Hive

<p>A historical mod from a period where my fandom was at it's highest, preferably evolving around a big milestone occuring in the world of wrestling.</p><p> </p><p> When I play, I play to create alternative history, most often because there's a certain event or storyline I would like to see a different take on.</p>

I'm looking forward to this one a great deal. Can't wait to see all those media groups! <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />

Fantastic idea and execution. Really brings me back to the many joyous hours I've had with Vice City.

<p>Very interesting gimmick concept.</p><p> </p><p> A few questions:</p><p> </p><p> 1. Will we be able to pre-define a gimmick with pros and cons for an active contract?</p><p> </p><p> 2. Will we be able to pre-define a gimmick with pros and cons as default gimmick for a worker?</p><p> </p><p> 3. Will we be able to pre-define a gimmick with pros and cons for an alter for a worker?</p>

I think most people agree that Battfleck was pretty good - and that it was the way his character was written that was the problem, not the way he played him.

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TLCJR4LIFE" data-cite="TLCJR4LIFE" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>No they didn’t, they settled years later after using the gimmick for years. They settled because it made sense time and money wise to do so, same as any other reason. <p> </p><p> Lawsuits are expensive and time consuming, there is no actual legal precedent for the trademark of a gimmick. </p><p> The idea and concept as a whole is asinine, would be the equivalent of Dc suing everyone who made a character with Super Speed because it’s too similar to the Flash.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Pro wrestling companies own ring names, that’s basically it, and even that can be skirted around legally. See Warrior.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Wow, you simply can't accept being wrong. Are you by any chance a flat-earther?</p><p> </p><p> First of all, you are wrong in regards to Scott Hall; WCW had him tweak his mannerisms and speak pattern pretty much as soon as the lawsuit hit. Look it up.</p><p> </p><p> Secondly, you very conveniently skipped my other examples. <img alt=":rolleyes:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/rolleyes.png.4b097f4fbbe99ce5bcd5efbc1b773ed6.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> The fact that you think it's stupid that a company cannown a gimmick, and not just the name, does not change how the real life works.</p>

Sure, WCW settled - by giving in to WWF's demands, because WCW believed that they actually did violate WWF's trademarks. They previously changed John Tenta's name and gimmick from Earthquake-esque Avalanche to The Shark for the same reasons, as WWF threated legal action. And Ray Traylor had to drop his "The Boss" gimmick in WCW, being too similar his WWF Big Bossman name and gimmick.

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="shawn michaels" data-cite="shawn michaels" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yep, it was settled, mainly because WWE was legally in the right and WCW settled instead of outright losing.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Well, sort of. That's what WCW believed at the time, but it has since been uncovered that some of the mannerisms WWF accused WCW of stealing from the Razor Ramon persona was actually something Scott Hall used back in his first WCW run as well. Noone just bothered to dig into that at the time...</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Curiously enough, the terms of the settlement were what facilitated WCW's acquisition in 2001, as one of the terms of said settlement gave WWE the right to bid on WCW's assets if the company was liquidated. Which it was...and the rest is history.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Nah that's not why McMahon could buy it. McMahon could buy it pure and simple because Fusion Media, whom together with Bischoff was poised to buy it, withdrew their offer. McMahon was then the only interested party left. He first bought the trademark and logo and afterwards the TV library, in two separate deals.</p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TLCJR4LIFE" data-cite="TLCJR4LIFE" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>There’s no such thing as copyrighting a gimmick.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That's extremely incorrect. Do a search for why WWF sued - and won against - WCW for having Scott Hall use parts of his Razor Ramon gimmick for his persona in WCW.</p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="SirMichaelJordan" data-cite="SirMichaelJordan" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>If undertaker ever left WWE and went to another company, he’d either share some of the same character traits as the undertaker but using a different name and look or he would have been something similar to his bad ass gimmick. Neither of those would be as good as The Undertaker which brings me to the suggestion of being able to tie gimmicks to a company like you can currently do with a mask and alter egos. <p> </p><p> This way if Undertaker leave WWE for another company despite having a carbon copy of the undertaker traits, it would never be the undertaker because it will need to generate a new gimmick rating. If the gimmick was not tied to a company then he can debut the gimmick in any company without needing to generate a new gimmick rating.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yes, exactly.</p><p> </p><p> Perhaps only workers on written deals or working for companies of a certain size should be able to have their gimmicks copyrighted by a company, to avoid all the indies locking down succesful gimmicks.</p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Moe Hunter" data-cite="Moe Hunter" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>"The Undertaker" has had a whole bunch of different gimmicks as The Undertaker, though. The most obvious changes being the 2000-2004 period affectionately known as "American Badass" or "Biker Taker".<p> </p><p> Him not being able to use the name outside WWE wouldn't prevent him from getting over, nor using whatever gimmick he was running at the time.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I am aware that he also used a biker gimmick that, while successful, wasn't as successful as his deadman gimmick.</p><p> </p><p> And I completely disagree that he would get over as much and fast somewhere else without the deadman gimmick. Another company would have to come up with a new name/gimmick. Perhaps they could find a gimmick for him that would get just as over, perhaps not. But they'd have to venture into it. No way in hell would 'Mean' Mark Callous (his WCW name and gimmick) ever be as over as deadman Undertaker.</p>

<p>I would like to see this gimmick change tie in closely to alter egos.</p><p> </p><p> A guy like Ric Flair never had an alter ego; his 'Nature boy' gimmick should be a great gimmick attributed to his person. Fans love it and you basically won't ever have to change anything but his face/heel disposition.</p><p> </p><p> Then we have someone like The Undertaker; he should have a great gimmick tied to his 'The Undertaker' alter, which should be locked for WWF/E. If he goes somewhere else, they can't use this alter/gimmick and will have to come up with something new. This means that he probably won't straight away be as big of a star in, say WCW, TNA or AEW.</p><p> </p><p> Then we have Dwayne Johnson. As a modmaker, I'd like to set a future alter ego called 'The Rock' for him with a fantastic gimmick rating - but I don't want him to be able to use it straight from his debut. So perhaps we tie requirementa into him using it - like 85 mic ability and 85 star power.</p><p> </p><p> And then again, it should be possible to have future alter egos with a yet-to-be-decided gimmick rating.</p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="justtxyank" data-cite="justtxyank" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I like this proposed gimmick concept.<p> </p><p> My first concern is initial database work. Will mods need to go through and do this work for every worker?</p><p> </p><p> Also, is there going to be a way to incorporate "owning" a gimmick, gimmick overness, etc.? Thinking along the lines of "The Undertaker" or "Mankind" or "Kane" etc. gimmicks where they are company owned and the overness of the worker is largely tied to that gimmick.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> This is something I'd really like to know as well.</p><p> </p><p> Overall, I like the proposed changes. They're quite radical, and they may turn out not to work - but I'd say it's worth the gamble to try. Because let's be honest: gimmicks aren't really doing anything the way they work currently. A shake-up will be welcome.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="justtxyank" data-cite="justtxyank" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>One thing on the intro screens...<p> </p><p> Some of use a universal picture pack across mods. We'd need the game to recognize a different subfolder for intro screens I guess?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Another excellent question. I'd rather not have to use separate picture packs for my mods; nor would I want the same intro screens.</p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="tambourin81" data-cite="tambourin81" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Same. I guess a revamp of the gimmick system just wasn't in the cards.<p> </p><p> Maybe for TEW2024.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It's a huuuuuge shame, as gimmicks has always been a big part of what got a wrestler "over".</p><p> </p><p> Would Mark Calaway ever have become a huge star without clicking with the hugely successful Undertaker gimmick? Would Steve Austin without "Stone Cold"? Could Dwayne Johnson have main evented as "The Blue Chipper" Rocky Maivia?</p><p> </p><p> I had really hoped for some expansion to the alliance system as well.</p>

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Steven James" data-cite="Steven James" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>And if you're playing a WCW mod you can book that North Korean show, which got the highest attendance for a wrestling event in pro wrestling's history, though probably because everyone was forced to go.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yeah that event gave the word "papered" a whole new meaning.</p><p> </p><p> While it would of course be kind of cool to be able to do the Collision in Korea show, I'd say it would sort of be overkill to include a whole region in the game just for that.</p><p> </p><p> In the same vein, I imagine most people who aren't hardcore Ring Ka King fans will turn off India when playing...</p>

Solid changes today. Especially in regards to belt prestige.

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TeemuFoundation" data-cite="TeemuFoundation" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>They jumped for guaranteed money. There was no such concept in wrestling prior to Bischoff making it a thing in WCW.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That's a persistant rumor, but not true. WCW had guaranteed contracts before Bischoff. What made Bischoff's contracts for big names "special" was that they didn't have to work as many dates for the money as in WWF.</p>

That's not accurate at all; Hogan didn't jump ship, he was unemployed (at least wrestling-wise). And Hogan is the only one who actually had anything resembling creative control. Nash and Hall jumped ship not for more money, but for lesser dates (which can be considered as more money pr. date, but not more money overall). I love that contract expiry dates are now visible. While not particularly realistic, it's one of those things that really made sense to change in order to make TEW a better game.

I'll argue that they had to be incredible in the ring because they didn't necessarily have charisma, entertainment skills or looks to fall back on. Which fits into my formula perfectly. Batista had charisma, looks and grew into decent entertainment skills, Roman Reigns had charisma, looks and support from stubborn McMahon's, Ultimate Warrior had charisma, looks and entertainment skills. Again, all 3 examples fit in perfectly with my formula. But really, it all depends on how you choose to define "star quality".

I get where you're coming from, but I'd argue that there have been workers that got over largely (Bret Hart, Brian Danielson) or almost entirely (Chris Benoit) due to their in-ring capabilities. I agree that gimmicks should be restructured and factor into the concept of being a star in a different way, but that would be quite a drastic change - and I don't know if Ryland is looking for that at this point. To further build on my previous post on Star Quality, I think it should depend on these 4 categories (based on what we know about skills in 2020 so far): - Charisma (big enough to stand alone) - Entertainment (Microphone + Acting / 2) - In-ring abilities (Technical wrestling + Basics + Psychology + Selling + Athleticism / 5) - Looks (Whichever stat of Power, Sex Appeal and Menace is highest) Star Quality could then be the average of the 3 highest ranked of the above. Let me use Hulk Hogan from my 1994 mod as an example: The calculations would be like this: - Charisma 98 - Entertainment 89 (84 + 94 / 2) - In-ring abilities 63 (42 (as the highest technical stat) + 80 +83 +65 + 44 /5) - Looks 70 (70, 61, 59) Based on the above, where In-ring is eliminated as the weakest link, Hulk Hogan's Star Quality would be 98 + 89 + 70 / 3 = 86. Which is a bit low, due to the Looks category - but ideally, I'd also like to throw in a bonus to this category for size and muscles that would bring a guy like Hogan higher up. Something like + 20 % for being muscular or ripped and + 10 % for being light heavyweight +20 % for being heavyweight, + 25 % for being big heavyweight, + 30 % for super heavyweight and + 40 % for being a giant. These bonuses could be diminished over time, as wrestling evolved to care less about sizes. With the new bonuses on top, Hulk Hogan's Looks would end up at 98 (for being a muscular heavyweight) - and the final calculation would be 98 + 89 + 98 /3 = 95 for Hogan's Star Quality, which I think is pretty reasonable for 1994. 10 years earlier, when he had more power and was better on the microphone, his Star Quality would be higher.

There is no such thing as an intangible "star quality" trait that gets wrestlers over. Every single star has gotten oven due to a combination of the following skills: - charisma - entertainment skills - wrestling skills - looks There's not a single wrestler who got over because of anything but the above. If you want to keep "star quality", it should not be a single skill on it's own, but a calculated combination of the above. In game terms it could be the average of the 2-3 highest stats (with most of the above examples again being averages from a combination of stats).

I agree with this, I don't quite know what to think of this change yet myself. To me, there's a big difference between chain wrestling and submissions... This, so much this. I've been arguing for a long time that "star quality" should be scrapped completely, as "charisma" should pretty much be covering what SQ covers. But I know there are plenty of of people who disagree with that. "Colour commentary" and "microphone" should definately still be separate skills, as others mention. There has simply been so many real life examples of guys being great at one but sucking at another.

While I can certainly appreciate the change in moderation from deleting posts, I'm pretty dissappointed that people can seemingly still get away with freely bashing The Mod Squad (a group I have been and still am a proud member of) without consequence. I have been looking to the future, eargerly following the development diary and participating in the discussion thread from time to time, and was excited with the prospect of modding for TEW 2020 - but comments like the above still being fired and, even worse, seemingly being accepted by GDS management, makes me wonder if the intention is to run all of us off the boards completely. To paraphrase Rone Rivendale:

I like the tournament addition a lot. Sounds like playing a Japanese company instantly became 60 % more fun.

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46105" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>A worker's potential is now split up into different categories, allowing database makers a finer degree of control. The categories are Primary Skills, Mental Skills, Performance Skills, Fundamental Skills, Physical Abilities, Announcing, Colour, and Refereeing.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> An excellent addition that I have personally been longing after for a long time.</p>