Iron Clad Written Non-Exclusive Contracts

[JMPunk]

Reading through all this, it sounds like it would be easier if the company that has the “exclusive” rights to a talent should have control of all contracts that talent has and dictate who they work for and when. That way it would make more sense for say AEW who allows some of their talent to work for New Japan and AAA. And avoids other companies from stealing the talent. It could be reworded as “Allowed To Work For” over one of the contract types.

[The Otter]

Reading through all this, it sounds like it would be easier if the company that has the “exclusive” rights to a talent should have control of all contracts that talent has and dictate who they work for and when. That way it would make more sense for say AEW who allows some of their talent to work for New Japan and AAA. And avoids other companies from stealing the talent. It could be reworded as “Allowed To Work For” over one of the contract types.

 

I like that, could even be an option within the company relationships tool, where works are allowed to sign handshake deals with those companies

[20LEgend]

<p>I originally posted this as a bug, but with it being moved here I'm wondering what any one else thinks of this?</p><p> </p><p>

I feel like someone who has signed an iron-clad non-exclusive written contract should be unable to sign an exclusive contract during that time, as they have agreed by signing an iron clad non exclusive "I won't be exclusive to anyone for the duration of this contract". It doesn't make sense to me as it is, so I'm hoping it can be changed. This thread seemed 50/50 on it though, so I'm not sure it will be.</p>

[Thomnipotent]

<p>Ironclad only means the worker can't abruptly walk out of your company.</p><p> </p><p>

The in-game handbook says exactly this.</p>

[Thiago Oder Nichts]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="20LEgend" data-cite="20LEgend" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="49761" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I originally posted this as a bug, but with it being moved here I'm wondering what any one else thinks of this?<p> </p><p> I feel like someone who has signed an iron-clad non-exclusive written contract should be unable to sign an exclusive contract during that time, as they have agreed by signing an iron clad non exclusive "I won't be exclusive to anyone for the duration of this contract". It doesn't make sense to me as it is, so I'm hoping it can be changed. This thread seemed 50/50 on it though, so I'm not sure it will be.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> There was an update that made companies less likely to signed someone who was on a written deal, my long term sims have shown that people on non-exclusive contracts don’t get signed by companies on exclusive deals anymore, sadly they don’t seem to get signed by people on handshake deals either though</p>

[tryker2710]

Exclusive written contracts mean that a worker cannot sign with another company, but if they have an iron clad agreement with another company they are obligated to work for the duration of the contract.

 

Exclusivity is with regards to signing rights and not working rights

[20LEgend]

Ironclad only means the worker can't abruptly walk out of your company.

 

The in-game handbook says exactly this.

I'm now aware of that, hence the suggestion. I'd like to see a change to the contract system so that exclusive deals can't be signed by someone who is bound to a non-exclusive deal.

 

I'd like it to be seen as, by iron-cladding a contract with a company, they have agreed to be "non-exclusive" for the length of the contract. My suggestion is that iron-cladding should mean they're not able to sign exclusive to anybody during this time.

 

I think a change would better simulate the type of contract I believe this feature was set up for. When a worker signs this type of deal in real life, it means they can't sign exclusive deals elsewhere during the course of that contract. AEW/ROH/Impact all use these types of contracts in reality, and I don't think WWE should be able to offer exclusive deals to anybody on these contracts at any point in the save.

There was an update that made companies less likely to signed someone who was on a written deal, my long term sims have shown that people on non-exclusive contracts don’t get signed by companies on exclusive deals anymore, sadly they don’t seem to get signed by people on handshake deals either though

I saw this in the patch notes, and wondered if it was related. I find it preferable, but hopefully a balance can be found.

Exclusive written contracts mean that a worker cannot sign with another company, but if they have an iron clad agreement with another company they are obligated to work for the duration of the contract.

 

Exclusivity is with regards to signing rights and not working rights

This is a good explanation, however the point now this thread has been moved to suggestions is that I'd like to see this changed.

[LloydCross]

I'd like it to be seen as, by iron-cladding a contract with a company, they have agreed to be "non-exclusive" for the length of the contract. My suggestion is that iron-cladding should mean they're not able to sign exclusive to anybody during this time.

 

But "iron clad" literally doesn't mean that. It means an agreement cannot be broken. Agreeing not to leave a job for some time amount of time has no business preventing you from securing your future beyond that.

 

This actually opens up a nonsensical loop where two companies can prevent each other from ever locking a worker down for no good reason.

Company A: Non-exclusive, iron clad, Year 1-3

Company B: Non-exclusive, iron clad, Year 2-4

 

In Year 3, Company A can only sign a non-exclusive deal so let's say they do it through Year 5. In Year 4, Company B can only sign a non-exclusive deal so let's say they do one through Year 6. And this can continue on forever despite multiple opportunities and conceivably two companies and a worker that want to work out an arrangement. The only way to break the cycle is to deliberately risk losing the worker in an illogical way (either let them leave for a year or sign them to a contract that ends at the same time just because).

 

It's even better if the contracts end less than a month (or whatever the re-negotiation period is) apart. The first to expire will have some number of days where they can negotiate but not an exclusive deal until the negotiation period is reached for the other deal.

[njmcfreak]

This is a rough thread. I had the same problem for about 5 minutes until I realized what I did and now I understand the contracts completely and it makes perfect sense to me.

[Croquemitaine]

This actually opens up a nonsensical loop where two companies can prevent each other from ever locking a worker down for no good reason.

Company A: Non-exclusive, iron clad, Year 1-3

Company B: Non-exclusive, iron clad, Year 2-4

 

How is this nonsensical?

 

- Company A keeps the worker they want.

- Company B keeps the worker they want.

- The worker continues to collect two paycheques (which they're presumably fine with or else they wouldn't have signed any of these deals).

 

Win - win - win.

 

If Company B really wants the worker all to themselves (or if Company A does after this loop has started), they can offer a non-exclusive that ends when the other company's does, then offer an exclusive when the 30-day window opens. Then both companies know the situation and can bid against each other. This benefits the worker, which is how it should be.

 

Allowing a company to "slip in" an exclusive without letting the current employer attempt to outbid is the cheaty exploit.

[20LEgend]

I feel like I should have started a new thread, as without dismissing the above, my suggestion following the discussion in this thread is: implement a new type of contract which reflects the contracts the likes of which Tyler Black had with ROH in 2010, that Tessa Blanchard has now in Impact and like many people have in many promotions around the world have.

 

This is a deal which allows them to work somewhere other than their "primary employer", but blocks them from negotiating with other promotions who would look to sign them on an exclusive deal until the usual last 28 days. This would more accurately reflect these real world deals. I'm not 100% sure how it would work, but I want to block WWE from being able to sign Jon Moxley (as an example of somebody who they could sign if his contracts were correctly set up in a mod) on day one. Moxley would have deals with New Japan & AEW, so if I played as WWE, I would be able to sign him to an exclusive written at any time. Likewise Pac, Jericho and others would all be signable on day 1. I'd like this not to be possible

[SirMichaelJordan]

Contract negotiations should probably allow us to make someone exclusive with some exceptions like being able to work for another company below a certain size and different regions. Those things would be closer to those ROH and AEW contracts. Iron clan and written / non exclusive isn’t really replicating that.

[20LEgend]

Contract negotiations should probably allow us to make someone exclusive with some exceptions like being able to work for another company below a certain size and different regions. Those things would be closer to those ROH and AEW contracts. Iron clan and written / non exclusive isn’t really replicating that.

Yeah I think something like this would be ideal.

[The Otter]

I feel like I should have started a new thread, as without dismissing the above, my suggestion following the discussion in this thread is: implement a new type of contract which reflects the contracts the likes of which Tyler Black had with ROH in 2010, that Tessa Blanchard has now in Impact and like many people have in many promotions around the world have.

 

This is a deal which allows them to work somewhere other than their "primary employer", but blocks them from negotiating with other promotions who would look to sign them on an exclusive deal until the usual last 28 days. This would more accurately reflect these real world deals. I'm not 100% sure how it would work, but I want to block WWE from being able to sign Jon Moxley (as an example of somebody who they could sign if his contracts were correctly set up in a mod) on day one. Moxley would have deals with New Japan & AEW, so if I played as WWE, I would be able to sign him to an exclusive written at any time. Likewise Pac, Jericho and others would all be signable on day 1. I'd like this not to be possible

 

I think ideally within the current constructs of the game. An employee only being able to sign 1 written deal would be the perfect way to simulate these types of contracts. Iron Clad would mean they have to work to the end of the deal, exclusive would mean they don’t sign any other deal, but a non exclusive written deal would see then able to earn extra money in handshake deals. Simulating the types of deals Moxley and Jericho have, where they go work in NJPW would be hard without Touring contracts being a thing anymore. Bringing them back and adding them into this system would literally be the perfect end goal, as you’d get workers on none exclusive deals being able to go to Japan for a tour and working shows that don’t clash with your own

[SirMichaelJordan]

And isn’t there a hiring rule to only allow a company to sign free agents? That would stop WWE from signing people on non exclusive written. So yeah the mod is probably not set up that way.

 

As a user, you can apply those same house rules or enter into a relationship where you can sign away talent.

[The Otter]

And isn’t there a hiring rule to only allow a company to sign free agents? That would stop WWE from signing people on non exclusive written. So yeah the mod is probably not set up that way.

 

If you assigned that to WWE though they would be less competitive in the market. It’s not about finding work arounds. This whole idea is to produce a suggestion to make contracts better than they are currently

[RACZero]

I think the system now works perfectly, it simulates real life contracts as it should.

The purpose of an Iron-Clad is to guarantee the fulfillment of a contract.

In wrestling, you don't hire a worker as an employee, you hire their services, it is a B2B deal so it makes even less sense to limit written deals than if they were employees.

[20LEgend]

I think the system now works perfectly, it simulates real life contracts as it should.

But it doesn't simulate a lot of contracts in ROH, or Impact and some in AEW. In reality, these workers are not exclusive to those promotions, but can't go and sign with WWE on day one of a save. If I want Zack Sabre Jr. to work with NJPW and RevPro, I have to leave him open to being able to be signed by WWE on day one. If I want Jon Moxley to be able to work New Japan and AEW, I have to leave him open to being signed by WWE on day one.

 

There's a bunch of wrestlers who in reality have contracts that prevent them from signing with certain other others promotion until said contract expires. The system doesn't similate those real life contracts.

 

I don't have the exact answer on how I think this would be implemented, and good points have been made throughout the thread as to why my initial ideas would themselves have flaws. But the suggestion stands, that a significant portion of contracts in a number of real world promotions can't be simulated in this system.

[SirMichaelJordan]

I think ideally within the current constructs of the game. An employee only being able to sign 1 written deal would be the perfect way to simulate these types of contracts. Iron Clad would mean they have to work to the end of the deal, exclusive would mean they don’t sign any other deal, but a non exclusive written deal would see then able to earn extra money in handshake deals. Simulating the types of deals Moxley and Jericho have, where they go work in NJPW would be hard without Touring contracts being a thing anymore. Bringing them back and adding them into this system would literally be the perfect end goal, as you’d get workers on none exclusive deals being able to go to Japan for a tour and working shows that don’t clash with your own

 

Written deals only guarantees the worker pay and the employer legal paper work so workers can’t just walk out. Not seeing why we should limit workers to only sign 1 at a time. Written deals doesn’t mean exclusive like in the past.

 

This also doesn’t stop someone from just signing workers on handshake deals. With WWE i can just sign AEW’s worker’s on handshake deals.

 

AEW’s roster have exclusive contracts with some stipulations. This isn’t replicated in the current game. Instead of switching how some contracts work realistically, more options need to be added.

[The Otter]

Written deals only guarantees the worker pay and the employer legal paper work so workers can’t just walk out. Not seeing why we should limit workers to only sign 1 at a time. Written deals doesn’t mean exclusive like in the past.

 

This also doesn’t stop someone from just signing workers on handshake deals. With WWE i can just sign AEW’s worker’s on handshake deals.

 

AEW’s roster have exclusive contracts with some stipulations. This isn’t replicated in the current game. Instead of switching how some contracts work realistically, more options need to be added.

 

Aye i'm fully aware of this, what i'm currently trying to do is make suggestions to make the contracts closer to a real life situation within the current construction of the game. With how i've suggested things, it would be very easy for the player to game the system and just sign people to handshake deals yes, but id argue that for anyone doing so, these contracts aren't an issue in the first place. The idea is to create a set of rules, or contracts to stop the AI doing it, as currently bigger companies like WWE in some mods, are reluctant to sign people to to handshake deals.

[SirMichaelJordan]

If you assigned that to WWE though they would be less competitive in the market. It’s not about finding work arounds. This whole idea is to produce a suggestion to make contracts better than they are currently

 

It’s not a workaround, it’s literally in the game for this purpose. Being that the AI aggressiveness was toned down because people weren’t using tools to prevent bigger companies from signing everyone, I am not surprised that it would make WWE less competitive.

[The Otter]

It’s not a workaround, it’s literally in the game for this purpose. Being that the AI aggressiveness was toned down because people weren’t using tools to prevent bigger companies from signing everyone, I am not surprised that it would make WWE less competitive.

 

You shouldn’t need to force big companies to only sign free agents to make the contract situation more realistic. That would prevent bidding wars for employees reaching the end of their contract, and would mean a worker would never be signed away from you as you’d just renew their contract. I’m not even sure how you’re trying to present this argument anymore.

 

You’re fully entitled to your opinion, and I think at this point I’ll just leave it as that before this gets clogged up with two totally different opinions just going back and forth

[LloydCross]

How is this nonsensical?

 

- Company A keeps the worker they want.

- Company B keeps the worker they want.

- The worker continues to collect two paycheques (which they're presumably fine with or else they wouldn't have signed any of these deals).

 

Win - win - win.

 

If Company B really wants the worker all to themselves (or if Company A does after this loop has started), they can offer a non-exclusive that ends when the other company's does, then offer an exclusive when the 30-day window opens. Then both companies know the situation and can bid against each other. This benefits the worker, which is how it should be.

 

Allowing a company to "slip in" an exclusive without letting the current employer attempt to outbid is the cheaty exploit.

 

It's only win-win-win if the exclusive deal wouldn't have yielded more money (than one contract) with less travel and less wear and tear. When the worker gets hurt doing double duty, it'll be a lose-lose-lose.

 

And for that company B strategy, they have to end the contract on the exact same day (or at least really close). If one deal started in February and the other in May I'm pretty sure that's going to involve a series of weird 1 month deals and then still line up weird.

 

I'm not saying there aren't more contract options that might make things more interesting, but making "iron-clad" mean a thing that it straight up doesn't mean isn't going to improve things.

[SirMichaelJordan]

You shouldn’t need to force big companies to only sign free agents to make the contract situation more realistic. That would prevent bidding wars for employees reaching the end of their contract, and would mean a worker would never be signed away from you as you’d just renew their contract. I’m not even sure how you’re trying to present this argument anymore.

 

You’re fully entitled to your opinion, and I think at this point I’ll just leave it as that before this gets clogged up with two totally different opinions just going back and forth

As far as I can remember, workers contract coming to an end are considered free agents in the game.

 

Atleast in TEW16, this rule only applied to workers currently employed on PPA deals.

 

WWE only ever hires people coming off of their contracts.

[The Otter]

As far as I can remember, workers contract coming to an end are considered free agents in the game.

 

Atleast in TEW16, this rule only applied to workers currently employed on PPA deals.

 

WWE only ever hires people coming off of their contracts.

 

If this is indeed the case, and the ‘only signs free agents’ Means companies would only try to sign people who are in the final month of their contracts, and/or people who are one PPA deals, then the changes that have actually been made should be reversed imo, as this would properly simulate what has been requested. My assumption of this rule was literally that a company could only sign people who currently had no contract at all.

 

Just been and checked out this hiring rule in the editor and it’s listed as ‘must be unemployed’ which I assume would stop companies hiring people on Handshake deals as well