DOTM: July Nominations

[angeldelayette]

Yes, fair... but at no point have I suggested not letting everyone vote.

 

I merely said inductees should have some greater say. Now, at the moment, I can't remember how Keef ran it. However, for example, if there is a nomination stage (requiring seconding and the rest), I think it should be possible for inductees to fully nominate someone without the need for back-up in the decision.

 

I don't believe our votes should count more but, as I said, I believe our experience of reading so many different writers should count for something. Maybe it could be something as simple as a recommendation process.

 

The only point is, at the risk of getting heat here, whilst there are some very good diaries around now, there are, frankly, legendary ones that have been forgotten by some (and not even read by others).

 

For instance, from the C-Verse perspective, Infinity should be right up there and, from the realworld perspective, Outlaw should be.

 

My only other concern is the possibility of C-Verse overly dominating the Hall of Fame. This, of course, should be down to consensus but I would prefer to see an even split.

 

Quote The Raven

Nevermore

 

Maybe something like the nomination process but a nomination by a current inductee doesn't need a second? But everyone else would need a second? And there's definitely some previous diary writers that deserve it. You mentioned Outlaw but also the_ismailite should probably be right up there as well.

[Nevermore]

Maybe something like the nomination process but a nomination by a current inductee doesn't need a second? But everyone else would need a second? And there's definitely some previous diary writers that deserve it. You mentioned Outlaw but also the_ismailite should probably be right up there as well.

 

Exactly this kind of concept, yeah... and, indeed, another very good example.

 

Quote The Raven

Nevermore

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah some positive powers (not veto) for the current HoF would be good. Combining the no second nomination with the possibility of giving multiple official recomandations with reasons would be a good way to go IMHO. This way it doesn't become elitist as the HoF current members don't get to keep anyone out but at the same time helps those voting who would be good candidates and why so that none are inadvertantly overlooked so that it doesn't become a current popularity contest.

 

I disagree with the 50/50 split tough as it is about quality not subject matter imho.

[Nevermore]

Yeah some positive powers (not veto) for the current HoF would be good. Combining the no second nomination with the possibility of giving multiple official recomandations with reasons would be a good way to go IMHO. This way it doesn't become elitist as the HoF current members don't get to keep anyone out but at the same time helps those voting who would be good candidates and why so that none are inadvertantly overlooked so that it doesn't become a current popularity contest.

 

Spot on, here, I think.

 

I disagree with the 50/50 split tough as it is about quality not subject matter imho.

 

This is just personal taste. Please, please don't hate me for this but, as someone who has tried his hand at both, I just think there is something that makes writing for C-Verse easier than writing for realworld... probably the freedom of character direction.

 

I'm not saying it necessarily should be a 50/50 split; it should definitely be a consensus decision. However, I would be disappointed if the realworld was left behind.

 

Quote The Raven

Nevermore

[praguepride]

See, I would adamantly disagree with a process that gives someone more or less power then my vote. While I may not be the "aged veteren" like some of you, I feel that I have brought my fair share to the table and therefore my vote should be just as good or bad as anybody elses.By giving HoFers "special powers" no matter how minor it segregates the forums into the "haves" and the "have-nots." You already get the benefit of having your name in the spotlight, I don't feel that should weigh in on any democratic processes.

 

As for the forerunner diaries, I've read many of them, and honestly, I don't know that infinity's diary is better or worse then some of the newer ones, like Bigpapa or Eisen-verses. Granted I haven't read any of those three fully, but just because it "was here first" doesn't guarantee quality in the slightest. Now, again I'm not trying to disrespect anyone because I fully acknowledge that it was people like Shipshirt (who I haven't seen post in a long time ) and Scapino who got me into diary writing, but the question I have is: if they're so legendary, why weren't they inducted before hand?

 

Or am I missing something about how the HoF had an X year hiatus, because if that's the case, then I propose that for however many X years the HoF was on hiatus, that's how many inductees there should be. We'll do the standard nom/second/third process, have linkees and big bold letters to encourage people to at least read the OP of the diaries before voting. Then we'll let the masses turn out. Sure maybe some of the newer, more popular diaries will pull ahead, but by actually providing links to these old classics and having the "diary elite" lauding these diaries as their inspirations, maybe we'll get people to actually read some of the older ones and that will be a true testament if someone deserves HoF status, does their work stand up to the test of time?

 

...but at the same time helps those voting who would be good candidates and why so that none are inadvertantly overlooked ...

 

It's lines like this that get the fire starting in my blood. I am strong headed and tunnel visioned and I oppose others "helping" me make up my mind. It's my mind and I'll make it up however I like. If you linkie, I will read and make an informed decision on my own.

 

My recommendation is to have a very wide time period between nominations and voting to give people time to "catch up on the classics"

[The Final Countdown]

Getting back to DOTM for a second..

 

So you need to 2ND rookies? If so,

 

I would like to second Oldschool's WWF "No Hulk / No Vince", first, because it's an interesting concept, two, because he doesn't rating whore, three, because it's an interesting concept.

 

A) I agree with everything you said.

 

B) Thank you for seconding this diary, because it makes my decision easier. I'm going to use my Rookie nom to 2nd Genadi's Moolah McMahon. A fun read from the start, and the recent happening involving Triple H made things even more interesting.

[d_w_w]

Gotta nominate d_w_w's MDC2: The Battle Rages On for the rookie diary. 1) coz it's got content relevent to my interests, and 2) because it's damn good, and the only diary I'm checking this forum daily for.

 

For Rookie I'd like to second d_w_w's The Battle Rages On, because it's really well written and has comic book characters, which is always a plus for mee

 

Everything else I read has already been seconded so I guess I'll leave the others for now..

 

Thanks for the nominations

[praguepride]

Do you think there's enough competition now to split up rookie real world and c-verse?

 

I know in the past there haven't been enough diaries period to risk splitting it up, but these past few months have really had a flood of diaries on the boards.

 

Is TEW suddenly becoming more popular?

 

# wise I see 6 c-verse rookie diaries and 5 real-world diaries.

[praguepride]

Thanks for the nominations

 

You deserve it, if nothing else but for the interesting twist. It's shaping up to be another tough month for competition.

[d_w_w]

You deserve it, if nothing else but for the interesting twist. It's shaping up to be another tough month for competition.

 

I'm disappointed that there aren't more "fantasy" diaries running... right now, I feel somewhat out of place updating my comic driven diary.

 

Do you think there's enough competition now to split up rookie real world and c-verse?

 

I know in the past there haven't been enough diaries period to risk splitting it up, but these past few months have really had a flood of diaries on the boards.

 

Is TEW suddenly becoming more popular?

 

# wise I see 6 c-verse rookie diaries and 5 real-world diaries.

 

Just like to point out that I have no real opinion on whether the real and c-verse rookie lists should be split. In my mind, this is a good idea (albeit, with the caveat that the lists should be merged in the future, if the number of new diaries dives down).

 

Of course, my diary doesn't really fit in either category, but I'm okay with that. In other words, if folks think it is a good idea to split, I hope no one feels the need to hold off spitting the categories on account of my diary. I'm having fun with my diary and understand that I'm doing something somewhat different (and thus, maybe not directly comparable).

[Nevermore]

Do you think there's enough competition now to split up rookie real world and c-verse?

 

Definitely not... explained below.

 

It's lines like this that get the fire starting in my blood. I am strong headed and tunnel visioned and I oppose others "helping" me make up my mind. It's my mind and I'll make it up however I like. If you linkie, I will read and make an informed decision on my own.

 

Okay, I'm sorry but, first off, this comment is ridiculous.

 

I have invested far more hours into diary writing than you have (and likely ever will) and yet no "fire is starting" in me. This is a board where we compare wrestling booking ideas; it's not concerned with nobel prize nominations. Chill out...

 

My recommendation is to have a very wide time period between nominations and voting to give people time to "catch up on the classics"

 

Fine in theory... but no one will. People are lazy and admittedly so. If they get hooked on a diary, they will read it but they won't willfully get themselves hooked on another, previous one.

 

Let's be serious... if someone typed in here, hand-on-heart, that they'd go back and read all (yes, all... we're trying to reach a fair process here) highly recommended past diaries, I would either have a tremendous amount of respect for them or, more likely, not believe them.

 

While I may not be the "aged veteren" like some of you, I feel that I have brought my fair share to the table and therefore my vote should be just as good or bad as anybody elses.By giving HoFers "special powers" no matter how minor it segregates the forums into the "haves" and the "have-nots." You already get the benefit of having your name in the spotlight, I don't feel that should weigh in on any democratic processes.

 

My word... this isn't about you or me. It's about who gets inducted. I feel because some of us have been more aware of more diaries than you, it should count for something... otherwise great writers get left behind which I think is wholly unfair.

 

...and we've already segregated the forum. That's what the HoF is... a chance to vote on who you think is the best of the diary writers. What is that if not segregation? I don't see how allowing experienced readers a greater input is making things unfair.

 

As for the forerunner diaries, I've read many of them, and honestly, I don't know that infinity's diary is better or worse then some of the newer ones, like Bigpapa or Eisen-verses. Granted I haven't read any of those three fully, but just because it "was here first" doesn't guarantee quality in the slightest.

 

You've missed the point spectacularly. I never questioned quality; I questioned consistency. With the longest running diary on here (as well as others), I know it's all too easy to start up a diary for it to die out soon after. The longevity of a work should be considered. PLUS, I come back to the fact that it is the writer and not the diary that is inducted. That is very important.

 

he question I have is: if they're so legendary, why weren't they inducted before hand?

 

Because only six writers have been inducted at all (due to numbers being constrained... rightly, I feel). In the last few months alone, the number of writers has shot up by about twenty five. You do the maths...

 

Main point of the post

 

Or am I missing something about how the HoF had an X year hiatus, because if that's the case, then I propose that for however many X years the HoF was on hiatus, that's how many inductees there should be.

 

No, I think you're missing the entire point. This isn't meant as a boast but if you look back through my posting history... years ago, it was me who suggested running a diary awards in the first place.

 

Everything like this... the DoTM, DoTY, the HoF was set up to reward diary writers before the whole bandwagon started.

 

I am pleased diaries have got so big; genuinely I am but if you take the time to look back (or if you were here in the beginning, you would know) that it was not always so popular and feedback wasn't easy to come by.

 

Back in the day, Adam ran the C-Verse diary of the month where he sticked a thread. DoTM was set up solely as a realworld equivalent. When Adam stopped stickying, C-Verse was admitted; when many more diaries sprang up, rookies were admitted. Now, you are suggesting to seperate rookies into two categories, inevitably increasing the chances of even more diaries being started and lowering the incentive for people to stick with their current efforts.

 

The HoF is the one... the one thing that was set up as a means to say "good job" to the people who have stuck with their stories. To the people who carried on writing back in the early days of the forum despite low response rates; the people who inspired others to get involved. It's supposed to say "good job, we haven't forgotten". That's why I'm suggesting all of this.

 

It makes no difference to me personally. I could be a prick and say "Hey, I'm already in... who cares?" However, there were many guys who created spectacular stories over the last few years before every man and his dog decided to start up a dynasty. They should certainly receive first consideration.

 

In fact, if I'm brutally honest, I think one of the reasons the Outlaw became less active is because of the huge influx of flash-in-the-pan writers (I don't want to put words in his mouth, though).

 

Now, I'll stop this mammoth essay here for fear that it's starting to sound like the ending monologue in a South Park episode . Nevertheless, I do hope you realise where I'm coming from.

 

Quote The Raven

Nevermore

[Astil]

Now, I'll stop this mammoth essay here for fear that it's starting to sound like the ending monologue in a South Park episode . Nevertheless, I do hope you realise where I'm coming from.

 

Quote The Raven

Nevermore

 

I broke the damn.

[Hyde Hill]

Actually splitting the rookie vote for this month and this month only wouldn't be too bad an idea seeing as there are so dam many contenders. I can't be partial though as I am part of it. Altough it wouldn't increase or decrease a win chance. But would like to know other peoples thoughts on the subject.

 

Furthermore would it be an idea to set up a French type voting system with multiple rounds for the HoF or diary of the year awards? I have always been partial too that system.

 

PS I broke the damn!

[Astil]

BTW, I'd have to agree with Nevs here and say splitting the rookie vote is a bad idea.

 

Rookie should be the low tier title, with CVerse and RW being the Main Event titles.

 

You don't need 2 low tier titles.

 

The NBA has only a rookie of the year, however it has an MVP and defensive player of the year award. Why not have defensive rookie of the year too?

 

Simple answer because more awards greatly lowers the meaning of the awards in place.

 

Also, no really, I broke the dam.

[Nevermore]

Also, no really, I broke the dam.

 

No I literally broke the f**king dam... with a boat... I drove a boat into the dam and broke it!

 

Quote The Raven

Nevermore

[d_w_w]

Main point of the

post

 

...

 

The HoF is the one... the one thing that was set up as a means to say "good job" to the people who have stuck with their stories. To the people who carried on writing back in the early days of the forum despite low response rates; the people who inspired others to get involved. It's supposed to say "good job, we haven't forgotten". That's why I'm suggesting all of this.

 

I don't care, either way, how the HOF inductees are selected. And so, if the current HOF'ers get more say, then that's fine. If not, then that's also fine.

 

But I hope, that in the bolded section above, you really mean that the HOF is the one thing that was setup as a means to reward folks that stuck with quality stories.

 

Being consistent, alone, isn't all that great (i.e., I could start a new diary, update it daily, and only include a piece of crap one-sentence run-on summary of my cards [full of typos and completely lacking in details]).

 

Being good, for a show or a month of shows, alone, isn't all that great.

 

Being consistently good, however, is reward and praise-worthy.

 

In other words: quality and consistency should never be viewed as distinct concepts.

 

Of course, I'm guessing you probably meant all of that. In which case, nevermind

[Stennick]

BTW, I'd have to agree with Nevs here and say splitting the rookie vote is a bad idea.

The NBA has only a rookie of the year, however it has an MVP and defensive player of the year award. Why not have defensive rookie of the year too?

 

Simple answer because more awards greatly lowers the meaning of the awards in place.

.

 

MLB has two MVP's, two rookie of the years, etc. National League (Real World) and American League (C Verse). I don't have an opinion one way or another. But this month it looks like what six, seven, maybe eight by the time we're done Rookie's thats a lotta rookies and it seems fairly split.

[The Final Countdown]

Let's be serious... if someone typed in here, hand-on-heart, that they'd go back and read all (yes, all... we're trying to reach a fair process here) highly recommended past diaries, I would either have a tremendous amount of respect for them or, more likely, not believe them.

If an older diary that I hadn't had the chance to read was being heavily supported as a HOF-caliber work, I would definitely want to check it out before I made any sort of voting decision. Would I read every recommended diary, word-for-word? No; though I'm sure a few of them would hook me, and I would read them all the way through. But I don't think you have to read a diary word-for-word to get a sense of its quality/longevity, either.

 

At the least, I think that the HOF members who still come here regularly should have the option of automatically nominating a writer into the voting process with no 2nds (or 3rds, if that's needed in the HOF) required.

 

The DOTM is fine as-is; no need to split the Rookies up.

[Nevermore]

Of course, I'm guessing you probably meant all of that. In which case, nevermind

 

Indeed I did .

 

Quote The Raven

Nevermore

[praguepride]

No, don't you see. We all broke the dam...

 

Nevermore, let me first off say that I have tremendous respect for both you and other HoFers. As you neglected to comment on () I mentioned that I fully admit that it was "legacy" writers who paved the way to this wondrous place now where DotM is bursting at the seems.

 

I don't wish to impugn upon your accomplishments. What I mean to say is that isn't being a Hall of Famer enough? Do you really need to have more power and influence then you already have? To boil it down, why should your vote count more then mine? Because you were here first? Because you write more then I do?

 

I'm not opposed to setting up an established system. I'm opposed to not having an equal voice.

 

 

Honestly, I know it's a minor thing not requiring a second/third/whatever but I fear that it sets a dangerous precedent. Sure now it's only an "auto-second" but what happens later on?

 

Again it's silly but then on the flip side, why should you get more of a say then, say, derek_b or Mr. T? Both of them have contributed enormously to the TEW universe.

 

And if they're not going to be excluded, then why can't any mod maker step up and say "I've contributed?" and then why can't any diary writer say "I've contributed?"

 

My point is that we have ALL contributed in some way or another, whether it be a diary, a mod, a simple story or anecdote, or whatever.

 

You're right in that older diaries need to be considered with merit, but I have faith that people will actually look at the diaries before they vote. Especially if we all band together and encourage each other, push each other to take the time to read before we vote. Because even your method of "auto-seconds" won't guarantee a win. Even if all you grizzled veterans vote for diary X, diary Y might get 10x that number in "newb" votes.

 

On other news:

 

I support the idea of multiple rounds of voting until we get the top X.

 

Say dropping the bottom 1/4 each time until we get the magic number.

 

edit: As for the rookie title, meh, sounds like something to vote upon. If we do wish for it to grow along with the growing diary section, then maybe have an option where if both categories have at least 5 nominees they'll be split.

[Nevermore]

I don't wish to impugn upon your accomplishments. What I mean to say is that isn't being a Hall of Famer enough? Do you really need to have more power and influence then you already have? To boil it down, why should your vote count more then mine? Because you were here first? Because you write more then I do?

 

I'm not opposed to setting up an established system. I'm opposed to not having an equal voice.

 

 

Honestly, I know it's a minor thing not requiring a second/third/whatever but I fear that it sets a dangerous precedent. Sure now it's only an "auto-second" but what happens later on?

 

Again it's silly but then on the flip side, why should you get more of a say then, say, derek_b or Mr. T? Both of them have contributed enormously to the TEW universe.

 

And if they're not going to be excluded, then why can't any mod maker step up and say "I've contributed?" and then why can't any diary writer say "I've contributed?"

 

My point is that we have ALL contributed in some way or another, whether it be a diary, a mod, a simple story or anecdote, or whatever.

 

First off, Mr T and Derek have contributed (greatly) to modding not diary writing. We already have a favourite mod section in DoTY; if you want a modders hall of fame, suggest it in the mod forum.

 

Second, I'm astounded that you're still seeing this as the difference between me and you. This is not to increase my own power... I am not Triple H (Razor Ramon, maybe... oh never mind ). As I've said, I'm in, I have noting to gain... nothing.

 

I just know of people who do have something to gain, deserve it and might not get it if certain... ahem... "grizzled veterans" don't get some kind of impact. Also, without sounding like a prick, I'm not proposing arbitrary power or anything... all inductees got voted in.

 

I'm so tempted to say "Screw it, work it however you want", since I already know who my likely noms/votes are but I think it's a cause worth representing .

 

Quote The Raven

Nevermore

[Zeel1]

A little question I thought of..once it's lost eligibility for ROTM, where would a nomination for d_w_w's MDC2 diary put it..? I don't suppose there are enough diaries like that to warrant an "Others" section, but what does that mean for that diary? After these next awards are done, does that it put it out of the running for good, or what?

[Nevermore]

A little question I thought of..once it's lost eligibility for ROTM, where would a nomination for d_w_w's MDC2 diary put it..? I don't suppose there are enough diaries like that to warrant an "Others" section, but what does that mean for that diary? After these next awards are done, does that it put it out of the running for good, or what?

 

This came up before with Panix's science fiction chaos diary but, of course, he was too crap to ever win . Sadly, I doubt he'll read this.

 

Love you really, though, bud .

 

I think his got put with Realworld 'cos he had "real life" creations played by real life actors. I would probably put MDC2 in with C-Verse but that's one for popular opinion.

 

Quote The Raven

Nevermore

[praguepride]

Fair enough. I'm just asking you to have some faith in the rest of us.

 

We may not have all "lived through X or Y" but we're smart enough to get decent diaries into the otM/Y so give us some credit.

 

Now, I have a couple of proposed idea.

 

1) We sort diaries based on age. An '05, '07, and an '08 category. At their oldest, an '08 diaries going to only be a year and a half old, and if you notice join dates that's when many of us who are active on these forums are from.

 

Now these are arbitrary numbers but this would help ensure that older diaries would get looked at.

 

2) Multiple rounds of voting. We nominate authors and link to ALL of their works, with the emphasis not only being on quality, but on consistency and continuity. Extreme quality can overcome consistency (Monkeypox's famous diary only went what...3 months in game time but it's legend will live on) while extreme consistency can overcome quality (not giving examples because that would be mean ).

 

3) You "grizzled veterans" represent vocally. Create a thread called "Nevermore's top picks" where you can advocate people read and consider certain diaries for X, Y, and Z reasons. You have influence, Nevermore, and you're free to use it just like I could attempt to use my pitiful influence to tell people to vote for A or B. You're on higher ground because you earned it one post at a time. Nobody can argue that.

 

Off of #3 though, by giving someone more power, no matter how small, it raises questions for me. For example, what if Bigpapa was inducted. Now his opinion counts more then mine even though I was writing diaries before he ever joined?

 

Now, I know his writing is better then mine, but what if it's someone who's not me. For every HoFer there's dozens of people who didn't get in. When you add more then just bragging rights to an award, you up the stakes for both the win and the loss. What if it's a close race and the guy only gets in because he got a bunch of friends to quick vote for him at the last second. Now not only do the losers have to face that loss, but suddenly their voice are that much less then his.

 

And what about the mod makers? Do they never get the chance for their voice to weigh in a little bit more then the rest?

 

These are extreme examples, I know, and maybe nothing will ever happen. Or maybe it will. Neither of us can say one way or the other.

 

I just feel that you and the other veterans have earned places of considerable influence, and don't discount the power of your voice. Not only do you not need any margin of power (because I'm sure any diary you nom will get seconded either by a true reader or a sheep follower) but it speaks higher of both you and this board that we don't encourage elitism, that the newest member has an equal voice in all things as the most seasoned veteran.

 

That is one of the nice things about this board that seperates it from so many cesspits in the internet plains. There isn't this band of elitists trying to keep anyone out, to discourage "newbs" from posting. People with unwarranted feelings of superiority just because their join date is slightly lower then yours.

 

The reason why I post here is because I feel welcome and equal, and I will fight any encroachment on those areas, no matter how small.

(cue the patriotic music)

 

It is the equality that makes this forum great.

 

flag unfurls in the background and waves in the wind

 

So, just like you can vote whether you've read every diary or none at all, so too every vote should be just as equal as the next.

 

 

Caveat: I do not believe that the internet is serious business, so I'm not going to cry or cut myself because I don't get my way. I just have a lot of passion in my voice and it spills into even my hobbies. Plus it's more fun if you care (or at least pretend to) about the results.

[praguepride]

This came up before with Panix's science fiction chaos diary but, of course, he was too crap to ever win . Sadly, I doubt he'll read this.

 

Love you really, though, bud .

 

I think his got put with Realworld 'cos he had "real life" creations played by real life actors. I would probably put MDC2 in with C-Verse but that's one for popular opinion.

 

Quote The Raven

Nevermore

 

I'd support it being lumped in with C-Verse. Although it will always be called c-verse, we can pretend that it's "fantasy" vs. "reality"