tryker2710 Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 I've run a save in Effganic's organic mod for 18 in-game years now and I'm noticing that the game just isn't generating workers with certain attributes. This probably isn't a bug but I feel like the attribute system should be a bit more dynamic than this. After 18 years there are no workers with the attributes: Tag Team Specialist, Explosive Ring Style, Slow and Steady, Easily Marketable OR Unmarketable. While I understand these things would be rare, the fact that none of the over 1200 generated workers currently in the save have any of these attributes seem really far off reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 I've run a save in Effganic's organic mod for 18 in-game years now and I'm noticing that the game just isn't generating workers with certain attributes. This probably isn't a bug but I feel like the attribute system should be a bit more dynamic than this. After 18 years there are no workers with the attributes: Tag Team Specialist, Explosive Ring Style, Slow and Steady, Easily Marketable OR Unmarketable. While I understand these things would be rare, the fact that none of the over 1200 generated workers currently in the save have any of these attributes seem really far off reality. Great testing! I haven't gone that far yet but I've definitely noticed that attributes like that are few and far between; I'd love to see the number of them dialled up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tryker2710 Posted May 21, 2020 Author Share Posted May 21, 2020 Great testing! I haven't gone that far yet but I've definitely noticed that attributes like that are few and far between; I'd love to see the number of them dialled up. I wasnt even really testing, just casually decides to do a search by attribute and noticed how barren things are. Those 5 are just the ones I searched for cos they seemed very distinct and the kind of thing that couldn't be hidden, I'm sure there are others that haven't popped up at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwe9112 Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 I second this motion. I've noticed it too but on a lower scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donners Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 Thank you for spotting this. I just ran a watcher game with the Effganic Genesis mod, which has only a couple of dozen workers in the db. After twelve years, there are 246 workers (going by the power 500 - is there an easier way to find the worker count?). Two generated workers have the Tag Team Specialist attribute, so it is possible, but I don't see any of the others you mention. Happy to do a much longer-term sim if that's of any assistance. Sidenote - the Tag Team Specialists...aren't part of tag teams and don't do tag matches. That might be a quirk of the mod, but there are plenty of generated tag teams around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LloydCross Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 I've run a save in Effganic's organic mod for 18 in-game years now and I'm noticing that the game just isn't generating workers with certain attributes. This probably isn't a bug but I feel like the attribute system should be a bit more dynamic than this. After 18 years there are no workers with the attributes: Tag Team Specialist, Explosive Ring Style, Slow and Steady, Easily Marketable OR Unmarketable. While I understand these things would be rare, the fact that none of the over 1200 generated workers currently in the save have any of these attributes seem really far off reality. Hmm...I've definitely seen a randomly generated Tag Team Specialist in the C-verse and I think one of the marketing ones too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tryker2710 Posted May 22, 2020 Author Share Posted May 22, 2020 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="LloydCross" data-cite="LloydCross" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50018" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Hmm...I've definitely seen a randomly generated Tag Team Specialist in the C-verse and I think one of the marketing ones too.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I can only make suggestions based on the data I have, which is 1200 workers over 18 years and certain attributes havent appeared at all, which is low. Run the cverse for another 15 years and based on my data you may not get another tag specialist or marketable star.</p><p> </p><p> Granted the fact the training facilities arent great is a variable but again, even poor facilities should be able to generate one or two people with these attributes out of 1200</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donners Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 <p>I've now run Effganic's mod for 22 years. Some random searches:</p><p> </p><p> Unmarketable: 0</p><p> Easily marketable: 0</p><p> A Marketing Dream: 0</p><p> Smoker: 29</p><p> Former Smoker: 0</p><p> Drinker: 1</p><p> Heavy Drinker: 0</p><p> Former Drinker: 0</p><p> Squash Master: 1</p><p> Bodybuilder: 0</p><p> Skinny Genes: 0</p><p> Fat Genes: 0</p><p> Stuntman: 2</p><p> No Stunts: 0</p><p> Loyal: 0</p><p> Itchy Feet: 0</p><p> Wrestling in the Blood: 0</p><p> Outside Interests: 0</p><p> Modelling Experience: 0</p><p> Fitness Fanatic: 0</p><p> Deep Roots: 0</p><p> Homebody: 0</p><p> Straight Edge: 0</p><p> Explosive Ring Style: 0</p><p> Giving Performer: 4</p><p> Selfish Performer: 3</p><p> Tag Team Specialist: 2</p><p> High Pain Threshold: 2</p><p> Deathmatch Wrestler: 8</p><p> Risk Taker: 0</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tryker2710 Posted May 23, 2020 Author Share Posted May 23, 2020 More data on this is always good! Again important to note the facilities in the effverse mod are pretty poop to start and I'm sure that effects attribute generation but as I've said before this seems <strong>extremely</strong> low even with that in mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MainOffender Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Good info here, thanks for testing! Curious about a few things: Have the training levels of any of the schools gone up? Looking at the data, I think they're all set to start at 25%. Have you tried running a similar test with the training levels set higher? Wonder what the spread of attributes would look like at 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donners Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Have the training levels of any of the schools gone up? Looking at the data, I think they're all set to start at 25%. Nope, all still stuck at 25% as of 1944. That's perhaps another issue - there should be some movement in that respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donners Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="MainOffender" data-cite="MainOffender" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50018" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> </p><p> Have you tried running a similar test with the training levels set higher? Wonder what the spread of attributes would look like at 100%.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Okay, I've given it a go with training set to 100% for all of the dojos.</p><p> </p><p> After 12 years, with at least 250 workers (using the same attributes, for consistency):</p><p> </p><p> Unmarketable: 0</p><p> Easily marketable: 0</p><p> A Marketing Dream: 0</p><p> Smoker: 41!</p><p> Former Smoker: 0</p><p> Drinker: 0</p><p> Heavy Drinker: 0</p><p> Former Drinker: 0</p><p> Squash Master: 0</p><p> Bodybuilder: 0</p><p> Skinny Genes: 0</p><p> Fat Genes: 0</p><p> Stuntman: 0</p><p> No Stunts: 0</p><p> Loyal: 0</p><p> Itchy Feet: 0</p><p> Wrestling in the Blood: 0</p><p> Outside Interests: 0</p><p> Modelling Experience: 0</p><p> Fitness Fanatic: 0</p><p> Deep Roots: 0</p><p> Homebody: 0</p><p> Straight Edge: 0</p><p> Explosive Ring Style: 0</p><p> Giving Performer: 2</p><p> Selfish Performer: 2</p><p> Tag Team Specialist: 1</p><p> High Pain Threshold: 1</p><p> Deathmatch Wrestler: 7</p><p> Risk Taker: 3</p><p> </p><p> It doesn't seem to have any effect.</p><p> </p><p> At least this time the tag specialist did some tag matches, albeit only with random partners.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek B Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 For the science here, are you using the cheat code "allseeingi" to make sure you can see all attributes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 For the science here, are you using the cheat code "allseeingi" to make sure you can see all attributes? Just as a heads-up, I've done similar stuff via MDB files, so can see hidden attributes, and the number of them are still staggeringly low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek B Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Just as a heads-up, I've done similar stuff via MDB files, so can see hidden attributes, and the number of them are still staggeringly low. Awesome. I'm a big fan of having more attributes generated, I'm just making sure all the tests are accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donners Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 For the science here, are you using the cheat code "allseeingi" to make sure you can see all attributes? Ah, good point. Let's redo this. Unmarketable: still 0 Easily marketable: 0 to 2 A Marketing Dream: 0 to 3 Smoker: still 41 Former Smoker: still 0 Drinker: 0 to 22 (why are they all hidden?) Heavy Drinker: 0 to 9 Former Drinker: still 0 Squash Master: 0 to 1 Bodybuilder: still 0 Skinny Genes: still 0 Fat Genes: 0 to 1 Stuntman: still 0 No Stunts: still 0 Loyal: still 0 Itchy Feet: still 0 Wrestling in the Blood: still 0 Outside Interests: 0 to 1 Modelling Experience: 0 to 2 (I might have missed that one on the previous attempt) Fitness Fanatic: still 0 Deep Roots: still 0 Homebody: 0 to 1 Straight Edge: 0 to 1 Explosive Ring Style: 0 to 1 Giving Performer: 2 to 3 Selfish Performer: 2 to 3 Tag Team Specialist: 1 High Pain Threshold: still 1 Deathmatch Wrestler: still 7 Risk Taker: still 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tryker2710 Posted May 23, 2020 Author Share Posted May 23, 2020 I think this reveals another issue with the attribute system which is that certain attributes shouldn't be able to be hidden. Why would a worker have a secret modeling career, or how would they even? How could somebody be secretly "easily marketable"? When marketability is usually based around looks and general demeanour which are, like star quality, fairly obvious at a glance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 My own Effganic data - 1106 characters generated between March 1920 and Jan 1930 (not including characters included in the mod as YTD workers) Everyone obviously has a personality; there are tons of "Can't play xxx well" or "Plays xxx" well, in addition to the various babyface/heel ones. There's also a significant amount of substance users, at various levels. After getting rid of those, we're left with the following: Apolitical - 1 Born Fighter - 3 Creative - 2 Daredevil - 5 Deathmatch wrestler - 11 Dynamo - 5 Easy to do Business With - 2 Fame Hungry - 2 Fearless - 3 Former Pro Martial Artist - 1 Giving Performer - 5 Gymnastic Background - 1 Has A Temper - 3 High Pain Threshold - 2 Highly Moral - 2 Horndog - 1 In a Funk - 4 Keeps Kayfabe - 1 Midas Touch - 6 MMA Fighter - 4 Money Motivated - 3 Motormouth - 5 Musician - 1 Natural Trainer - 5 Notorious Ribber - 6 Often In Trouble - 2 Passes On Knowledge - 8 Personal Issues - 1 Political Player - 1 Positive Outlook - 8 Risk Taker - 2 Selfish Performer - 5 Squash Master - 1 Story Teller - 5 Stuntman - 4 Tag Team Specialist - 1 Will Risk Injury - 13 The following don't appear at all A Marketing Dream/Nightmare Age Is Just A Number Ahead Of Their Time Anti-Hardcore Badass Reputation Bodybuilder Business Mindset Canny Operator Can't Fight Time Career Woman Chequered Past Creative Dynamo Deep Roots Desperado Easily Marketable Explosive Ring Style Extremely Old School Fat/Skinny Genes Fitness Fanatic Future Anything Gymnastic Background Healing Factor History of Concussions Homebody Hot New Catchphrase/Move Itchy Feet Loves The Business Masked For Life Modelling Experience No Stunts Outside Interests Scatterbrained Slow and Steady Troublesome Knee Very Creative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tryker2710 Posted May 23, 2020 Author Share Posted May 23, 2020 Simulating until August 1940 (1332 active wrestlers) this is what I got, leaving out gimmick stuff, basic personalities, future staff and attributes a worker can gain and lose and doesn't debut with. Keeping in mind that some workers have more than one attribute that only appears once, I think there should be a bit of a boost to attributes appearing. Highly Moral - 3 (1 worker has highly moral and deathmatch wrestler) Prudish - 0 Horndog - 2 Unfaithful - 1 Creative Dynamo - 1 Very Creative - 0 Creative - 2 Chequered Past - 0 Often in Trouble - 6 Most Wanted - 2 Passes on knowledge - >10 Unaproachable - 1 Highly Strung - 4 Positive Outlook - 7 Thin skinned - 8 Notorious Ribber - 3 Anti-Hardcore - 1 Keeps Kayfabe - 0 (In 1940?) Extremely Old School - 0 Money motivated - 4 Loves the business - 3 Fame Hungry - 7 Has a temper - 1 Born fighter - 4 Bad ass rep - 0 Motormouth - 2 Story Teller - >10 Apolitical - 1 Easy to do business with - 2 Business minded - 4 Political plater - 1 Comedy Match worker - 2 Daredevil - 5 Fearless - 0 Risk Taker - 4 Stuntman - 5 No Stunts - 0 Deathmatch wrestler - >10 Will Risk injury - >10 High pain threshold - 7 Canny Operator - 8 Dynamo - 3 Tag team specialist - 1 Selfish performer - 5 Giving performer - 4 Explosive Ring style - 0 Slow and steady - 0 Squash master - 0 Scatterbrained - 0 Straight Edge - 1 Marketing nightmare - 0 Unmarketable - 0 Easily marketable - 0 Marketing dream - 0 Stud Athlete - 0 Gymnastic background - 1 Natural trainer - 4 Desperado - 4 Healing Factor - 0 Career woman - 0 No pregnancies - 0 Prodigy - 1 Not a natural - 0 Age just a number - 0 Can't fight time - 0 Ahead of their time - 0 Homebody - 0 world traveller - 0 Deep roots - 0 fitness fanatic - 0 Bodybuilder - 0 Skinny genes - 0 fat genes - 0 Masked for life - 0 Troublesome bodyparts - 0 (Grouped for ease) History of concussions - >10 Loyal - 0 Itchy feet - 0 Wrestling in blood - 0 Outside interests - 0 Modelling experience - 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donners Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Looks like this is addressed in 1.06; guess we’ll have to start over! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 987 characters generated in 10 years of an Effganic game run mainly on 1.06 then 1.07. As before, everyone obviously has a personality; there are tons of "Can't play xxx well" or "Plays xxx" well, in addition to the various babyface/heel ones. There's also a significant amount of substance users, at various levels. After getting rid of those, we're left with the following: Canny Operator 2 Daredevil 8 Deathmatch Wrestler 13 Desperado 2 Dynamo 7 Fame Hungry 5 Fearless 3 Former Boxer 2 Giving Performer 6 Gymnastic Background 1 Healing Factor 1 High Pain Threshold 1 Highly Moral 4 Highly Strung 5 Horndog 3 In A Funk 1 Itchy Feet 5 Keeps Kayfabe 1 Loves The Business 7 Midas Touch 7 MMA Fighter 1 Money Motivated 5 Most Wanted 1 Motormouth 2 Musician 1 Natural Trainer 6 Notorious Ribber 4 Often In Trouble 10 Passes on Knowledge 6 Personal Issues 1 Positive Outlook 5 Risk Taker 9 Selfish Performer 6 Story Teller 9 Straight Edge 5 Stuntman 1 Tag Team Specialist 3 Unapproachable 2 Unfaithful 1 Very Creative 1 Will Risk Injury 9 None of the following appear A Marketing Dream/Nightmare Age Is Just A Number Ahead Of Their Time Anti-Hardcore Apolitical Badass Reputation Bodybuilder Born Fighter Business Mindset Can't Fight Time Career Woman Chequered Past Creative Creative Dynamo Deep Roots Desperado Easily Marketable Easy to do Business With Explosive Ring Style Extremely Old School Fat/Skinny Genes Fitness Fanatic Has A Temper Homebody Hot New Catchphrase/Move Masked For Life Modelling Experience No Stunts Outside Interests Political Player Scatterbrained Slow and Steady Squash Master Troublesome Knee Would still really love to see the number of attributes given out to newgens boosted; it would definitely make characters more unique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donners Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 I'm noticing (on 1.11) a number of newgens are appearing without any attributes at all - just a personality. This is with allseeingi, so there's nothing hidden. They're just a blank slate. That might not be such an issue if a good number of attributes developed over the course of the game, but there don't seem to be many. Plenty of zeros on an attribute search after 20 years in Effganic, most of them on Jaded's list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddevil95 Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 Any update? I think this is still a problem. Is there a solution for more attributes for generated wrestlers. Maybe a cheatcode or in the era? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddyGarner Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 I think this reveals another issue with the attribute system which is that certain attributes shouldn't be able to be hidden. Why would a worker have a secret modeling career, or how would they even? How could somebody be secretly "easily marketable"? When marketability is usually based around looks and general demeanour which are, like star quality, fairly obvious at a glance Depends what kind of modeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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