The All Elite Wrestling Discussion Thread

[Croquemitaine]

I'm disappointed that nothing* was revealed regarding the MJF/Joe/Devil storyline, but we shouldn't be surprised that the match didn't happen given that Max has a torn labrum.

Cage/Copland was never going to have a clean ending. That'll have to wait for a PPV match.

Ben Mankiewicz > CM Punk.

Happy to see Riho back.

I know I'm probably alone one this, but I'm so so sick of Super-Mox and his super-booking. Is he a top star? Sure. Should he be the most protected guy in the whole freakin' company? Not even close.

 

* I was hoping at least one flunky would be unmasked, although it's probable that revealing even one of them will give away the whole show.

 

[aXminster]

1 hour ago, Croquemitaine said:

I know I'm probably alone one this, but I'm so so sick of Super-Mox and his super-booking. Is he a top star? Sure. Should he be the most protected guy in the whole freakin' company? Not even close.

Mox's best work was around the time when he first won the AEW Championship. Pretending to join the Inner Circle and all that.

Besides that, if you've seen one Mox promo, you've seen them all. It's the same with the matches, with a few exceptions.

[Matt_Black]

Yeah, AEW in general has gotten predictable with their booking, and it's become very apparent in the tournament. One of the things that really distinguished AEW from WWE in that first year is that there would be legitimate surprises. Like, when they announced Cody Rhodes vs. Darby Allin for their second show. "Let's see- the executive Vice President, or the indy guy I've never heard of? I wonder who's going to win that...?" And then, Darby wound up taking Cody to a draw, and fans were all "Whaaaaa...?"

 

They still pull out some shocking upsets from time to time, like when FTR lost the tag team championships, but those moments are few and far between now.

[milamber]

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by milamber

[FellaLibby]

10 hours ago, Matt_Black said:

Yeah, AEW in general has gotten predictable with their booking, and it's become very apparent in the tournament. One of the things that really distinguished AEW from WWE in that first year is that there would be legitimate surprises. Like, when they announced Cody Rhodes vs. Darby Allin for their second show. "Let's see- the executive Vice President, or the indy guy I've never heard of? I wonder who's going to win that...?" And then, Darby wound up taking Cody to a draw, and fans were all "Whaaaaa...?"

 

They still pull out some shocking upsets from time to time, like when FTR lost the tag team championships, but those moments are few and far between now.

A time they surprised me was this classic thing, was Mark Briscoe getting eliminated in this tournament without getting a win. And while I still expect Briscoe to win at least one in his block, I would've thought they would give the impression he had a chance.

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

Love what I've seen from Trish Adora. She's pretty great in the ring and has some real star quality. She hits pretty hard too and someone the fans can get behind. Hope Tony gives Trisha some more AEW matches.

Trish is terrific in TEW RW mods, and she seems to have the future champion potential in real life that the modmakers assign her.

I don't really get Abadon. They're too small for me to take the taker-style no-selling seriously. Feel they also needed to presented better for the gimmick to get over. Tony presented Abadon as a jobber early on and really did them dirty.

They do have a great look, though. Maybe they would do better in a manager/interference runner role? Abadon would fit in with the House of Black, tagging with either Malakai or Julia depending on what the situation requires.

Abadon has great fashion sense. They could really help the other members with outfits. Brody King, among others, could use a new look.

Julia Hart is an absolute stud. Everything she touches right now is great. Her post-match confrontation with Abadon was excellent.

I think Julia Hart's on the same level as Jamie Hayter now. When AEW has a women's revolution, Hart and Hayter will lead it.

[The Swanton825]

16 minutes ago, ColdBloodedSausageMaker said:

I don't really get Abadon. They're too small for me to take the taker-style no-selling seriously. Feel they also needed to presented better for the gimmick to get over. Tony presented Abadon as a jobber early on and really did them dirty.

I think Abadon's no-selling would work better if they acted more movie zombie-like with it and less Undertaker zombie-like. Like, don't do the stone expression on the sit up and instead lurch forward and keep their arms loose like their body is moving out of sync with the signals from their brain.

[milamber]

Getting good matches and promos from the C2.

 

[Matt_Black]

6 hours ago, ColdBloodedSausageMaker said:

 I don't really get Abadon. They're too small for me to take the taker-style no-selling seriously.

The little kid from Pet Sematary was tiny too, and he was creepy AF.

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

8 hours ago, Matt_Black said:

The little kid from Pet Sematary was tiny too, and he was creepy AF.

So is Darby, but Darby is a high-flyer. He doesn't go out there and try to fight like Vader.

[aXminster]

Abadon is a terrible gimmick. It's like ECW's Zombie. Feels like something that would fit with the Dungeon of Doom. Just cringe and lame.

Just like when Statlander pretended to be an alien and touched people's noses for some reason. No point in having that type of character in 2023/24.

I'd love to see more Joshis on AEW. While I don't follow it at all, that was the plan for the women's division from the start and covid ruined it. That's why I'm really excited to watch Mariah May wrestle, since she was on Stardom and that has been a highly-regarded promotion for some time (and I tried but couldn't get into it).

[CQI13]

54 minutes ago, aXminster said:

Abadon is a terrible gimmick. It's like ECW's Zombie. Feels like something that would fit with the Dungeon of Doom. Just cringe and lame.

Just like when Statlander pretended to be an alien and touched people's noses for some reason. No point in having that type of character in 2023/24.

I'd love to see more Joshis on AEW. While I don't follow it at all, that was the plan for the women's division from the start and covid ruined it. That's why I'm really excited to watch Mariah May wrestle, since she was on Stardom and that has been a highly-regarded promotion for some time (and I tried but couldn't get into it).

Or people going along with/selling for Orange Cassidy, yet here we are.

[Eternal Phoenix]

You know, I think sometimes wrestling fans forget that wrestling is ultimately glorified stage fighting. It's theatre. Entertainment. It's okay to have preferences, but to say (or even imply) that only one style/type of wrestling is willfully ignoring the prior statement. I mean, if that was true DDT would have collapsed a long time ago. AEW, from the start, has been committed to having as wide a variety of wrestling styles and character types as possible.

I know some people don't like Orange Cassidy, but a big part of why he's so over is the variation in the gimmick. It's a master class in out of ring psychology. The valleys of low effort and motivation better highlight the peaks of high effort and  motivation, which is perfect for a babyface. It makes the heels who menace him seem more imposing as they provoke a stronger reaction than normal. No, not eery babyface should be like this, because then it wouldn't work. In fact, that's precisely why it does work, because nobody else is doing it. Orange is the only one who has such a wide gap between those peaks and valleys. It also helps that he's a small, agile guy and not a huge, jacked muscle man. In a sea of guys who have to yell to get across that they're more motivated than ever, Orange only has to speak in complete sentences in a serious tone of voice. That's damn fine and extremely consistent character work.

Abadon I'm willing to give a chance because I'm ) an Undertaker mark from way back thus I'm eager to see someone else pull off a similar gimmick, 2) I know that the person behind the facepaint has been literally working their ass off to get this chance. As in they're at least 30 pounds lighter than they were when they debuted for AEW a few years back. And 3), well, see the top statements again. Theatricality is, in my opinion, an integral part of wrestling. And I don't just mean pyro and presentation. I'm an eternal advocate for creative freedom within the limits of good taste, you see. We live in a world where a literal dead man and his pyromaniac brother were major characters for over 20 years. Where Steve Borden has played a surfer, The Crow, and the Joker. Where the insanity that was Broken Matt Hardy not only worked but got so over he won a main event title with it. So if Abadon is genuinely getting a run of appearances, I'm happy to give her a shot.

But then again, I'm very different from most posters to this thread. I prefer to seek the good in something rather than complain about the bad. As CinemaWins says, liking things is better than not liking things. Though that's just how I feel about it. Y'all can say whatever you want. Don't mind me.

[CQI13]

1 hour ago, Eternal Phoenix said:

You know, I think sometimes wrestling fans forget that wrestling is ultimately glorified stage fighting. It's theatre. Entertainment. It's okay to have preferences, but to say (or even imply) that only one style/type of wrestling is willfully ignoring the prior statement. I mean, if that was true DDT would have collapsed a long time ago. AEW, from the start, has been committed to having as wide a variety of wrestling styles and character types as possible.

I know some people don't like Orange Cassidy, but a big part of why he's so over is the variation in the gimmick. It's a master class in out of ring psychology. The valleys of low effort and motivation better highlight the peaks of high effort and  motivation, which is perfect for a babyface. It makes the heels who menace him seem more imposing as they provoke a stronger reaction than normal. No, not eery babyface should be like this, because then it wouldn't work. In fact, that's precisely why it does work, because nobody else is doing it. Orange is the only one who has such a wide gap between those peaks and valleys. It also helps that he's a small, agile guy and not a huge, jacked muscle man. In a sea of guys who have to yell to get across that they're more motivated than ever, Orange only has to speak in complete sentences in a serious tone of voice. That's damn fine and extremely consistent character work.

Abadon I'm willing to give a chance because I'm ) an Undertaker mark from way back thus I'm eager to see someone else pull off a similar gimmick, 2) I know that the person behind the facepaint has been literally working their ass off to get this chance. As in they're at least 30 pounds lighter than they were when they debuted for AEW a few years back. And 3), well, see the top statements again. Theatricality is, in my opinion, an integral part of wrestling. And I don't just mean pyro and presentation. I'm an eternal advocate for creative freedom within the limits of good taste, you see. We live in a world where a literal dead man and his pyromaniac brother were major characters for over 20 years. Where Steve Borden has played a surfer, The Crow, and the Joker. Where the insanity that was Broken Matt Hardy not only worked but got so over he won a main event title with it. So if Abadon is genuinely getting a run of appearances, I'm happy to give her a shot.

But then again, I'm very different from most posters to this thread. I prefer to seek the good in something rather than complain about the bad. As CinemaWins says, liking things is better than not liking things. Though that's just how I feel about it. Y'all can say whatever you want. Don't mind me.

I get *everything* you are saying. I was a huge fan of Breezango, and thought they should have beaten the Usos at that PPV they had. But my (limited) experience with OC feels different to me. He adds variety to the show, but a serious, top performer shouldn't be going along with it. It's the same way I feel about intergender matches - they should last 20 seconds with the guy turning her inside out with a massive clothesline. Unless the size difference goes the other way (e.g. Spike Dudley vs Awesome Kong). That probably makes me a hypocrite, or worse, and if that's the case, I'm OK with it. 

Bray's original incarnation was not my cup of tea, but I understand that people were losing their (expletive deleted) over him. To me, it was interminable Ultimate Warrior-like promos and goofy stuff, but it got over. I actually enjoyed the Firefly Funhouse stuff over his Fiend character. But again, it got over. For the most part, I just fast forwarded through his stuff. And while I agree that it's better to like things than not like things, as long as people are respectful I think it's great to hear other perspectives. For example, people sold me on the fact that Bray singlehandedly moved the storyline with Undertaker along. I went back and watched, and while I still wasn't thrilled, I can give the man his flowers on that. Otherwise, it may be kind of boring to just either agree on everything, or only talk about things we like. (How many people talk about things they dislike and use it as a platform to say what they would do differently?) What is odd are those people who find *nothing* they like, but continue to watch the show.

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

8 hours ago, aXminster said:

I'd love to see more Joshis on AEW. While I don't follow it at all, that was the plan for the women's division from the start and covid ruined it. That's why I'm really excited to watch Mariah May wrestle, since she was on Stardom and that has been a highly-regarded promotion for some time (and I tried but couldn't get into it).

AEW would do really well to split the Women's division into weight classes.

A cruiserweight division with mostly higher-workrate, Joshi talent would really set the pace for the show. Kind of like how Cruiserweights got the crowd hyped up in WCW.

8 hours ago, aXminster said:

Abadon is a terrible gimmick. It's like ECW's Zombie. Feels like something that would fit with the Dungeon of Doom. Just cringe and lame.

Just like when Statlander pretended to be an alien and touched people's noses for some reason. No point in having that type of character in 2023/24.

 

7 hours ago, CQI13 said:

Or people going along with/selling for Orange Cassidy, yet here we are.

I think people dislike how Orange Cassidy and Abadon are pushed and not because they are bad.

Right now, fans seem to really resent both being put into the title picture.

Orange Cassidy's first AEW run was really good. His match with Jericho told a really good story of a guy forced out of his comfort zone. Orange's character hasn't evolved much since that match.

He's also been way overbooked on Television, consistently opening the show with an International Title match for months. I think the best thing for him would be to take a few months off.

Maybe work under a mask in CMLL for a while?

Abadon was presented as a jobber for a long time in AEW. They would get booked for a few matches around Halloween each year and usually not rack up many wins. Now, without character development, AEW wants to push Abadon as a title challenger.

With better presentation, I think both characters could again be successful.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Anyone who thinks OC didn't evolve during his first International title run was not paying attention. Yeah, at the beginning he was his usual "Whatever" But as the run went on, he got more and more battered. His biggest moves stopped being reliable. He clung to the belt with a fury unimaginable for the guy who originally won it. Seriously, he was getting his ass handed to him in every match at the end, yet somehow finding a way. Until he ran into Mox, who took everything he had and left him bloody, beaten, and utterly defeated. Mr "Whatever" had shown, rather dramatically, that he actually cared about being champion. Before he may have fought for the honor of a friend or to defend himself, but this? This was new.

 

Out of kayfabe, I think that run was so long because Orange is both well respected in the locker room and can be consistently be relied upon to put on a good to great match with literally anyone. Plus he always seems to be over with the live crowd, so his music hitting is a guaranteed pop. I don't think he should be world champion. Not a good spot for him. But as a reliable upper midcard presence I do think he just works. This is a guy who has an intimate understanding of both in ring and out of ring psychology. Dismissing him as a overpushed comedy wrestler is doing him a grave disservice, because he can flat out go when the situation calls for it. He and Darby are easily AEW's top sellers. Kids love him. I could go on, but you get it. I mean, no less than Kurt Angle and Eddie Guerrero had comedic periods and I don't remember them getting half as much criticism. Granted, they'd already "proven" they could be serious wrestlers who wrestled seriously before, so maybe that's it. All OC has is having been Fire Ant, which isn't quite the same thing, heh.

[SanX]

On 12/8/2023 at 4:12 AM, Matt_Black said:

Yeah, AEW in general has gotten predictable with their booking, and it's become very apparent in the tournament. One of the things that really distinguished AEW from WWE in that first year is that there would be legitimate surprises. Like, when they announced Cody Rhodes vs. Darby Allin for their second show. "Let's see- the executive Vice President, or the indy guy I've never heard of? I wonder who's going to win that...?" And then, Darby wound up taking Cody to a draw, and fans were all "Whaaaaa...?"

Early AEW had a sense of cohesiveness in their weekly shows and storytelling, and they lost it around the time Tony went shopping and began the era of surprise appearances. I absolutely adore those early days.

[Matt_Black]

3 hours ago, SanX said:

Early AEW had a sense of cohesiveness in their weekly shows and storytelling, and they lost it around the time Tony went shopping and began the era of surprise appearances. I absolutely adore those early days.

Though not without it's flaws. While we criticize how they handle the women's division now (and there's a LOT to criticize), at least the division reliably gets one match per show. That's not something that can be said about AEW during the first year.

[milamber]

- Eddie vs Claudio was great.

- Willow vs Martinez was good. Stat!

- Wardlow vs Mack was solid.

- Kenny vs Ethan was good.

- Strong Julia promo. Miro with that 60s mindset.

- Penta & Kommander vs Former JAS was good. Big pop for the Canadians.

- Danielson vs Andrade was my MOTN. Huge win for Andrade.

[milamber]

- Joe! Joe! Joe! Feels like the Devil has to be revealed at World's End.

- Hangman vs Roddy was good.

- Brody vs Andrade was good.

- Golden Jets should put over Ricky & Bill then break up.

- Soho vs Riho was good. Bonus Timeless Toni on commentary.

- Rush vs Lethal was solid.

- White vs Briscoe was solid.

- Swerve vs Mox was my MOTN. "Mox fails under big pressure" was a stupid sign. Cry me a river, Hangman.

[Matt_Black]

Toni Storm is quickly reaching Britt Baker levels of "ENOUGH already." I think there were more camera shots of her than the actual match transpiring. At least with Britt, there was a clear end goal to look forward to- Thunder Rosa. With Toni, it feels like AEW just said, "Eh, let's put the belt on her, we'll figure out something later."

[Jaysin]

Playing catch up and man, the pop Menard and Parker got on Collision was awesome. 

[aXminster]

Last night's show was pretty good. The only low point was that Omega/Jericho segment. Everything was so awkward, Omega was stumbling on his words, the timing between them was off. I love Jericho, he's the GOAT in my opinion, but a break is heavily needed. And seeing Omega stuck in a tag team again makes me so mad. I'd rather see him in a trios if he can't work singles matches.

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

8 hours ago, Matt_Black said:

Toni Storm is quickly reaching Britt Baker levels of "ENOUGH already." I think there were more camera shots of her than the actual match transpiring. At least with Britt, there was a clear end goal to look forward to- Thunder Rosa. With Toni, it feels like AEW just said, "Eh, let's put the belt on her, we'll figure out something later."

Her gimmick was pretty good before AEW went way too far with it. Now she's got go-away heat.

I think the fans don't accept Toni Storm with that gimmick as a main eventer, but she could be a good midcard heel with the timeless gimmick.

Edited December 15, 2023 by ColdBloodedSausageMaker

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

2 hours ago, aXminster said:

Last night's show was pretty good. The only low point was that Omega/Jericho segment. Everything was so awkward, Omega was stumbling on his words, the timing between them was off. I love Jericho, he's the GOAT in my opinion, but a break is heavily needed. And seeing Omega stuck in a tag team again makes me so mad. I'd rather see him in a trios if he can't work singles matches.

The fans definitely perceive Jericho as selfish performer now. Whether or not that's accurate, Jericho needs some time off until the heat on him dies down.