Sabu Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 SAISHO is one of the most interesting promotions to me in TEW. They are in a unique situation of being an offshoot of PWGH, which usually means they're destined to fail. I just want to get a discussion started, maybe some tips about how to run them without going bankrupt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LigerLiger Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 I've never been able to not go broke playing SAISHO without giving myself loads of money, would be interested if anyone did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabu Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Liger!Liger!" data-cite="Liger!Liger!" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45053" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I've never been able to not go broke playing SAISHO without giving myself loads of money, would be interested if anyone did.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I tried doing monthly 2 hour shows with them but I'd still lose money, and wouldn't really grow much. Then BHOTWG came in and took my main eventers...<img alt=":mad:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/mad.png.69834f23b9a8bf290d98375f56f1c794.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Horse Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 <p>This thread starting motivated me to at least try them out and man, this is going to be tough. I do ok when running just one 2 hour show a month in that I make small financial gains but even with a quality show I'm finishing last or second to last in the regional battles. With the congestion in Kinki, I mainly run Kanto and have used the A-1 Grand Prix tournaments as an excuse to run more than 1 show in the month before and month of those tournaments. I've saved money by going with cheap talent that will become loyal(Arakaki, Kita, Itou, MUSCLE, Stealth Z, Matsumoto, Miyake, Katou, and Utagawa). I've also mixed in cheap foreign talent as well(Wolfsbaine, Smooth, Rob Reynolds) and this has kept me in goodish shape. </p><p> </p><p> It seems like sooner than later BHOTWG and GCG get a little signing happy and that's when I lost Billy Robinson, Fujio Narahashi, KAZ, Nigel Svensson, Tobei Sugimura, Morimasa Kato, Stunner Sayuki, and The Diamond Dogs. But I've used this opportunity to sign some old dudes to try and pass along stats to all the young lions on my roster. Its fun and I'm not losing money at a rate high enough that I have anything to worry about in the next year or so.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabu Posted March 13, 2018 Author Share Posted March 13, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="El Horse" data-cite="El Horse" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45053" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>This thread starting motivated me to at least try them out and man, this is going to be tough. I do ok when running just one 2 hour show a month in that I make small financial gains but even with a quality show I'm finishing last or second to last in the regional battles. With the congestion in Kinki, I mainly run Kanto and have used the A-1 Grand Prix tournaments as an excuse to run more than 1 show in the month before and month of those tournaments. I've saved money by going with cheap talent that will become loyal(Arakaki, Kita, Itou, MUSCLE, Stealth Z, Matsumoto, Miyake, Katou, and Utagawa). I've also mixed in cheap foreign talent as well(Wolfsbaine, Smooth, Rob Reynolds) and this has kept me in goodish shape. <p> </p><p> It seems like sooner than later BHOTWG and GCG get a little signing happy and that's when I lost Billy Robinson, Fujio Narahashi, KAZ, Nigel Svensson, Tobei Sugimura, Morimasa Kato, Stunner Sayuki, and The Diamond Dogs. But I've used this opportunity to sign some old dudes to try and pass along stats to all the young lions on my roster. Its fun and I'm not losing money at a rate high enough that I have anything to worry about in the next year or so.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Ay I'm glad that I could inspire someone to try them out! Just a couple of questions. How many matches would you put on a card and what format did you use for the A1 tournaments?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Horse Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Sabu" data-cite="Sabu" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45053" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Ay I'm glad that I could inspire someone to try them out! Just a couple of questions. How many matches would you put on a card and what format did you use for the A1 tournaments?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I actually booked the A-1 in three nights and I booked two one night 8 man tournaments and then the winners of each facing in the final night. It was a rather large financial loser in Feb and March do it this way, but I felt the increase in pop for running 4 shows in a two month swing makes it worth doing. In between each round I threw in young lions matches.</p><p> </p><p> As far as my match format I still run rather large shows considering my size and the attendance at my events. I usually run an 8 match card and outside of the main event I keep young/cheap talent in every match. To also help with costs I also ran young lion gauntlet matches that end with an 8 man tag or something to take up the majority of a card then I'd just book a semi main and a main event and call it a show. On those shows I will run more than 8 matches but they are usually much shorter length.</p><p> </p><p> After the big event in the summer that kills the Japanese economy I scheduled a rest month to recover funds and prepare me for all the money I would lose the rest of the year. I'm currently in May 2017 and while I'm finally starting to draw a crowd again my funds dried up fast and I'm at less than $20,000 and Miwa is working for free. I still am optimistic that I'll be fine in the end as apparently all I need to make minimal gains in a month is draw 550 people and run shows of at least 50.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysin Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 What real life company should I watch to get a feel for SAISHO's product? The logo makes me think maybe Noah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Horse Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45053" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>What real life company should I watch to get a feel for SAISHO's product? The logo makes me think maybe Noah?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Current NOAH isn't a terrible comparison. They are the most relaxed as far as jr heavyweight guys beating "heavyweight" guys as Marafuji and KENTA are former champs and SAISHO's king it seems like is KAZ who is a jr heavy who fights that style on top of that.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysin Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 My goal was to treat heavyweights and juniors on skill/usefulness scale. Essentially an openweight company with a merit based push system. Like I’ll reward guys who get hot regardless of be their size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon The GOAT Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Current NOAH isn't a terrible comparison. They are the most relaxed as far as jr heavyweight guys beating "heavyweight" guys as Marafuji and KENTA are former champs and SAISHO's king it seems like is KAZ who is a jr heavy who fights that style on top of that. To be fair, NOAH aren't special in that regard. Goto was a junior, Omega was a junior, Balor was a junior, Naito was a junior, Ibushi was a junior, Shibata was a junior, Okada/Nak/Tanahashi all could've passed as juniors but were tossed into the heavyweight before hand, ZSJ is a junior competing as a heavyweight atm. So I wouldn't really use that as a reason to compare SAISHO & NOAH tbh. Both Marufuji & KENTA went through the standard 'proving themselves as Juniors before going up to Heavyweights' process. SAISHO doesn't seem to care at all for weight-based divisions based on the organization of titles but it's also a pretty small company physically. My guess would be SAISHO was based off Wrestle-1 (I've never watched a Wrestle-1 show so I could be wrong). Both of them have no divisions (Wrestle-1 just added a cruiser division in 2015), the naming conventions for the tournaments, the fact that it was opened because Mito Miwa didn't want to work under Nobuatsuko (much like Mutoh didn't want to work under Masayuki Uchida in AJPW). Mutoh wants Wrestle-1 to be more entertainment based, Miwa wants to make Wrestle-1 slightly more modern. Etc. etc. I've convinced myself SAISHO = Wrestle-1 now. EDIT: I hope one of you guys do a SAISHO dynasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Horse Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jon The GOAT" data-cite="Jon The GOAT" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45053" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>To be fair, NOAH aren't special in that regard. Goto was a junior, Omega was a junior, Balor was a junior, Naito was a junior, Ibushi was a junior, Shibata was a junior, Okada/Nak/Tanahashi all could've passed as juniors but were tossed into the heavyweight before hand, ZSJ is a junior competing as a heavyweight atm. So I wouldn't really use that as a reason to compare SAISHO & NOAH tbh. Both Marufuji & KENTA went through the standard 'proving themselves as Juniors before going up to Heavyweights' process. <p> </p><p> SAISHO doesn't seem to care at all for weight-based divisions based on the organization of titles but it's also a pretty small company physically. </p><p> </p><p> My guess would be SAISHO was based off Wrestle-1 (I've never watched a Wrestle-1 show so I could be wrong). Both of them have no divisions (Wrestle-1 just added a cruiser division in 2015), the naming conventions for the tournaments, the fact that it was opened because Mito Miwa didn't want to work under Nobuatsuko (much like Mutoh didn't want to work under Masayuki Uchida in AJPW). Mutoh wants Wrestle-1 to be more entertainment based, Miwa wants to make Wrestle-1 slightly more modern. Etc. etc. I've convinced myself SAISHO = Wrestle-1 now.</p><p> </p><p> EDIT: I hope one of you guys do a SAISHO dynasty.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yeah, but outside of Devitt none of those guys are juniors, they WERE, but Goto, Omega, Shibata, and Naito are all in the 220-230ish range, in Kenny's case he was 230 and still a junior for some reason.</p><p> </p><p> WRESTLE 1 also is a pretty good comparison in that there roster is the same size as SAISHO and they don't have a big concern about weight classes. The knock against the NOAH comparison is there isn't really the legacy with SAISHO as it was always small time, when NOAH was actually the top promotion in Japan around 2005. So WRESTLE 1 is a better comparison for sure.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysin Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 I’ve been meaning to give a Japanese promotions diary a go and SAISHO almost feels like a blank slate. I just wanted to get a good feel for the product before jumping in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon The GOAT Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45053" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I’ve been meaning to give a Japanese promotions diary a go and SAISHO almost feels like a blank slate.<p> </p><p> I just wanted to get a good feel for the product before jumping in.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Would love to read it~ </p><p> </p><p> I'm always split between my enjoyment of the NJPW structure and my enjoyment of the big boys from AJPW/BJW (Hideki Suzuki, Okabayashi, Ishikawa, Sekimoto, Miyahara) in terms of what I want to tackle on with my image of a Japanese company.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LigerLiger Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45053" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I’ve been meaning to give a Japanese promotions diary a go and SAISHO almost feels like a blank slate.<p> </p><p> I just wanted to get a good feel for the product before jumping in.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> SAISHO in that regard is really great for a diary. Their whole deal so far was being mini PGHW, so now it's up to you to write their story.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabu Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 I love seeing all this discussion about SAISHO very inspiring! I'm still learning booking, in terms of long term and short term, so I haven't approached writing a diary. But it'd be great to see one using SAISHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysin Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 http://greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2284008#post2284008 Started up my SAISHO diary attempt. I booked a throwaway New Year's Show so I could jump straight into the A-1. Feel free to make some predictions for the first night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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