GatorBait19

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PeterHilton" data-cite="PeterHilton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26724" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You're still not getting it:<p> </p><p> I never said I thought Manning was the right choice. That's not even the point.</p><p> </p><p> You said that writers shouldn't be allowed to vote on the MVP (or anything, ever, actually ) <strong>based on the fact that they voted Peyton Manning the MVP.</strong></p><p> </p><p> Can you argue that others were more deserving? Obviously. </p><p> </p><p> But the only way you could say that your argument actually holds up would be to somehow show that voting for Manning was so incredibly indefensible and unreasonable that it totally destroys their credibility. That voting for Payton Manning actually proves that the writers who voted for the award are completely incompetent.</p><p> </p><p> So again...all you've really said in your last three posts is that all writers have zero credibility basically because they disagree with YOU. </p><p> </p><p> Just because YOU don't agree with their votes does not automatically mean they don't know what they're talking about. </p><p> </p><p> I'll take Peter King's opinion over GatorBait19 if it's all the same to you, ok?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That wasn't my arugment to start, you took it into just that. we were talking about someone going into the hall and you keep rolling with Manning, I even how long it took Jim Rice to get in</p><p> </p><p> So here then, I will change my stance. let the writers vote for awards, but not for the Hall of Fame</p>

my god you are so right, look the had the 18 best defense in the NFL wow that is amazing........ wait what's this..... (scrolls over to ranking of ppg) they were 8th hardest team to score on.... better than the vikes and saints wow i guess you proved it, he had a very average defense!

How is defeating my argument? Jim Rice should have been a HOF a long time ago but because he had a bad relationship with the media it took him a long time to get into it. Manning is loved by the media... that helped him, i never said it was a horrible choice. My argument is that the writers don't look at every aspect, Favre made everyone else around him better, and last time I check MVP mean Most Valuable Player. Which mean person who does the most and helps out the most Favre made Sidney Rice into a threat, Percy Harvin looked very good his first year catching the ball, and made the vikes TE look good Who did Manning make look good? Dallas Clark and Reggie Wayne? They were good before this season.

okay so with out Favre there are the second best team? I never said they weren't a playoff team, I said they didn't make it as far, they wouldn't have won there conference, plus Favre improved all his numbers, and made Sidney Rice look like the player we have been waiting for him to look at his first two years without a QB, playoff team with AP maybe, conference title game extremely doubtful so yes he was a huge huge huge peice of that team i'm not saying Manning wasn't a good choice, i just believe Favre and Brees who both had better stats were the better choices

personally I don't think writers should vote for crap. Who truly believes Peyton Manning was MVP this year???????? sure he had great numbers but Brees had better, but to me Brees wasnt either, i believe Favre was, with out Favre the vikes didnt make it nearly as far. Writers should just not vote, period, awards, Hof anything

To me Ricky and Jeter are both first ballot with out a doubt. Jeter is the best SS ever in Yankee history and has been a leader his whole time there, Henderson set records that were never meant to be set by a lead-off hitter here is a better question..... does anyone believe Nomar is a hall of famer? injuries messed his whole career up, so I honestly say no, not when you have people like Jeter and A-Rod who were always considered better SS then you

I like your pick of Brooks I really do (at 3B) it was between Evan Longoria, Brooks, and Schmidt, I choose Schmidt because even is still only 2 years into this, and Schmidt also had a wonderful glove (not like Brooks and his 16 Gold Gloves, but 10 is still impressive) but he also had the power numbers to play the position

okay for gigles everyone make a team, 25 players who you would want on your team right now, Past and present, just starters and one closer though C- Ivan "Pudge" Rodriguez; Probably the greatest catcher ever, great defense, and very soild offense (.299 average), Johnny Bench's career AVG played a part as well 1B- Albert Pujols; yes there have been many greats here Lou Gehrig, Jimmie Foxx, but this man, can hit, play defense (2006 Gold Glove) and plays many different positions (started in LF, played some RF, 3B, 1B, and yes even SS) oh and if it wasn't for a man named Barry Bonds and cheating this man could have had 6 MVP's before he even turned 30 2B- Roberto Alomar; Jackie Robison was close but the defense this man gave, plus the ability to hit and steal made him a the man to me, sorry eddie collins and joe morgan SS- Ozzie Smith; The Wizard, I sacrificed power (A-rod) and all around hitting for a great middle infield, yes A-rod has won gold gloves before but Ozzie was a defensive player through and through 3B- Mike Schmidt; A sacrifice in AVG, but power and the glove were always there, Brooks Robison got beat out because of the power numbers LF- Ted Williams; sorry Stan Musial, you were great but Ted was the LF man CF- Ken Griffey Jr; The reason I went with JR or mayes (besides the whole best athlete thing is) Griffey in 300 less games is only 30 HR's away from Mayes and I believe still to this day that without the injuires with the Reds this man would be number one all-time on most offensive and defensive cat. (gold gloves) RF- Hank Aaron; Reason I choose him over Ruth is simple, he was a much better athlete, and in this line up, you can tell defenisve ablitiy does play a roll DH- Babe Ruth; 1 MVP and 2 All-Star games.... Really, because I would do AL I have the luxury of letting Babe focus just on hitting, what a great player Batting Order 1) Roberto Alamor 2) Ivan Rodriguez 3) Ken Griffey Jr. 4) Babe Ruth 5) Ted Williams 6) Albert Pujlos 7) Hank Aaron 8) Mike Schmidt 9) Ozzie Smith Pitching 1) Left Grove; Don't know the name, look it up. I read books about this guy growing up, and when you can post a .680 winning % you are starting with me, plus the 300 wins, and the innings he can eat 2) Pedro Martinez; Hands down probably the most wicked stuff I have ever seen 3) Tom Seaver; Great pitcher, need I say more 4) Walter Johnson; Man won 2 MVP's..... as a pitcher, 2nd all-time in wins 5) Sandy Koufax; hey you win 65% of the time and you can start here Closer- Mariano Rivera; Listen this guy is the greatest, might not hold the record for most saves ever, and does struggle some years, but would you be willing to give any other pitcher the ball with the basesload and no outs in the last inning of the seven game of the world seires........ it's okay, ill wait

hmm, very true, Babe was the best baseball player ever (so far) I guess I should rephrase my self, Griffey is the best all around athlete in baseball

I believe i said Rice had a bad relationship with them, but also Rice was considered the best LF of his time, and lead the league in HR three times, and RBI 4 I believe. but enough of this, Thomas will be a Hall of Famer, congrats, next name Bagwell will go in this year in my opinnion Larry Walker; With out a doubt, based off stats, but Injuries and the Coors effect will play into it Edgar Martinez; Great hitter, one of the best in modern age, but didn't play D John Olerud; consistent, had two great years McGwire; Finally came clean, so does this help his standing? Rafael Palmeiro; Another great player at 1B but a roid user Juan Gonzalez; Has been linked but never found to have done roids, to me his head never got bigger, but was a great player Kevin Brown; Very talented pitcher, injuries killed him

Thank and once again I am not knocking Thomas, I think he was a great player with great stats, just not the best at his position at any one given time, sure maybe in the AL he ruled the 1B position for 6 years or whatever, but I believe until the emergence of Albert P. Bags was the man, he was more athletic, was more durable, better glove, and a great bat. Today the people who vote players in look at a lot more than HR, if it weren't true Jim Rice would have been a first ballot, but many things go into it Look at Dick LeBeau of the Steelers, the man is the 8th on the all-time INT leaders, just being passed for 7th this year by Sharper, has had tons of great Defensive teams, and just not got into the hall They look at everything now, if you had a crappy relationship with the media (Bonds, Rice) they will keep you out of it, if you were a bad person on the outside of the game (Irvin) they will make you wait, numbers don't do it anymore, a lot more goes into it

also no offense but no one touched Griffey, great all around, injuries truly destroied what I consider the best all around player probably ever, he is the Jerry Rice of the MLB

see you are saying that based on stats, remember defense? Thomas was never considered a top 15 first basemen defensively But I can think of many 1B Jeff Bagwell, Mark Grace (not a power guy, but all around good player). But once again this isn't mean knocking Thomas, stats wise he is in but the Hall doesn't just look at stats anymore, they look at everything. To me Bagwell was a much better player than Thomas ever will be. From his swing (a very sweet swing) but look at the stats Bags: AVG. .297; HR 449; RBI 1529, Walks 1401; SO 1558; OBP .408; SLG .540; SB 202; CS 72; Triples 32; Doubles 488; Hits; 2314; plus a gold glove and MVP http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bagweje01.shtml?redir Now before I tell you Thomas' stats, Frank and Bags were actually born on the same exact day and year, so they are the same age. For Fairness I will cut them both off at 05 to compare their stats next to each other up to the time Bags retired Thomas: AVG: .301; HR 440; RBI 1435; Walks 1420; SO 1108; OPS .419; SLG. 555; SB 32; CS 23; Triples 12; Doubles 495; Hits 2077; http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/thomafr04.shtml?redir Great stats by both but to me Bags was the better athlete, better glove, and a better 1B then Thomas P.S Truly odd they had the same birthday, also they both won their first MVP at the same time but Bags was the ML MVP as well as NL, didn't know that was an award

the only thing I think that will knock on Thomas is he was never the best at his position and about the steroids thing http://media.photobucket.com/image/frank%20thomas/saucywombat/FRANK_THOMAS_RC.jpg http://webpages.maine207.org/staff/atrenkle/AADB019~Frank-Thomas-Studio-Portrait-Photofile-Posters.jpg they head grew along with his body i guess, but that is beside the point, Frank may have never been the best at his position (1B/DH) but his stats stat that he is a Hall of Famer. Personally I think the Steroid argument for guys up to vote is dumb as well, because all steroids does his help you get bigger, faster, and stronger. That might be cheating to some but don't protein shakes help you improve muscle as well? Plus even with steroids you still have to hit the ball But Thomas to me, steroid are not may not have been the best, like I have stated before, but certainly a Hall of Famer

Okay

Is this dead?

I love the snow and sWo segment... pure gold

Nevermore i would love to play with your data! P.S best diary out here cheers mate

Japan vs. Ireland The USA vs. England Scheuled for Revolution: Samoa vs. The sWo Mexico vs. Canada

Great Read i look forward to your entry every week