Women retiring very young regardless of skills

[tryker2710]

I've noticed that women in tew2020 are retiring anywhere from 37 onwards whereas most men are wrestling well into their 40s before retiring from the ring.

 

One particular example is I was running a RWC game and Kaori Yoneyama (Death Yama-San in Stardom) retired at 39 despite seemingly not being in decline at all, she seemed to be gaining skill points for the whole year and wasnt even dropping in athleticism or consistency which seem to be the first to drop off. Also Maria Kanellis retired at 38 in what seems like very moderate decline.

 

I understand that for one reason or another women in real life have tended to retire earlier, but if you look at the likes of Asuka who is pushing 40 and showing no signs of retiring from the ring soon and a few other real life examples it seems very strange that it is the way it is. (Before you ask, neither of them had any body part with less than 70s condition)

 

Just wondering if others have notice this trend or if its just observer bias on my part

[Jama7301]

I've noticed it too, but I think it's working more as intended. Women do tend to retire earlier than men. While some in reality are working longer, like Asuka and LuFisto, they're still uncommon compared to those who call it quits sooner.

[tryker2710]

I've noticed it too, but I think it's working more as intended. Women do tend to retire earlier than men. While some in reality are working longer, like Asuka and LuFisto, they're still uncommon compared to those who call it quits sooner.

 

I'm going to argue though that women retiring earlier in wrestling is more of a systemic thing than just "women retire earlier". Like Madison Rayne retired at 37 in this save (and Nyla Rose at 40) which is one of the youngest somebody can even begin decline. The game should base retirement on decline and work rather than the "women retire earlier" argument, especially as women's work in the industry becomes more respected in the industry we'll be seeing many more veterans working into their 40s.

[Blake Trask]

It is realistic, but in the context of the cverse, which lacks a deep women's scene, especially unemployed, it rapidly thins the talent pool.

 

I think it might be a nice concession to like... gameplay enjoyment versus pure realism to tweak those numbers a bit more favourably.

[tryker2710]

It is realistic, but in the context of the cverse, which lacks a deep women's scene, especially unemployed, it rapidly thins the talent pool.

 

I think it might be a nice concession to like... gameplay enjoyment versus pure realism to tweak those numbers a bit more favourably.

 

I would always argue gameplay over flavour if you can't make turn the flavour into good gameplay. All three c-verse saves I've started and played through a few months in has seen all of the unemployed AAA veterans retire within 3-6 months, maybe a few stragglers last 12.

[Makhai]

I've noticed it too, but I think it's working more as intended. Women do tend to retire earlier than men. While some in reality are working longer, like Asuka and LuFisto, they're still uncommon compared to those who call it quits sooner.

 

Joshi's are going well into their 50s. But I'd argue that this is up to the modder to properly use the "Age is just a Number" trait and "Wrestling In The Blood" trait to properly simulate these folks. At least they're not retiring at 28 like they did in 2016.

[Remianen]

TEW has always been like this. You'll find many posts of me whining about it in the TEW07/08/10 forums.

 

Luckily, we have a way to mitigate that (set the retirement age before starting a save). That's the only way I've found to prevent women from retiring before they actually begin declining.

[Blake Trask]

My personal horror show was in TEW 2010 when Power Girl retired at 25.

 

I mean, it was Power Girl, but still.

[jesseewiak]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Makhai" data-cite="Makhai" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50617" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Joshi's are going well into their 50s. But I'd argue that this is up to the modder to properly use the "Age is just a Number" trait and "Wrestling In The Blood" trait to properly simulate these folks. At least they're not retiring at 28 like they did in 2016.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Some Joshi women retiring relatively young is also relatively common at the same time. The weird truth is in joshi at least, it seems to be there is no in-between. Either you're a lifer who will still be wrestling in front of 100 people at age 55, or you're going to retire at 24 to 26, even if you're on the ascent because you want a family/tired of being injured all the time/etc.</p>

[Blackman]

I personally wouldn't change it and think it's quite realistic now. As Remi says: if you don't like it, there's the option to mass edit it to be "very late". At least in WMMA5 the option is there.

[Derek B]

<p>I think I've written this message for the last couple of TEWs, so time to write it again. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

There is no difference in the code between men and women when it comes to retiring. The factors that go into retirement are the same, which include ; </p><p> </p><p>

Retirement Age</p><p>

Overness</p><p>

Employment</p><p>

Attributes *NEW*</p><p>

Being In Year 1</p><p>

The Cornellverse</p><p> </p><p>

As we all know, workers will retire when they hit their retirement age, which is modelled on a bell curve with the majority of people hitting between about 35 and 42. The full range is 25 to 65, while other age related factors like Maturity ( up to 30), Decline (from 30) and relevancy (from 45) are other factors. So while many ppeople would expect someone to be in decline before they retire, the system is set up deliberately so that people could retire while still very much on the rise. Regardless of gender.</p><p> </p><p>

People who have gained a high degree of overness (and therefore earning potential) will choose to stick around longer because they can make money.</p><p> </p><p>

People who currently have a well paying job will also stick around longer. Someone with a bunch of guaranteed money, working for a major company will stick around longer too.</p><p> </p><p>

One thing that can modify this very deliberately are the new attributes for "Wrestling In The Blood" and "Outside Interests", which will see people either stay longer of leave sooner if you have them set.</p><p> </p><p>

If someone has stuck around beyond their retirement age due to the above factors, the likelihood of them retiring next year will increase a little. So factors for reasons to stay working/making moiney become less important over time. The further someone gets beyond their retirement age, the more likely they are to retire.</p><p> </p><p>

The reason we see so may retirements specifically in year 1 is that there are a bunch of people who could potentially have rolled retirement numbers where they should have retired this year, last year, the year before etc.... with very little time (12 months) for any of those workers to change their base situation that means you will always see more retirements in the first year as the game balances itself out around this.</p><p> </p><p>

And the reason that WOMEN retire so early in the Cornellverse and in real world mods? There are very few women who are over enough for that to be a factor in them sticking around. There are very few older women active in any companies big enough to count as major, so that doesn't stop them retiring. Most people are playing converted mods so attributes won't be used yet to encourage people to stick around long. And so as a result, it often looks like women are retiring younger.... in reality, they just don't have a reason to stick around so they retire at the ages they've hit. And with so many more employment opporunities for men in most mods, they tend to have more reasons to stick around.</p><p> </p><p>

Which brings me back to a last thought... when so many women's workers do retire early, if you have regens on that means a whole generation is about to debut in a year too. And there is a lot off freshly retired talent out there who could make a return through the Talk To Worker feature too if you grow your company. In the Cornellverse that hopefully makes for a lot of potential for a women's revolution. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[tryker2710]

So what you're saying is the fact that women retire earlier is systemic rather than just a matter of them being women? Good to know my original suspicion is correct, although it does feel weird knowing this is the case and seeing how the womens scene in the cverse has shaped up in 2020

[Blackman]

So what you're saying is the fact that women retire earlier is systemic rather than just a matter of them being women? Good to know my original suspicion is correct, although it does feel weird knowing this is the case and seeing how the womens scene in the cverse has shaped up in 2020

 

There might be no coding differences, but there is a slight negative bias towards women because they tend to get pregnant, which will render them inactive for almost a year, which in turn will stall their overness. This overness seems to be the biggest factor (the same thing seems to apply also in WMMA5 btw). If you play as a huge nr1 organisation with a 50/50 sex split, you shouldn't see any difference between men and women in the long term.

[Ghost of Benji]

Women get kids. Women retire younger. This is real life.

[tryker2710]

Women get kids. Women retire younger. This is real life.

 

Apart from the frankly, nonsensical point you're making here (I dont know any countries with a retirement age that has a particularly big difference between men and women in really any field? Especially under capitalism people of all genders are working later and later into their lives.) This isnt real life. It's a video game. The fact that this video game could allow me to buck a match between Lola Bunny and Batman should maybe reveal that it doesnt have to be true to every minute detail of the social conditions of different retirement ages in wrestling based on gender. Especially given the fact that I dont think having children actually effects anybody's decision to retire in the game.

[Ghost of Benji]

Apart from the frankly, nonsensical point you're making here (I dont know any countries with a retirement age that has a particularly big difference between men and women in really any field? Especially under capitalism people of all genders are working later and later into their lives.) This isnt real life. It's a video game. The fact that this video game could allow me to buck a match between Lola Bunny and Batman should maybe reveal that it doesnt have to be true to every minute detail of the social conditions of different retirement ages in wrestling based on gender. Especially given the fact that I dont think having children actually effects anybody's decision to retire in the game.

Women generally retire younger in wrestling.

[Blackman]

Apart from the frankly, nonsensical point you're making here (I dont know any countries with a retirement age that has a particularly big difference between men and women in really any field?

 

I'm sure it's the same in many fields, but that doesn't matter at all. This is sports entertainment management. There is in fact real world data I've seen in the (real) sports world where there is definitely a difference. So he does make sense and does have a point.

 

And I know WWE is a small pool, but come on... You're making this statement while we've just seen Becky Lynch and Rousey 'retire' in the last year. Meanwhile, there's a bunch of men still going to their 50's. But maybe you remember Mae Young (what's in a name ) and think differently. But the fact is they retire younger.

 

Most people like the default game to have a touch of realism. In your "batman"-games, you can simply tweak the retirement setting to your liking in the editor before you start your game. They should stay active until 40+ if the requirements Derek mentioned are met.

[tryker2710]

I'm not arguing that women dont retire younger typically in wrestling. And as Derek has now clarified, the issue is systemic, rather than coded into the game "because they're women" which is what I initially thought but was worried was the case.

 

Theres really no point to continuing arguing this because I'm not disagreeing necessarily, but speaking as a woman, the argument "women retire earlier because they're women and it's just what they do" doesnt sit right with me and I would have voiced a lot of unhappiness with the game if it was the case.

 

I feel like theres no point discussing at this stage because my initial suggestion has been dealt with and my suggestion going forward for Adam would be to make the womens wrestling scene in the default database a bit more alive so all of the unemployed veterans dont retire instantly and maybe expand the joshi scene so theres more than 1 company in Japan using women and more than like 15 free agents

[Ghost of Benji]

Trish and Lita also retired at 30, I believe. Beth Phoenix. Molly Holly, I think. Sure, all of these have made wrestling appearances since, even in the ring, but they definitely stopped their active in ring careers at 30. Not saying there aren't exceptions, but those exceptions surely aren't a rule.

[nerodragomir1]

Women get kids. Women retire younger. This is real life.

 

This is just true. Look at most Joshi's.

 

The women start young & retire young.

 

I can think of like 10 different women that retired in the last year. I don't even follow Joshi as closely as others do.

 

Women will tend to retire young either because they find a man "speculation from me" (Hazuki)

Decide they want to start a family (Yoko Bito)

or retire due to injury's KONAMI, Arisa Hoshiki.

 

Nothing wrong with any of those reasons, but these are legit reasons why women leave.

We don't even know if Becky will be coming back. She could have her baby & then decide that's better than anything else.

 

I hate to make this a gender thing, but women aren't necessarily built for long term wrestling. Their bodies aren't mean't to be beaten on for 15+ years. I'm talking physically here. Men have meat to absorb the blows. Women tend to be very tiny & slim. The body get's banged up & can lead to retirement faster than men. I'm not saying they mentally don't have the same drive, physically they tend to break down quicker than men.

[Big Roguey]

Going to go ahead and lock this now since the original point has been cleared up by Derek.