lazorbeak

Probably because Vince doesn't watch MMA and is about 10 years out of touch.

More struggles for the T-Wolves: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k4z3liIzKM

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BHK1978" data-cite="BHK1978" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yes your top vote could be worth twenty points and then you work your way backwards. A thread like that could start a flame war, I mean look at how worked up people get in the NBA thread when you disagree with them about Phil Jackson.<img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Is "flame war" some new expression for a reasonable disagreement? I don't think anyone was hostile or insulting, people just disagreed with you. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Did you watch WCW? He had a ton of great cruiserweight matches.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Your humor detector may be broken. <img alt=":(" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/frown.png.e6b571745a30fe6a6f2e918994141a47.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

Yeah it's a list of who's on a DVD, folks. Not an exhaustively calculated ranking in order of relative importance. Just look at it. Where was this outrage when Billy Kidman appeared on a "best of the cruiserweights" dvd?!

Yeah I always found Bosh and LBJ on the same team to be a head-scratching combo. Neither plays physical defense to match their athleticism and the Heat already have a 4 to compliment their superstar players in Haslem, who is a solid role player who rebounds, plays good defense and can make open looks. They would still need a true center, but Bosh and LBJ is almost as useless a combination as LBJ and Jamison. There's only one ball. Notice that Haslem's 33 minutes featured 9 of 10 shooting (all easy looks), 10 rebounds, and a +/- of +9 in a game the Heat lost by 5. Which means in the 15 minutes Haslem didn't play the Heat were outscored by 14. The moral is: team-building shouldn't be based on friendship.

<p>Yeah Benoit was in the world title picture as a heel from 2000 to 2001 when he joined up with Jericho to feud with heel Austin. Aside from his reign as champion on Raw, it was probably as hard as he was ever pushed.</p><p> </p><p> And Shane McMahon was his manager.</p>

I like Self's idea a lot too. Basically push things forward: stop dwelling in nostalgia and do something that fans five years from now will say "aw man they don't have angles as good as <em>that</em> anymore." WWE won't do it because they don't have to; TNA is in a much better position to take more creative risks. I mean, could they do any worse than NWO redux take a million or the Four Horseman Junior?

<p>That would be a pretty terrible pay-off because Linda has no charisma and the fans don't really have any reason to dislike her. She hasn't appeared on WWE TV in years, and when she did appear, she was probably the only McMahon who worked exclusively as a babyface, always reigning in Vince by doing something to keep him from getting too crazy. </p><p> </p><p> Shane or Steph would have the benefit that both can actually cut promos, and while they haven't appeared often, they were on TV as recently as last year during the replacement GM period of Raw and the Orton/Triple H feud, and can actually draw heat as heels. The downside is it's <em>always</em> the McMahons behind these types of mystery angles. </p><p> </p><p> On the one hand, I'd like for somebody new like JBL or The Rock or some other former superstar not working for TNA, but it seems like the easiest pay-off is a McMahon or Triple H, babyface GM. I mean the McMahon-Helmsley era was a decade ago.</p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BurningHamster" data-cite="BurningHamster" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> Btw did you ever think it was my intention to sound ridiculous in that first paragraph? I really do weep for those who think presenting logical arguments in discussions about sports is the right way to go through life.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> So you said a bunch of ridiculously over-the-top outrageous statements knowing how it made you look, and weep for people who use logic? Okaaaaay.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BurningHamster" data-cite="BurningHamster" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>As for your friend, I know many people who are talented and still working regular jobs that one would think are beneath their abilities because those have yet to be fully recognized or there simply isn't enough room at the top of the mountain for everyone who is really good at something. That's life. Boo freakin hoo.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The point isn't "feel bad for my friend," the point is, he worked and worked and sacrificed his body and went to a crappy school in an attempt to get paid doing what he wants to do, and he's still not doing it. And there's thousands more just like him. The idea that the NBA just signs up the first 5 "sociopathic" "pituitary freaks" is insulting. They get paid what they're paid because they can do things that no one else can do, and people pay to see them do it. Peter's arguing that means maybe they ought to be accommodated for their efforts, and I agree with him. </p><p> </p><p> The average NBA career lasts about 3 seasons and maybe makes a million dollars in that time. And that's it: no retirement benefits, no gold watch, no guaranteed job in the franchise. Yes, the guys at the top make big money, but they make it because the market can support it and they're proven their value to other connoisseurs of children's games.</p><p> </p><p> Like I said, the players aren't the bad guys. If NBA owners couldn't afford to pay guys 100 million dollars, they wouldn't. No modern sports franchise has ever driven itself into bankruptcy paying player salaries. And players actually getting their fair share of profits (since they are the "draws" that people come to see), is a new and positive phenomenon.</p>

<p>BurningHamster, I agree PH was being rude, but you probably should just stop. You don't know much about the discussion and you're not presenting yourself in a positive light when you say things like this:</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BurningHamster" data-cite="BurningHamster" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>In fact, I would probably support the NBA more if all of the players were actual slaves and you would occasionally see the coach whipping them during time outs.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I mean nobody likes being called ignorant or naive, but come on now, regarding American professional sports, something you don't follow in a country you don't live in, being ignorant is neither surprising nor a bad thing.</p><p> </p><p> A lot of what you said in paragraph 1 was just completely ridiculous. Nobody has said players all hate the cities they play in, nobody has said they are "half-hearted" (in fact they play at the level they do only after devoting years of effort to improving to the point where they are the best in the world), and PH's point is that the players should be getting a slice of the revenue being brought in. In baseball, as late as the 1970's, owners were making millions while running minor league teams that required players to work as indentured servants for a period of several years before coming into the majors, where even when your contract ended, a "reserve clause" meant there was a de facto agreement promising the player would re-sign. This went to court where it was found to be grossly illegal. The players are not and have never been the "bad guys" in any intelligent discussion of professional sports. The majority of professional athletes are putting their bodies and sometimes lives on the line in order to potentially make a team.</p><p> </p><p> I went to high school with a professional basketball player's son, and while he had physical gifts that separated him from 99.99% of people, he never made it pro. He received a scholarship to go to a second-rate university, then hurt his knee, and was never taken seriously as an NBA recruit. The last time I talked to him he was putting himself through physical therapy while substitute teaching, continuing to pursue a professional basketball career.</p><p> </p><p> Professional athletes, for better or worse, dedicate their lives to playing "children's games" because it's often their best opportunity to improve their lives, and it is ignorant and naive to call them a bunch of mean names because the majority of them like working for money.</p>

Remember when it was him and Antoine Walker and the C's were terrible? They've certainly gone in different directions since then: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Former-Celtics-star-Antoine-Walker-is-broke-and-?urn=nba-198509 http://bankruptcy4austin.com/2010/05/29/attorney/lawyer/antoine-walker-files-for-bankruptcy-view-the-documents-here/

They don't change because they don't have to change. They have the biggest library of wrestling content in the world, they have the most visited wrestling web-site in the world, they are so far and away #1 that until TNA can make a website that is not absolutely awful they won't feel the need to evolve. I mean their website isn't great but remember how much better WWF's site was compared with WCW's? But I mean every guy on the roster has an "official" facebook/twitter/whatever pages. Why can't I access Shamus' WWE-sponsored facebook page and read his status updates about never going outside directly from WWE's site? I mean they could do superstar specific web-sites but honestly the single superstar web-page is already passe? Everybody already uses facebook, so just cross-promote through it. I mean one of the greatest things about wrestling in the 90's is it was cool enough to cross over into mainstream culture, whereas now it seems to exist on its own little island, and as the rest of the world evolves, WWE's content exists in a vacuum outside of mainstream culture for the most part. I mean granted, Zack Ryder's gimmick was perfectly timed for generating heat (it appeared before the Jersey Shore, but showed a familiarity with the modern guido), but that's what, one hit in the past 2-3 years? I'll also give them credit for hitting the Paul Birchall gimmick at the right time, but they pulled the plug on it before it went anywhere. I mean certain gimmicks are timeless and the last thing the world needs is a diva doing a lady gaga gimmick while john cena wrestles the dude from Avatar (although that does sound like something WCW would have done with Sting in the early 90's), but on the whole, WWE's production seems to be operating a good 3-5 years behind pop culture, which is why pop culture doesn't go out of its way to get wrestlers involved in the mainstream the way it did for Austin and the Rock. Going back to the website, why isn't there any journalism equal to what espn produces on their site for every sport on a weekly basis? How hard could it be to have something to say about wrestling? I mean I'm not saying you can't have garbage like this: http://www.wwe.com/inside/wwefeaturepage/features/stupiditylist/ That might entertain a 10 year old, but balance it out with some intelligently written editorial pieces. Why is Randy Orton the greatest champ of the modern era? Why Evan Bourne will never be a world champion. Stuff like that is guaranteed to piss off smarks, but it keeps them coming back to WWE's site. Make all the adware copy/paste sites obsolete, WWE!

What kills me is there's absolutely nothing that stops an individual from basically simulating kayfabe. All you have to do is not read spoilers, not read terrible wrestling news websites, and just react to the story the same way as you would react to characters in a play. Watching a play wasn't ruined the first time somebody realized it was artificial: of course it's artificial, look at the level of production it took to get everyone into the building in a position where they could see what was going on! Then, if you like what you're watching, keep watching it. It's really that simple. If what kills your interest in wrestling is nostalgia for when you used to be a mark, maybe it's time to start acting like a mark again? Stop worrying about how many stars somebody gave something and just react organically to what you're watching.

Yeah I don't think anyone is saying Rondo is great because of one game. He led the league in steals, averaged 10 assists a game, and was named first team defense last year, and that was before he stepped up his game in the post-season.

So are the Chiefs really going to win the AFC West? It's looking more and more possible. The Raiders are even in the conversation. I still like San Diego's defense and QB over those clubs, but Norv Turner is just not a very good coach, especially in the Fall.

The flip-side is that if Rondo had a better shot he probably wouldn't be able to put up monster 24 assist games any more, but yeah there's no doubt he's already a top PG. All I'm saying is if he could score more efficiently, he would be in the running for MVP. As it is, he's probably the best passing/defensive point guard since Jason Kidd 12 years ago.

Yeah definitely. If he could shoot, he'd be an MVP candidate the same way Steve Nash was: I mean he's already a better defender and rebounder than Nash. The only difference is you have to guard Nash on the outside or he can make you pay.

Are you really insinuating I'm a troll or am I misreading something here? I mean it's not like I said this: Five months ago in this very thread.

Didn't everyone find this out in 2008 when he went completely unguarded for most of the post-season and still wouldn't take 15 footers? I guess we found out he still can't shoot.

Okay this both just off-topic and incendiary. Let's not continue to make this thread about politics? So, how about NXT? It sure is a show, by the loosest definition of the term.

You're giving me a headache here. Do you really not understand the difference between a well-timed piece of self-hyping propaganda and a public forum? They are not the same. Edit: here's the 2010 campaign details: http://www.fec.gov/DisclosureSearch/mapHSCandDetail.do;jsessionid=55CB7E12EE549B479F691F7E6AF7DF6B.worker1 You may notice that the FEC doesn't care what corporations do outside of campaign contributions. Acting independently is a whole other deal. Whether you buy that it's truly independent is irrelevant. Further, there's absolutely nothing stopping privately held corporations from endorsing candidates, in fact, a lot of corporations tend to do just that by financially backing PACs that support their politics. Unless you're saying Vince & Co. don't get First Amendment protections (that treat corporations as people) that everybody else gets? Because... he has a TV show?

No, this is not true. Not even a little bit. WWE is a corporation that has a venue to say what it wants: it's not a news service and has no requirements regarding objectivity. It's not a town hall meeting, it's a TV show. Yes, it's propaganda, but it's pretty hilarious to suggest it's illegal.

Rodman and Leno didn't hurt WCW, and both were involved during the absolute height of the company. WCW didn't "crumble" because of their involvement. As dumb as Arquette as champion was, it wasn't even a top 5 reason WCW no longer exists as a wrestling promotion.

Well I wouldn't have felt the need to say anything except you said: But in fact it is clear that it isn't a travel, based on the NBA rule I just quoted. Which is why I quoted it. Yes, maybe some officials still would have gotten it wrong, because, as I said earlier, it was a freak play that he managed to move that far off one jump (with help from Kevin Garnett), but you were saying that technically that's a travel under the rules, when in fact it's not a travel and an official calling it a travel would have been wrong.