dime Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 the concept doesn't really have much to do with money or samurais or any other red herrings mentioned. in japan, the promotion makes the wrestler. in north america, the wrestler makes himself. so the former feels indebted to his bosses, and the latter does not. that's all. I never got an answer to my question as to whether this feature would be available in the cornellverse for n american workers...is there any point to turning the switch "on" for that area if the workers don't have any values coded in them? would new workers generated in n america have the ability to attain some loyalty value? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ryland Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 [QUOTE=dime;141352]I never got an answer to my question as to whether this feature would be available in the cornellverse for n american workers...is there any point to turning the switch "on" for that area if the workers don't have any values coded in them? would new workers generated in n america have the ability to attain some loyalty value?[/QUOTE] No. After spending the entire thread talking about how it is recommended that you don't turn it on for America, it'd be a bit hypocritical to then code it to encourage you to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitsukaikira Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 That's a shame. I'd like to see what some created feds could do with loyalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipshirt Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 Here's an interesting rhetorical question...would Stone Yoshikawa be "loyal" to NOTBPW because A) he is Japanese and comes from that culture and B) he was trained and brought up in that promotion. I think this is more him being loyal to the Stones, I'm just having fun speculating :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dime Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 [QUOTE=Adam Ryland;141353]No. After spending the entire thread talking about how it is recommended that you don't turn it on for America, it'd be a bit hypocritical to then code it to encourage you to do so.[/QUOTE] that's certainly your prerogative, but most of the appeal of your games is that it allows players to create their own wrestling universe...that universe is not always going to be something you personally approve of. oh well. just more database pre-work, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ryland Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 [QUOTE=dime;141401]that's certainly your prerogative, but most of the appeal of your games is that it allows players to create their own wrestling universe...that universe is not always going to be something you personally approve of. oh well. just more database pre-work, I guess.[/QUOTE] That's true, but I don't feel that I am stopping players from creating their own wrestling universe? In my version of the CornellVerse, Japanese loyalty will mirror the real world. If you want to change that, then it wouldn't take long in the editor to do that. I don't really see this as being any different from me not including many US luchadores - it doesn't stop the player from creating a mod where lucha libre became popular in the States, it just means I didn't want that in my Universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWideman Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 [QUOTE=dime;141401]that's certainly your prerogative, but most of the appeal of your games is that it allows players to create their own wrestling universe...that universe is not always going to be something you personally approve of. oh well. just more database pre-work, I guess.[/QUOTE] You're certainly welcome to release your own mod where American wrestling is just like in Japan. I won't be downloading it, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dime Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 [QUOTE=JWideman;141428]You're certainly welcome to release your own mod where American wrestling is just like in Japan. I won't be downloading it, however.[/QUOTE] I don't play mods, because to be honest I have very little interest in "real" wrestling. So yeah, you won't be seeing any mods from me for you to turn your nose up at. :D The Cornellverse doesn't seem to be trying to reflect contemporary wrestlers or promotions, and I'm glad for that. It's a fictional wrestling world and that's why it has so much replay potential. I guess I don't understand why it's so offensive to consider using this new feature in North America...it'd add another degree of difficulty and strategy to the game, which is why it interests me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dime Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 [QUOTE=Adam Ryland;141407]That's true, but I don't feel that I am stopping players from creating their own wrestling universe? In my version of the CornellVerse, Japanese loyalty will mirror the real world. If you want to change that, then it wouldn't take long in the editor to do that. I don't really see this as being any different from me not including many US luchadores - it doesn't stop the player from creating a mod where lucha libre became popular in the States, it just means I didn't want that in my Universe.[/QUOTE] You're not stopping them and I never said you were...I'm glad that the feature is an option. It will be a little harder for those of us (maybe just me) who want to play the game in a different way, but that's not unreasonable. It will be less "fun", however, to set the loyalty designations myself because it gives me a strategic advantage later. Not a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ryland Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 [QUOTE=dime;141632]I guess I don't understand why it's so offensive to consider using this new feature in North America...[/QUOTE] I'm not saying it's offensive, merely that I really want people to understand that the whole concept of the feature is that it's meant for Japan. While the CornellVerse is fictional and could play around with those rules, it would weaken the impact of what I'm trying to get across. A modder is not going to take much notice of my recommendation to not turn it on in the US if I've done exactly that in my own data :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 [QUOTE=dime;141632]I don't play mods, because to be honest I have very little interest in "real" wrestling. So yeah, you won't be seeing any mods from me for you to turn your nose up at. :D The Cornellverse doesn't seem to be trying to reflect contemporary wrestlers or promotions, and I'm glad for that. It's a fictional wrestling world and that's why it has so much replay potential. I guess I don't understand why it's so offensive to consider using this new feature in North America...it'd add another degree of difficulty and strategy to the game, which is why it interests me.[/QUOTE] I might use this feature in the US, for my own promotion (to my benefit I know, but here me out first). I quoted you only to emphasize your not totally alone on this issue, not to use it (the quote) to debate you. I might use it for a small promotion, that was built by certain people, who are actually NOT going to leave it, but are not lifetime contracts either. They just simply believe in it, having been part of it when it was smaller, and being a big part of building it up to national or greater size. The reason being, they believe if they work on it hard enough, and long enough, they will succeed in a sort of global impact, thus equality with the best. I hate to use this as an example, but it would be like you sticking with your family oriented resturant, that you began with the owner's, and are a big part of (thus, the reason a bigger, better paying resturant, or chain of resturants would want you), that you may just feel loyal enough, and think of this as your baby, that you would pass up a chance to a bigger resturant. This in no way is the same as the Japanese way though. I always think of Klingon's when thinking of Japan. Their loyalty is not unlike the west's loyalty to a loved one, someone you would possibly die for. It is very deep, and death is nothing to an individual, if it is for the "Greater Good". If someone were to tell you, I'm going to shoot you or your wife (child, parent, etc.), point is someone that you really deeply cared for, you would probably tell them to take you instead. This is the type of loyalty that goes on in Japan, and not just in wrestling. The automotive bussiness ( I remember the 70's, and something about alot of worker's taking their lives, because they did not meet a quota, thus failed, and was unworthy to live as part of that company). I know this doesn't really explain it totally correctly, but was best I could do, without actually ever living there, and only with Western influence as my teacher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 [QUOTE=dime;141632]I don't play mods, because to be honest I have very little interest in "real" wrestling. So yeah, you won't be seeing any mods from me for you to turn your nose up at. :D The Cornellverse doesn't seem to be trying to reflect contemporary wrestlers or promotions, and I'm glad for that. It's a fictional wrestling world and that's why it has so much replay potential. I guess I don't understand why it's so offensive to consider using this new feature in North America...it'd add another degree of difficulty and strategy to the game, which is why it interests me.[/QUOTE] I might use this feature in the US, for my own promotion (to my benefit I know, but here me out first). I quoted you only to emphasize your not totally alone on this issue, not to use it (the quote) to debate you. I might use it for a small promotion, that was built by certain people, who are actually NOT going to leave it, but are not lifetime contracts either. They just simply believe in it, having been part of it when it was smaller, and being a big part of building it up to national or greater size. The reason being, they believe if they work on it hard enough, and long enough, they will succeed in a sort of global impact, thus equality with the best. I hate to use this as an example, but it would be like you sticking with your family oriented resturant, that you began with the owner's, and are a big part of (thus, the reason a bigger, better paying resturant, or chain of resturants would want you), that you may just feel loyal enough, and think of this as your baby, that you would pass up a chance to a bigger resturant. This in no way is the same as the Japanese way though. I always think of Klingon's when thinking of Japan. Their loyalty is not unlike the west's loyalty to a loved one, someone you would possibly die for. It is very deep, and death is nothing to an individual, if it is for the "Greater Good". If someone were to tell you, I'm going to shoot you or your wife (child, parent, etc.), point is someone that you really deeply cared for, you would probably tell them to take you instead. This is the type of loyalty that goes on in Japan, and not just in wrestling. The automotive bussiness ( I remember the 70's, and something about alot of worker's taking their lives, because they did not meet a quota, thus failed, and was unworthy to live as part of that company). I know this doesn't really explain it totally correctly, but was best I could do, without actually ever living there, and only with Western influence as my teacher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdWarrior Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Will it be possible to use this for just one promotion? I've been considering using this option in North America in my own personal universe as well, since it might kinda fit into my world more realistically than it would in the real world. I guess I'll just have to wait till the game comes out to see. It's too bad that in the real world, we Americans often seem more like the Romulans or the Ferengi. :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdWarrior Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Will it be possible to use this for just one promotion? I've been considering using this option in North America in my own personal universe as well, since it might kinda fit into my world more realistically than it would in the real world. I guess I'll just have to wait till the game comes out to see. It's too bad that in the real world, we Americans often seem more like the Romulans or the Ferengi. :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 [QUOTE=dvdWarrior;149075]Will it be possible to use this for just one promotion? I've been considering using this option in North America in my own personal universe as well, since it might kinda fit into my world more realistically than it would in the real world. I guess I'll just have to wait till the game comes out to see. It's too bad that in the real world, we Americans often seem more like the Romulans or the Ferengi. :eek:[/QUOTE] LOL, Well, alot of place's I can see this. Really though, I wouldn't take it that far. I kind of look at Star Trek like Fantasy stuff brought to the future. I would not sell us short. We have accomplished in 300 year's, alot of things countries that been around for hundred's of year's have not. We have brought our productivity higher then anyone else in the world (means we work harder, and in some cases, ALOT harder). Japan was number one 30 year's ago. Although many low points in American history, we have always as a whole been for what we consider the good of all. Remember one thing, when comparing American (or bassically anyone else in the world) to the type of Loyalty you have in japan... there is a HUGE Difference in how we are treated, and taught in comparison. We are taught to do the best to provide for our families (Man or Woman now), and if that means going for a better job, then we do what we must, and loyalty or not. We have to pay for our own medical/Schooling farther then High School, and various other things that are part of our reasoning for living the way we do. Job's are very competitive, and at times limited. The personel you have to deal with on a day to day basis, that are directly in your chain of command (boss, etc.) can be make a world of difference in how loyal you are. These things reflect our way of living. If your treated in an unappreciated way on a job, you might take a job that pays less, let alone one that pays more, for a better work environment. These things make our way of living impossible to build the loyalty base that is present in the Japan way of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 [QUOTE=dvdWarrior;149075]Will it be possible to use this for just one promotion? I've been considering using this option in North America in my own personal universe as well, since it might kinda fit into my world more realistically than it would in the real world. I guess I'll just have to wait till the game comes out to see. It's too bad that in the real world, we Americans often seem more like the Romulans or the Ferengi. :eek:[/QUOTE] LOL, Well, alot of place's I can see this. Really though, I wouldn't take it that far. I kind of look at Star Trek like Fantasy stuff brought to the future. I would not sell us short. We have accomplished in 300 year's, alot of things countries that been around for hundred's of year's have not. We have brought our productivity higher then anyone else in the world (means we work harder, and in some cases, ALOT harder). Japan was number one 30 year's ago. Although many low points in American history, we have always as a whole been for what we consider the good of all. Remember one thing, when comparing American (or bassically anyone else in the world) to the type of Loyalty you have in japan... there is a HUGE Difference in how we are treated, and taught in comparison. We are taught to do the best to provide for our families (Man or Woman now), and if that means going for a better job, then we do what we must, and loyalty or not. We have to pay for our own medical/Schooling farther then High School, and various other things that are part of our reasoning for living the way we do. Job's are very competitive, and at times limited. The personel you have to deal with on a day to day basis, that are directly in your chain of command (boss, etc.) can be make a world of difference in how loyal you are. These things reflect our way of living. If your treated in an unappreciated way on a job, you might take a job that pays less, let alone one that pays more, for a better work environment. These things make our way of living impossible to build the loyalty base that is present in the Japan way of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdWarrior Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Actually, when I said we Americans had more in common with the Romulans and the Ferengi, I was actually talking about the ears. :eek: I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Perhaps we Americans are most like the, let's see, humans of the Star Trek universe, with a little Romulan and Ferengi thrown in for the entertainment value, along with a little of that stubborn Tellarite pride to make life on the message boards more interesting. :D I like how you describe American loyalty though, but it's got me thinking now that it might be more affected by personal relationships than by the new Japanese loyalty feature. Like I said, though, I'll have to see it in action before I make a definitive call on it. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdWarrior Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Actually, when I said we Americans had more in common with the Romulans and the Ferengi, I was actually talking about the ears. :eek: I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Perhaps we Americans are most like the, let's see, humans of the Star Trek universe, with a little Romulan and Ferengi thrown in for the entertainment value, along with a little of that stubborn Tellarite pride to make life on the message boards more interesting. :D I like how you describe American loyalty though, but it's got me thinking now that it might be more affected by personal relationships than by the new Japanese loyalty feature. Like I said, though, I'll have to see it in action before I make a definitive call on it. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hands Like Feet Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Americans are like [I]humans?![/I] Nahhhh! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hands Like Feet Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 Americans are like [I]humans?![/I] Nahhhh! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdWarrior Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 [QUOTE=Hands Like Feet;149111]Americans are like [I]humans?![/I] Nahhhh! lol[/QUOTE] Hmmmmm, sounds kinda funny when you say it. Maybe we're more like the swashbuckling hero, Captain Kirk, now that I think of it. :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdWarrior Posted September 22, 2006 Share Posted September 22, 2006 [QUOTE=Hands Like Feet;149111]Americans are like [I]humans?![/I] Nahhhh! lol[/QUOTE] Hmmmmm, sounds kinda funny when you say it. Maybe we're more like the swashbuckling hero, Captain Kirk, now that I think of it. :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Dr. McCoy was probably the most American of them all, "Damn it Jim, I'm A Doctor, not a Miracle worker!!" lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Dr. McCoy was probably the most American of them all, "Damn it Jim, I'm A Doctor, not a Miracle worker!!" lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdWarrior Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Perhaps, but jolly old Captain kirk got all the ladies, :cool: . Someone's liable to close this thread if we don't wander back over torward the topic, so I'll say this: there's a real good chance I'll use that option in North America, since it does look kinda like it would suit the vision I have for my Game World. Of course, I'll have to see it in action before I can make a final decision. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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