For the (American) football fans...

[Remianen]

Had a spirited discussion earlier with a few friends & acquaintances that went deep into football theory, and I figured there might be some folks here that could jump into it. The questions were:

 

1) What is your favorite offense to play in? Why?

2) What is your favorite offense to watch? Why?

3) What is your favorite defense to play in? Why?

4) What is your favorite defense to watch? Why?

5) What offense/defense matchup would you pay to see? Why?

 

My answers were quite controversial (surprise surprise!).

 

1) The Run & Shoot. The way my coach implemented it, anyone who could play receiver could also be the running back (think Percy Harvin at Florida). So defenses couldn't change their personnel packages until we got to the line and by then it was too late (and it led to many timeouts being burned on their side). Most of the time, I was the single back (and defenses schemed for that) but if we came out of the huddle and I split out into the slot or to the X, they didn't know how to deal with whoever replaced me in the backfield. I also liked how the Run & Shoot required intelligence from every position in the offense. With so many option routes, every receiver had to be able to read a defense as well as quarterbacks are required to do and react to coverage on every play.

 

2) 4-4, hands down. Basically a hybrid 4-3 with one safety replaced with a linebacker. On our team, we had several hybrid types (too big/slow to be a true safety, too small/fast to be a true linebacker) so this was kind of the best choice. With players that communicate, it can lead to a linebacker leading the team in interceptions, as it did with us (teams loved trying to slant on us and we manipulated quarterbacks by me (at left corner) shading to the outside and our left outside 'backer delaying his rush or drop just enough so the QB throws the quick slant right to him).

 

3) A-11. Seriously, this offense is ridiculously cool and effective. It's murder trying to keep up with and track the ball, but that's the whole point. I've coached youth league football and I'd hate to be a defensive coordinator who had to stop this. At its heart, it's easy to stop but it requires a lot of forethought and tendency tracking.

 

4) Monte Kiffin's Tampa 2. It kept everyone within their abilities and didn't require anyone to do what they didn't do well. It almost required athletes at all positions except strong safety. Fun to watch a defense with everyone flying to the ball.

 

5) A-11 vs the 46. I like big hits and this matchup would definitely feature lots of those.

 

It was kinda funny how heated the discussion got, with folks sketching plays on the paper tablecloths the waiter brought out. People must've thought we were speaking a foreign language with all the "That's bullsh*t! If you stunt your 3, the fire zone is poppin' your pansy [or cherry]." (translation: if your defensive tackles change their rush pattern, it leaves a hole for the middle linebacker to hit the quarterback)

 

Anyway, it's always fun when fans get together to talk about their favorite sport and how discussions go WAY deeper than expected.

[Johnny Fenoli]

Remi, could you explain the A1 offense to me a little bit? I've watched some videos on it, but I dont know anything about it, other than the highlight videos I've seen.

 

It appears to be a "super spread" formation, designed I guess to give smaller teams a shot? Spread out the field to make more opportunities.

 

If you had a "standard" team, as far as what you would expect for that level of competition, would your run this offense? OR would you go with something a little more conventional?

 

As, far as stopping it, I would think at first glance you would play bend but dont brake, keep everything in front of you style of defense? Contain the quarterback, and anyone else coming through on end arounds with ends or linebackers? Maybe run a 3-3-5 type of scheme?

 

It looks fun, because like you said the ball could be all over the freaking field, I'm intrested to know a few more ins and outs and things you can do out of it. That I might not have picked up on in the highlight videos.

[Remianen]

Remi, could you explain the A1 offense to me a little bit? I've watched some videos on it, but I dont know anything about it, other than the highlight videos I've seen.

 

It appears to be a "super spread" formation, designed I guess to give smaller teams a shot? Spread out the field to make more opportunities.

 

If you had a "standard" team, as far as what you would expect for that level of competition, would your run this offense? OR would you go with something a little more conventional?

 

As, far as stopping it, I would think at first glance you would play bend but dont brake, keep everything in front of you style of defense? Contain the quarterback, and anyone else coming through on end arounds with ends or linebackers? Maybe run a 3-3-5 type of scheme?

 

It looks fun, because like you said the ball could be all over the freaking field, I'm intrested to know a few more ins and outs and things you can do out of it. That I might not have picked up on in the highlight videos.

 

Yeah, exactly.

 

The A-11 is great for small teams that may not have 'blue chip' type players. Like, if your biggest O-lineman is 220 lbs, s/he (remember, Nick Mangold's sister Holley plays) isn't going to be blocking 250+ lb linebackers & d-linemen very effectively. So you turn the other team's strength(s) against them. Line up three people on the far left, three in the middle (in essence a center and two guards...but they're not o-linemen), and three on the right with two "quarterbacks" in the backfield and the defense doesn't know the three most important things:

 

1) Who's receiving the snap (is it run or pass? If it's a pass, who do you rush?)

2) Who's eligible to receive a pass? (so who do you cover?)

3) Where is the ball likely to be going? (if you don't know 1 & 2, how can you possibly know 3?)

 

The key to the A-11 is exploiting a loophole in the rules. Basic football rulebook at the high school level gave certain exemptions to certain formations (one of those being the kick or punt, usually called the 'scrimmage kick formation'). So if you lined up in that formation, anyone wearing an eligible jersey number (1-49 and 80-99) could be an eligible receiver. The rules state that there can only be 5 eligible receivers on a given play (except for things like some option plays/flea flickers/laterals) but the part that vexes defenses is....which five?! If the defense doesn't know who is actually eligible, they have to play read & react/Flex/bend but don't break. That flies in the face of current trends with exotic blitzes and coverage schemes. If all the defense can do is sit back and wait for something to happen, that can kill them. If you have superior athletes (speed kills, after all), it's easier to defend the A-11 but there aren't too many schools dripping with team speed and intelligence.

 

If you run a 3-3-5 against the A-11, you'd probably have to go light (so you'd load up on linebackers for the 3-3 or use big defensive backs and fast linebackers) since you want people who can fly to the ball to minimize YACs.

 

It's crazy fun to watch, especially when you get those kids on an opposing defense trying to be the hero and getting caught with a pump fake (Hello Toast!). High school rules were changed to ban the offense but they didn't go quite far enough. They basically added a requirement that offensive linemen be used (in the A-11, the three people in the middle pod are tight ends). So what the A-11 creators are doing is creating a new position (called 'anchor') that still isn't a lineman (they're mainly blocking tight ends) but can still advance the ball (laterals, pitches behind the line of scrimmage, etc). That's where the new loophole exists. Ever consider a 'left tackle option'? Meaning, you give your quarterbacks jersey numbers in the traditional lineman range (50-79), line them up as linemen, and have your running back receive the snap and lateral to the real quarterback. OMG chaos!

 

Read here for the way the new A-11 works now. It's even more crazy than it was originally!

[Johnny Fenoli]

I'd love to see a whole game.

 

I read that they dont think it would work in places like Texas, Florida, or Ohio.

 

What is your opinion... I'm not talking about one of these schools from their state, coming to Texas and taking on a Texas team, but rather a Texas team running the A11 vs another Texas team, for example.

 

They say a team with the athletes like they have in those states would be able to stop it easily, but in your opinion would that be so if the athletes where on both sides of the ball?

 

I played football all my life, and used to coach for years. This seems like something that I would draw up as a kid and play with in my head.

[jgriff3029]

Remi, the A11 has actually been banned in several states. The Nation High school Football federation is looking into banning it nation wide. A local team played Piedmont last year in the playoff. (Piedmonts coach is credited with designing the A11). The beat Piedmont rather easily. Once the players understood who was eligiable and who wasn't, they said it was fairly easy to defend.

 

My answers.

 

Favorite offense to play coach: The veer option. When ran right thier might not be a "prettier" or harder to defend offense.

 

Favorite offense to watch: the spread, so much action

 

Favorite defense: My high school team just installed a 3-3 defense due to injuries and we have had a lot of success with it.

 

Favorite defense to play: the 4-4

[Remianen]

Remi, the A11 has actually been banned in several states. The Nation High school Football federation is looking into banning it nation wide. A local team played Piedmont last year in the playoff. (Piedmonts coach is credited with designing the A11). The beat Piedmont rather easily. Once the players understood who was eligiable and who wasn't, they said it was fairly easy to defend.

 

I haven't heard that. I've heard about the rule changes early this year designed to close the loophole (i.e. the scrimmage kick thing) and a few others requiring the use of certain players wearing certain numbers lining up in certain places. But there are states that flat out banned the offense, in so many words? That seems awfully short-sighted. Kinda removes some amount of strategy, especially if they require or mandate kicking only on certain downs. Then again, I've called punts on 2nd down (their returner had fumbleitis and we were backed up to our 10. Punt to him, he fumbles, we're at the 44. First & 10! Fortuitous circumstance) so a grain of salt is required.

 

Johnny Fenoli, I don't think it would work well in the hotbed states (Texas, Florida, Ohio, maybe California & Pennsylvania) primarily because of the speed factor. The A-11 is designed to work with and for athletes who aren't top shelf in talent. It makes it so you don't really need an o-line averaging 230+ lbs with quick feet and long arms. If you have a line like that, with an abundance of backs and receivers with the typical gifts, the A-11 isn't the best use of your personnel. Sure, trotting it out every now and then would be fun (and a nice way to shake things up) but practice and game time should be used perfecting your primary system. My coach in high school had a handful of plays run from old school formations like the Wing-T, Flexbone, and Wishbone. We practiced that suite of plays once a week and that was it. I actually liken it to our team. We had a ton of speed but almost no size (there were exceptions but that was mainly true). So smashmouth wouldn't have worked too well. The West Coast offense was still really new (late 80s) so my coach went with what he thought was the next best thing: the Run & Shoot.

 

In my view, with top tier talent (we're talking physical gifts and mental aptitude), any offense can work against any defense (and possibly vice versa). At that point, it comes down to the mental and psychological side of things (as well as the chess game of playcalling). I used to tell my guys that I wanted at least two hats on every receiver, whether they caught the ball or not (legally, of course. I didn't advocate late hits). I also wanted my pass rushers to let the quarterback know they were there (tap him on the shoulder or pat him on the helmet or the butt to let him know he got the ball off just before you could cream him). That injects the mental part of things. Quarterbacks get antsy, feeling phantom pressure. Receivers "hear footsteps". That's when you'll tend to have breakdowns. But system to system, the A-11 is fairly easy to stop (but still fun to watch) if you have the personnel (and they stick to their assignments, ARGH! ).

[jgriff3029]

I know for sure that California has banned it and have heard as many as 9 states have.

 

After rereading your post I think we are saying the same thing. I guess it's not truely banned however many restrictions have been put on it. When I said banned, I meant the true "All 11 eligable" was no longer legal in several states. You can however still run a "dumbed" down version of it. I have also read the coaches that created it are trying to fight the "ban" in court.