Cult vs. Mainstream

[Sudo_Nym]

Now that I've started playing around with the editor and messing around with my own promotions, I have some questions about the different Promotion types. Here's my assumptions: Let's say I open a promotion with Hardcore as the Key Feature, and everything else set to none. I assume this means that I'll attract two types of fans: Hardcore specific fans, who love hardcore matchs and come to my shows because I say I'm a hardcore fed. I also assume I'll get some number of generic fans, who come because they just want to watch some wrestling, and don't have a strong preference. Now say I increase Cult to Key Feature, so I have Cult and Hardcore. I assume this means I'm trying to appeal specifically to the Hardcore fans, without much concern to all other fans. I assume this means that the generic fans will generally stay away from my show; but, in exchange, I'll be attracting fans who are fanatical for the Hardcore style. I also assume this means that they will be incredibly loyal and dependable so long as I stay faithful to their style- but also that they won't hesitate to tell me where to stick it when they see something they don't like. And finally, say instead of Cult, I go Mainstream and Hardcore. Now, I'm still a hardcore promotion, but I twist around the product to try to appeal to a wider base- one that might not care so much that I'm hardcore, but uses that as a backdrop for the angles and storylines that they came to see. I assume this means I'll draw a larger audience that expects to show up and cheer for their favorite wrestlers, and expects hardcore matchs not so much because they care about it, but because I advertise my shows that way. However, they won't be nearly so loyal- and if the industry or economy tanks, they'll write my shows off as unnecessary luxuries. Do I have this right?

[Blasphemywebleed]

From the help files: This defines how the product is broken down. There are twelve items. Traditional is the old-school style where wrestling is quite slow paced and finishers tend to finish a match instantly. Mainstream means it appeals to the general public, the casual viewer. Comedy is when there is a big emphasis on playing up the comedic aspects of wrestling. Cult means the promotion is specifically aiming to make themselves a cult hit, which often means trying to hit a certain minority of fans. Risque is when the promotion ups the level of innuendo and shock tactics. Modern is the latter day style of mixing fast-paced athletic moves with gymnastic jaw-dropping aerial spots. Realism is where the promotion plays wrestling as being a real sport. Hyper Realism means the company intentionally puts aspects of MMA culture into its shows, in the hope of drawing a crossover audience. Hardcore is when plenty of blood and weapons appear in the show. Lucha Libre means the promotion uses a lot of Mexican influences. Pure is where the promotion uses a lot of ground-based mat work, in a very European manner. DareDevil means the company involves a lot of insane high spots and stunts.

[Self]

I've had similar problems finding out what things actually do. My main thing is with Cult/Risque. I understand what they represent, but... Yeah. Don't know what they do differently from each other. I think the entertainment product things affect what finishes you can use. As for differentiating between them, I have no idea.

[Derek B]

I'm not sure if I'm right but I always put Mainstream as "bland entertainment" and Cult as "deep entertainment" when I try to catergorise them. Just like with regular TV shows, I think Mainstream is just there to try and pull in the most viewers and offers relatively simple, easy to follow storylines (and probably has a stronger heel/face divide) for ideal results. With cult, the storylines are deeper and require more thought (and a murky heel/face divide at times) so will turn off the fans that don't really want to think about what they're watching. I'm pretty sure Adam has stated that they are both entertainment aspects of wrestling but just take different approaches towards things. Likewise, risque is all about the on-the-knuckle type of entertainment... throwing in the less family friendly aspects of life that aren't necessary to cult or mainstream, but may be frequently associated with cult programming anyway.

[Sudo_Nym]

[quote]This defines how the product is broken down. There are twelve items. Traditional is the old-school style where wrestling is quite slow paced and finishers tend to finish a match instantly. Mainstream means it appeals to the general public, the casual viewer. Comedy is when there is a big emphasis on playing up the comedic aspects of wrestling. Cult means the promotion is specifically aiming to make themselves a cult hit, which often means trying to hit a certain minority of fans. Risque is when the promotion ups the level of innuendo and shock tactics. Modern is the latter day style of mixing fast-paced athletic moves with gymnastic jaw-dropping aerial spots. Realism is where the promotion plays wrestling as being a real sport. Hyper Realism means the company intentionally puts aspects of MMA culture into its shows, in the hope of drawing a crossover audience. Hardcore is when plenty of blood and weapons appear in the show. Lucha Libre means the promotion uses a lot of Mexican influences. Pure is where the promotion uses a lot of ground-based mat work, in a very European manner. DareDevil means the company involves a lot of insane high spots and stunts. [/quote] Not to be rude or anything, but you've answered the question in much the same way as a demon or philosophy professer: The answer you gave was completely correct and not at all helpful at the same time. The question I really have is: I know that Cult means I'm trying to hit a certain minority of fans. Which minority is it? It is the minority that loves my product settings, or a minority that is independant of my other product settings? If it's the latter, than to which minority is it that I'm trying to appeal? For all the description says, it could be the minority that loves watching orangutans on unicycles. Mainstream is pretty cut and dry- I'm trying to appeal to a wide base. But the Cult description seems like it could go two different ways, and it's difficult for me personally to know what I want to do with it until I know something more specific.

[Thomnipotent]

Cult means that you're trying to create your own small but devoted fanbase. Example: Rocky Horror is a cult film. There's a minority of people who go and see it and dress up and cry in their cereal every morning. The minority niche audience wasn't around before Rocky Horror was... the film itself created that niche. So, considering the fact that you're running a wrestling promotion, I highly doubt that orangutans or unicycles will be any part of your target minority.

[Sudo_Nym]

The orangutan is just an example of what I'm talking about here. My point, is that all the other product description say something about the product. Setting Mainstream- you're trying to appeal to a wide audience. Traditional is old school wrestling. Lucha Libre is Mexican style wrestling. And so on. But just call yourself Cult, and it doesn't seem like you've said much at all. ECW, ROH, and GLOW could all be considered "Cult" promotions- they didn't try to appeal to everyone; only the minority that care about what they're about. So if I created a promotion whose only production definition was Cult, I'm saying that I'm trying to appeal to a specific minority; but which minority? Any definition that could include ECW, ROH, and GLOW seems to be fairly useless all by itself.

[Sigilistic]

[QUOTE=Sudo_Nym;359413] But just call yourself Cult, and it doesn't seem like you've said much at all. ECW, ROH, and GLOW could all be considered "Cult" promotions- they didn't try to appeal to everyone; only the minority that care about what they're about. [/QUOTE] You just answered your own question.

[Sudo_Nym]

Maybe we're talking at cross-purposes. I already know that being a Cult promotion is about appealing to a loyal and fanatical minority. The question is how that minority is determined. I'm just saying, open a promotion with no production definition other than cult. Which minority shows up to watch the show? If I intended to attract the Hardcore Wrestling Cult audience, but get the 45 minute Japanese match fan Cult audience because all I said was that I'm cult, I'm in a bit of trouble. Both are legitimately cult promotions; but I have no way of knowing what's going to fly because I haven't actually defined anything other than I'm trying to hit some minority. My point is that, if Cult is an aspect all to itself, it seems to be fairly worthless, because it doesn't say anything at all about the actual product. Having Cult appeal to a specific audience all by itself sidesteps the logical problem here, but then I have to deal with not know to whom I'm appealling because that information is not included in the documentation.

[Adam Ryland]

Cult, as the name implies, is the anti-Mainstream. It is the rebellious, counter-culture, revolutionary spirit that was synonymous with ECW. In terms of fans, it means you are going for the people who are disillusioned or against the inoffensive mainstream product.

[Sudo_Nym]

Thanks. I'd been trying to puzzle out what it really meant to declare yourself to be cult. All the other settings seemed to be useful all by themselves, but cult seemed to depend on your other settings.

[NordVolf]

I think you may still be misunderstanding something here. With the other promotion 'types', they have their characteristics, which in turn draws a specific fan base. And you chase that. Which is where you get your idea that you have to know what they mean so you can persue that. It's an understandable and logical assumption. But with Cult, it's the other way around. It's not [I]just[/I] anti-Mainstream. Cult is based around your other settings and where they are, as well as the kind of shows/matches you put on (I'm assuming). In other wrods, [B][I]you[/I][/B] define what your particular brand of Cult means, based on the other settings of your product. You set up the product, and then a [I]very[/I] rabid group of followers comes to [B][I]you[/I][/B]. Just run shows/matches as you see fit (and as long as it's consistant!), and your fans will come along for the ride. Like they said in that baseball movie; "Build it and they will come". Of course, doing it like that means that you are drawing on a specific and very narrow demographic of fans. So it is, indeed, understandable that it's as hard as it is to bring a "Cult" promotion above Cult status and into National or above. There simple wouldn't be that many rabid fans to whom your product apeals on a national or larger level. Everyone else (especially Cult followers who like something different) will [B][I]hate[/I][/B] your shows and just not come. But that's the nature of the beast. Of course, I recently experimented, and found a couple things that the Cult setting does that other settings do not: [B]1)[/B] The fans are [I]very[/I] vocal about what they don't like. Dependant on how high you set Cult to. The higher it's set, the greater they 'hate' who they hate. Picture the audience in the Country Bar scene of the Movie [I][U]The Blues Brothers[/U][/I] and you about have it. I imagine with Cult set to Heavy or Key, you'll have to put up the chicken wire... ;) [B]2)[/B] With a 'normal' promotion, if you tinker with the product settings in a major way, your fan base that attend shows will drop a little. Or a good bit. But if you have Cult set high, even a little change brings a [B]HUGE[/B] drop. Those Cult fans want what they want, and if you alter it even a little, they'll run from your venue as if you'd scattered live grenades in the bleachers. With the pins pulled. I ran shows with Cult at Key and built up to around 50 or so fans per show. Changed a setting to reduce something or other by one step and increase another one step (kept Cult) and the next show only 12 people showed. :eek: Yeah. They [U][I]hate[/I][/U] it when you do that.