Dynasty discussion thread?

[Jayden]

Just an idea but....... might it make sense to have a discussion thread pinned to the top of this part of the forum? I understand that discussion about your own dynasty should really take place in there, but as a kinda out of character place for everyone to chat about dynasty's in general, it might be a good idea? some of the ways it could be used just as an example - If I wanted to tell people that a particular dynasty on here (obviously not pimping my own, but somebody elses) that I'd read recently was excellent and well worth checking out, I'd do it here - If I wanted to discuss an idea for running some dynasty awards, or an ongoing dynasty league, or competition or something, i'd do it here - If I wanted to ask what people's thoughts were on a particular subject reating to dynasty's, like "what are everyone's thoughts on realism in dynasty's, how important is it?" again I'd ask it here just a kinda general, random thread, for people to discuss whatever in, relating to dynasty's, rather than having to start new threads each time which soon get lost halfway down the page. good idea? bad idea? thoughts?

[vocalorigami]

sounds like a good idea to me. Would be a good for everything you said and for people that want some opinions on who they should play as in a new dynasty.

[jerlito]

thats a good idea i might put that in my website that i have i'm not done with but hopefully i will be done in the next day or so it going to have everything about wrestling and it's not my ecw website i mean me andsomebody made it.

[NickC13573]

Well, here is the first question. It is actually one of the example questions. How important is realism in dynastys?

[Jayden]

I really think it depends what you're trying to do. Comedy dynastys, it's not really important at all, but if you're trying to run anything semi serious it's pretty important. The thing is, and it's frustrating, is that the wrstling business proves to us time and again that anything's possible. Go back a few years and Eric Bischoff turning up on Raw having been signed by Vince McMahon would have been laughed off as unrealistic. It happened. you can make ANYTHING realistic, if you just give it the proper background. You can explain and find a way to make something make sense. It's lazy to just toss realism out of the window, and I thnik it takes away hugely from a dynasty. When guys debut too far up the card, when the wrong guys are signed, when there's a sudden influx of new talent, everything's rushed, nothing's played out properly, it's fine for your game when you're having fun but in a dynsaty that you're wanting to share with everyone else I think it really weakens it. I've got a lot more respect for any diary that takes an unrealistic situation and puts the thought into making it seem believable. I've read diaries where the mountie was WWF champion, and didn't bat an eyelid because the push leading into it made sense. If you want to sign AJ Styles in the WWE and make him world champion, go for it, but at least spend the time doing it the proper way and finding some way to make it believable just an aside, for a newsletter i put together somewhere else on diaries, a friend of mine wrote this article specifically on realism so I guess, why not share it. what does everyone else think? [quote]I, personally, find realism in a diary to be very important, although there are some grey areas. I understand how diaries are supposed to make a game more fun for the writer and stuff, but while that is true the writer fails to realize that the minute he/she posts a diary then it becomes something for the readers to enjoy as well. It also becomes something for readers to criticize. I understand that people want to do whatever they want in an EWR/TEW game, like being the WWE and signing a s**tload of indy talent and TNA talent that would never even consider working for WWE. That's cool. But in a diary? I dislike stuff like that. A diary, to me, should be realistic because otherwise it really isn't too much fun for either side. The writer gets off easy by being unrealistic and the reader isn't having fun because it is just an easy way for the writer to take. Anyone can be WCW in the late 90's and sign Austin to a contract and bring him in as a main eventer. ANYONE can do that and that is why it is good to stay realistic. Austin would never resign with WCW after how he was treated before so why should you be able to do it in a diary, a diary that you are just booking and writing as if it really were results from the 90's? See, that is where people also fail to see. They are simply writing and booking the promotion in a diary. They are pretending to just write up show results and such. They aren't acting as the owner of the company, something else I will touch upon. Another reason realism is important is because it actually helps both sides out. The writer actually has to think and get them creative juices flowing instead of taking easy street. They have to actually work to make a fued/storyline/angle work. That helps the writer become a better writer. The reader also gets more fun and surprise from the diary and may think, "Wow! I never thought that fued could be pulled off but he made it work!" Now, there are diaries where a random person buys out a fed like WWE or WCW, where someone inherits the company, a diary where a nobody or even a somebody starts up a brand new promotion and signs a bunch of wrestlers like Austin and Lesner without any explanation. Those diaries automatically get a no-read from me as I can not read a diary with a backstory as unrealistic as those. I may peek in and see how the shows go and judge the diary based on the idea instead of judging the diary on realism, however. Though that would rarely happen with me. Now there are grey areas to realism in a diary. You can stay realistic but still go over that line at the same time. All you need is something many fail to do because they are too lazy or just dont think of it, and that is a good explanation. An explanation can really solve everything. Now, a nobody starting a company up and signing Lesner and Austin is unrealistic, but if an explanation is given as to how that nobody managed to sign them then it can work. If you are playing as WCW in the late 90's where the vets ruled the main event and the younger stars rarely got pushed, you could work around that, too. All you need is a good explanation. People never or rarely give those because they are lazy or because they think they can go with the "Well its MY diary and I can do whatever I want!" arguement. Another grey area is if the diary in question is a fantasy diary or a diary set in another universe. These would include Cornellverse diaries, diaries that have a backstory that starts in the past and change certain events, and stuff like that. I don't think there is really any other arguement as to why realism isnt important. The only real one is the one above, the "Well its MY diary and I can do whatever I want!" arguement. Yes, it is YOUR diary. YOUR diary that you are posting for OTHERS to view and criticize, where most people I would say are expecting some sort of realism in it. You can do whatever you want in the actual game because that is for your enjoyment really. When you post a diary, it is because you want to make the diary more fun for yourself and because you want others to enjoy it as well. You should always do it for yourself first and the readers second. So let's say you want to bring Austin into WCW in 1999. You want to do that for yourself. But then you must think to yourself, "Will the readers really buy that?" The answer would most likely be no from everyone. That is when you work up an EXPLANATION. If you can come up with a GOOD explanation, then go ahead with the Austin to WCW idea. If you CAN'T, however, then chances are you should dump that option. The best you can do if you are going to do unrealistic things is warn the readers in the first post with a disclaimer. While it may not help much, it will still give you a reason as to why you are doing unrealistic things. Now, don't put a disclaimer if you're only unrealistic thing is bringing Austin to WCW. Only put a disclaimer if you are going off the wall unrealistic by bringing Vince McMahon into WCW, firing Hogan from WCW, bringing in HHH to WCW, forcing USA to drop RAW, making Ted Turner a wrestler, and more crazy stuff like that. Don't get confused with what I say, though. Just because I think realism is important to a diary doesn't mean you HAVE to book WCW in 1998 like it actually would, such as having Hogan hog the main event. Some people would think that is what I mean when it isn't. You can do a WCW 1998 diary and not have Hogan hog the main event, WITH AN EXPLANATION. You could make a news bit saying that Hogan has decided to lay off wrestling a bit to avoid injury to his body in his old age or something. It really isnt that hard to come up with an explanation for things. People who decide to just throw realism right out the window without any explanations for anything are those that are lazy or just want an easy game/diary to do. Anyone can write a diary about a promotion just starting up and signing the best talents from around the world. Anyone can make a huge shocker in WCW by bringing Austin back in. That is easy. But not everyone can write a diary about WCW just starting up and trying to stick with the wrestling style from that time. Not everyone can write an ECW diary while trying to stay true to the ECW feel. Not everyone can make a huge shocker in WCW by bringing in a non WWF contracted Superstar. So that is why I think realism is important to a diary. Not only does it force the writer to actually think more, but it helps the writer become a better diary writer. It allows him/her to try and make something out of nothing, make a big surprise out of a non-competition contracted wrestler, make a storyline great without having to bring in some big name that would never even work with that company, and it just all around makes the writer think instead of taking the easy way out or doing something that would never ever happen in real life without any GOOD explanation. GOOD explanations aren't "Sting signed with the WWE after being offered a large amount of money." A GOOD explanation would be "Sting signed with the WWE after several meetings. Both parties came to an agreement that Sting would work for the WWE for a few months to see how things are and then would be offered a longer contract after his current one runs up. WWE have agreed to give Sting a light schedule, that similar of The Undertaker's, so that he wouldn't be on the road 24/7." THAT would be a GOOD explanation to me. So one more time before I wrap this up, REALISM IS IMPORTANT IN A DIARY, THOUGH THERE ARE SOME GREY AREAS.[/quote]

[mystic]

[QUOTE=NickC13573;138976]Well, here is the first question. It is actually one of the example questions. How important is realism in dynastys?[/QUOTE] when thinking of realism, their is a difference when doing a c-verse or a real world dynasty. it also depends on what you factor in as "realism" are you refering to the handling of the wrestlers or some a strange gimmick or stituation. for example when doing c-verse, yes their are the little descriptions for the wrestlers, and some guys have gained a major following, but in general most of these guys do not have a reputation that they have built up in a readers mind. when doing real world, even though its the author's choice on what to do with the wrestler. If they go too far from the actual wrestler you may turn fans off to your product. Example, Hulk Hogan the red and yellow colors and all american image are big for him as a face. Now what if the writer gave him i don't know, pink and purple and he was anti american, pro north korea or USSR back in the cold war era. Not only would that be a bad choice for hogan, but that is not what most think of when they see hogan, thus they may not read you. Finally if you go too real, in trying to keep a RAW dynasty as close to a RAW show or a TNA dynasty to an Impact. It may begin to look like you are just taking what is on tv and transfering it to your dynasty. (personally dislike dynasties that start with the backstory being what was actually on tv a few weeks back, it hurts the dynasty as that involves no creative force what so ever)

[Jayden]

yeah I totally forgot to mention anything cornellverse as I have absolutely no interest in anything like that and never read them. I guess with those there's no way to be realistic/unrealistic really as nobody's real. As for real world stuff, I don't think there's anything wrong with taking a character in a new direction and moving them away from an existing gimmick. It's just a case of booking and writing it well enough to make it believable. The problem comes when someone does, for instance WWE modern day (and I only use this example because I've seen it sooooo many times), signs AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, and CM Punk right off the bat and puts them straight into main event feuds without any real introduction. It's just lazy, unrealistic, and in all reality if the real WWE did that the fans would be confused, and the show would be even worse than it already is. If you want guys like that in your main event, great, bring them in, find them a purpose, and push them for 6 months first. It's painful reading a WWE diary that feels nothing like the WWE, btu has had no transitional period. You can change things, why bother playing if you're not goign to? but, you can't just turn up monday and have Raw as a completely different show, introduce things and slowly mould the product into what you want. WCW, ECW, WWE, various time periods, some of the indies, they all have their own feel and if you can't capture that tehn you're better off just creating your own made up fed and starting from scratch

[mystic]

Jayden, just went back over your first post, and noticed the part about running dynasty awards. I don't know of you wanted to run your own or just wanted some in general because this idea has been brought up by a few people. [url]http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16202[/url]

[Remianen]

Realism is subjective. Let's be honest here, shall we? If AJ's contract with TNA was up and WWE came to him offering Alex Rodriguez money (~25 million a year), I'm inclined to think he'd take it. Just like there's only one team in baseball who can afford to pay ONE player that kinda dough, likewise there's only one company in wrestling who could do the same. In both cases, the organizations involved make enough off that one worker to justify the investment. It sure wouldn't be the first time for either Vince or Steinbrenner to do something totally against the grain or "accepted wisdom". Would AJ have to explain why he accepted that deal? I don't think he would since I don't think any sane person would question his logic. Personally, I'm the exact opposite of Jayden. I skip all the WWE/TNA/ROH diaries because I think they're overdone. Generally speaking, they all have the same workers and follow the same "what if?" parameters. Again, the realism of it all is highly subjective. I think the absolute best diaries are those where a person takes on a promotion and shapes it the way THEY see fit (not what happened 20 years ago or how they think other people would like it and certainly not following the status quo). But I will admit upfront that I'm one of those weird people who likes to develop talent and create stars, not have them handed to me on day one. That's probably why the Cornellverse appeals to me so much, since there are VERY few true superstars in that world while the real world mods are chock full of 'em.

[tristram]

[QUOTE=NickC13573;138976]Well, here is the first question. It is actually one of the example questions. How important is realism in dynastys?[/QUOTE] Not essential. I think it's important to pick the diary up at the state your promotion is currently in, IE, if you take over WCW in 2000 you've got problems and you can't pretend they don't exist... but from there, its your imagination and use of creativity to turn that around or change the course of history.

[Thomnipotent]

It's probably best to keep things within the confines of the game realism-wise. If you're a Small fed and you hire Hogan, you better be ready to eat the cost. :-X Oh, and if you edit, well... yeah. That kind of breaks the whole idea of realism.

[The Ego]

I prefer realism over crazy creation, unless its done right. BTW, i find it funny how all the decent diaries are rated like 2 or 3 stars, i reckon people must vote them low to be spiteful.

[tristram]

I wouldn't be too worried about the "ratings". Mine got down to a 2 star the night I was probably the most happiest with it. Next day after I thought an average show it was a 3 star.

[Jayden]

no no, i wasn't suggesting doing another diary awards or anything, i'd already seen the diary awards currently in the works. i just put that in there as a kinda suggestion of how a thread like this might be used that's all. [quote]I think it's important to pick the diary up at the state your promotion is currently in, IE, if you take over WCW in 2000 you've got problems and you can't pretend they don't exist... but from there, its your imagination and use of creativity to turn that around or change the course of history.[/quote] That's not unrealistic though, the main point for me in a diary like that would be that they picked up at the same point. Say it is WCW 2000. You can't just go, ok, I hate Jeff Jarrett, I'm sticking him in opener's as a jobber. If you want to take it your own direction and move him down the card that's great, that's the whole point of doing diaries in the first place, but if it's a gradual movement down the card with him working programmes with guys that elevate them in the process it works a lot better than him just suddenly getting jobbed out to billy kidman and chavo jr the first couple of shows. taking things in your own direction is not unrealistic. [quote]Realism is subjective. Let's be honest here, shall we? If AJ's contract with TNA was up and WWE came to him offering Alex Rodriguez money (~25 million a year), I'm inclined to think he'd take it. Just like there's only one team in baseball who can afford to pay ONE player that kinda dough, likewise there's only one company in wrestling who could do the same. In both cases, the organizations involved make enough off that one worker to justify the investment. It sure wouldn't be the first time for either Vince or Steinbrenner to do something totally against the grain or "accepted wisdom". Would AJ have to explain why he accepted that deal? I don't think he would since I don't think any sane person would question his logic.[/quote] Again, signing AJ Styles as WWE is not unrealistic. Why would they not steal him, if not just to get at TNA? and why would he not accept if the money and security was right? That part's not unrealistic. Having him come out on his debut show and win the world title from Edge, is. If you want to do that, it's your diary, but it just reaks of lazy booking, and if the person writing it's too lazy then why would i want to spend my time reading it? and yeah, as for star ratings, does anyone care about them anyway? i'll be honest, i'm probably more likely to check out a diary with one star, just to see why it's been rated so low, than i would be to check out one with three stars that just seems middle of the road. I'd disagree about the best diaries seeming to have **, as I've not seen any good ones that are rated that low, but that's all down to personal opinion. I don't think it's down to spite or people being jealous I think it's more down to a. nobody taking the ratings seriously and just ****ing about with them for the sake of it b. more members coming over from other boards who expect different things from diaries, and look at them in different ways

[Lazurus]

Just as a note I was watching 1PW on The Wrestling Channel over the weekend and they did a Q+A with a lot of the stars. AJ Styles said that he's under contract to TNA right now (the rumour is it's until 2008 but he hinted it was longer) he then said that we shouldn't be suprised if he goes to the WWE when that contract's done; if they want him and offer him more money. So in the real world it looks like WWE may get AJ as soon as contractulaly possible so it's not 'unrealistic' to sign him at all.

[mystic]

[QUOTE=The Ego;139102]I prefer realism over crazy creation, unless its done right. BTW, i find it funny how all the decent diaries are rated like 2 or 3 stars, i reckon people must vote them low to be spiteful.[/QUOTE] I don't put any major value into the star rating system, as I don't vote. Sure if it has high marks I my go at take a look at it once but if I don't like a diary I just will not read it. even if the diary has a rating of 5, but that comes from one vote my first thought usually is "is this really from a reader or is the author trying to give more attention to his diary then it should get". I have my own thoughts on what makes a good diary

[nimo34]

I don't get why people just go through and give diaries a 1star even though there hasn't even been a page of it yet. I've started to not worry about the star ratings, as they are very misleading.

[thug saint oga]

[QUOTE=Remianen;139089] I skip all the WWE/TNA/ROH diaries because I think they're overdone. [/QUOTE] i couldn't agree more....every once in a while i'll check out a real world diary, but only if it's some crazy stuff. but i just like how with the cornellverse, you have the ability to create all of your own personalities, moves, storylines, histories, and pretty much anything.... also, some peoples' dynasties make me veiw various cornellversers in a different light, and sometimes influence who i might pick up. with the real world what not, i just can't see anything except what i know, like wwe basically sucks, new ecw is garbage, sports entertainment is a beating, wcw is so f'n sorely missed, and tna needs a better chance. i know a lot about the indies, but the problem for me is that i don't have a ton of money to buy the dvds and watch the hundreds and thousands of matches i NEED to see, and youtube doesn't quite get me caught up on everyone. so.....yeah.... go cornellverse.

[nimo34]

See I have an opposite view, I can't read Cornellverse diaries without being lost. I like to know the people who are in the promotion so I know if they are being used in a right sense. I'm sure if you saw Tommy Cornell being used in a Gay gimmick you would think it was weird.

[Nevermore]

I'm kinda half way between. I love the freedom original scenarios give but, equally, I really like the credibility that comes with realworld stuff (this compromise is why my ECW Worldwide diary is set in an "alternate reality"). For me, it just has to have an "X-factor". That could be a cool backstory, an orginal presentation of a specific wrestler or anything else, just so long as it has something that makes you think "Cool, that's pretty damn original" (or words to that effect). Quote The Raven Nevermore

[tristram]

I agree with Nevermore. In the middle on it. IF it's a good diary, I can read irrespective. For example, I'll look at the Cornellverse just to see some of the guys from the Cornellverse that I rated are going - Remo, Christian Faith, American Elemental, Puerto Rican Power, Champagne Lover, Robbie Retro, Jack Bruce and the like. For real world diaries, I'm a massive old school and WCW fan. I find the current era of professional wrestling a little bland, as if the WWE (I don't get TNA in Australia) isn't giving as it good as it should from the position its in. But I loved the 'cartoon' era, I loved the Sammartino stories, I loved the NWA Title 'hour long broadway' stories, I loved the Four Horsemen, I loved the WCW Cruiserweights, I loved the guys that made up the Radicalz, I loved the Attitude era NOT just for Stone Cold and the Rock but for TLC and the like. We can all reminisce, go down memory lane and see different people's different interpretations on those times and whats more different people's interpretations on how to make those glory eras last onwards and upwards. That's the art of a good diary. Irrespective of who writes it and which promotion it is.

[Nevermore]

Okay, this is on a rather different subject but I would very much like to hear your ideas. In my current gameworld, Hulk Hogan passed away from a heart attack. So, ECW, WWF and NJPW are holding a one-night-only tribute show, where wrestlers from all three rosters are eligible to compete. I would be very interested to see peoples ideas for matches! The thread link is: [URL="http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?p=141064&posted=1#post141064"]http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?p=141064&posted=1#post141064[/URL] The show is explained and summarised in post number 324 in the form of a news report. Cheers to anyone who expresses an interest or makes some suggestions. Quote The Raven Nevermore

[That Crazy Guy]

Bumping this topic because we really need a Dynasty discussion thread. Who would be interested in a dynasty of the NWA: Domination scenario, but with twists. WCCW broke out on it's own(becoming WCW) and a new company has opened up in Japan, World Japan Pro Wrestling(Not really original, but oh well. That'd be me) to challenge NWA: Tokyo. I decided to this as talent such as Mitsuharu Misawa, KENTA, Genichiro Tenryu, Katsuyori Shibata and Bob Sapp were all left as Free Agents in the game so it'd be a perfect fit for NWA: Tokyo rejects to compete in their own(pure) promotion - this would be with frequent updates in America, to. Thoughts and suggestions very much appreciated.(Hopefully on a new name or if it's good or not, what I should change, ect.)

[That Crazy Guy]

Bumping this topic because we really need a Dynasty discussion thread. Who would be interested in a dynasty of the NWA: Domination scenario, but with twists. WCCW broke out on it's own(becoming WCW) and a new company has opened up in Japan, World Japan Pro Wrestling(Not really original, but oh well. That'd be me) to challenge NWA: Tokyo. I decided to this as talent such as Mitsuharu Misawa, KENTA, Genichiro Tenryu, Katsuyori Shibata and Bob Sapp were all left as Free Agents in the game so it'd be a perfect fit for NWA: Tokyo rejects to compete in their own(pure) promotion - this would be with frequent updates in America, to. Thoughts and suggestions very much appreciated.(Hopefully on a new name or if it's good or not, what I should change, ect.)

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=Dwight Mighton;144311]Bumping this topic because we really need a Dynasty discussion thread. Who would be interested in a dynasty of the NWA: Domination scenario, but with twists. WCCW broke out on it's own(becoming WCW) and a new company has opened up in Japan, World Japan Pro Wrestling(Not really original, but oh well. That'd be me) to challenge NWA: Tokyo. I decided to this as talent such as Mitsuharu Misawa, KENTA, Genichiro Tenryu, Katsuyori Shibata and Bob Sapp were all left as Free Agents in the game so it'd be a perfect fit for NWA: Tokyo rejects to compete in their own(pure) promotion - this would be with frequent updates in America, to. Thoughts and suggestions very much appreciated.(Hopefully on a new name or if it's good or not, what I should change, ect.)[/QUOTE] I don't think that name fits with Japanese naming conventions. The 'World' designation is a Western concept. A Japanese promotion is far more likely to use their own country as the focal point of a name (see: New Japan Pro Wrestling, All Japan Pro Wrestling, Big Japan Pro Wrestling) or an easily associated thing or concept (Dragon Gate). So the name 'World Japan Pro Wrestling' would sound like a confused expatriate unsure of which naming convention to use. Try using the name of the owner suffixed with 'Pro'. So like Misawa Pro or Shibata Pro or something like that. That might be the easiest way to go. Like, in my DB for 07, I have a Cutting Edge promotion in Japan planned named Sasaki Pro with Kensuke Sasaki as owner and Akira Hokuto as booker.