letter was over the top. But my guess is that his fanbase loved that letter, and isn't that all that really matters?

[CQI13]

But still, if he's such a horrible person, why did you want to sign him?

[Astil]

"Thanks for everything, LeBron, and best of luck with your new team." Do you really think that's what the majority of Cavs fans want to hear out of the team's owner right now? Whether you think it is justified or not, the vast majority of Cavs fans seem to feel like LeBron stabbed them in the back and deserted them. I'm with you, partially: I think that letter was over the top. But my guess is that his fanbase loved that letter, and isn't that all that really matters?

 

NBA suits shouldn't be heard from.

[BHK1978]

Candyman nailed pretty much what I would have said so I just going to say this little bit and I am out. Just for the simple fact that I hate to debate on the internet because I find it to be a waste of time. You have your opinions and I have mine. My are not any less valid than yours despite what you think.

 

Apparently it wasn't, since all of the Plain Dealer's columnists don't acknowledge it at all. They talk about Jim Brown's Browns teams as the only bright spot in Cleveland's sports history. Almost made the World Series is meaningless. It doesn't count for anything. Why, I have no idea. New York fans have forgotten more championships than Cleveland fans have ever had so why they don't enjoy the near misses more is beyond me.[/Quote]

 

Aside from when Jim Brown played for the Browns and the Browns of the mid-1980's, Cleveland always has been a baseball first town. So nobody in Cleveland ever acknowledges those Indians teams with Man-Ram, Jim Thome, Albert Belle and Eddie Murray on them. Did that never happen? I guess it must have not happened...

 

 

 

Do you even watch basketball? Have you played it at all? Would you like to go through Michael Jordan's game by game Finals stats and say he choked when he has an off shooting day? I'm guessing Kobe Bryant pulled off one the biggest choke performances in history this past Game 7. Are you even familiar with LeBron James' game? He doesn't always have to drop 40 to help the team win.

 

I would ask you that very same question but I am sure you would tell me how you played for St. John's and then you blew out your knee. However, you soon became part owner of the Nets and you were the reason why they got Jason Kidd on the team.

 

Look bottom line is teams that he led did not perform on the big stage. So of courese he is going to have the label of choke artist put upon him. Jim Kelly was a great QB, but he is labeled as a choke artist because the teams he led never reached the top of the mountain.

 

When the Yankees fail who is looked at?

 

A-Rod...

 

Why?

 

Because he is being paid an obscene amount of money to take his team to the next level. Until last year the media was all over him about how he could not bring his A game when it counted. Once he did now you do not hear it as much.

 

Until Lebron can prove otherwise, he is also going to be put in that category.

 

Yes, that's the answer. Keep shootin'. Odd how Kobe managed to help his team win their most recent title by NOT dropping 40 and calling it a night. Must be a coincidence.

 

If the Lakers neeeded him to do so he would, same thing with Jordan, Magic, and Bird. When their team needed them to do it they did it.

[CQI13]

Considering both teams combined for just over 100 points in 3 quarters, it's safe to say the team needed him to. Yet he didn't/couldn't.

[The Final Countdown]

NBA suits shouldn't be heard from.

Maybe so. But if the fans of the team he own liked what he had to say (and every indication is that they did), he probably made a good decision, even if most people outside of Cleveland think he came across as a fool.

[Imarevenant]

"Thanks for everything, LeBron, and best of luck with your new team." Do you really think that's what the majority of Cavs fans want to hear out of the team's owner right now? Whether you think it is justified or not, the vast majority of Cavs fans seem to feel like LeBron stabbed them in the back and deserted them. I'm with you, partially: I think that letter was over the top. But my guess is that his fanbase loved that letter, and isn't that all that really matters?

 

Do you think future free agents want to come to a team where the owner so publicly acts like a child? Let the fans and the media crucify James all they want, that goes with the territory, but the owner of the team or anyone in the front office doing it makes your team look low class. It's the type of bush league BS I watched Matt Millen do over and over with Detroit, and trust me it didn't help matters at all.

 

You are in Cleveland it's already an uphill battle attracting top flight free agents, (just ask Lebron and his failed attempts at pleading to get Bosh to go there instead of Miami). Why compound on this by reacting this way? I see no benefit in this whatsoever. He could have easily talked up Byron Scott and the future of the team sans Lebron without resorting to the grade school name calling.

[BHK1978]

Do you think future free agents want to come to a team where the owner so publicly acts like a child?

 

Well it seems to have worked for George Steinbrenner after all these years.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Agreed, I don't wanna imagine what goes through the next big free agent's mind if the Cavs offer him a deal. Seriously. Way of sealing your own fate, Gilb.

 

They made the Finals pretty easily. They killed the Wizards 4 to 0, stomped the Nets 4 to 2. They then fell down 0-2 to the Pistons only to rebound and stomp them the next four games. They lost to the Spurs because the Spurs were by far the much better team.The next year they added more talent with out losing much. Then the year after that they added Mo Williams while only losing Damon Jones and Joe Smith! Each year the Cavs have put better talent around James and each year they get great regular season results and not so great post season results.

 

I meant moreso in the semi-finals, that they struggled. Maybe barely wasn't the right word, yeah. Pistons were starting hot until they completely shut down, allowing them to reach the finals.

 

It took them a great player to do that, and while LeBron doesn't have a ring on his finger, carrying a less-than-suitable team to the finals on his shoulders deserves its rep.

 

Lebron is a good player but not all that he is hyped out to be, I mean the media keeps saying he's a future legend and blah blah blah. I'm still waiting for him to come through in the play off and before this guy even is in the szme breath a Jordan win three titles and if he done win one with Mami he dont have his little excuse of not having a team around him. Truth is James chokes in the playoffs and quites when he feels the game is over watch game 2 5 7 of the series agianst Bosten he QUITE plan and simple until he can prove himself to me he's not in my top ten.

 

1) There was no Game 7.

2) Game 6, he scored a triple-double on his way out. You call that quitting?

3) Game 2, he made 24 and granted they weren't strong numbers but he still did his job. Celtics were just on-point that night.

 

I don't get where this BS comes from. Just say he quit Game 5 and your point would hold some credence.

[The Final Countdown]

Agreed, I don't wanna imagine what goes through the next big free agent's mind if the Cavs offer him a deal. Seriously. Way of sealing your own fate, Gilb.

Hypothetically speaking: if said big free agent thought the Cavs would be the best fit for him talent-wise, and they were offering the money...do you think he'd turn them down because of the owner's comments on LeBron? Personally, I don't think so, unless maybe the guy had a close friendship with LeBron.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Well, everything's subjective in that situation so there's no real definite answer. It could not be that big a deal in the future either. But it's just to say he ain't helped matters. I'd also bet other owners are SMHing at this ish.

[CQI13]

I see it the same as when someone badmouths their previous employer in an interview. Would you want to hire that person, considering the things they may say about you down the line? Same thing applies here. Talk up YOUR franchise's future (new coach, young talent, whatever). Again, if he was such a coward and a quitter, Miami did Cleveland a favor by taking LeBron off their hands.

[PeterHilton]

Wonderful debate in here. too much to go into so I'll just recap my thoughts:

 

-Lebron made an odd choice. He basically took the easy way out.

 

Staying with Cleveland would've showed loyalty. NY would've been the 'marketing first' move. And (until/unless I'm blown away by who the Heat add) i still thin the Bulls would've been the best choice from a basketball standpoint.

 

But that would've required Lebron to be THE GUY and maybe he realizes that's not in his DNA. Last night he said that he was happy because he would be on a team where he wouldn't have 'the pressure of having to score 30' (I'm paraphrasing). Well...i get what he's saying..but that's just not something that guys like West, Bird, Jordan, Jobe..hell, even Wade...would say. they LOVE that pressure.

 

Lebron doesn't have to be THE GUY and he can still win rings in Miami. He'll be the greatest second banana since Pippen in his prime.

 

-I think the way he did is was ridiculous.

 

-Dn Gilbert is an idiot and his comments made him look classless and petulant. He should've just congratulated him and then turned around and told the fans he would do everything possible so that the Cavs would see Lebron and Co in the playoffs.

[PeterHilton]

Lebron is a good player but not all that he is hyped out to be, I mean the media keeps saying he's a future legend and blah blah blah. I'm still waiting for him to come through in the play off and before this guy even is in the szme breath a Jordan win three titles and if he done win one with Mami he dont have his little excuse of not having a team around him. Truth is James chokes in the playoffs and quites when he feels the game is over watch game 2 5 7 of the series agianst Bosten he QUITE plan and simple until he can prove himself to me he's not in my top ten.

 

Oh well if he's not in YOUR top 10...

 

Watch the series against teh Pistons again where he single handedly carried them to a win that put the Cavs in the Finals against a vastly superior team.

 

And although it's not brought up on the mainstream press, the cavs were going through some major locker room turmoil with the whole Delonte Weest thing and he was hurt.

 

Lebron isn't the Second Coming...but there's no way in hell there are 10 better players than him in the NBA right now.

[Imarevenant]

Oh well if he's not in YOUR top 10...

 

Watch the series against teh Pistons again where he single handedly carried them to a win that put the Cavs in the Finals against a vastly superior team.

 

And although it's not brought up on the mainstream press, the cavs were going through some major locker room turmoil with the whole Delonte Weest thing and he was hurt.

 

Lebron isn't the Second Coming...but there's no way in hell there are 10 better players than him in the NBA right now.

 

I'm still up in the air whether or not that the West situation is even real. The only two people I've heard back it up is Calvin Murphy (who nobody should have any reason to believe) and Colin Cowherd (who is a supreme blowhard) so I'm on the fence. There was definitely turmoil surrounding Mike Brown and his bad coaching decisions though.

[GatorBait19]

And you're saying five years isn't long enough to assemble a championship team? Might wanna tell Danny Ainge that.

 

 

 

Brandon Roy's name was broached several times that I recall. When the Knicks were working with the expiring contract of Allen Houston (which I think was Roy's rookie year), the value of the deal made it extremely attractive to teams looking to clear cap space in a hurry. His was one of several "big names" thrown around and reported on by both the NY Daily News and the Post. If the KNICKS of all people, are talking about a player, why isn't an actual real team doing so?

 

 

 

This part I forgot. However, weren't the 'Big Three' in Boston assembled within the last five years? Where were the Cavs?

 

 

 

You're a lame duck franchise. No one wants to sign with one of those. Had Gilbert put the proverbial pedal to the metal EARLIER (with all the piss & vinegar he's projecting with that letter), it might not be quite so hard to get people to come in.

 

 

 

So, lemme get this right. You're giving a player credit for being "good"....on the Wizards? The Gilbert Arenas-less Wizards at that? Okay.

 

 

 

GatorBait, look at the talent the Celtics put around Paul Pierce. Look at the talent the Lakers put around Kobe (after he threatened to bolt). Look at the talent the Spurs put around Tim Duncan. Look at the talent the Magic put around Dwight Howard. Within the last five years, you've had several bonafide stars change teams. NONE of them wound up in Cleveland. The other team will trade to you if you offer them the best deal. Please show me links to stories of Danny Ferry talking to the Sonics about Rashard Lewis or the Wolves about KG or the Grizz about Pau. Or hey, how about the Ty Lawson draft day trade. I'm sure the Cavs were all over that one.

 

Remi you seem to keep putting the fact that he continued to put better talent around Lebron out of your mind. In five years Dan took the Cavs from a team that didn't make the playoffs with Boozer and James, to a team that made the playoffs without Boozer. They put talent all around him that was picked to win the title by most experts.

 

I can't comment of the Roy issues because of the fact I have never heard of thoses stories. If you could give me some short of material to read to refresh my memory that would help.

 

Also, once agian when assembling a team like the Big Three in Boston or Gasol going to the Lakers you need to remember a couple of things.

 

1) Gasol trade was fishy to everyone in the business. Jerry West was the GM and he gave them a great deal. The Griz were strapped for cash and the Lakers offered Kwame Brown, Jarvis Crenttion, and two first rounders. Both pickest were the 28th overall.

 

2) KG's deal netted the Wolves Al Jefferson and Ryan Gomes plus other players. They also got two number one picks including a top five pick, who did they draft? O.J Mayo then traded him for Kevin Love. So for KG they got two talented prospects. As Peter and I have mentioned before as well, T'Wolves aren't the samrtest team out their when it come to trades.

 

3) When Ray Allen was traded Sonics got, Jeff Green, delonte West, and Wally Z. Wally had that expiring contract. Jeff Green was seen as a big time prospect.

 

4) Rashard Lewis was given a ridiculous contract from the Orlando Magic that will make him the second highest paid player for the next 3 years (IN THE NBA) Also why Bring in Lewis when Lebron plays the 3? The only reason Lewis plays the 4 in Orlando is because Stan Van wants a three point firing squad. Lewis doesn't defend in the paint or at all, and wouldn't have been on Mike Brown's good side because of this.

 

5) Lebron never threatened to Bolt like Kobe. Difference was Lebron was winning and had a team that was projected to make the finals for the last two years.

 

6) Magic didn't put anyone around Howard? He's on the same boat for your side of this. Magic put a broken down VC, gave him Bass who didn't play. Oh yeah that's right Jamison isn't anything, but Lewis is I forgot that. My mistake.

 

All of thoses teams had something though. Expiring contracts and talented players to give back to those teams who traded away that talent. The Cavs were in a horrible state before Dan took over and even after he did. They Had Z contract that took of 11 million a season. They had Larry Hughes horrible contract so that Lebron could have another scorer next to him.

 

The team has never drafted well, Lebron is the only talent they have drafted in the last 10 years that has done something for the team, that was a can't miss.

 

 

Also They weren't the Arenas-less Wizards. I mean if you're going to go out of your way to ask BHK if he watches basketball, then you should ask yourself the same question. Gilbert Arenas, Antawn Jamison, Caron Butler, Brendan Haywood, Randy Foye, and Miller played 32 games with Gilbert before he got suspened. Antawn and Butler went on to play 9 more games together until Antawn was traded.

 

So answer. No, I am not saying a player was good because he was on the Wizards. The Gilbert Arenas still playing Wizards.

 

I'm sure they were in on the Lawson deal. Probably because he is just like Mo Williams, a shot first PG who thinks pass second.

 

Lastly, the talent surrounding Duncan wasnt traded for, the Big three down there were all drafted and developed by the Spurs.

[PeterHilton]

I'm still up in the air whether or not that the West situation is even real. The only two people I've heard back it up is Calvin Murphy (who nobody should have any reason to believe) and Colin Cowherd (who is a supreme blowhard) so I'm on the fence. There was definitely turmoil surrounding Mike Brown and his bad coaching decisions though.

 

Fair enough. But in either case that was not a team that was where it needed to be at mentally to compete with that Boston team.

[smurphy1014]

1) Gasol trade was fishy to everyone in the business. Jerry West was the GM and he gave them a great deal. The Griz were strapped for cash and the Lakers offered Kwame Brown, Jarvis Crenttion, and two first rounders. Both pickest were the 28th overall.

 

Actually West did not make that move it was the current GM Chris Wallace.