Genadi
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Posts posted by Genadi
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Most need revision and different perspectives offered. I'm not saying this is how it was done but sure seems like one persons perception of what products consist of being represented. I disagree with many of the definitions and that's not mentioning the ones not included.
I suggest rethinking the process that led to these being represented in game as they are and changing that to avoid this situation. Game was planned to be released by now and the community is still being asked to test and fix products. If that alone doesn't indicate this feature is an issue and needs more thought I don't know what does.
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<p>Huge loss for the community, sorry to hear this you've been one of the most consistent and positive contributors here for a long time. If you ever get the itch again and need a base or help please don't hesitate to reach out.</p><p> </p><p>
I couldn't agree more about the editor. I've expressed my frustrations with it and won't reiterate any of those. The fact that members of the dev team were posting things like "Modding is easier now than ever" even after we were expressing our displeasure has been extremely disheartening. In reply to my criticism of the editor and new direction 20 has taken I've been met with condescending dismissive posts. Well here we have one of the biggest and best contributors to the game calling it quits. Not the first RW modder who's done so this week and won't be the last. </p><p> </p><p>
I haven't been raising the editor issue in some stupid attempt to cause drama or any other ridiculous narratives that have been framed. It's been in an effort to prevent exactly this. Sad day for GDS.</p>
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People are saying that the product issue is pushing you out? Are you still modding for 2020? (Fingers crossed)
Still honestly undecided. I am still treating things as I will be, working on processes and updating what I can before final patches and full release hits
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Not at all it was a generalisation that there are members here who are will take the opportunity to criticise regardless of what Adam does and will seemingly never be happy.
Nah it was an insult, don't be disingenuous
Last interaction we had you were kicking up a stink about people using data without permission. It destroyed my Mission Statement thread that was trying to encourage all mods to be freeware. Mod rules and drama were introduced as a result and many modders left as the community got toxic. Why I rolled my eyes when you called me self entitled. I was trying to let that all slide and move on with the '05 reference.
Back on topic - Gutted to hear none of the updates include custom products. Been delving into CV past week as I play test, it's been fun.
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From working on my own mod I don't really see the issue people are having with products....I cannot really see any there that don't fit a company in one way or another
I also don't really get the hyperbole around the editor it feels like people are just not giving themselves time to adjust to it.. lots of quicker ways to do things etc.
You say less customisation and less realism but even the attributes massively contradicts what you are saying as they can make characters from the real world more close to real life.
The thing I keep seeing mentioned is people saying they weren't consulted etc..the mod is not a community effort of course not everyone could be asked their opinion.
I just feel some people and their constant complaints about every facet are getting a little silly and very much coming off self entitled to me
Forlan calling people self entitled and starting drama, is it 2005 again?
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With all due respect, I disagree. From what I've looked at in the products and the extra customization options to further tweak them.
I disagree with a lot of what you posted but I've explained in detail in this thread why so I won't repeat myself. This part however.....
From reading the dev journal Adam has made this game with the mod community in mind from day one.Fictional mod community maybe, I can't speak on that because I'm not a part of it. I do however consider myself part of the RW mod community and could not disagree with this more. Less customisation, less realism and an editor that is far less intuitive to name a few of the major issues. None of my ideas were taken on board, no established RW modder I know was asked for perspective or opinion. All I've spoken to are baffled at some choices and agree that it's the worst editor the game has ever seen.
Reading the dev journal gives a lot of impressions, if that's one you got I can tell you first hand it's not been the case for myself and many others in the modding community.
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<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PGHJuice" data-cite="PGHJuice" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I will say I was VERY vocal on here with my displeasure of the game, but, I’m going to give credit where credit is due and salute Adam for all the hard work he’s put in this past week. We’ll probably hit 11 patches today and the amount of work he’s had to have done these past few days is unprecedented.<p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> With all due respect and full credit to Adam for his constant work this week, it's very much precedented. 2016 was very similar as was 2013 and the ones before. Demo has always been public BETA and daily patches are the norm. It was either 13 or 16 we had at least two I think maybe three (depending on your time zone) patches in just one day.</p><p> </p><p> I'm just saying (and again with all due respect) this rocky demo and subsequent daily patching was expected by many of us even after being assured by Adam almost weekly things were going great. This isn't the first time many have questioned and asked for improvement in transparency in the development process <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>
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I have my 16 thread bookmarked and have been checking it every few days, then remembered I made a new thread for 20
Sorry for lack of replies here, please shoot me a PM in Discord if I've not gotten back to you about something yet.
Update on modding - As with all releases I haven't gone hard in the editor yet. I like to get as much game time under my belt during demo and first few weeks of release to get the best understanding of new mechanics as possible. Add to that how much changes and often needs redoing during this period of the games lifecycle. I've been focussing on creating some new processes to streamline things which I hope to share soon as other modders may find them useful.
Thanks again for all the kind words and support, have this thread bookmarked now
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My wife has been hearing the same. Now every day she hears "I'm just gonna tweak this mod I converted...you know...get it like my last save." "I'm just gonna...I guess add another ten of the top 500 for each year." "I guess there's no reason I can't get more people's stats/popularity right. heh heh."
My wife's been telling me to stop staring at the editor and to put the cat outside and come to bed. Then I realise I don't have a wife, or a cat and I've been staring at the editor too long.
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Absolute rubbish. I'm posting new suggestions daily, I'm pointing out issues I have with the game or mistakes in the tech forum, I've joined in on discussions on MANY of the quality of life improvements required for the game to improve its playability in many of the relevant threads, as well as pointed out features I enjoy in its current state.
To just downgrade my contribution to simply *checks notes* "Love it, would pay for a BETA now" is pure ridiculousness.
3 Pages of your post history disagree
http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2413670&postcount=4
http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2414465&postcount=61
Oh and more time in another thread...
http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2412276&postcount=8
Twice in one 3 page thread you repeated your eagerness to buy as is. No one told you to stop repeating yourself because you were interfering with their morning coffee. That would be rude and stupid right?
Other gems include...
http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2414673&postcount=1742
http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2413709&postcount=1610
http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2414660&postcount=1738
Your post history is there for all to see. Claiming absolute rubbish and ridiculousness is odd considering how easily accessible they are.
Hopefully you see this now and can let people post their opinions without letting them know they're ruining your morning coffee.
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The same people aren't praising the same feature every single day like certain users are complaining about the same feature everyday. That's the difference.
Vast majority I've seen aren't the same people complaining, they're mostly new members who've signed up specifically to express their opinions. They've been dismissed and told they're repeating the same old complaint. Then several devs have turned around said, and I quote "It's only the vocal minority who don't like...". You don't see how that's an issue and will hinder development?
On the other hand other members are repeating themselves daily about how much they love it and want to buy it in it's current state. I've not seen one post telling them to stop repeating themselves or anyone dismissing their opinions. Nor should they.
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I realise this, and I realise how important it is to many, many people, but every morning I have to wade in and read five pages of people saying the same things over and over while I'm having my morning coffee... and nobody's saying anything that wasn't said a week ago.
It would be nice to see discussion about the changes to the momentum system and things that happened with the overnight beta patch update, but these things get buried in the shuffle of the usual suspects shouting at each other over, calling each other strawmen and arguing about a functionality that may or may not be able to be implemented.
I have to wade through yourself and others repeating daily "Love it, would pay for a BETA now". Yet no ones complained about that and the praise being repeated. But people need to stop voicing their opinions so your morning coffee is more enjoyable. Incredible attitude.
I've mentioned twice in this thread can we please stick to the topics at hand and twice in the past two days you've gone after members posting instead. This behaviour shouldn't be condoned, it adds nothing to the forums or game development. How you're left to post this stuff freely while valid criticism that breaks no rules is deleted baffles me.
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why post an opinion if you don’t want to discuss it with others?
Example B ^^^
No one said that.
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I'm trying to understand what you mean by this post. Are you hungry? Thirsty? Did you sleep well last night??
Example A ^^^
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Do we need a new thread titled "Peoples unqualified psychoanalysis of BETA reaction comments"? These posts are close to half of this thread and offer nothing but sparking needless, distracting arguments.
Can we please save this for elsewhere, surely you guys realise the importance of a thread like this at this stage of 20's development.
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What editor it's in doesn't really make a difference when it all comes down to using it in game anyway. People just seem turned off from even attempting to utilize the current system for varying reasons most of which seem overblown in my opinion.. but I don't see any of those folks changing their stance on it either so it is what it is I suppose. .
Either way I hope the finished product is enjoyable for as many people as possible.
Can this thread please stick to being a BETA reaction thread and not a comment reaction thread. This thread is filled with "I don't understand this persons opinion" and "Their reasons and or opinions are overblown".
This dismissive nature is unhealthy. This thread was made specifically for people to share their reaction to BETA, it should be encouraged not made more difficult.
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Really liking some of the new additions but there are two major deal breakers at the moment. I know these have been discussed and I'm hoping the extended BETA will see them addressed.
1) The UI. I've tried for nights now to get used to it and I can't. Some windows require snap closing, others back buttons and are overall not intuitive. The skins have made it much easier on the eyes but it's still really scattered and there doesn't feel to be a uniformed approach when navigating. The editor UI feels just as bad as the games UI, some screens are compressed when they should be expanded and others the opposite. My biggest gripe by far is the Attributes list, the current dropdown box for all the options is the worse way I can think of to have to edit these.
2) Custom products, my biggest issue with this is how it doesn't take into account the future. If I start a present day mod I want to be able to create a product that hasn't been seen before, even if it's a slight variation of an existing one. Under the current system creativity is stifled and I really dislike that. I am never in favour of options being removed.
I've supported and purchased every TEW release since 04, I fear this may be the first of the series that loses my interest. I hope that's not the case and these two issues are looked at, I completely understand they're irrelevant to many but personally they're deal breakers. I hope this post is received as it's intended which is to provide constructive feedback.
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Here's a reminder to those that have been saying that Adam, for some reason, wants to punish people for playing TEW a certain way. ….. That's just silly.
Adam - "This turned the feature into a crutch for extremely lazy, brain-dead play. Spotting serious decline now needs to be done by properly engaging with the game...."
Yeah I'm done, peace out. Genadi
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This is why I respect you so much, Genadi. Thank you for saying (in a polite way, I may add), what a lot of us are thinking.
I thought I was polite too but I've been given a warning for being " unflattering and inflammatory", that post was quoted as being the reason. Well I've tried to bring issues to light I feel are vital to the health of TEW as best I can.
At the risk of being banned again for being "inflammatory" or "unflattering" I won't be posting again. GL TEW, I hope you improve
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Unfortunately, that comes with the territory. Like, when Cyberpunk ships, there will be people who will complain that it doesn't run on their baked potato PCs and the testing team is a bunch of elitists because they run computers that didn't ship with Windows Vista installed. The day one patch will lead to moaning because "it should've been fixed already", despite the game being delayed FOUR TIMES. We've already been spoken to in preparation. People will pan you because you didn't have their specific interests in mind. The "incompetent QA" narrative is common. Wrong, but common. Just know that you did what was asked to the best of your ability. No team, no matter how large, is going to catch every bug in a piece of software. No team, no matter how large, is going to produce a feature set that appeals to everyone. But the ad hominems are par for the course.
This is such a stretch and awful comparison.
This is a more fair comparison in context of the point being raised....
Day one of Cyberpunk launch, devs refused to share any preview screens or footage for over a year of development. Game launches and the colours burn peoples retinas. People complain on forums about awful graphical design and are insulted and shouted down for "attacking devs personally".
Honestly this victim angle you guys seem to be reaching for is the opposite approach of what's needed right now. Own it, put your hand up and own the mistakes. Good game developers do.
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With all due respect, I'm on the testing team.
I'm not, and never have been, a moderator of this board (or even a particularly active member). Before this week, I probably couldn't have told you who the moderators on this board even were.
In terms of being a collaborator, or part of Adam Ryland's "inner circle" - before he asked me to be part of this project, I'm not sure we'd ever exchanged more than a few words when we'd happened to be in the same thread on a forum.
From my understanding, I was asked to be part of the team for exactly the reasons you're suggesting - a combination of knowledge of wrestling, and insight into the mechanics of the game as displayed through my posts on here and elsewhere. As other people are pointing out how many past versions they've played in defence of their position, I will say now that I've been playing EW games since EW9000 twenty (!) years ago.
I can only speak for myself, but I assume a similar story lies behind other members of the testing team as well. And it's neither helpful nor pleasant to see multiple posters on this board crafting a narrative of the team as being nothing but yes men, or jumping to conclusions as to what the testing process entailed, then berating people based on that assumption.
If there are differences of opinion on quality from the testing team to some of the players, the majority will be just that - opinion. As someone, I believe Arlie, mentioned though, the testing team have necessarily had longer to see the new UI develop and longer to get used to it, rather than being "thrown in at the deep end" and having a lot of change presented to us all at once on release day.
That might indicate that, as I believe, the vast majority of issues people are having with the game are little more than the learning curve that will always be part and parcel of finding your way around an extremely complex game, or it may mean that many of us on the team have perhaps been too close to the project as it developed to recognise some issues that other users might have had with it. The truth perhaps lies somewhere in the middle, it's just a matter of which angle you're looking at it from.
Ultimately, though, I just really wanted to step in and object to the narrative that's forming of Adam Ryland having somehow surrounded himself with a testing team made up of nothing but close confidantes and yes men. It's a narrative that's neither true nor useful in moving forward, and does a disservice to many, many hours of work that have gone into the development of the game over the past two years or so - from the very early conceptual stages, right through to release.
It's nothing but jumping to unfounded conclusions and is in its way just as harmful and toxic a response as the flaming and overt name calling that reflected so badly on this forum over the past number of days.
Perception is important, the perception for many is and has been for a long time Adam surrounds himself with Yes men. I understand this is frustrating for Adam and his dev team but it's not unwarranted. Dating back to EWB some on the dev team have been dismissive and often passive aggressive / condescending when dealing with the paying public. To add to this most of the dev team are his long time circle, for years I've witnessed thousands of different members come and go, pleading to help with the development side and literally ignored.
You guys thinking you're not yes men I liken to Fox News hosts. I genuinely don't think you all tow the line out of some blind loyalty but you're clearly only in that team in the first place because you think a certain way, that way happens to be the Adam way which seems to only further his determination to push his version of a wrestling world upon us. I've not seen one new dev member added to that team that's disagreed with Adam or his outlook on wrestling in over 17 years of following the series. This is a serious issue and it's culminated in a demo that shows how out of touch with the community the series has become.
You call it a narrative, I prefer perception because many people think this is the case and for good reason. Many more instances I can cite that further show why many think this but I fear that will derail the point, happy to provide more if you like though.
Transparency is vital also, some insight into the dev process for example. As it stands these are the three scenarios that seem to have taken place but we've not been told so I'm guessing...
A) Testers saw things and told Adam but he ignored them (This is a major problem)
B) Testers saw things and didn't tell Adam (This is a major problem)
C) Testers didn't see things (This is a major problem)
Instead of owning it and raising your hands admitting to one of these three scenarios and addressing that major problem, a lot of the testers seem to be on the forums going on the attack in reply to an attack. This isn't healthy or smart practice, not for anyone and most importantly the game.
Maybe the entire development process needs rethinking.
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Haha I’m pretty sure there’s more people willing to put time and energy into politics than “what if WCW didn’t ruin Bret Hart”
Edit - Thought you were replying to me. I'm out for the night, tried to make a point that seems lost now. Hope things improve this week
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It’s not a simulator but you people are talking about taking this wrasslin simulator game to Steam. Steam users aren’t gonna get this stuff lol they’ll tear it to pieces even if you add all these customization features. There’s just too much detail demanded by the niche audience
Adam himself calls it a wrestling simulator so I'm not sure why you're saying that
Also.... https://store.steampowered.com/app/529700/Total_Extreme_Wrestling_2013/
Thread is really starting to derail again, lets try to stay on topic.
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There have been personal attacks on the artists, testers and Adam. Most have been deleted, but there was plenty of toxicity that wasn’t valid criticism.
Clearly unacceptable, no one with a sound mind would disagree. It's going both ways though as I pointed out. The post above yours calls people nuts. I've also seen several moderators and members of the TEW dev team make comments like "People who hate the UI are a vocal minority and all happen to be new members".... This isn't healthy moderation or development. It's combative, dismissive and counterproductive.
In my experience the best way to counter combativeness isn't with more combativeness. This is such a crucial time in TEW's development cycle. Feelings and emotions are all distractions, I understand why they're a part of this but if everyone could take a step back for a moment and put things into perspective while trying to understand their opponents PoV maybe we'd have a better discourse all around.
TEW2020 Product Suggestion Thread
in Total Extreme Wrestling 2020 Suggestions
Posted
If you wanted a "real" challenge you'd pick a custom product with the most penalties
As others have pointed out, no one wants to limit your playstyle, it's yourself and others who have said like the post above you want to limit others.