Why is it graphics = great diary here?

[Dragonmack]

Probably why writers don't see more negative feedback or "constructive" criticism is that if they don't like part or all of a diary they are reading, they simply stop reading it as there are a lot of diaries out there competing for attention. I personally don't mind feedback of any kind as someone who posts either a positive or negative suggestion at least cared enough about your work to take time to comment on it. Case in point, I recently had some one say they would like to see a smoother, easier to read layout of my show writeups. I took that as constructive criticism and a way to improve my writeups so that people reading it would enjoy it more. While I, and probably most of the writers here, post a diary becuase we like the game and like putting our own spin on wrestling, whether real or cornellverse, ultimately if no one is reading it, then we feel as if we are wasting our time and effort. I personally don't use graphics (being too lazy to take the time to learn photoshop or cutting and pasting) but other people who have those skills probably use them to try to capture reader interest as we all would probably like to see feedback to know that people actually care about the work and effort that goes into creating and maintaining a diary.

[Irish Wolf]

[QUOTE=Dragonmack;266768] personally don't use graphics (being too lazy to take the time to learn photoshop or cutting and pasting) but other people who have those skills probably use them to try to capture reader interest as we all would probably like to see feedback to know that people actually care about the work and effort that goes into creating and maintaining a diary.[/QUOTE] I find that sometimes with your diary (which I love as I'm obviously immersed in the story because I post more than just predictions) that I have to go into TEW to take a look at the characters so I can remember what they look like and what kind of wrestlers they are. This isn't really a bad thing hell I have TEW open most times when I'm at home. But I'm just as lazy as you are and it's not to tough to use the headshots that the characters already have and insert them into your diary. That being said don't change on my account like I said any diary where not only post who I think will win but why is a diary I follow religously. Another constructive critisism since we're saying we don't get enough. I find it easier to follow diaries that get a show post once or twice a day. I don't always have internet access at work so if you post five shows a day I get lost quickly. That doesn't mena be like me and sometimes only post once a week. Although I've been better at that recently untill I had to play catch up after losing my game.

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=Dragonmack;266768]Probably why writers don't see more negative feedback or "constructive" criticism is that if they don't like part or all of a diary they are reading, they simply stop reading it as there are a lot of diaries out there competing for attention. I personally don't mind feedback of any kind as someone who posts either a positive or negative suggestion at least cared enough about your work to take time to comment on it. Case in point, I recently had some one say they would like to see a smoother, easier to read layout of my show writeups. I took that as constructive criticism and a way to improve my writeups so that people reading it would enjoy it more. While I, and probably most of the writers here, post a diary becuase we like the game and like putting our own spin on wrestling, whether real or cornellverse, ultimately if no one is reading it, then we feel as if we are wasting our time and effort. I personally don't use graphics (being too lazy to take the time to learn photoshop or cutting and pasting) but other people who have those skills probably use them to try to capture reader interest as we all would probably like to see feedback to know that people actually care about the work and effort that goes into creating and maintaining a diary.[/QUOTE] I'll confess something. I generally refrain from leaving comments because I don't always see where things are going. As a diary writer, I know where I'm taking a story but the readers (hopefully) don't. So if I whined in Apu's diary about him jobbing Megumi Nakajima (*shakes fist*) or complained in Michael Wayne's diary about Nikki Roxx's lack of a push, it would be shortsighted of me because I don't know the whole story. That's also why I generally don't do predictions. I figure, if I can correctly guess the winner of a match, I've either guessed the outcome of the storyline (which can be bad) or I'm simply playing favorites. But given the two dozen diaries I regularly check, I could jack my post count to the moon if I left feedback on all of 'em. Hmmm.........feedback inc. :p

[Irish Wolf]

[QUOTE=Remianen;266790]I'll confess something. I generally refrain from leaving comments because I don't always see where things are going. As a diary writer, I know where I'm taking a story but the readers (hopefully) don't. So if I whined in Apu's diary about him jobbing Megumi Nakajima (*shakes fist*) or complained in Michael Wayne's diary about Nikki Roxx's lack of a push, it would be shortsighted of me because I don't know the whole story. That's also why I generally don't do predictions. I figure, if I can correctly guess the winner of a match, I've either guessed the outcome of the storyline (which can be bad) or I'm simply playing favorites. But given the two dozen diaries I regularly check, I could jack my post count to the moon if I left feedback on all of 'em. Hmmm.........feedback inc. :p[/QUOTE] Megumi's on a winning streak now. Although all her matches have sucked but she's winning. So no more fist shaking out of you :P But sure leave feedback think of it like being a fan holding up a sign for your favorite worker. One of the main problems with actual wrestling is the people stop watching because they don't always see something they want. If WWE or TNA occassional ran a fued specifically from viewer feedback people may not whine as much.

[Emark]

Since I am not a diary writer, only a reader, I only post predictions and positive feedback reagarding the storylines. As it is, I read the diaries that interest me. Whether or not they have graphics makes no difference whatsoever. The ones I read are solely based on the fact I can connect with that writer because of the writing, not the bells and whistles.

[Payne]

The answer to the question is this: Simply because I am awesome!!! No, really, it's just a way to break up about 1500 to 2000 words of text. And, as someone put before, a good way to bookmark yourself if you get distracted. Also, it shows that the Diary Writer is trying to go out of their way to make the diary look a little more like a graphic novel, as opposed to a boring book. That's my view.

[G-Prime]

[QUOTE=Payne;266828]Simply because I am awesome!!! [/QUOTE] The man makes a valid point.

[Beeker]

I feel like I need to weigh in here. I've written diaries but I've lost my interest in real wrestling which is way I enjoy the CVerse stuff. That's one of the reasons I took up the challenge of the ITCs, and I'm going to make a very small claim that my ITCs were better than anyone elses. Although full marks to other multiple ITCers. I enjoyed the ITC format because I could be constructive in my criticism. And while I don't agree with Vitamin E's stance on "Bringing Quality..." because he's bringing negativity, which isn't constructive. It's hard to balance the positive and the negative in a response. I agree that graphics heavy diaries rarely succeed, but at the same time including graphics doesn't immediately mean 'omg teh suck!' I've been to EWB, and had a successful diary there, EWB has more writers but the percentage of quality to crap is just about the same as GDS. The GDS boards are a more polite community, sometimes too polite. When I post in a diary, I try to give both support and suggestions, because *just* Good Show! isn't constructive. When I was writing my diary, I wanted more. No one here (or at EWB for that matter) is perfect. Everyone can improve. There is no magic formula, length, text to graphic ratio. Just like in wrestling there is no 'perfect wrestler' or 'perfect promotion.' That's the inherent strength of wrestling. Someone love HHH, Hogan, Foley, Khali, Cena, Christian, Edge, Shark Boy (someone must!) as their all time favourite. Which is what makes wrestling great. Diaries are exactly the same way. I love NordVolf's attention to detail and out of character stuff and wonderful verbosity, yet Clarity's 'by the lines' terse retelling of the month that was captures my attention and is an easy read. In between there, you've got the good with the bad. Graphics will not save a diary, good writing will. Something some people here would do well to remember. So to sum up, on one hand VE is spot on with his complaints of graphics-a-go-go but other's have pointed (correctly) that text alone doesn't make a great diary. There's an intangible balance that each writer must find. And VE is also incorrect that negative bashing will improve the dynasties here, but constructive criticism would be a definite boon to all the writers. How a writer takes, or ignores, that criticism is up to them. If this topic gets more people active in diaries, giving more constructive feedback, then VE has already made a major step in bringing quality to the boards.

[theoutlaw321]

[QUOTE=G-Prime;266832]The man makes a valid point.[/QUOTE] I thought he said he hated you?

[Monkeypox]

[QUOTE=Payne;266828]The answer to the question is this: Simply because I am awesome!!! No, really, it's just a way to break up about 1500 to 2000 words of text. And, as someone put before, a good way to bookmark yourself if you get distracted. Also, it shows that the Diary Writer is trying to go out of their way to make the diary look a little more like a graphic novel, as opposed to a boring book. That's my view.[/QUOTE] ... And that's the View From Here. :D

[theoutlaw321]

[QUOTE=Monkeypox;266838]... And that's the View From Here. :D[/QUOTE] I started to do it, but I had a feeling that you would want to. ;)

[tristram]

The problem is, sometimes graphics don't tell the story that words do. Then again, sometimes they do, enjoy Vitamin [CENTER][IMG]http://itu.dk/people/jcv/verture/bushuncensored.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]

[Payne]

[QUOTE=Monkeypox;266838]... And that's the View From Here. :D[/QUOTE] I was going to do that, but I thought it would be too cliche!

[The Ego]

Vitamin E.....This guys a tosser. No wonder this forum has gone south, like VE's man breasts, with Topics like this. The guys as creative as a bag of rusty spanners. He has as much personality as an un-used condom, and he has done nothing but dragged this forum down to even depths like EWB. Enough is enough, and its time for change.

[Beeker]

[QUOTE=The Ego;266875]Vitamin E.....This guys a tosser. No wonder this forum has gone south, like VE's man breasts, with Topics like this. The guys as creative as a bag of rusty spanners. He has as much personality as an un-used condom, and he has done nothing but dragged this forum down to even depths like EWB. Enough is enough, and its time for change.[/QUOTE] I knew eventually you'd wade in here Ego... And I'll happily be the first to say this. Vitamin E brings a lot more to these forums than you do. He constructed an observation and laid it out and allowed the boards to discuss it. With your childish, immature response (which is exactly what I'd expect from you) you reward VE with the higher ground. So while other people have debated this with intellect and logic, your contribution is less than nothing, so scurry back to your horribly written and gimmicked and booked layers of tripe and allow the adults to continue the discussion. Good boy, go play with your imaginary friend.

[theoutlaw321]

Ron Simmons walks around the corner and pauses....... [SIZE="7"][B]Damn![/B][/SIZE]

[The Ego]

Beeker, Tissue?

[Tigerkinney]

[quote=Beeker;266878]I knew eventually you'd wade in here Ego... And I'll happily be the first to say this. Vitamin E brings a lot more to these forums than you do. He constructed an observation and laid it out and allowed the boards to discuss it. With your childish, immature response (which is exactly what I'd expect from you) you reward VE with the higher ground.[/quote] I agree with this, whilst Vitamin-E is clearly a bit up himself and feels that he is god's gift to writing fantasy wrestling diaries: 'I'M HERE TO BRING QUALITY TO THE DIARY FORUMS' :rolleyes: He did at-least put his point across in an articulate manner and the majority of the folks on here responded to his issues with well thought out responses. Going back to a point Sebsplex brought up....I'd sooner see constructive criticism than the anonymous one-star rating. That really is irritatating. [B]To Summarise the points we agree with brought up by Vitamin-E[/B] Lots of graphics does not necessarily make a good diary. There is nothing wrong with giving constructive criticism [B]What we don't agree with:[/B] Putting graphics in your diary does not necessarily make it a bad one either. There is no perfect formula to writing a diary and the writer should write in the style they are comfortable in. If people want to leave simplistic 'This diary is great' feedback then there should be nothing to stop them doing that either. Just as people should be free to leave critical feedback, people should be free to leave non-critical feedback. CX or EWB or whatever other board he bangs on about might produce better diaries in Vitamin E's opinion, but that's his opinion.

[panix04]

[QUOTE]Vitamin E brings a lot more to these forums than you do. He constructed an observation and laid it out and allowed the boards to discuss it. [/QUOTE] I dis-agree, VE has started one diary that lasted one post, has another diary and has gone onto several people's diarys and flamed them, whereas ego has posted several well read diarys and has always been genrally positive in peoples diarys (with a few exceptions with people he has issues with, but thats another topic [QUOTE]So while other people have debated this with intellect and logic, your contribution is less than nothing, so scurry back to your horribly written and gimmicked and booked layers of tripe and allow the adults to continue the discussion.[/QUOTE] You criticise somebody for being immature and come up with this? I'm not suprised the Ego had lashed out, i read the stuff VE posted on my diary and was real angry. [QUOTE]Good boy, go play with your imaginary friend.[/QUOTE] I am Ego's friend and i am certainly not imaginary! I would assume that you are in fact the one with imaginary friends....they are real people, you just imagine they are your friends.* *that last bit seemed really nasty, it wasn't supposed to be, i just love that line and rarely get to use it. :D I still think that VE is in the wrong in his methods though.

[G-Prime]

Damn Ego, you can't get into an argument without getting personal, can you?

[The Ego]

Nope, because with this guy it is personal. He hasnt got the correct attitude for a debate on purely the wrestling dynasties....heck neither have i, but i dont pretend to. The guys a twat, and just sends everything downhill. Conversations, diaries, topics, forums. Just no one else has the lead in their pencil to stick up to him. So what, if people wanna use pictures, or not. Who the hell cares? If you cant do pictures, dont slag those off who can, just keep quiet.

[flamebrain]

[QUOTE=markish;266730]We're still not getting a silver trophy, one way or another.[/QUOTE] We don't?! That's what got me started! :eek: Anyway, since things have shifted to feedback I throw a ha'penny in again. I read a few diaries on here but don't really have much to say about them. I give predictions and maybe add reasoning behind them but not much else unless its something I feel I have something to say about such as Nevermore's Agatha Christie impersonation :). It can be frustrating when you don't get comments, not because your not getting recognition or whatever but sometimes I just want to know if I'm doing things right or not. I'm on my first diary and sometimes ask if anyone has any advice or suggestions on how to improve what I'm doing but don't get any response (which must mean there needs to be improvement!), as it is, I've just changed things as I went along and wound up with a style/format tailored to my own tastes as opposed to that of anyone reading. I doubt I'd bend over backwards to do things in a way that suits others but I'm always open to comprimise if it would make my work any easier to digest.

[Guest Vitamin E]

See, i think people are confused on how I give feedback. When I leave feedback, it is mostly stating things I dont like. Unless the diary is REALLY bad, I dont go into a diary with the mindset of "this diary suck ****tard! quit because you have no talent!". Sorry if it comes off that way, but that isnt my intention. I also use the phrase "negative feedback" to differentiate between "I didnt like..." and positive feedback of "I liked...". While people may think that if someone doesnt like a diary/doesnt like part of a diary should just leave the diary, I dont do that. If I see a diary that has an interesting backstory or timeframe that I think could be booked well and/or has interesting feuds, I'll post in it with the things I dont like as a way to try and get the writer to improve or change it up. After that if the writer does or doesnt is up to him/her. I wont hassle the person by saying "Why havent you changed this? Why? HUH?! WHY HAVENT YOU CHANGED THIS YET?!?!" I'll continue to read for a bit to see if anything DOES change, and will slowly cut back on reading after a while. I do that with every diary though. I usually cut back on reading a diary once it starts gaining steam as Im more into reading diaries that are newer. There are occasions where I continue reading a diary that has a few pages, though. Just like people have their opinion of diaries, shouildnt I have mine as well? Even if the only opinions I post are the things I DONT like? Keep in mind, just because I post something I dont like in a diary doesnt mean there isnt anything I like either, unless I plain out say "there is nothing I like here". Only reason I dont make it known is because I cant really get as detailed with talking about something I like as I can for something I dont like. If people get THAT upset with being left negative feedback, then that really only further enhances my thought that the only feedback that is "allowed" here is positive "love this! you got a reader!" feedback. Obviously by allowed I dont mean as in it is an actual rule or anything. Panix, yes, some of what I said in your diary wasnt exactly constructive. At the same time, though, I did leave my opinion on your draft and everything. I apologize for not really being as constructive as I could have, and I will read your SD! show to be more constructive. My main gripes with your diary thus far are only the draft section/match section thing you had for RAW as personally the draft should be broken up with matches in between so that fans arent just sitting there for an hour listening to people say who goes to what show and give them some excitement ect, the first RAW taking up six posts which I just think isnt needed because a show really shouldnt take more than one post (unless there one post can't contain an entire show in which case you really have no choice), and the grouped (tag/women/cruiser) draft thing. Those are only three things from one show, and obviously only two things that wont happen again (the draft taking an hour and the grouped draft thing). The show taking up 6 posts thing Ill have to wait until SD! for, but you said you were changing the format or something for the SD! show. But again, I leave negative feedback because I can go into more detail with it and I personally feel it can help a writer out by letting them know things the reader DOESNT like as opposed to positive feedback. Not sure if this was an actual statement someone said against me back on the first page, but I dont care if so and so has more readers/posts in his diary than me. Im not one to get jealous over that. Im also not one that will hold a grudge against someone and let that affect my opinion of a diary. For example, if Ego has a fantastic show and I read it and cant find anything wrong with it, I won't put it down just because there is some issue between us. Right now I should note the reason I take diaries so 'seriously' is because there are some diaries that have potential, have a good premise, ect, but lack in actual writing and I want that to improve so not only can it remain good to current readers, but so it can also be even better for new readers. Also, what I am talking about with graphics is when people use them for every little thing. Like at the beginning of the show they have a picture of JR and Lawler, followed by text of what they say, graphic of a wrestler arriving plus text, then graphics of JR and Lawler again. I'm not talking about pictures of wrestlers in a match or anything that little for the most part. I dont like graphics being used in diaries just because I dont see the big deal about them. Yes, while they may break the show up or whatever for some people, they just clutter things up (especially for matches that have a lot of competitors) and they dont really break things up or make things shorter or anything to me. I use graphics in my diary, but VERY rarely. The only graphics I use is a show logo and a small graphic for title matches. They dont add anything, but it's eye candy used sparingly. In response to shipshirt, The Ego left feedback not even associated to the writing of my diary. All he did was talk about how my diary doesnt use graphics and that I had nothing to offer people (which leads to me thinking that if a diary doesnt have graphics then it cant be good to him even if it has the best writing ever), finishing off with "sorry big boy". Had he actually left feedback about a show instead of posting in my diary to diss my lack of graphics after I left negative feedback in his diary, I would have taken his feedback better. Which brings me to the point of him having a problem with me because I left negative feedback in his diary. Now, Im not going to go and attack him with calling him an ******* or something because I wont go down to his level. I mean, he can call me a tosser, say I have manbreasts in the most online attack fashion all he wants because in the end, he doesnt know me and is plain and simple acting out on his rage of me leaving him negative feedback. He is acting like some newbs at forums that if you leave negative feedback they go "ohz yeah wells itz mine so blah leave if you donts like ti!". He asks Beeker if he wants a tissue, but honestly I tihnk Ego needs a tissue if he says the thing between me and him is "personal" when the only thing I did to him was leave negative feedback in his diary. Here's the link to my post in his diary: [url]http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showpost.php?p=253799&postcount=174[/url]. Even after apologizing to me for being out of order and that then appreciating my comments he still has some problem with me. I dont care if he does or what it's about. He can have his problem all he wants. About my location, ect. I had that stuff from when I originally joined this board, back in 2005. I never changed it because I havent been around here in a while and forgot about that stuff.

[Payne]

Hey, VE, feel bad for me! I am doing most of the graphics, lol!!!

[G-Prime]

[QUOTE=Vitamin E;266959]See, i think people are confused on how I give feedback. When I leave feedback, it is mostly stating things I dont like. Unless the diary is REALLY bad, I dont go into a diary with the mindset of "this diary suck ****tard! quit because you have no talent!". Sorry if it comes off that way, but that isnt my intention. I also use the phrase "negative feedback" to differentiate between "I didnt like..." and positive feedback of "I liked...". While people may think that if someone doesnt like a diary/doesnt like part of a diary should just leave the diary, I dont do that. If I see a diary that has an interesting backstory or timeframe that I think could be booked well and/or has interesting feuds, I'll post in it with the things I dont like as a way to try and get the writer to improve or change it up. After that if the writer does or doesnt is up to him/her. I wont hassle the person by saying "Why havent you changed this? Why? HUH?! WHY HAVENT YOU CHANGED THIS YET?!?!" I'll continue to read for a bit to see if anything DOES change, and will slowly cut back on reading after a while. I do that with every diary though. I usually cut back on reading a diary once it starts gaining steam as Im more into reading diaries that are newer. There are occasions where I continue reading a diary that has a few pages, though. Just like people have their opinion of diaries, shouildnt I have mine as well? Even if the only opinions I post are the things I DONT like? Keep in mind, just because I post something I dont like in a diary doesnt mean there isnt anything I like either, unless I plain out say "there is nothing I like here". Only reason I dont make it known is because I cant really get as detailed with talking about something I like as I can for something I dont like. If people get THAT upset with being left negative feedback, then that really only further enhances my thought that the only feedback that is "allowed" here is positive "love this! you got a reader!" feedback. Obviously by allowed I dont mean as in it is an actual rule or anything. Panix, yes, some of what I said in your diary wasnt exactly constructive. At the same time, though, I did leave my opinion on your draft and everything. I apologize for not really being as constructive as I could have, and I will read your SD! show to be more constructive. My main gripes with your diary thus far are only the draft section/match section thing you had for RAW as personally the draft should be broken up with matches in between so that fans arent just sitting there for an hour listening to people say who goes to what show and give them some excitement ect, the first RAW taking up six posts which I just think isnt needed because a show really shouldnt take more than one post (unless there one post can't contain an entire show in which case you really have no choice), and the grouped (tag/women/cruiser) draft thing. Those are only three things from one show, and obviously only two things that wont happen again (the draft taking an hour and the grouped draft thing). The show taking up 6 posts thing Ill have to wait until SD! for, but you said you were changing the format or something for the SD! show. But again, I leave negative feedback because I can go into more detail with it and I personally feel it can help a writer out by letting them know things the reader DOESNT like as opposed to positive feedback. Not sure if this was an actual statement someone said against me back on the first page, but I dont care if so and so has more readers/posts in his diary than me. Im not one to get jealous over that. Im also not one that will hold a grudge against someone and let that affect my opinion of a diary. For example, if Ego has a fantastic show and I read it and cant find anything wrong with it, I won't put it down just because there is some issue between us. Right now I should note the reason I take diaries so 'seriously' is because there are some diaries that have potential, have a good premise, ect, but lack in actual writing and I want that to improve so not only can it remain good to current readers, but so it can also be even better for new readers. Also, what I am talking about with graphics is when people use them for every little thing. Like at the beginning of the show they have a picture of JR and Lawler, followed by text of what they say, graphic of a wrestler arriving plus text, then graphics of JR and Lawler again. I'm not talking about pictures of wrestlers in a match or anything that little for the most part. I dont like graphics being used in diaries just because I dont see the big deal about them. Yes, while they may break the show up or whatever for some people, they just clutter things up (especially for matches that have a lot of competitors) and they dont really break things up or make things shorter or anything to me. I use graphics in my diary, but VERY rarely. The only graphics I use is a show logo and a small graphic for title matches. They dont add anything, but it's eye candy used sparingly. In response to shipshirt, The Ego left feedback not even associated to the writing of my diary. All he did was talk about how my diary doesnt use graphics and that I had nothing to offer people (which leads to me thinking that if a diary doesnt have graphics then it cant be good to him even if it has the best writing ever), finishing off with "sorry big boy". Had he actually left feedback about a show instead of posting in my diary to diss my lack of graphics after I left negative feedback in his diary, I would have taken his feedback better. Which brings me to the point of him having a problem with me because I left negative feedback in his diary. Now, Im not going to go and attack him with calling him an ******* or something because I wont go down to his level. I mean, he can call me a tosser, say I have manbreasts in the most online attack fashion all he wants because in the end, he doesnt know me and is plain and simple acting out on his rage of me leaving him negative feedback. He is acting like some newbs at forums that if you leave negative feedback they go "ohz yeah wells itz mine so blah leave if you donts like ti!". He asks Beeker if he wants a tissue, but honestly I tihnk Ego needs a tissue if he says the thing between me and him is "personal" when the only thing I did to him was leave negative feedback in his diary. Here's the link to my post in his diary: [url]http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showpost.php?p=253799&postcount=174[/url]. Even after apologizing to me for being out of order and that then appreciating my comments he still has some problem with me. I dont care if he does or what it's about. He can have his problem all he wants. About my location, ect. I had that stuff from when I originally joined this board, back in 2005. I never changed it because I havent been around here in a while and forgot about that stuff.[/QUOTE] That's a lot of text... Perhaps some graphics to break it up?