Smaller Promotions Sorting Workers Improperly

[Nutlaw]

I apologize for posting this in the general forum, as I'm not certain whether or not it fits in as a Suggestion or as a Bug Report. Regardless, I believe that it is a problem that needs to be addressed. Smaller promotions that only operate in one game region rank their workers by popularity throughout the entire country. To begin with, this doesn't seem to make much sense, as a promotion shouldn't care about how popular a worker is in places they will not likely hold shows. Secondly, this substantially holds back players in rookie to legend mode. Allow me to provide an example: My character has been working in NYCW for more than a couple of years now. As he is only popular enough to work in the smaller promotions, he has gained E popularity in the Mid Atlantic, a strong F in the South West, a C- in the South East, and a C in the Tri State area with NYCW. There aren't any other smaller promotions to work for in the country, so he can't yet gain popularity in any other area. Unfortunately, however, all of the other workers in the company save two have considerable popularity in every region of the country. This means that while my character has a C popularity in NYCW's operating region, he is still ranked as the lowest Lower Midcarder in the pushes screen. The other Lower Midcarders have popularities of D and C- in the region. The Midcarders have popularities of D, C-, C-, C-, and C. The Upper Midcarders have popularities of C+, C, and C. This is a problem, as workers are most likely to fight other workers of similar popularity and standing within the company. This means that my character frequently fights Openers, Lower Midcarders, and Midcarders - all but one of whom have lower popularity in the region than him. When fighting workers who are less popular in the region, my worker gets only a modest increase in popularity for a win and loses popularity for a loss. He rarely gets to fight workers with higher popularity, who would give him larger increases in popularity for a win and no popularity loss for a loss. Many other players have complained that the overness increases from fights are too gradual. I would posit that the actual issue arises from improper ranking within smaller promotions that denies a player access to fights against opponents of equal standing.

[FINisher]

Actually that's not the case.. The other wrestlers who are higher up in the card have more overall popular than you. That means they can get people from other regions to the NYCW show, 'cause they're popular in other regions. The single region popularity doesn't really mean a thing, it's the overall popularity.

[Nutlaw]

[QUOTE=FINisher]Actually that's not the case.. The other wrestlers who are higher up in the card have more overall popular than you. That means they can get people from other regions to the NYCW show, 'cause they're popular in other regions. The single region popularity doesn't really mean a thing, it's the overall popularity.[/QUOTE] Uh, some of that was my point. The promotion ranks workers by their overall popularity in the country, but popularity gains are based upon differences in regional popularity. NYCW only runs shows in the Tri State area, as their workers only change popularity in that region after their shows.

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=FINisher]Actually that's not the case.. The other wrestlers who are higher up in the card have more overall popular than you. That means they can get people from other regions to the NYCW show, 'cause they're popular in other regions. The single region popularity doesn't really mean a thing, it's the overall popularity.[/QUOTE] You missed the point rather badly. I agree with Nutlaw. NYCW shouldn't give a flying fart if a person is popular in the North West when they don't do shows in the North West. Their rosters should be sorted by who is most popular where they do run shows (Tri-State, exclusively). And the assertion that the promoters consider a person being somewhat known in another region as a plus doesn't jibe with reality. Most wrestling fans won't go any further than 30-60 mins from their front door to see a wrestling show, and that's for HUGE promotions like WWE. So The Stomper actually thinking someone's going to drive or fly up from Georgia (South East) to see one of his shows is ludicrous and delusional (tell him to put the pipe down). Nutlaw's point is well taken. If that is indeed how the game determines pushes (by average popularity in the country as opposed to just the promotion's region), that's a pretty big flaw IMO and severely harms the workers for smaller promotions.

[Nutlaw]

I hate to be a pest, Adam, but any thoughts on this one? Since most of the other guys in this promotion don't fight in other game regions, their overall popularity in the country can't go down much, and since I'm limited in where I can fight, I can't go up much. Especially since energy in-match seems dependent upon regional popularity, my character is essentially just thrown into a series of squash matches with no real hope of rising beyond Lower Midcard status in this promotion until he slowly builds his 0.1% popularity each squash match and manages to catch on with a National promotion, at which time there would be no point to being an Upper Midcarder or Main Eventer in a place like NYCW.

[Adam Ryland]

Workers are always ranked via their national popularity in all my games. The alternative, of ranking them via the day's venue, would have its own set of problems, the obvious one being that the pushes given to workers would end up changing rapidly and therefore leading to no stability whatsoever amongst the roster. Doing it by national average has problems, but it is the best of the available methods in my opinion.

[Nutlaw]

[QUOTE=Adam Ryland]Workers are always ranked via their national popularity in all my games. The alternative, of ranking them via the day's venue, would have its own set of problems, the obvious one being that the pushes given to workers would end up changing rapidly and therefore leading to no stability whatsoever amongst the roster. Doing it by national average has problems, but it is the best of the available methods in my opinion.[/QUOTE] I fully agree that promotions that are national or larger would not wish to rank their workers based upon where they are holding a show on any particular day. It would lead to instability. Would it be possible to have two systems of ranking, however? One for the larger promotions that move to different regions, and one for the smaller promotions that will only hold shows in one area? Certainly, there wouldn't be much instability within promotions that always reference the same region's popularity ratings. It would help to make at least the early game in Rookie to Legend mode play much more fluidly.

[Derek B]

I'm in agreement with Mr Nutlaw on this one. It seems like any promotion that is regional or smaller should probably be basing their worker pushes on the overness of the workers in their home region. Makes sense really. Any bigger than that and it would make more sense to push them by national overness but for smaller promotions.... well, as I said, I'm in agreement with Nutlaw. Derek B

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=derek_b]I'm in agreement with Mr Nutlaw on this one. It seems like any promotion that is regional or smaller should probably be basing their worker pushes on the overness of the workers in their home region. Makes sense really. Any bigger than that and it would make more sense to push them by national overness but for smaller promotions.... well, as I said, I'm in agreement with Nutlaw. Derek B[/QUOTE] Actually, I think Small would be a better breakpoint. Remember, it's not uncommon for a Regional promotion, by its very nature, to run shows in adjacent areas. Small promotions don't generally do that. But I see what Adam's saying too. Sorting by show location would cause an awful lot of roster shuffling (potentially). I don't see a really fair and equitable compromise to this, sadly.

[Nutlaw]

[QUOTE=Remianen]Actually, I think Small would be a better breakpoint. Remember, it's not uncommon for a Regional promotion, by its very nature, to run shows in adjacent areas. Small promotions don't generally do that. But I see what Adam's saying too. Sorting by show location would cause an awful lot of roster shuffling (potentially). I don't see a really fair and equitable compromise to this, sadly.[/QUOTE] From my experience, I haven't seen Regional promotions hold shows in more than just their home region in this game. In fact, it would appear that Cult promotions also do not hold shows outside of their home region either. The only way a compromise would even be necessary was if there were no way to separate the ranking systems of Cult and below from National and above. There would be no more roster shuffling amongst smaller promotions that sorted by regional popularity than there is by larger promotions that currently sort by national popularity. The overness changes are just the same - it's just that the former only affects one region while the latter affects all regions within a country at the same time. Any workers who spend time on tv with a larger promotion end up with the same popularity in every region of the country after a short while, anyway. Averaging a number of identical values gets you no less shuffling than referencing a single value. The way things are, it is nearly impossible for a worker to rise through the ranks of any promotion without advancing to the national stage ... which in turn is very difficult to do without rising through the ranks of a promotion. There has to be a way to make this work.

[Nutlaw]

[QUOTE=Nutlaw]From my experience, I haven't seen Regional promotions hold shows in more than just their home region in this game. In fact, it would appear that Cult promotions also do not hold shows outside of their home region either.[/QUOTE] Actually, upon further review that does not appear to be the case. Some promotions seem to move around more than others. Those that move around more wouldn't have this problem quite as badly, as workers would get opportunites to gain popularity in multiple areas. Still, some promotions don't move around at all. In the game I'm playing, the lower level American ones certainly aren't. That still presents a problem. I'm not sure what factors into a promotion's decision to hold shows outside of its home region. Maybe pushes could be weighted in some way. For instance, if a promotion is 50% likely to hold shows in its home region, then pushes would depend 50% on regional popularity and 50% on national popularity. Or maybe something like a default 90/10 split for local, 80/20 for small, 65/35 for regional, 50/50 for cult, 10/90 for national, etc. Something to make pushes more reasonable.