Women’s Wrestling in the C-Verse

[Blessed]

I keep seeing people act like women's wrestling didn't exist before WWE started to take it seriously, so friendly reminder AJW drew huge crowds for years and years

[GrindhouseArts]

15 minutes ago, alpha2117 said:

Totally agree - Women, Events based around Openly LGBTQI+ people, Japanese Hardcore, Mexican Mini's and Exoticos - the C-Verse doesn't really embrace the realities of Modern Wrestling or even some of the traditional elements - It's not awful but it isn't as varied or interesting as it really should be. 

Yeah, I can see how the hardcore scene wouldn't have developed the way it did in real life without Big Japan, ECW, or whatever would be their CVerse counterpart. But that is different. Hardcore wrestling is a trend within wrestling, not society. It's like trends in movies that come and go. Is it possible that someone, somewhere would have had the idea to use barbed wire and trash cans in matches without ECW? Sure, possible. I'd even say likely. But it's not a given, just like it was never a given that 'folk horror' would be a cinema trend in 2023. It could as well have been avantgarde science fiction.

The involvememt of women in entertainment is not a trend that comes from the inside though. It comes from the outside; from society. That's why it's different. Womens wrestling is not like folk horror that could or could not have been a trend. Having so little of it in 2020 is like movies without female characters.

Edited August 3 by GrindhouseArts

[Matt_Black]

Obviously, haven't played long enough to see how it works in IX, but here's something in 2020 that adversely affected women's companies. In 2016, USPW or NOTBPW might raid you, but they would also cut a lot of their roster before hand. So while they might take half your main event scene,, so you'd have some really impressive free agents like Alicia Strong, Miss American Pie, Amber Allen, or Lauren Easter.

In 2020, USPW and CWA hold on to their rosters a lot more. (Obviously, there's no C-Verse Nick Khan.)

[TOTKingNothing]

9 hours ago, alpha2117 said:

Or - they could have just done something like adding new Women and maybe a Womens Company

Yeah, absolutely. It would be fine to just excuse realism in this instance to get some variety into the database, with lots of new women's wrestlers at the very least so you could make your own women's company.

[Doctor Crunch]

4 minutes ago, TOTKingNothing said:

Yeah, absolutely. It would be fine to just excuse realism in this instance to get some variety into the database, with lots of new women's wrestlers at the very least so you could make your own women's company.

I think, in terms of realism, any area that has women's wrestling promotions ought to have workers who haven't made it yet. To me, Canada (which has ACPW and CWA both with women) having 0 aspiring wrestlers (both of their free agents are unemployed vets) who'd like to make it on CWA or backyarders who dream of ACPW is hugely unrealistic. Likewise, every woman wrestler in Europe that wants to wrestle is signed by EWA? Seriously?

Realism doesn't wash. The low level recruits and wannabes that would exist in a universe with women's wrestling on national TV every week aren't there.

[Gigas]

1 hour ago, Doctor Crunch said:

I think, in terms of realism, any area that has women's wrestling promotions ought to have workers who haven't made it yet. To me, Canada (which has ACPW and CWA both with women) having 0 aspiring wrestlers (both of their free agents are unemployed vets) who'd like to make it on CWA or backyarders who dream of ACPW is hugely unrealistic. Likewise, every woman wrestler in Europe that wants to wrestle is signed by EWA? Seriously?

Realism doesn't wash. The low level recruits and wannabes that would exist in a universe with women's wrestling on national TV every week aren't there.

Adam has literally changed the ages of workers to make them younger from one CVerse to the next.  His reasoning was it's his universe.  If he can make Grandmaster Phunk and Roger Cage lose years of age despite years passing by, he can add women wrestlers to the DB.  

It's a fictional database. Instead of Tommy Cornell Jr debuting in 2025, it could easily be Tammy Cornell.  Or he could even make them twins.  Or take advantage of the new features and have Tammy formerly be Tommy.  

Edited August 3 by Gigas

[Doctor Crunch]

50 minutes ago, Gigas said:

Adam has literally changed the ages of workers to make them younger from one CVerse to the next.  His reasoning was it's his universe.  If he can make Grandmaster Phunk and Roger Cage lose years of age despite years passing by, he can add women wrestlers to the DB.  

It's a fictional database. Instead of Tommy Cornell Jr debuting in 2025, it could easily be Tammy Cornell.  Or he could even make them twins.  Or take advantage of the new features and have Tammy formerly be Tommy.  

Of course. My point isn't that Adam should be bound by realism, which was being presented here as the reason for few women workers, but that realism doesn't hold water as a reason for the lack of women workers.

 

And again, I love the CV, appreciate the work Adam does and he doesn't owe me anything. There's just this one thing that could be better.

[alpha2117]

4 hours ago, Doctor Crunch said:

Of course. My point isn't that Adam should be bound by realism, which was being presented here as the reason for few women workers, but that realism doesn't hold water as a reason for the lack of women workers.

 

And again, I love the CV, appreciate the work Adam does and he doesn't owe me anything. There's just this one thing that could be better.

Exactly - C-Verse isn't bad it's just imperfect.  It will never be perfect nothing ever is really but in C-Verses case it's lack of reflection of the real world makes it less than it could be.  Hopefully next time out they take onboard peoples points and try to inject some much needed life and diversity into the core game world.

[Matt_Black]

And when people say, "Oh, well, just use mods or the editor", this is what I think.

Me: Oh, this version of Monopoly I bought didn't come with any Monopoly money.

"Well, you can just keep track on a notebook, or you can use construction paper and make your own!"

Me: ... Yes, I suppose I CAN do that. I shouldn't HAVE to do that.

[The Masked Orange]

Personally, I don't think I would like for TCW and SWF (maybe one, but not both) to get women's divisions. In real life, I would want that. But  in the game? The worst thing about booking USPW as a gameplay experience for me is the women's division. I don't like the gameplay experience of having two divisions in a roster that can't really cross over. Similar to the BHOTWG experience where keeping a weight limit just turns me off. Am I going crazy or did SOTBPW have a brand split at some point as well that I didn't like? Now, I could integrate the roster/turn off the weight limit but that always felt very game-y and took me out of it. The other problem with the USPW women's division (and if the ai is anything to go by the CWA one) is that it's too tempting to set it up as a little side hustle where you're constantly feeding midcarders into your uber-workers *cough* Alicia Strong *cough* until they get ratings that are disproportionately fantastic when compared to the strength of the division.

This is the case where I'd want the C-Verse to be less realistic and either have companies integrated (ACPW looks like a lot of fun and a promotion I'll probably sink my teeth into in IX) or women's only companies. AAA was always a solid time for a slow-build American indy fed. The Australia suggestion I think is great because there's a talent boom there in real life, and I think an entertainment-based tv rival to RAW could start in the C-Verse with a lot of fresh faces and get away with it since they're not a work-rate culture in universe (which is pretty much the Babes of Sin City model of find an excuse for there to be eighteen or so new female workers that isn't 'they were in Argentina the whole time').

[Teasenitryn]

3 hours ago, The Masked Orange said:

Now, I could integrate the roster/turn off the weight limit but that always felt very game-y and took me out of it.

That is something you could potentially get away with in this year's data, not saying it's the only way or the right way for most but I had a look through the roster and you have Pariah as a Star in perception, if you watched Impact in 2019 she would fill the Tessa Blanchard role nicely (without the heat or her deciding she was going to not work when the pandemic hit).

I am not doing USPW because I don't want to be the $50,000,000 monolith (i'd prefer to try to get CWA onto Netstream to compete with them), but I know roughly how I would do it. I would have Pariah deal with her problems with the Triumvirate, there's three to six months in that, I'd have Rich Money win the top title in the meantime. When I am ready to make the switch I have Pariah pulled into a men's feud or potentially I go straight into the program that will make the biggest splash when making the switch to intergender, the FBI agent again outnumbered at every turn taking on the corrupt Big Money.

Edited August 4 by Teasenitryn

[ZonaCidal]

Could a Pro Wrestling Noah type exodus of top women wrestlers from say USPW, CWA occur and they form a Women’s Wrestling Revolution promotion starting at medium??

[GrindhouseArts]

6 hours ago, Matt_Black said:

And when people say, "Oh, well, just use mods or the editor", this is what I think.

Me: Oh, this version of Monopoly I bought didn't come with any Monopoly money.

"Well, you can just keep track on a notebook, or you can use construction paper and make your own!"

Me: ... Yes, I suppose I CAN do that. I shouldn't HAVE to do that.

My offering: Selling a tennis game with only 3 rackets and a note 'if you want to play doubles, download a third party racket'.

[Bailey1985]

4 hours ago, ZonaCidal said:

Could a Pro Wrestling Noah type exodus of top women wrestlers from say USPW, CWA occur and they form a Women’s Wrestling Revolution promotion starting at medium??

If that's what you want your head canon to be, then it works. 

[Mecha Kaji]

I got so used to women's mods like willr0ck's (so good it should have been integrated as canon) and my own OCs, I was actually caught off guard when play testing TEW 9 and lack of base options to bring back the Cverse women's up to my level. I'm currently in the process of building back my own C-verse with all attached, including fleshed out luchadoras, UK scene, TCW women's division etc.

Also to go back to an earlier point, same with Japanese Deathmatches. In my world, WEXXV didn't die, just fell on hard times but doing better now, also having the WQMMXX division and work with a GCW type promotion in America.

Edited August 4 by Mecha Kaji

[Kiheiji]

I want to know the in-game explanation as to why women in certain areas aren't as interested in wrestling.

[alpha2117]

22 minutes ago, Kiheiji said:

I want to know the in-game explanation as to why women in certain areas aren't as interested in wrestling.

I have a theory that does actually make sense

This worlds version of Wrestlemania wasn't as succesful which meant that rather than 1 Global Juggernaut the North American scene has 3 large US players - In our world after the Monday Night Wars the WWE was emboldened to do whatever they wanted because they had no real competition.  Meanwhile Madison Eagles existed and not only became the number 1 rated PWI woman but opened a training facility and had a fed in Australia - a lot o Australian girls ended up coming out of that resurgence in Oceania.  SHIMMER was puttering along but Eagles was sort of a game changer - Had she come up now she would have been Rhea Ripley before there was a Rhea Ripley.  Within 4 years of her being number 1 the WWE launched the Womens Revolution thing on the Main Roster after having first brought a bunch of great talent through NXT.  Eagles was over 6ft tall around 30 and probably not quite pretty enough for Vince but I think Paul & Stephanie saw her and Cheerleader Melissa and some of the other SHIMMER & Shine talent and understood that there actually was a place in the market for Womens Wrestling and the push through NXT eventually paid off on the Main Roster.  People like Eagles and Cheerleader Melissa could flat out wrestle and whilst SHIMMER was never a huge thing with the General public it definitely showed the people in the industry there was a place for more than Eye-Candy Womens wrestling in the West.   Meanwhile slowly but surely STARDOM was becoming a pretty major thing in Japan reigniting the Joshi scene which had sadly gone backwards for a few years. 

In the Cverse though with the US feds being locked in a seemingly endless 3 way dance none of them are willing to take too much of a risk with their product which means none of them have pushed Womens wrestling as hard as the WWE were willing too because none could afford to take a hit with an experiment that didn't work.  Also Japan and Mexico never had the booms they did in the real world meaning their Womens scenes are less vibrant as well.  

So much of the Cverse being a bit of a throwback to a past era is because no Global Superpower ever emerged and all the knock on effects that came from that never occurred.  Instead we have something more akin to the Monday Night War era or the time when Jim Crockett Promotions and WCCW were still a chance to boom like the WWF had. In that environment you dont see as much experimentation with the major players all sticking to the traditional wrestling formula.

[Matt_Black]

1 hour ago, Kiheiji said:

I want to know the in-game explanation as to why women in certain areas aren't as interested in wrestling.

I want a rationale for why one of the Yet To Debut companies is a British fed with a women's division when there are NO women wrestlers in the British Isles.

[GrindhouseArts]

7 hours ago, Matt_Black said:

I want a rationale for why one of the Yet To Debut companies is a British fed with a women's division when there are NO women wrestlers in the British Isles.

They have a special effect where instead of money or talent, they run exclusively on hope.

[lanky316]

The hardest part of it all is, there's not really any sandbox options with relation to womens wrestling. Not only are some regions really sparse when it comes to talent to begin with, some regions there's barely anyone coming through any of the dojos either, so while I might be able sort of struggle through insignificance (awful ratings, able to at least put on a show though and at that level should be able to grow a little) there's not options for any new talent of any quality to come through. I'd rather not have to use a quick fill or the editor but if you want womens wrestling it's near enough your only option which is a shame. Particularly barren regions with not even being able to fill a basic 4 person roster for a simple A Vs B C Vs D A&C Vs B&D holiday camp circuit show as a starter are even harder to deal with.

I know there are mods, I know I can create things myself but it's a shame that to put something togehter in order to fully play in the default database for the game.

[Doctor Crunch]

2 hours ago, lanky316 said:

The hardest part of it all is, there's not really any sandbox options with relation to womens wrestling. Not only are some regions really sparse when it comes to talent to begin with, some regions there's barely anyone coming through any of the dojos either, so while I might be able sort of struggle through insignificance (awful ratings, able to at least put on a show though and at that level should be able to grow a little) there's not options for any new talent of any quality to come through. I'd rather not have to use a quick fill or the editor but if you want womens wrestling it's near enough your only option which is a shame. Particularly barren regions with not even being able to fill a basic 4 person roster for a simple A Vs B C Vs D A&C Vs B&D holiday camp circuit show as a starter are even harder to deal with.

I know there are mods, I know I can create things myself but it's a shame that to put something togehter in order to fully play in the default database for the game.

I'm trying setting all the WWA dojos to even split instead of mostly male, reopening the Cat's Lair, reopening the closed Japanese dojo, and opening a new school for Victoria Stone-McFly that is fluffed as the students at her elite drama school getting surprisingly good wrestling training. We'll see how it goes.

[alpha2117]

2 hours ago, Doctor Crunch said:

I'm trying setting all the WWA dojos to even split instead of mostly male, reopening the Cat's Lair, reopening the closed Japanese dojo, and opening a new school for Victoria Stone-McFly that is fluffed as the students at her elite drama school getting surprisingly good wrestling training. We'll see how it goes.

Thats a good idea

In a defaultadj DB I imported about 200 people from ALTCVERSE and added the added Martels Future Workers pack 2.0 to get both more women and a bit more diversity into the world (both ethnic and LGBTQI+) to make the world feel a bit closer to reality without totally flooding it with people or new companies.  I am just going through and choosing free pics that are closeish to the ALTVCERSE people and Martel's renders are sweet so everything feels integrated.  Tweaking a lot of the characters to make them even more diverse and in some cases a bit younger or in Martels' case so they debut 1.1.22. 

I think I might try your idea too to get the Dojos to pump out more women over time. 

 

[JackNo]

One thing I would quite like is more masked women generic options in the default DB. I know folks will do mods and such and that's awesome, but as it is there's literally 1 masked female image for new generated workers.

[JackNo]

4 hours ago, Doctor Crunch said:

I'm trying setting all the WWA dojos to even split instead of mostly male, reopening the Cat's Lair, reopening the closed Japanese dojo, and opening a new school for Victoria Stone-McFly that is fluffed as the students at her elite drama school getting surprisingly good wrestling training. We'll see how it goes.

Oh that's a nice idea. 

[Matt_Black]

1 hour ago, JackNo said:

One thing I would quite like is more masked women generic options in the default DB. I know folks will do mods and such and that's awesome, but as it is there's literally 1 masked female image for new generated workers.

I know, I noticed that too. Also, women who had masked alts in previous versions (like Alicia Strong and Jana Marie Bowen) no longer do.

Further, remember how Adam was making a big deal about how most masked wrestlers were going to have an unmasked alt pic in case they got booked by the player or the AI in an Lucha De Apuestas match? Yeah, guess which wrestlers got excluded from that particular feature....