Peter.1986 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Now I've seen a few threads lately in different forums. The greatest wrestler of all time is debatable, and a lot of the different opinions come about because of what people want out of wrestling. I like the entertainment aspect, and if it was just old pure wrestling with no storyline I probably would have never gotten into it like I have. So id like to people's opinions of the greatest wrestlers of all time. I'm going to say list a top 5. Here's my top 5 and they are not necessarily my favourite 5. 1. The rock The reason I'm going for the rock is because I think he had it all, the only thing the rock probably doesn't come out near the top is his in ring skills, from a wrestling point of view. But from an entertainment point of view he is up there in ring. The tag most electrifying man in sports entertainment proves it. Also from a character point of view he was on top, apart from his very first gimmick as rocky miavia he got over and was brilliant, I loved him in the nation and onwards. I don't even need to mention his promos etc. I believe it's neck and neck between him and second place on been a name outside wrestling, but the rock edges it because before he went into films he was probably more we'll known outside wrestling. 2. Hulk hogan Only just misses out for me in second place. Hulkamania was one of the biggest things to happen in wrestling. He was known by everyone across the world. For his time he was brilliant at everything (except for his in ring skills) but from an entertainment point of view again he got over. The reason I'm putting him behind the rock is because hulk was booked to be the man he became and the rock wasn't booked so strong, but still came out on top when he lost or got beat up. I think if you ask people to name a wrestler it is between hulk and the rock who people name (mainly people who don't watch it) 3. Stone cold People will choose stone cold over the rock, the reason stone cold comes in 3rd is because first of all stone cold is not a big of a name as the other two. People say stone cold carried the attitude era but he didn't because he was missing for a while. His character was amazing, that's what got stone cold over, Vince McMahon did help make him and without Vince stone cold could possibly not have worked to the scale he did. Austin suited his character and it worked a bad ass that took no crap and beat all odds to get one over his boss. I think like hogan, stone cold was booked better than the rock, as he became bigger and bigger he didn't put people over as much as the rock, and his mic skills were not at the level of the rock or hulk (for hulks time) also stone cold was 36 at the time the rock became the top face of the company and the rock was 28, when Austin was 28 he wasn't anywhere near the level the rock was. He also refused to put Brock lesnar over which like I said the rock put people over and still came out on top. 4. The undertaker It gets tougher from from here as I believe the top 3 are in a bracket of their own, slightly behind them I think is the undertaker. Again like stone cold the one gimmick is what did it for him, but if you go back in time from pretty much the beginning the undertaker has always been one of the top guys there. His finisher is one of those moves where you think, 'that it' although in the early days you may look back and think it was a bit cheesy, for the time it was great. As he got older he added more. He didn't need to be brilliant on the mic as his presence alone was enough, Paul bearer did help him a lot but the undertaker always seemed to carry himself in the right way. Again another guy who people know outside of wrestling. 5. Shawn michaels Another tough one, hbk just gets the nod for 5th for me because of his all round skills, in dx, as the heartbreak kid, just about every character he played, he played well, he was great at making other people look good and still coming out on top, he is the best in ring worker out of the top 5 from a wrestling point of view, while still entertaining in the ring as well, at times he looked to turn face and the way he delivered the sweet chin music to let everyone know he was still the bad guy was always brilliant, I loved the little things he did the facial expressions etc. A few honerable mentions. Bret hart I actually used to class bret hart in the same bracket as hulk, rock and stone cold, however bret wasn't quite the same draw as these when on top. Arguably he could be 4th or 5th in my eyes, but I think he just didnt have quite the same entertainment factor the others did. Technically he would be higher than all of these and was in many main events in the WWF. Ric flair Flair is rated by many as the greatest of all time, I used to hate flair which shows how good he was because that's what you were meant to do. (One reason triple h is better than people give him credit for) once time passes and you get over hating him because he was a heel, you appreciate how good he was, again I don't think he would compete with the top 3 in entertainment/mainstream purposes, but could arguably be included instead of the undertaker or shawn michaels. John cena Personally I've not actually watched wrestling live for many years, but I do watch highlights and keep up with what's going on. John cena has been the main man in the WWE for a long time. It may have helped his cause had people such as Austin and the rock stayed around for longer as they may have put him over these two and elevated him to higher levels, but it could have turned out the other way too. I just don't think cena is exciting enough to join the top 5 Sting Now a few years ago I wouldn't have mentioned sting, but I've watched a lot of old stuff back over, and sting has to take a lot of credit for the wcw ever coming close to the WWF. I think what lets sting down is the fact he never made the move to the WWF while he was on top, as I don't think wcw ever really competed too much with WWF in terms of entertainment (from my point of view) don't get me wrong there were some great time the outsiders and formation of the nwo pretty much competes with anything the WWF did, but if you compare sting to the undertaker in terms of what they were given booking wise and competition wise sting was well behind. Macho man Macho man was another that had it all, arguably better all round than hulk hogan (certainly in ring) but he just didn't have the pull that hulk had. Now what ever reason that is down to is up for debate, it could possibly be size, hulk is more believable, or just the general character, hulk and hulkamania pretty much made hulk. I personally like macho man more than hulk and think he was better. But looking at it from a non biased point of view hulk outdid macho man. Similar to the rock was number 2 to stone cold in the late 90's macho never surpassed hulk hogan like the rock did. Maybe if he was around at a different time to hulk hogan he could possibly be known in the same light as the top 3. But I was close to adding him in 4th or 5th. Unhonorable mentions. Now these are the guys who were given the opportunity to make the top 5 maybe even more so than some on the list, but got nowhere near. Lex Luger Lex Luger was given the perfect opportunity to become then next hulk hogan, the WWE built him up And gave him the old USA v foreigner storyline (which was much bigger back then than it is now, see cena v rusev as an example) they also built up Yokozuna as Andre the giant, a beast who had never being slammed. He was given a greater platform than most on my top list, but for some reason (drugs, lack of talent) never made it anywhere near. Kevin Nash & Scott hall I put these together because they kind of follow the same path, personally I liked these two as diesel and razor Ramon, then as the outsider (possibly one of the best storylines) and in the nwo. But I add these two to the list because like lex Luger they were given the opportunities, maybe more so Kevin Nash but they were 2 of the top guys in the WWF and in wcw, who were given grey storylines, but for me they never got near the top of the list and I think personally of the guys who did get honerable mentions were given these opportunities they would have made the top 5 without a doubt. Goldberg Another guy given the opportunity to become the biggest wrestler, you could argue nobody was given a greater opportunity than him. A lot of wcw fans love Goldberg and I can't fault that, he was an unstoppable force. But I add him to this list because he was given the opportunity to become much more than he did, I think personally his in ring ability (to entertain) and his out of the ring skills were lacking. He was grey and believable as a beast, but would people want to watch him week in week out on the mic and wrestling 20-30 minute matches? Ultimate warrior Again another guy given the world, he actually took it into his own hands and everybody bought into the warrior, in his short period of been on top warrior could have easily been up there with the top 3, however similar to Goldberg fans bought into the hype of him squashing people, but that was pretty much all he was good at. Due to his own ego he never went as far as he could have, oand that's probably the reason he never got any better as a wrestler. Some people could see him as one of the greatest of all time purely because of how big he was in his short stint, but personally I think he was another guy that was given the opportunity but for one reason or another never took it As well as this there are people who I personally like who I think should take more credit than they get. People such as Mr perfect I thought he had it all and his gimmick suited him down to the ground but he was never afforded the opportunity. Triple h and kurt angle, hhh people think he's given more opportunities than he should have, but again I don't think he was excellent in any one thing apart from ability to be a heel, he was good as part of DX too, but I think it was just that he was given a great partner in shawn michaels, I've never hated two wrestlers as much as I hated kurt and hhh. kurt angle was another but had much more ability than triple h, but never quite made it as a top, top guy, if he didn't go off the rails we could be talking differently. Mankind, for the fact of what he did was just put other people over week after week, even when he was teaming up with the rock he was putting him over every week. Kane and big show, both guys started out as unstoppable monstors, big show took wcw by storm, then when he came to the WWF he was brilliant but once a guy like him takes a couple of losses he starts to lose his appeal, the same with Kane (I know before he was Kane he never did much) but he has to have had one of the greatest debuts ever, and I absolutely loved Kane as a heel or face. Both guys are getting a lot of heat now and the fans totally dislike them, but the years they've put in, if only they could have lived up to how they were 15 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ryland Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Moved to the Dog Pound as this has nothing to do with TEW2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter.1986 Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Adam Ryland" data-cite="Adam Ryland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="39736" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Moved to the Dog Pound as this has nothing to do with TEW2013.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Thanks, I didn't know where to put. Only put it there because it was a wrestling game</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonmack Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 <p>Kind of depends on what your criteria for greatest wrestler of all time is.</p><p> If you are going by mass media appeal, then yes The Rock and Hulk Hogan are going to be at the top as they arguably had more success and name recognition out of the ring. But by that criteria John Cena is greater than Shawn Michaels, as he has had more success and name value outside the industry as Shawn didn't do much outside the wrestling industry.</p><p> </p><p> Also your list is pretty much WWE only. If that's all you have really ever watched or seen then that would make sense but it leaves a huge amount of names off.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> To really get more debate on this, you should define what criteria you are using to determine greatest of all time.</p><p> </p><p> Is it name recognition?</p><p> Being famous doesn't necessarily mean you are a great wrestler in terms of actual skills. Hogan was probably the most famous wrestler in the world for 20 years, yet 90% of the roster of most wrestling federations had more actual ring skills than him.</p><p> </p><p> Or is it number of World Championships?</p><p> Bear in mind before the late 80's champions used to hold the belt for year(s) at a time and rarely swap the title, which is why Hogan can have more world championship reigns than Bruno Sammartino, yet he held the belt only 6 years total over 5 reigns while Sammartino had it for 9 years over 2.</p><p> </p><p> Is it actual skill in the ring?</p><p> Among the wrestling peers, Michaels, Bret Hart and Curt Henning were among the best actual workers in the ring.</p><p> </p><p> Are you just considering North American wrestlers?</p><p> Japan has some of the best wrestlers in history and a wrestling tradition as full and rich as the one here. There's a reason Americans go to Japan to wrestle far more than Japanese come here.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter.1986 Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Dragonmack" data-cite="Dragonmack" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="39736" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Kind of depends on what your criteria for greatest wrestler of all time is.<p> If you are going by mass media appeal, then yes The Rock and Hulk Hogan are going to be at the top as they arguably had more success and name recognition out of the ring. But by that criteria John Cena is greater than Shawn Michaels, as he has had more success and name value outside the industry as Shawn didn't do much outside the wrestling industry.</p><p> </p><p> Also your list is pretty much WWE only. If that's all you have really ever watched or seen then that would make sense but it leaves a huge amount of names off.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> To really get more debate on this, you should define what criteria you are using to determine greatest of all time.</p><p> </p><p> Is it name recognition?</p><p> Being famous doesn't necessarily mean you are a great wrestler in terms of actual skills. Hogan was probably the most famous wrestler in the world for 20 years, yet 90% of the roster of most wrestling federations had more actual ring skills than him.</p><p> </p><p> Or is it number of World Championships?</p><p> Bear in mind before the late 80's champions used to hold the belt for year(s) at a time and rarely swap the title, which is why Hogan can have more world championship reigns than Bruno Sammartino, yet he held the belt only 6 years total over 5 reigns while Sammartino had it for 9 years over 2.</p><p> </p><p> Is it actual skill in the ring?</p><p> Among the wrestling peers, Michaels, Bret Hart and Curt Henning were among the best actual workers in the ring.</p><p> </p><p> Are you just considering North American wrestlers?</p><p> Japan has some of the best wrestlers in history and a wrestling tradition as full and rich as the one here. There's a reason Americans go to Japan to wrestle far more than Japanese come here.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yeah basically I'm interested in hearing everyone's top 5. There is no criteria, only what you judge them on yourself. Personally for me it's about the entertainment, I believe hulk hogan, rock and Austin really put it on the map, but stone cold appealed more to wrestling fans, where as people such as hulk and the rock were known outside wrestling and got people to watch it because of them. </p><p> </p><p> I pretty much only watched the WWF/E but my knowledge extends to a little more than that. </p><p> </p><p> I would like to see how many people do include different people from different countries, as I personally am not that interested in Japanese or Mexican wrestling, and also don't think they were as mainstream as the guys I mentioned.</p><p> </p><p> But like I say I'm basing myne on the mainstream/entertainment aspect, and I should imagine others will base their on the reasons you've listed.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celuwyn Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 There is only one. http://41.media.tumblr.com/feee5dc0842f389846484ef123cedd7c/tumblr_n5tpp6CR1M1qlps06o6_400.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter.1986 Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 There is only one. http://41.media.tumblr.com/feee5dc0842f389846484ef123cedd7c/tumblr_n5tpp6CR1M1qlps06o6_400.jpg Haha location France. If I was French I'm sure he would be myne too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rone Rivendale Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 In ring ability: Mike Quackenbush Promo ability: Raven Most known: Hulk Hogan My personal favorite of all time: Disco Inferno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyver3 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 <p>God a top 5 feels so limiting so many awesome guys left out of that list </p><p> </p><p> 1 Shawn Michaels</p><p> 2 Ric Flair</p><p> 3 Bret Hart </p><p> 4 CM Punk </p><p> 5 Kenta Kobashi </p><p> </p><p> Then of course there's guys like Macho Man, Missawa, Muta, Perfect, Austin, Angle, Henson, Taker, Hashimoto, Sting, Funk the list could go on and on</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHK1978 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 <p>Let me see here is my top five...</p><p> </p><p> 1. The Duke of Dorchester Pete Doherty </p><p> 2. Iron Mike Sharpe</p><p> 3. Duane Gill</p><p> 4. Dusty Wolfe</p><p> 5. Steve Lombardi</p><p> </p><p> Special mention...Barry Horowitz</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mootinie Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Mitsuharu Misawa & Ric Flair. Nobody else is in their league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celuwyn Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Mootinie" data-cite="Mootinie" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="39736" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Mitsuharu Misawa & Ric Flair. Nobody else is in their league.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Ric flair is overrated</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Nection Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 <p>5 is so hard for me to narrow as far as my personal favorites</p><p> </p><p> 1.)The Rock</p><p> 2.)Ric Flair</p><p> 3.)Stone Cold</p><p> 4.)CM Punk</p><p> 5.)Chris Benoit</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Most of them is from my childhood and for the longest time I thought there was nobody that was going to come close until Punk caught my attention.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter.1986 Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Rone Rivendale" data-cite="Rone Rivendale" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="39736" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>In ring ability: Mike Quackenbush<p> </p><p> Promo ability: Raven</p><p> </p><p> Most known: Hulk Hogan</p><p> </p><p> My personal favorite of all time: Disco Inferno</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Personally I don't think 3 of these should be anywhere near the top (although you said disco inferno is your personal favourite) but that's why I asked the question it's interesting to see what other people think</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="guyver3" data-cite="guyver3" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="39736" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>God a top 5 feels so limiting so many awesome guys left out of that list <p> </p><p> 1 Shawn Michaels</p><p> 2 Ric Flair</p><p> 3 Bret Hart </p><p> 4 CM Punk </p><p> 5 Kenta Kobashi </p><p> </p><p> Then of course there's guys like Macho Man, Missawa, Muta, Perfect, Austin, Angle, Henson, Taker, Hashimoto, Sting, Funk the list could go on and on</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I said top 5 so we didn't go on forever, then I thought well there's people I can't not mention lol. Yours is an interesting mix, old and new, but with no mention of hulk and the rock. A few Japanese. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Celuwyn" data-cite="Celuwyn" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="39736" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Ric flair is overrated</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I think so too , i appreciate him much more now, but I still think he's probably seen as the best ever by a lot of people who don't or didn't like the WWF/E</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> I'd be quite interested in running a daily/weekly match card. </p><p> </p><p> somewhere between 5-10 matches 1v1 </p><p> Everyone has a vote on who is on the card and whoever gets the most votes makes it.</p><p> everyone on the forum gets to choose who wins in what category leading to an overall winner.</p><p> Rankings are made and each wrestler moves up or down depending on the result. Whoever is the top is the current champion.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> I think it would be interesting to find the overall results. Would anybody be interested?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPBHBK Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 <p>In ring ability: Bret Hart</p><p> </p><p> Promo ability: Ric Flair</p><p> </p><p> Most known: Hulk Hogan</p><p> </p><p> My personal favorite of all time: Shawn Michaels</p><p> </p><p> 1.)Shawn Michaels</p><p> 2.)Undertaker</p><p> 3.)Ric Flair</p><p> 4.)Shinsuke Nakamura</p><p> 5.)Steve Austin</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPBHBK Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Celuwyn" data-cite="Celuwyn" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="39736" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Ric flair is overrated</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> No he isnt he could have a great 60 Minute match with so many. He got so many others to the top of the card and was able to cut magnificent promos.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysin Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Ric Flair Kurt Angle Shawn Michaels Ricky Steamboat Nick Bockwinkel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter.1986 Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="39736" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Ric Flair<p> Kurt Angle</p><p> Shawn Michaels</p><p> Ricky Steamboat</p><p> Nick Bockwinkel</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Definitely some good names here. I'm guessing your basing it from an actual wrestling point of view? The top 3 guys certainly had more than just wrestling ability though, but certainly a list of guys you would want to see wrestle longer matches</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysin Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Peter.1986" data-cite="Peter.1986" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="39736" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Definitely some good names here. I'm guessing your basing it from an actual wrestling point of view? The top 3 guys certainly had more than just wrestling ability though, but certainly a list of guys you would want to see wrestle longer matches</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Well yeah, you're asking for the greatest wrestlers of all time, not the greatest entertainers <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png"></p><p> </p><p> All jokes aside, Flair, Michaels, Angle, and especially Bockwinkel are some of the greatest of all time on the mic alone. If you throw in their amazing in ring abilities they're the total package. While Steamboat lacked the mic skills, his in ring ability more than made up for it.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter.1986 Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="CPBHBK" data-cite="CPBHBK" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="39736" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>In ring ability: Bret Hart<p> </p><p> Promo ability: Ric Flair</p><p> </p><p> Most known: Hulk Hogan</p><p> </p><p> My personal favorite of all time: Shawn Michaels</p><p> </p><p> 1.)Shawn Michaels</p><p> 2.)Undertaker</p><p> 3.)Ric Flair</p><p> 4.)Shinsuke Nakamura</p><p> 5.)Steve Austin</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> There seems to be a theme here with hbk and flair, do you think these two maybe just lacked the drawing power hulk, Austin and the rock had? Although actual better from a technical point of view?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter.1986 Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="39736" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Well yeah, you're asking for the greatest wrestlers of all time, not the greatest entertainers <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /><p> </p><p> All jokes aside, Flair, Michaels, Angle, and especially Bockwinkel are some of the greatest of all time on the mic alone. If you throw in their amazing in ring abilities they're the total package. While Steamboat lacked the mic skills, his in ring ability more than made up for it.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yeah I just thought with the way you did your lost maybe beer hart would fit in? Less of an entertainer. I do wonder sometimes if people who pick beet don't pick hbk similar to people who pick Austin don't pick the rock, because they've spent most of their life's arguing with their best mate who is better lol</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysin Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Peter.1986" data-cite="Peter.1986" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="39736" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yeah I just thought with the way you did your lost maybe beer hart would fit in? Less of an entertainer. I do wonder sometimes if people who pick beet don't pick hbk similar to people who pick Austin don't pick the rock, because they've spent most of their life's arguing with their best mate who is better lol</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Oh yes, Bret definitely belongs on the list of greatest workers of all time. Same with Austin. Before his neck injury Austin was a great wrestler. When he recovered he evolved into more of a brawler/entertainer. I was trying to limit my list to five. If I kept going I'd include the likes of Bret, Austin, Dean Malenko, Curt Hennig, Randy Savage, Diamond Dallas Page, and CM Punk.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mootinie Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Peter.1986" data-cite="Peter.1986" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="39736" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>There seems to be a theme here with hbk and flair, do you think these two maybe just lacked the drawing power hulk, Austin and the rock had?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> No. Austin inspired a boom period, but WWF was fine business-wise when he was absent. Same for The Rock, who is ultimately irrelevant since he was a draw during that same boom period and since the highest rated segment in WWE television history also includes Mick Foley, I'm not sure where I stand on The Rock's drawing power during the Attitude Era. I also agree with CM Punk in that WrestleMania is the draw, so I'm disregarding The Rock's matches with John Cena, especially since the Survivor Series where The Rock tagged with Cena did a bad number (which Miz & R-Truth got the blame for lol lol lol)</p><p> </p><p> Flair was a big draw in the territories during his first and second NWA World Title runs. He wrestled world-wide practically, and was drawing sellouts everywhere he went (according to his WWE documentary, I haven't checked the actual facts since I'm not sure they even exist). Don't forget first Starrcade and the early Clashes either, he drew big for them. He was also a draw post-WWF run, WCW did better numbers when he came back than they were doing when he was gone. His body of work is comparable only to Mitsuharu Misawa, who on wrestling ability alone is my number one pick. I don't think there has ever been a better wrestler than Misawa, who has received more five star matches from Dave Meltzer than anybody else. These two are the greatest IMO, with Kobashi a close third since Misawa's best matches were against him and Kobashi also has a substantial body of work and was a draw as well. NOAH is practically dead without these two gods.</p><p> </p><p> Bret Hart is up there in terms of wrestling ability, but his drawing power is questionable. He was the face of WWF during one of their worst periods business-wise, obviously that wasn't his fault but it still counts for something. He also didn't move WCW's numbers during his terrible run there and his leaving from WWF actually benefited them. Imagine being so good that a company is better off once you leave... Not a draw, moving on.</p><p> </p><p> Ricky Steamboat was never put in a position to draw, depending on what you think of WrestleMania III. He's up there alongside the greats in term of wrestling ability and IMO, he blows Curt Hennig and those kind of guys out the water in that regard. Your Chris Benoits and your Kurt Angles fall into this category too, good wrestlers with a good body of work, but never great, they had their moments. Benoit slightly ahead of Angle in that Wild Pegasus vs. The Great Sasuke is a timeless classic, and Angle has never had a match like that in my books.</p><p> </p><p> Hulk Hogan? Biggest draw in wrestling history, spanning two decades from 1984 all the way to 1998 when WCW destroyed any drawing power he had left. Although with questionable wrestling ability, it would pain anybody to put his name here. However, he is the Rikidozan of American wrestling, the El Santo, everything before him became instantly somewhat irrelevant and he's responsible for a boom period that wouldn't be seen again until Austin. It counts for something, he's the first name on people's mind when they think about wrestling.</p><p> </p><p> Shawn Michaels, just like Bret Hart, was on top during a lean period, although it should be noted he formed D-X... which was a landmark moment, even if I hated them. Body of work, he's up there. Razor Ramon in '94, Taker in '97, Taker in '09 and '10. Angle, Jericho, Flair, HHH - just like Flair, he spans time periods and has put on great matches his entire career, but unlike Flair, look at the talent HBK got to work with. The jury is out on whether he would have carried '89 Luger to anything substantial.</p><p> </p><p> Sorry for the rambles. Here's something resembling a list, but even then, there's so names I want to mention but can't. I love Randy Savage, he's a personal favourite and all, but he lacks on his body of work. <img alt=":(" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/frown.png.e6b571745a30fe6a6f2e918994141a47.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> 1. Mitsuharu Misawa</p><p> 2. Ric Flair</p><p> 3. Kenta Kobashi</p><p> 4. Shawn Michaels</p><p> 5. Stone Cold</p><p> 6. Hulk Hogan</p><p> 7. Bret Hart</p><p> 8. Ricky Steamboat</p><p> 9. Jushin Liger</p><p> 10. Chris Benoit</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter.1986 Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Mootinie" data-cite="Mootinie" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="39736" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>No. Austin inspired a boom period, but WWF was fine business-wise when he was absent. Same for The Rock, who is ultimately irrelevant since he was a draw during that same boom period and since the highest rated segment in WWE television history also includes Mick Foley, I'm not sure where I stand on The Rock's drawing power during the Attitude Era. I also agree with CM Punk in that WrestleMania is the draw, so I'm disregarding The Rock's matches with John Cena, especially since the Survivor Series where The Rock tagged with Cena did a bad number (which Miz & R-Truth got the blame for lol lol lol)<p> </p><p> Flair was a big draw in the territories during his first and second NWA World Title runs. He wrestled world-wide practically, and was drawing sellouts everywhere he went (according to his WWE documentary, I haven't checked the actual facts since I'm not sure they even exist). Don't forget first Starrcade and the early Clashes either, he drew big for them. He was also a draw post-WWF run, WCW did better numbers when he came back than they were doing when he was gone. His body of work is comparable only to Mitsuharu Misawa, who on wrestling ability alone is my number one pick. I don't think there has ever been a better wrestler than Misawa, who has received more five star matches from Dave Meltzer than anybody else. These two are the greatest IMO, with Kobashi a close third since Misawa's best matches were against him and Kobashi also has a substantial body of work and was a draw as well. NOAH is practically dead without these two gods.</p><p> </p><p> Bret Hart is up there in terms of wrestling ability, but his drawing power is questionable. He was the face of WWF during one of their worst periods business-wise, obviously that wasn't his fault but it still counts for something. He also didn't move WCW's numbers during his terrible run there and his leaving from WWF actually benefited them. Imagine being so good that a company is better off once you leave... Not a draw, moving on.</p><p> </p><p> Ricky Steamboat was never put in a position to draw, depending on what you think of WrestleMania III. He's up there alongside the greats in term of wrestling ability and IMO, he blows Curt Hennig and those kind of guys out the water in that regard. Your Chris Benoits and your Kurt Angles fall into this category too, good wrestlers with a good body of work, but never great, they had their moments. Benoit slightly ahead of Angle in that Wild Pegasus vs. The Great Sasuke is a timeless classic, and Angle has never had a match like that in my books.</p><p> </p><p> Hulk Hogan? Biggest draw in wrestling history, spanning two decades from 1984 all the way to 1998 when WCW destroyed any drawing power he had left. Although with questionable wrestling ability, it would pain anybody to put his name here. However, he is the Rikidozan of American wrestling, the El Santo, everything before him became instantly somewhat irrelevant and he's responsible for a boom period that wouldn't be seen again until Austin. It counts for something, he's the first name on people's mind when they think about wrestling.</p><p> </p><p> Shawn Michaels, just like Bret Hart, was on top during a lean period, although it should be noted he formed D-X... which was a landmark moment, even if I hated them. Body of work, he's up there. Razor Ramon in '94, Taker in '97, Taker in '09 and '10. Angle, Jericho, Flair, HHH - just like Flair, he spans time periods and has put on great matches his entire career, but unlike Flair, look at the talent HBK got to work with. The jury is out on whether he would have carried '89 Luger to anything substantial.</p><p> </p><p> Sorry for the rambles. Here's something resembling a list, but even then, there's so names I want to mention but can't. I love Randy Savage, he's a personal favourite and all, but he lacks on his body of work. <img alt=":(" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/frown.png.e6b571745a30fe6a6f2e918994141a47.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> 1. Mitsuharu Misawa</p><p> 2. Ric Flair</p><p> 3. Kenta Kobashi</p><p> 4. Shawn Michaels</p><p> 5. Stone Cold</p><p> 6. Hulk Hogan</p><p> 7. Bret Hart</p><p> 8. Ricky Steamboat</p><p> 9. Jushin Liger</p><p> 10. Chris Benoit</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> No don't be sorry I'm interested to see how and why people have done the list the way they have. </p><p> </p><p> My only point with what you say is, wrestlemania is and was the major draw, but in the attitude era was it? Because to me around the late 90's and 00-01 wrestlemania didn't seem like it was that much bigger, because every week and every PPV was that big. I think the royal rumble around that time was more anticipated. Austin was given 3 wins at the royal rumble around this time.</p><p> </p><p> One of my reasons for the rock over Austin was Austin had good feuds but it was the one with Vince and the corporation that elevated him, but the rock seems to get people interested in everything he did (once he became a top draw) I will admit though I am biased as the rock was my favourite wrestler from when he was in the nation, and I pretty much stopped watching it religiously when he started filming. </p><p> </p><p> In fact I have many reasons why but I don't want to turn it into a 'why I think the rock is better' thread lol.</p><p> </p><p> One question though, is how do you decide where the Japanese wrestlers fit in the list? No objections to their inclusion, just how do you compare them?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwt13 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 <p>Saying Goldberg didn't grab the brass ring so to speak is insane,the man took what WCW gave him and ran,he's one of the biggest draws in pro wrestling history, he sold out the Georgia Dome in 4 days for a Nitro.</p><p> </p><p> Anyway my top 5 all time</p><p> </p><p> 5. Hulk Hogan: Simpley put there would be no WWE today without Hogan, and you could argue that Vince would have found someone else but at the time Hogan was bigger than wrestling and WWF would have never gotten to the heights it did without Hogan.</p><p> </p><p> 4: Shawn Michaels: One of the best mixes of mic and in ring skill, and was able to reinvent himself whenever he felt it was need to stay on top for many years.</p><p> </p><p> 3. Jake Roberts: Simply one of the greatest performers of all time, In ring, one the mic, character, and in ring psychology. People never give him the respect he deserves.</p><p> </p><p> 2. Ric Flair: The man responsible for the Golden days of the NWA/WCW one of if not the greatest promo guys and an ability to wrestle for 60 min every night in his prime </p><p> </p><p> 1. The Rock: This is simple to me he wasn't great in ring but man he turned out some classics. He is one of the only men who can say that he is bigger than the business (Hogan could but he made the business pretty much what we know it as today) and can still be gold on the mic and put on a good match when he is called on.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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