How does momentum work?

[The Shape]

I don't have a clue myself. With the 1RC data I was simming up to NWO going on real life booking, and before NWO, Taker and Batista both had A momentum. Now, after a loss there and a couple of segments on Smackdown, it's a C+. Then, Michaels has A* momentum before his match with Randy Orton on the first post-NWO show. He lost that match and now it's a D+?! What's going on!?

[theaddicane]

Clean losses are REALLY bad for momentum. Momentum in my game causes all sorts of 1238 hour head scratching periods. Oh, and Bad segments harm momentum. I'm not too clear on this, but are the quality of segments relative to momentum in some way? For instance, someone with A momentum would have their momentum damaged a little by appearing in a poor segment?

[The Shape]

I don't see why clean losses are such a bad thing; if you clean lose a fantastic match, you still had a fantastic match. Anyway, in my case, HBK didn't lose clean; Orton won taintedly due to inteference from Edge. And both Batista/Taker segments were an A, so they can't have dragged it down.

[AfRoMaN36]

Sometimes it acts mysteriously. Best thing to do is try to limit their appearances. If they appear in every segment of the show, the people will get sick of seeing them. And clean losses only kill momentum of someone with A momentum jobs to someone with C momentum etc. Other than that, it can raise with a good match from my testing. I had a rookie Kurt Angle (D+) job to the Rock (c+) and the match was rated a solid A+ Kurts momentum raised to C-. But if your key guys are having momentum issues just do what I do. Grab a road agent or someone you just dont use with higher momentum, put that guy and the guy whose momentum you want to raise in a dark match and when your guy wins, his momentum rises. Really cheap trick, but greatly effective.

[JS The Monster]

yeah but what does momentum actually? what does it mean if a worker has a high momentum? does it mean that is gaining popularity quicker?

[That Crazy Guy]

Yes. A worker with high momentum gains popularity quicker than anyone else. This all makes sense, picture The Rock in 1998, doing amazing promos week after week and winning matches(*Winning against stars who are more established) and then with his whole hotstreak going, he appears in promos that are below his average, fans don't catch on as much and he loses matches. If fans are in love with a star, and are watching him at a high peak of his career it's bound to hurt if he just loses.

[Thomnipotent]

Momentum also helps build advance booking heat, which helps sell tickets.

[Anubis]

I also know that you can't push your momentum above whatever match ratings you can get. Playing a Local promotion, you will never build someone's momentum up to A*, because you'll never have a match rated that highly (unless you cheat somehow of course). If you average C ratings, your top people will likely average C momentum. Don't know why this is, but that's my experience on it.

[Rob4590]

[QUOTE=Dwight Mighton;202963]Yes. A worker with high momentum gains popularity quicker than anyone else.[/QUOTE] Thats not strictly true. A worker tends to gain overness at a uniform rate. By that, I mean that he will gain an amount of overness which is the same in each match, irrespective of his momentum. Obviously if he beats a more over wrestler then he will gain some of his "extra" overness as well, but in general the overness gain (which tends to apply to both wrestlers in the match) will be determined by the rating of the match in relation to the wrestlers overness. A high rating will tend to give them a jump of 2-3%, whereas a low rating will not give either one a boost. Now where momentum seems to fit in, is that you need to get your momentum relatively high to KEEP these increases going. When you get to higher overness levels, obviously the possible rating of the matches (in relation to the wrestler's overness)cannot be as large a difference, so then you need to have good momentum to keep getting that increase (and of course keep getting good match ratings!!!) However - just to add to that - a worker with high momentum will TEND to get higher ratings in his segments (matches and angles), thus giving more chance to get the increases I mentioned above. So in that way I suppose you could say a worker with high momentum gains popularity quicker.

[Anubis]

I think momentum definitely needs to be tweaked. I recently had Dusty Rhodes (B-) pin Ric Flair (B+) clean during a tag team match as part of a feud, and Rhodes only went up to a B while Flair dropped to an insane D+. In reality, momentum does [i]not[/i] drop that quickly or that badly, not even with clean finishes, which most people prefer anyway. There's no way to gain momentum on one person without losing a bunch on another, which is wholly unrealistic. It's not a bad feature, it just needs tweaking so momentum doesn't get raped by a clean loss to someone on the same part of the card (or even one below for that matter). This wouldn't matter if momentum didn't do very much at all, but as it stands, it has pretty big effects on ratings, popularity, and title prestige. Some fixes are absolutely needed.

[Lita Maivia]

I'm also having problems keeping momentum from shifting drastically. In fact, I can't get anyone on my Smackdown roster back above B- no matter what. It's getting so bad, I was actually looking to see if there was a way to turn momentum off to save my segments but alas no.

[FINisher]

Hmm, in my long long MAW game, almost everyone from midcard to enchament talents are on F- momentum. I just can't get it up. Maineventers are from B to C+, Uppermid's are C to E ..

[D-Lyrium]

[QUOTE=FINisher;203772]I just can't get it up.[/QUOTE] *giggles like a 9-year-old schoolboy* Ahem... yeah, momentum seems to be one of those mysteries in TEW that can't be "worked out", which is why I like it. Makes it more satisfying when you get it right for a while.

[Lita Maivia]

What the heck? I just spent about two months building up a Trish/Torrie rivalry in my game. Trish's momentum was at an A, while all the other girls are pretty poor in the momentum area (from being jobbed out to get Trish's momentum up since she's the champ). After about a month of jobbing all those girls out even more to build Torrie up, I've managed to get her at C+. I let her beat Trish via disqualification after a run-in and Torrie's momentum stayed where it was while Trish's plummeted to a D+. *grumbles* I understand where D-Lyrium is coming from but at this point, momentum is the thing I dislike most about this game.

[Anubis]

That also takes the steam out of D's "clean loss" argument from the looks of it. I doubt even a clean loss should cause that much damage (though to be fair, you had someone with far lower momentum than my Rhodes beat someone with higher momentum than my Flair, which counts for something), but a cheap finish most certainly shouldn't cause hardly any damage whatsoever.

[Ironmike]

In my experiance it helps to put people with similar momentum against each other unless you don't care about the losers momentum it will largely stay the same. Example worker 1 with a B- beats worker 2 with a C+. The only time I see a massive shift is if 2 workers with A momentum go at it the loser usually drops to a B-/C+ depending on the match. Now another key factor is the actual match they produce, lets say its a B grade match, generally thier momentum will stay the same but if it was only a C grade match BOTH workers momentum can drop or if u had 2 workers at a C momentum put on an A quality match both would gain momentum. I find this works much the same way as popularity and this is mainly from what I have found playing as NOTBPW. I have no idea if different promotion types effect momentum in different ways like gaining/losing momentum by putting on good/bad angles in an Entertainment Fed.

[Anubis]

I also notice that draws, oddly enough, seem to help momentum all around.

[Blackman]

[QUOTE=Anubis;203763]I think momentum definitely needs to be tweaked. I recently had Dusty Rhodes (B-) pin Ric Flair (B+) clean during a tag team match as part of a feud, and Rhodes only went up to a B while Flair dropped to an insane D+. [B]In reality, momentum does [i]not[/i] drop that quickly or that badly,[/B] not even with clean finishes, which most people prefer anyway. [/QUOTE] Seems pretty logical to me. Someone builds a winning streak, a guy breaks it and the momentum is gone. Real simple. What DO worries me is that, for all the momentum the 'streaker' loses, the winner only gets a normal amount in return. A momentum should be reserved for the top stars only, who...well...never lose. :) I agree to the point that it's not fully realistic (what is in games?) but it's pretty properly done imo.

[Johnny Fenoli]

How does momentum work with a wrestler who has not debuted yet? For instance... I just signed a A+ popularity Hogan... he debuts..... and his momentum stayed at F.... so how's that work?

[Ironmike]

Largely depends on the first segments rating that they appear in. I had Frankie Dee lose to Steve Flash in his 1st match, it rated a B+ (they had great chemistry :D ) and his momentum after the show was an A.

[Anubis]

Popular people should probably start with similar momentum. I had to scramble to get Harley Race's momentum above F because he was set to win the top belt in his second match in MACW. I don't consider "completely unrealistic" to be "properly done". Momentum doesn't just die that quickly unless someone gets buried. If the match is good, the momentum hit should be [i]minimal[/i], even with a clean loss. Here is more insanity. Dusty Rhodes beat Flair in that tag team match causing the havoc I already stated. Yet when Race (at E- momentum) beat Flair (who had gotten up to C+ momentum), they [i]both[/i] gained momentum (to E+ and B respectively). It's almost like it's random. Makes no sense. Momentum simply doesn't swing that wildly or sporadically in reality. Going up or down should be a gradual thing unless you intentionally bury someone. Right now, only going up is gradual, and going down happens in a flash. I have a hard time getting even my main eventers into the B range.

[Lita Maivia]

[QUOTE=Anubis;204465]Going up or down should be a gradual thing unless you intentionally bury someone. Right now, only going up is gradual, and going down happens in a flash. I have a hard time getting even my main eventers into the B range.[/QUOTE] I completely agree with this right here. In my experience, it does work like this. It's a fight to get anyone up in momentum but one match can usually murder someone's momentum. It's senseless.

[flamebrain]

[QUOTE=Anubis;204465]Momentum simply doesn't swing that wildly or sporadically in reality.[/QUOTE] Tell that to Shelton Benjamin :)

[soundsofsilver]

Yeah, I just had Hogan win my six-man tournament title along with Steamboat and Youngblood, and they've all gone up 15% popularity points over the past month, but Hogan's momentum is F+. His debut was a promo (which seems to be a bad idea based on my limited experience) for his match against Masked Superstar, which was a B- and he won. He is 5-0 in my company with his lowest match being a C-, yet his momentum is F+. Jesse Ventura, who is 1-3 (also debuted with a promo), has F- momentum.

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=soundsofsilver;204685]Yeah, I just had Hogan win my six-man tournament title along with Steamboat and Youngblood, and they've all gone up 15% popularity points over the past month, but Hogan's momentum is F+. His debut was a promo (which seems to be a bad idea based on my limited experience) for his match against Masked Superstar, which was a B- and he won. He is 5-0 in my company with his lowest match being a C-, yet his momentum is F+. Jesse Ventura, who is 1-3 (also debuted with a promo), has F- momentum.[/QUOTE] Debuting with a short angle causes the momentum to have to start from rock bottom, it's a known error that has been fixed and is in the next temporary patch. As is sudden drops in momentum.