alden Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Wow, i just got done watching impact and i have to admit i LOVED the pope vs suicide match. I know burk..........ermmmm sorry the pope is the heel but he was getting so much pops it was insane. He listend to what the crowed wanted *they would chant hocky stick, he picked up a kindo stick and he got booed, tossed it down and picked up a hockey stick and got a pop.* Suicide threw a tambarine *i know i can't spell that* and he got huge heat for it. Pope picked it back up and got anohter pop........that guys knows how to work a crowed big time. What did everyone else think of that match? I know it was a good show but that one really stuck out to me with how much the crowed got into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Yeah somehow the impact zone crowd who are generally flaccid really like them some pope and he really knows how to play to them. So far their whole feud have given us three decent matches so I am quite happy for both of them. Hopefully a nice blowout match at bound for glory is in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cappyboy Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 I agree with what y'all are sayingabout the Pope/Suicide. But honestly I wasn't too impressed with this past week's show as a whole. The segments were are all fine. But it really didn't flow as well this week as it has it recent months. This week show felt more like two one hour shows back to back than one two hour show. It was almost like Smackdown pacing. And that's not going to do. If I want a two hour show with that kind of flow, I'll just watch Smackdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tag01 Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 It's hard to feel like you're watching something that matters when the crowd is perpetually dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Yeah they seriously need to move out of the impact zone. Seeing as their house shows are drawing in the 1.000 on average they should be able to find a nice home venue near Orlando/Nashville or somewhere else in the South East to set up in and remain profitable/more profit with the plus side that paying fans give a lot better reactions. Anyone know when their contract with Universal ends? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Prime Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 I'm a huge Pope fan, but if he's doing things to get a pop, he's not doing his job. He's a heel. He shouldn't have picked up the hockey stick just to make the fans happy. It's simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cappyboy Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Yeah they seriously need to move out of the impact zone. Seeing as their house shows are drawing in the 1.000 on average they should be able to find a nice home venue near Orlando/Nashville or somewhere else in the South East to set up in and remain profitable/more profit with the plus side that paying fans give a lot better reactions. Anyone know when their contract with Universal ends? I have no problem with the Impact Zone. The shows would have had the same feel of being two one hour shows smooshed into one two hour episode if they were at the Impact Zone, Scope, or the Egg Dome. Venue has nothing to do with why this week's Impact suffered for me. Oh and why I'm at it, Lashley + Holliday = WHY?!! Lashley's not bad as a wrestler but he in no way merits the kind of push TNA's giving him. And Holliday might as well return to WWE and be Trevor Murdoch again if this is all that's going to be done with him. Holliday's a guy I'd much rather see as an upper midcarder in a USPW/CGC level indy than as an afterthought on a major show like TNA's or WWE's. Shame he's risen beyond the level where anyone's ever going to appreciate him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Yeah that remark wasn't targeted at this weeks episode just TNA in general the venue just makes for a real hit and miss in crowd reaction situation. Compare that to some of the house show vid's around and you see what I mean. Lot stronger crowd reactions etc. Jethro lolz, yeah as far as I understand it he was brought in because Cade was supposed to come in as well but Cade decided to stay in Japan longer so they are now stuck with him lolz. Sriously though I get the whole roster turnover idea but ffs Jethro and Deaner over Petey and Dutt? What was Taylor smoking? BTW is (former) MEM security still employed or not? Anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cappyboy Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Jethro lolz, yeah as far as I understand it he was brought in because Cade was supposed to come in as well but Cade decided to stay in Japan longer so they are now stuck with him lolz. Sriously though I get the whole roster turnover idea but ffs Jethro and Deaner over Petey and Dutt? So essentially Jethro's suffering because TNA Creative lacked imagination for him once Cade didn't come in as well. But you know your question contains a pretty good answer in my mind. Why not put Jethro with Cody Deaner? Deaner has the personality and Jethro has the experience. Could be a good mixture. Would make his TNA tenure far more useful than being debut fodder for guys like Lashley. Heck, now that ODB and Cody Deaner are through maybe Jethro should love match with Alissa Flash over the welcome mat syndrome. Loved that with Flash by the way. Raging about being the opening opponent for international talent and the welcome mat rant. Awesomeness. And the way she folded up Hamada in starting the attack. I swear, the more I see of this Flash character the more I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Yeah Melissa aka Flash aka Saeed is awesome as well as Hamada for taking those bumps and yeah comedy job squad Deaner + Jethro has come to my mind and seems like a viable option. This weeks Impact was better then last weeks but not as good as the two before that. Overall though I think they have really improved the presentation etc. Now for just a better balance in angles/matches and they will be really going for gold so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remianen Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 I'm a huge Pope fan, but if he's doing things to get a pop, he's not doing his job. He's a heel. He shouldn't have picked up the hockey stick just to make the fans happy. It's simple. Faces get more money (move more merch too). Maybe he's angling for a turn. Or, maybe he's trying to elevate himself in the eyes of the fans to warrant a better push. He wouldn't be the first to do that. His gimmick is very 'cool heel', which tends to mean 'he's a heel but fans love him'. Some would say that makes him a face, but this is TNA we're talkin' about. If you're not in the Main Event Mafia or World Elite, you're a face in TNA. That match was fun to watch. The tambourine spot and the chair-boosted spear were really good. I just really wish they wouldn't have gone so heavy on the gimmick matches. At least not this early in the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eisen-verse Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 I honestly thought this topic was going to be something completely different by reading the post's name... ha. With that being said, I'm afraid this is as far as TNA goes. Like they've hit their "Glass Ceiling". I know that won't be popular as everyone will say that they're still a new company and that they just need to find their stride, however, if you look at where they are now... They only really seem to be going backward. Making bad booking decisions, insulting the crowd with lazy booking (then again the WWE does this just as bad if not worse), and overall relying heavily on those who have shown that they can't bring anything NEW to the industry (ie: russo, etc. I know Russo gets a bad wrap and is typically the one everyone attacks as it pertains to the company's direction but hey... There's some truth there). Again, I'm afraid that TNA is much like the Madden series right now.... You wait for something new to happen... Something innovative... Something that makes you go..."YES, they've finally got this right"... However, that never.... ever... comes. Until it can be proven that they can go in that direction... It just looks as if they are destined to flounder. Before I'm labeled as a TNA hater, Honestly... I WANT to love TNA. I'm clawing for a smart, well booked, great character development kind of company out there. I desperately wish that TNA could deliver this but... meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpion Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 I'm a huge Pope fan, but if he's doing things to get a pop, he's not doing his job. He's a heel. He shouldn't have picked up the hockey stick just to make the fans happy. It's simple. Agreed. Faces get more money (move more merch too). Maybe he's angling for a turn. Or, maybe he's trying to elevate himself in the eyes of the fans to warrant a better push. He wouldn't be the first to do that. His gimmick is very 'cool heel', which tends to mean 'he's a heel but fans love him'. Some would say that makes him a face, but this is TNA we're talkin' about. If you're not in the Main Event Mafia or World Elite, you're a face in TNA. That match was fun to watch. The tambourine spot and the chair-boosted spear were really good. I just really wish they wouldn't have gone so heavy on the gimmick matches. At least not this early in the program. Its that kind of crap that killed WCW. But hey, maybe Nash is rubbing off on the young guys. "Cool Heels" are bad for business because they never allow the face to get over, which means they never draw, which is the point of wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remianen Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Its that kind of crap that killed WCW. But hey, maybe Nash is rubbing off on the young guys. "Cool Heels" are bad for business because they never allow the face to get over, which means they never draw, which is the point of wrestling. *shrug* I've never thought heels had to be so utterly despicable that you wanted to shoot his wife and behead his kids just to get to him. I'd like to remind folks that it was a 'cool heel' that was one of the centerpieces of the most successful period in the largest company's history. Or do you think Rock turning on Faarooq (the eyebrow of doom) was a face turn for ROCK? From that point on, despite being a 'heel', people loved that character. So much so that they had to do what? That's right, turn him face. The only difference between a 'cool heel' and a 'c*cky face' is semantics and intent. And while getting a video game character over is probably admirable (and perhaps even unique), Suicide the character as portrayed in reality, is really kinda bland. So really, I don't blame the fans for showing which character they prefer. They have their place. The problem with WCW wasn't the cool heel gimmick: it was the fact that damn near EVERYONE used it. Anything overused is bad since it makes characters indistinguishable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Well personally in TEW game terms I like the medium face/heel divide letting you the viewer decide who the bad guy is etc. But that is a personal preference. Again regarding crowd reaction it is always hard to gauge with the Impact zone as so many are just casual theme park attendants. The weird thing is before the whole pope program it was Suicide that was getting quite a large amount of crowd support. It is just that Burke so far has had a strong debut. And yeah Eisen I see your point but I do think TNA is making strides albeit very slowly, only I don't expect them to be totally innovative as apart from going puro or lucha in the US there isn't much to do which could be labeled as such. I just want them to be different from their main competitor and as you said in the end a smart, well booked company with good character development. TNA is just a lot like the engine that should at the moment. Thing is compare their current booking/production values etc with 2007 and their crowd support (ratings etc) with 2006 and before and they have made great strides. They just need to get past those last humps and yeah I don't think Russo is the man for that job or Cornette for that matter. Ok rant over I will work out the rest in my diary and will continue to support them as it is best for the business as a whole for there to be a strong alternative and atm no other company is even close. (Except if they totally screw up BFG and the month after, then I am outta there for a while and will switch to Smackdown and/or ROH, DG: USA.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alden Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share Posted September 27, 2009 I think a "cool heel" or an "badass face" is a good thing if done right. Look at austin, he was a "face" but he was the anti hero kind of guy but people loved him. The same thing with the rock, he was the slick cat that you just had to love no matter what he did. I think the match was odd though as they totally switched roll's. It seamed like suicide *pushing out the tambourine* was a complete heel moment. Maybe pope just used it as part of his street preacher gimmick at first *which i did not think i would like but is growing on me by the way* and the crowed just ate it up and he ran with it. There was a part where you knew he could hear the crowd. He crowed was chanting hockey stick. He grabbed the kendo stick and paused as the crowed booed and he threw it down. You could tell he was going for a pop at that point, or atleast giving people what they wanted. That is totally anti heel.......a good heel would have picked up the hockey stick....almost hit the guy then break it over his knee and throw it down. The number one rule for a heel is don't give the fans what they want. If they want a table give them everything but. If they want hardcore give them technical, if they want a clean finish cheat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Century Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 I'm a huge Pope fan, but if he's doing things to get a pop, he's not doing his job. He's a heel. He shouldn't have picked up the hockey stick just to make the fans happy. It's simple. Maybe he doesn't like being a heel ! Anyways, I hardly ever see wrestlers doing what the fans tell them (or chant to them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astil Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Man I did not think this was a wrestling discussion based on the title... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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