edenborn

Thanks for working on this. Taz(z) choking out Kurt Angle at the 2000 Royal Rumble is one of my all-time favorite debuts, and I'd love to recreate this magic and then book him strong, instead of squandering that red hot momentum.

Yes, please. As long as each feels like her own original character as opposed to a slightly tweaked version of her male equivalent. That said, it might be nice if one of the debuting female wrestlers had a direct link to the original characters. Perhaps Daniel Loiselle has a technically-minded kid sister who's following him into the business.

<p>The Heenan Family cuts a boastful, menacing promo on Hulk Hogan... The Four Horsemen jump Dusty Rhodes in the parking lot and leave him laying... D-X taunts WCW in a series of skits... The nWo viciously beats The Giant down until Sting makes the save.</p><p> </p><p> The "What's New in TEW 2020" section touts that stables have been revamped and are now "fully integrated with AI-controlled companies." In many ways, that's true: the AI will now form and dissolve stables; they'll team stablemates in matches; they'll bring workers in and kick them out. Unfortunately, one thing they <strong>don't</strong> yet do is book angles for stables.</p><p> </p><p> The AI <strong>will</strong> book angles for singles wrestlers, tag teams and trios. You can find interviews, confrontations, brawls, backstage segments, video recaps, etc. Nothing for stables. It's strange to see news reports hail the formation of this stable, or tout a change in roster for that stable -- only to have the AI show reports never feature a single angle for these stables that are getting so much media attention.</p><p> </p><p> Is it possible for the AI to book angles for their stables? Is that programmable? </p><p> </p><p> Presently, there tend to be a good number of backstage segments and interviews for single wrestlers -- with SWF I've seen as man as nine each show. I'd love to see one, two or three of them turned into stable angles, provided that the company has stables and the product allows for angles.</p><p> </p><p> What kinds of angles? The same you'd see for singles, tag teams and trios: interviews, confrontations, brawls, etc. </p><p> </p><p> You could have "standalone" interviews and backstage segments which don't set up matches; you could have "set up" angles that build to a match where stable members will see action; you could have "feud" angles where stable members focus on whomever the stable is feuding with; and you could have "revenge attack" angles where the stable attacks whomever just beat one of their single wrestlers or tag teams in a match. (This would be particularly good for DQ finishes to simulate a heel stable rushing into the ring to beat down the babyface who had been on the way to a clean win.)</p><p> </p><p> You could also reverse this: If Hulk Hogan is feuding with Andre the Giant, you could not only have The Heenan Family cut a promo on Hulk Hogan, but have Hogan occasionally cut a promo on The Heenan Family (as opposed to Andre specifically.)</p><p> </p><p> If the size of the stable presents a problem for the AI -- if there's something gamebreaking about all members of a huge stable getting regular action in angles -- then a subset of the stable could be chosen for angles based on their roles. Leaders might more regularly be featured in promos, while muscle might more often end up in brawls, etc. </p><p> </p><p> Admittedly, I don't know enough about how TEW 2020 is put together to know how easy or difficult these changes will be, but if this *is* possible, I'd very much like to see it, for realism's sake and the joy of an immersive game experience.</p>

While it's reassuring to know that the AI will be able to sort this out after the first month of play, this is far from ideal, especially if you're excited to play a historical mod. If you're looking to play the WWF in the Monday Night Wars, a good part of the fun is going up against WCW at the height of their power. When the nWo is the hottest stable in wrestling. Watching the AI nonsensically disband the nWo in the first few weeks so they can balance out their faces and heels will be frustrating to say the least. Happily, I remember Adam being receptive to making these kinds of fixes for TEW 2016, so I'm hopeful this can be addressed.

Several observations about TEW 2020's AI booking. Let's start, though, with a quick look back at TEW 2016. TEW 2016 As you recall, TEW 2016 has very rigid patterns for booking its shows. SWF Supreme TV will feature exactly 5 matches in the main show. The main event match will be set up by an angle immediately before it. Some of the other matches will receive set up angles as well. Then you'll have some angles that do not immediately set up an immediate match. Set up angles can be brawls, pre-match interviews, confrontations or backstage segments. Hype video set up angles only show up on events. Non set up angles can be brawls, interviews, confrontations, backstage segments or skits. Angles will involve 1-6 workers, depending on the type of angle. The show will always end with a match; it will never end with an angle. (B-shows have different similarly rigid patterns, as do events, as do shows with products that don't make much use of angles. To not get too lost in the weeds, though, let's put our main focus on Supreme TV as a point of comparison.) Storylines may or may not come into play when the AI books a show. Stables do not. In a tag or trios match, it's not uncommon to see the AI team a wrestler up with teammates he has no history with, even when stablemates are available on the roster. (This is particularly frustrating with a stable-rich company like SOTBPW.) Feuds are built up on TV intermittently at best, heading towards PPVs where those in the feud may not interact at all. Major stars in feuds may be left off the PPV entirely, while openers get PPV time in their place. TEW 2020 TEW 2020's Supreme TV is not quite as rigid with its patterns. I'm looking at two months' worth of shows and here's what I'm seeing. - Instead of 5 main show matches, there are now 6 or 7. - There are now 4 different kinds of angles. Set Up Angles Non Set Up Angles Feud Angles Revenge Attacks - Set Up Angles set up a match later in the show. In a refreshing change from TEW 2016, the match it sets up doesn't need to immediately follow the set up. In other words, an angle at the beginning of the show might set up the co-main event or main event. Types of set ups include: "An interview with [a team or trio set to see action later]" "A brawl between [wrestlers set to see action later]" "A confrontation between [wrestlers set to see action later]" As with TEW 2016, PPVs may feature a video as an immediate set up to a match: "A video hyping [singles, tag teams or trios set to see action later]" Note that sports entertainment shows like Supreme TV do not always book set up angles. - Non Set Up Angles (or throwaway angles if you prefer) don't set up matches or advance feuds. Typically they involve one worker only. They look like this: "An interview with [one worker]" "A backstage segment with [one worker]" You see a lot of these angles. Every show has them. They might feature wrestlers or non-wrestlers. If they're wrestlers, that might be their only segment of the show. Or you might see a backstage segment with a wrestler, and later they're in a tag match. But the backstage segment doesn't seem to set up the tag match in any meaningful way. Skits seem to have been completely removed from AI booking. Even in soap opera or comedy companies like RAW or ZEN. - Feud Angles advance storyline feuds. They look like set-up angles but they're much more colorful. Here are the ones I've found: "[Wrestler 1] attacks [Wrestler 2]" "[Wrestler 1] attacks [Wrestler 2] backstage" "[Wrestler 1] attacks [Wrestler 2] via the crowd" "[Wrestler 1] and [Wrestler 2] brawl and have to be physically pulled apart" "[Wrestler 1] and [Wrestler 2] confront each other backstage and have to be pulled apart" "[Wrestler 1] and [Wrestler 2] come face to face backstage and get separated" "[Wrestler 1] and [Wrestler 2] get into a brawl backstage" "[Wrestler 1] leaves [Wrestler 2] laying after a brawl breaks out" "[Wrestler 1] manages to leave [Wrestler 2] down after a backstage brawl" "[Wrestler 1] calls out [Wrestler 2]" "[Wrestler 1] and [Wrestler 2] have an angry confrontation" "[Wrestler 1] gets the better of an exchange with [Wrestler 2]" "[Wrestler 1] cuts a heated promo about [Wrestler 2]" "[Wrestler 1] does an interview talking about [Wrestler 2]" "In an interview segment, [Wrestler 1] mocks [Wrestler 2]" "[Wrestler 1] taunts [Wrestler 2] in a backstage interview" "[Wrestler 1] insults [Wrestler 2] in an in-ring interview" "A video covers the feud between [Wrestler 1] and [Wrestler 2]" "A video covers the rivalry between [Wrestler 1] and [Wrestler 2]" "A video recaps the [Wrestler 1] vs [Wrestler 2] feud" "[Tag Team 1] cut a promo on [Tag Team 2]" "[Tag Team 1] taunt [Tag Team 2] in a backstage interview" I'm sure I've missed some. Especially tag team feud angles. But you get the idea. Feud angles don't need to be in a show. When they do appear, they're always (?) either the first or second angle in the show. Sometimes they're both the first and second angle. You don't see them later in the show, which seems odd and arbitrary. - Revenge Attacks are rare post-match attacks that the loser/losers launch against the winner/winners. They take place immediately after the match or shortly after the match. They look like this: "[Wrestler 1] attacks [Wrestler 2]" "[Tag Team 1] attack [Tag Team 2]" If I'm not mistaken, a revenge attack is the only time you might see a show end with an angle. All in all, this an interesting idea but strangely executed. Logically, you would think that a revenge attack would create a new feud or further an existing. But these angles are unrelated to feuds. The loser of a main event can clobber the winner in an exciting angle to close the show... and those two wrestlers might never interact with each other again. As for the number of total angles per show, I'm seeing from 7 to 9 for each episode of Supreme TV. Have I missed any of the angles? Or types of angles? If you see something I don't, I hope you'll reply with your addition. Let's talk about stables. Stables in TEW 2020 have a weird bug where they seem to be constantly closing and opening with any rationale. That needs to be fixed. But there are other issues as well. Before getting into those issues, I would like to say that this is such a potentially great addition, and it's cool seeing stables listed in match results, name checked in AI feuds, etc. Appreciate all the work that's gone into the feature. - Stables don't have angles. I looked and looked but never saw anything like: "Interview with [stable]" "[stable] jumped [Tag Team] backstage" "[stable] cut a promo on [Wrestler]" "[stable] cut a promo on [Tag Team]" "[stable 1] cut a promo on [stable 2]" Etc. This doesn't represent reality. I know this as an Attitude Era wrestling fan who watched hundreds of nWo, DX and Nation of Domination promos, skits, etc. If you're going to put stables in the game, they should have angles where some, most or all of them get involved. You could reduce the number of non set up angles -- those solo-interviews and backstage segments that don't seem to do much beyond giving a worker TV time -- and add the possibility of stable angles instead. - Stables don't get very involved in feuds. They don't seem to have each others' backs. Yes, the AI will sometimes book them in random matches together, but you never get the sense that they're a dangerous force that can overpower you with numbers. Here's an example: Looking at my game right now, Rich Money is feuding with Nicky Champion. They've had one match and three angles. In addition to being USPW World Champion, Rich heads up The Business: it's a stable with Dusty Ducont, Rajah, Charlie Thatcher, Elizabeth Cartier and Sterling Whitlock. You would think Nicky would have some trouble getting at Rich because The Business will be challenging him to matches, attacking him backstage, etc. Here is Nicky Champion's match history: * Winning a tag match against Rick Law & Bulldozer Brandon Smith * Winning a trios match against Bulldozer Brandon Smith & Shockwave * Losing a title match to Rich Money * Winning a tag match against The Cold Warriors * Winning a tag match against Rick Law & Running Wolf Conspicuously absent? Any of Rich Money's stablemates. Similarly, Nicky has no angles with any of Rich Money's stablemates. This has no basis in reality. Look at Raven's Flock in WCW. Benoit chasing Raven but having to fight off Saturn, Kidman, Sick Boy, Lodi, etc. only to finally get his hands on Raven at the PPV. There's none of that in this game. Or look at the nWo spoiling main events with crazy brawls that close the show. Love it or hate it, that sort of stable interference angle is a big part of the wrestling landscape. There's none of that here. On a side note, the lack of a main event angle -- except for that odd revenge attack that doesn't advance a feud -- remains strangely absent from the AI's booking. Yet, so often in wrestling you see this. Austin retains his title in a grueling main event and BAW GAWD KING THAT'S KANE'S MUSIC! And Kane (or whoever the new challenger is) destroys the champion to close the show. Right? And that sets up a new feud. Why can't TEW 2020's AI do that every now and then? - Stables don't seem to feud with ex-stable members. Get kicked out of a stable, there don't seem to be any consequences. In actual wrestling, a feud is commonly (though not always) created. Now I see an interesting feud note about ex-tag partners feuding with each other but I don't see it happening with stables. Workers can quit or get kicked out, change from heel to babyface and then have entirely new adventures while the old stable has no further interaction with them at all. Once again, it's odd. All in all, there are improvements I like -- the show booking is a little less rigid, the range of feud angles is rather fun, and the booking doesn't feel quite as random as TEW 2016 -- but many of the most exciting features feel broken or incomplete. I recognize that my dream version of the AI -- where the AI would book strategically, thinking many shows ahead the way a human booker might -- isn't going to happen. But I feel like TEW 2020 is still quite far from realistic booking, and I'm hoping against hope that improvements can be made before the release or in the weeks that follow. Those are my initial impressions. I'd be curious to hear yours.

That's my situation as well. If the AI booking doesn't seem plausible, I rapidly lose interest in the game. No matter how much I'm enjoying the shows I'm booking, if I look at my competitors and their shows don't make any sense, I question why I'm playing the game in the first place. TEW 2020's AI looks to be an improvement over TEW 2016 in some ways but a step backwards in others. Stables are a perfect example. It's a lovely idea but factions are opening and closing without rhyme or reason, and the way the AI uses them is spotty at best. I hope this can be improved.

He could! Truth be told, I pretty much always hire Prometheus. Sometimes his Destiny roll works out (but sometimes not so much...)

For the most part, I agree with you -- even the best real-world bookers can make mistakes and/or monster push someone for, let's say, political reasons. My concern is that the 2020 TEW AI will book fairly randomly from one week to the next, except in the case of the top AI bookers in the game, who will periodically give purposeful pushes to only the most deserving workers. That doesn't feel realistic to me. I'd like to see the game occasionally monster push a character until they realize it isn't working. "Before I write the next chapter in my TCW dynasty, some of you have asked how the other top U.S. companies are faring. Well, SWF is now officially in Month 3 of the Prometheus experiment -- week after week, they're feeding him jobbers but the big man still hasn't gotten over..." Etc.

So, if I understand this correctly, only the top (85+ skill) bookers will ever give a worker a Goldberg push? Or do I have that wrong? Perhaps 85+ means they'll give the right worker that push while lesser bookers might do it more randomly (or according to their attributes/preferences?) A big part of lousy booking is strapping the rocket to the wrong guy, repeatedly booking someone the fans don't care about to win in dominant fashion. I'm hoping that AI bookers wiill sometimes do this. Especially if they have low booking skill. It would be a strange game universe if every single time a worker receives a monster push, the AI booker just happens to be betting on the right horse.

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="redhilleagle" data-cite="redhilleagle" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47317" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm interested in hearing from people who play historical mods.<p> What do you see as the challenge? can see playing them from a fantasy booking point of view (I want to book 96-2000 different, etc.), but what about you guys who like a challenge?</p></div></blockquote>This may not be the challenge you're looking for but...<p> </p><p> Sometimes when playing a historical mod, I'll go about my business of hiring the workers I like and who I know are going to be stars. But then I make a point of hiring their worst enemies. Especially if those enemies are also talented stars who are sure to improve.</p><p> </p><p> The fun comes from trying to juggle a toxic locker room -- especially if you set zero points to Diplomacy. You look to get everyone over but eventually you have to give up one or more of your best weapons, which the AI can then (in theory) use effectively against you and make for a more challenging game.</p>

Very excited about this feature. I'm presuming that the AI will use gimmick matches most frequently on PPV, only occasionally on A shows and never at all on B shows? With some influence from the product, perhaps? Also, I'm eager to know if specific finishes be included in the AI match results. In other words, we'll have "Valiant defeated Rogue in a Cage match" but when clicking on the match result, will TEW 2020 also tell us whether Valiant pinned Rogue or escaped the cage first?

These are very helpful suggestions -- thanks, everyone!

<p>TEW Bookers, I could use your help on this.</p><p> </p><p> I'm playing WCW in '94 (Hive's <em>Clash of the Titans</em> mod, highly recommended) and Steven Regal shows up in my Creative Meeting as a huge star with almost unlimited potential. Naturally, I want to push him to the moon. </p><p> </p><p> However, I don't want to push him as Steven Regal. I'd much rather push him as William Regal, as I already have a number of Steves/Stevens on my roster. Because this is '94, Regal is managed by Bill Dundee, who is currently going by the name Sir William. So I'm looking for some sort of scenario where Regal takes the Sir William name for his own.</p><p> </p><p> Perhaps it's a comedy angle where Regal winds up in a feud for his name, and upon losing takes Sir William's name as a substitute? That's all I've got right now -- so I'm completely open to suggestions and would love to know how you'd book this.</p><p> </p><p> Difficulty factor: I don't want to get rid of Dundee -- he's got excellent chemistry managing Regal. So I imagine I need a scenario where the two men stay allied, even though Regal's taking his name. (Maybe Dundee loyally gives him the Sir William name? I just don't know.)</p>

As someone who's long been fascinated by evangelical promotions like the CWF, I can imagine AI owners and bookers of this product prioritizing hiring workers with the Highly Moral attribute. By the same token, perhaps Highly Moral workers would be willing to work for Higher Calling promotions at a reduced fee. (Not to say that "Highly Moral" is a synonym for religious -- I'm just looking for a game mechanic that can simulate evangelical wrestling promotions.)

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="HiPlus" data-cite="HiPlus" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>What feature aside from the attributes is everyone most looking forward to?</div></blockquote>Among the *many* new and improved features I'm excited about, I'm most jazzed by the report that the AI is booking shows closer to real human booking. Any steps in that direction are greatly appreciated -- I want to feel like I'm up against a computer opponent with a plausible understanding of wrestling storytelling.<p> </p><p> Part of that is breaking past the restrictions of TEW 2016: improved matchmaking, ending sometimes on an angle instead of a match, using tag teams and stables more realistically, etc. But I'm also hopeful for better uses of setup and payoff, especially when booking sports entertainment. </p><p> </p><p> My understanding is the AI apparently won't be able to think beyond a single show (it can't, for example, have a heel stable beat down a babyface champ on one show to set up a main event match on the next show), but I remain hopeful we'll see some of that thinking within the confines of a single show.</p><p> </p><p> Ideally, when one tag member turns against another, or when a stable adds a new member to their ranks, it'll feel purposeful and supported by some element of story logic -- not just a random roll of the dice. </p><p> </p><p> Of course, I don't know what's readily code-able and what would be exorbitantly difficult to create, but just the fact that TEW 2020 is being designed with an eye for producing AI show results that more closely resemble human booking has me excited to give it a try.</p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Adam Ryland" data-cite="Adam Ryland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It depends on the attribute. Most are linked to one or more events (i.e. you can end up with Personal Issues from a loved one's death, from being cheated on, being divorced, etc, but it's a different probability for each) but there are others that either appear at random, or, appear at random but are only eligible for workers who hit certain criteria.</div></blockquote>Excellent, very logical, thank you.<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Adam Ryland" data-cite="Adam Ryland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div> It depends on the attribute. Some are hinted at via stories and in-game text, some aren't. There are also some red herrings to throw people off.</div></blockquote>Love the red herrings as well.<p> </p><p> Adam, one last thought (and I expect you've already considered it): the new "Talk To Worker" feature might allow us some insight with certain attributes or even the opportunity to effect them. A worker might potentially confide that they are In A Funk, for example, and in the same way we might persuade them to get off drugs, perhaps we could attempt to persuade them to get help/support for their problem. Which might work and might backfire. </p><p> </p><p> And red herrings could play a part. A worker might suggest a hidden positive or negative attribute is in play when really it's not the case.</p><p> </p><p> ("See how the crowd can't get enough of me? It's such a groundswell of support: put the title on me, they'll love it!")</p>

I appreciate the concern about spamming. However, in real life, reports of athletes going through personal issues happen with regularity. In real life, bookers aren't blinded to what's going on in their wrestlers' lives. I'd argue that Rich Money acquiring In A Funk isn't terribly different than Rich Money acquiring a physical injury that hampers his performance. Why would a booker be aware of his sore knee but unaware of his short temper and dark moods? Instead, this sort of mental/emotional injury presents the player with the same challenge as a physical injury. "This wrestler isn't operating at peak performance. Should I god push him anyway? Or make him more of a role-player until the injury heals?" Some players (me, at least -- I'll speak for myself) might enjoy the challenge of god pushing a wrestler who's going through a hard time. Yes, that would be dope. I've been hoping for that as well. It doesn't need to be an either/or, mind you -- the internet stories could both clue us in to situations we might otherwise not know about (as they do in 2016) and also react to major positive and negative changes in specific wrestlers' performances.

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Adam Ryland" data-cite="Adam Ryland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>They're also the only two that are immediately visible in the worker's attribute list; the others are hidden, meaning that the have an impact but don't actually appear when viewing a worker's profile. The idea behind this is that the player will need to apply some judgement / look for clues to figure out if they're in play. For example, if someone has a "Yes movement" style Groundswell Of Support then you should notice a significant upswing in the ratings that worker is generating and can choose to follow up on that.</div></blockquote>I'm excited by the new attribute system. A couple of questions about these hidden attributes, though:<p> </p><p> 1.) These hidden upturns and downturns -- will they occur purely at random times or will they be based on in-game events? For example, will a worker getting divorced increase the possibility of acquiring Personal Issues or In A Funk? Will an indy darling making a very successful debut on a major company's PPV increase the possibility of Flavour Of The Month? Or will the game simply be rolling dice behind the scenes and every so often someone randomly benefits / suffers?</p><p> </p><p> 2.) While I agree with the rationale behind hiding certain attributes, would it be possible for TEW 2020 to occasionally clue the player in via a randomly-generated internet story? After all, it's hard to imagine a worker receiving a Groundswell Of Support without elements of the wrestling community excitedly talking about it. Likewise, perhaps a random story marking the removal of an attribute? (Ex. "Rich Money has a new spring in his step; relieved friends are saying the personal issues that have plagued the star now seem to be favorably resolved.")</p>

<p>That the AI is currently booking very realistic shows is music to my ears! Excited to see this in action. And if the Auto-Booker can emulate that kind of booking, I'm sure I'll use it more than I have in past iterations of the game.</p><p> </p><p> Adam, a (hopefully) small request: Could the Auto-Booker please use the exact nomenclature for angles as it does for the AI-run rival shows? </p><p> </p><p> In TEW 2016, this isn't the case. The Auto-Booker will sometimes book an angle called "Storyline segment with Wrestler X and Wrestler Y" but you'll never see a "Storyline segment" angle in the booking of a rival AI-run show.</p>

Impressionable: This young worker makes for an excellent protege, learning skills at a quicker rate from their mentor, and is more likely to take on their mentor's personality traits (be they positive or negative.) Obstinate: This young worker makes for a poor protege, learning skills at a slower rate from their mentor. Heart's Not In It: This worker has a higher than usual chance of retiring from the business when not gainfully employed. Avenger: This worker has a strong sense of justice and hates to see workers bullied or mistreated. They are likely to form negative relationships with Bullies and Scumbags, and positive relationships with the targets of Bullies and Scumbags. They will not work for anyone who books a screwjob.

Cool. Hoping that Audience Boredom applies to AI companies as well, and that it generates news stories. Would help immersion to hear fans complaining about a company's latest disappointing string of shows. Likewise, hoping Audience Boredom can inspire an AI owner to trigger a change of bookers.

That's what I tend to believe. If the monster is menacing enough, then having him repeatedly clobbering jobbers should get him over. Sure, I'm sympathetic to that, too. But herein lies the problem. Let's say the monster destroys two jobbers with low overness and you rate the jobbers on overness or selling. My understanding is that the jobbers' poor contribution to the angle will drag the overall grade down. So far down that the monster may well be unable to gain any overness from the angle at all. With their low popularity, the jobbers will get more popular from getting destroyed but the monster won't get more popular from destroying them. That's largely the opposite of what we want to achieve. The jobbers should gain a little overness perhaps because, man, the punishment they took sure looked brutal! But the monster should gain considerably more overness because he's terrifying and we're building fan anticipation for what'll happen when this beast eventually goes up against a babyface wrestler we're rooting for. Why should it be that way? If the monster just ripped up the backstage area and snarled menacingly into the camera, he'd be rated solely on menace and the angle would get him over. But if he puts his hands on a jobber, only the jobber gets over? It doesn't make sense. With "name" wrestlers, someone who's being destroyed should make a difference, I agree. King Kong Bundy repeatedly splashing Hulk Hogan should rate higher than Bundy doing the same to Hillbilly Jim. For sure. But with jobbers, does it really make sense to rate them on something if the goal is to put the monster over, and not them?

<p>Couple o' questions about Menace and how to use it "fairly."</p><p> </p><p> Let's say you've got a super menacing monster on your roster and you want him to destroy jobbers, wreck the backstage area, etc.</p><p> </p><p> If he wrecks the backstage area, that's a solo angle rated on Menace, and it's likely to get an outstanding score. Possibly one of the best scores of the night, raising the overall show grade. Is this... "fair?" Put another way: Does anyone watch a wrestling show and then gush about how a menacing wrestler destroyed a bunch of stuff backstage, terrified the caterers, etc.?</p><p> </p><p> In a similar vein, let's say your monster destroys a match between two jobbers before it can start. You rate the monster on Menace, clearly. Do you rate the jobbers on Overness, Selling or Not Rated? </p><p> </p><p> With Overness or Selling, the relative unpopularity of the jobbers is likely to tank the angle's score. Maybe that's not "fair" insofar as that low score will do nothing for the monster, who should be getting over with those kinds of attacks. On the other hand, with Not Rated, the angle grade will improve dramatically and the monster will definitely get over, but again, is it "fair" that one of the best scores of the night will just be a monster crushing jobbers?</p><p> </p><p> I go back and forth on all this. Curious to know how other bookers handle it.</p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Adam Ryland" data-cite="Adam Ryland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>AI booking of the level you're imagining is not viable for me to add, no. What you're outlining may sound pretty simple from the outside looking in, and I fully appreciate that people who aren't coders can't be expected to take the internal workings into account, but it's very difficult to achieve in a game where companies can have such a huge variety of situations because of the sheer amount of variables that are in play. We did look into some variations of it and it was clear almost immediately that it wasn't even remotely attainable.</div></blockquote>That's a helpful explanation, thank you, and though it's disappointing news for me, I greatly appreciate that you looked into the feasibility of the idea.<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Adam Ryland" data-cite="Adam Ryland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>That is not to say that there aren't some simulations of forward thinking included, but they are just that - simulations. Having the AI <em>actually</em> plan several moves ahead is far too difficult to actually have, for the reasons already outlined.</div></blockquote>This strikes me as a clever compromise -- giving us the illusion of purposeful AI booking wherever possible. Cheers for all you can do on this front.<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Adam Ryland" data-cite="Adam Ryland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>EDIT - Just to underline in case it wasn't clear: I'm not saying it's <em>impossible</em> to do what you're suggesting. It could be that someone else will make a TEW-style game and come up with a clever way of doing it. I'm just saying that I've looked into it and I don't see it being feasible, so if it is do-able then it's simply beyond my range.</div></blockquote>Humility and honesty aren't qualities one always finds in game developers, so again, much obliged. To clarify where I'm coming from, I consider the TEW series the crown jewel of wrestling booking sims -- well thought out and tremendously fun -- so it's practically heartbreaking whenever the AI breaks the sense of immersion with its random-seeming booking.

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Adam Ryland" data-cite="Adam Ryland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>As Tom Bombadil noted above, your expectations seem overly high - from a coding point of view, translating your "Human Booker" reasoning, or even a simplified version, into a computer program would take AI of an extraordinary complexity due to the sheer amount of variables.</div></blockquote>Adam, that may be so, and surely your knowledge on the subject is greater than mine. It's one thing for me to make suggestions in a message forum and quite another for you to actually code the game. My read on this, though, is that the primary goal of an AI booker is to approximate human booking. Human booking is purposeful. Human booking tells stories. I don't think my expectations are overly high when I say TEW 2020 could make solid attempts on both fronts.<p> </p><p> Right now, TEW 2016's AI doesn't think ahead much. Every show, it's flying by the seat of its pants. But a purposeful human booker <span style="text-decoration:underline;">does</span> think ahead. "What do I want to accomplish this month? Okay, now how do I go about it?" </p><p> </p><p> As a human booker, you might build up a dangerous looking challenger with an impressive winning streak, and then feed that challenger to your champion on PPV. That's a coherent strategy -- it doesn't happen randomly via a series of meters. </p><p> </p><p> During that PPV match, you might notice that the champion and challenger have great chemistry. Acting with purpose, you now choose to extend their feud. Why can't TEW 2020 do the same thing? </p><p> </p><p> <em>*** IF the PPV match = unexpectedly great AND the AI booker's skill > random roll THEN extend storyline by random number of months ***</em></p><p> </p><p> That's one of the fundamentals of good booking, isn't it? "Hey, this feud is making money, so let's keep it going. As long as the fans are willing to spend money on it." </p><p> </p><p> Let's say you decide one of your tag wrestlers would be better off as a singles star. Now you need a storyline that dissolves the tag team. How should you do this? There are a few ways, of course, but they're likely to fall into tried and true categories. For example, give the team a painful loss, turn one tag member heel, and then feud the former partners against each other for a few months with the singles star emerging victorious in the blow off match.</p><p> </p><p> This scenario happens with great frequency in the real world. In TEW 2020, obviously if it happened <strong>every single time</strong> an AI tag team broke up, that would be no good. But for TEW 2020 to <strong>never</strong> think about how and why it might realistically want to break up a tag team, that's not so good either. </p><p> </p><p> Have you written off any and all purposeful, forward-looking AI booking as too complicated to even attempt? I hope not -- because even some rudimentary moves in this direction might help keep us invested in the fantasy of the game, believing we're competing against another actual storyteller, and not just a bunch of "on-the-fly" random numbers masquerading as such.</p>