The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[K-Nection]

I want AJ to get the W but I know good and well this will either end in some kind of overbooked Draw or Brock will win clean.

[smurphy1014]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="K-Nection" data-cite="K-Nection" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div> or Brock will win clean.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Or Jinder interferes to help Brock win.</p>

[milamber]

<p><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">NXT Takeover War Games:</span></strong></p><p> </p><p>

<strong>Ohno vs Lars</strong> - Fun big man extended squash. Lars has Strowman potential.</p><p>

<strong>Black vs Velveteen Dream</strong> - MOTY Contender. Perfect combo of wrestling, storytelling, character and psychology. Black is main roster ready. Velveteen has morphed into a mix of Rick Rude, Tyler Breeze & Prince and made the gimmick work beyond expectation. Sky's the limit for him.</p><p>

<strong>Women's Fatal Fourway</strong> - Good match free from the usual clunkiness in multi-women NXT matches but it could have gone a bit longer. Peyton continues to improve. Kairi almost screwed up a pin break. I would have preferred Peyton win but Ember has worked hard enough to deserve it.</p><p>

<strong>Almas vs McIntyre</strong> - Great match. I marked out for Almas winning! I thought Cole vs McIntyre was the plan going forward so it was a surprise. Zelina Vega is a uniquely talented manager. Shame Drew got injured.</p><p>

<strong>War Games</strong> - Entertaining and brutal clusterfork, better than the average WWE HIAC or Cage match. I could have watched another half hour LOL. It was a strong effort from all 9 guys. The only negative was the mixed bag camerawork.</p><p> </p><p>

<strong>Verdict:</strong> Another successful Takeover. MVPs: Velveteen Dream and Killian Dain.</p><p> </p><p>

<img alt="N63buHv.jpg" data-src="https://i.imgur.com/N63buHv.jpg" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[dvdWarrior]

<p>Really enjoyed the show, myself.</p><p> </p><p>

WarGames was probably my all time favorite gimmick match, (that or the Royal Rumble), so it was good to see it return. A little put off by the rule changes, and the lack of a top... at first. Came around by the end. Was really impressed with the match. Annoyed a few friends and family members on Facebook with my customary "ADAM COLE, BAY-BAY!!!!!!" post, so that was fun.</p><p> </p><p>

I hadn't been especially impressed with The Velveteen Dream... until last night. He showed me something, and, dare I say, I think I've become a fan.</p><p> </p><p>

Surprised by the finish in the World title match, and Drew landing on his head was a little on the hard to watch side. Great match, though.</p><p> </p><p>

Very good show, anxious to see what Survivor Series has up its sleeve.</p><p> </p><p>

Been arguing with folks all morning that AJ was NOT going to be destroyed, (they don't seem to have much faith in the Phenomenal One). Really hope I'm proven to be right on this one, I'm an AJ fan. Hope to see him win.</p>

[Macca316]

<p>Really enjoyed Takeover, been off work for the past few weeks so was catching up with NXT.</p><p> </p><p>

<strong>Ohno vs Lars</strong> - Was an alright match, I just feel sad for Hero/Ohno, I feel he is hampered by his weight somewhat, I remember the glory days of PWG & ROH when he was alot smaller, Lars is a fun impressive big man, will be fun to see if he develops like a Strowman.</p><p> </p><p>

<strong>Black vs Velveteen Dream</strong> - Excellent match, Dream made a fan out of me, Black even more so, I hope the main roster doesn't ruin him.</p><p> </p><p>

<strong>Women's Fatal Fourway</strong> - Good match, predictable result but good, I was looking for either Kairi or Nikki to win but Ember was the logical choice.</p><p> </p><p>

<strong>Almas vs McIntyre</strong> - Seemed like a slow and clunky start before they started to gel, feels like it ended abruptly and Almas looked genuinly shocked, I can't tell if he wasn't expecting to win or if he's just good at acting.</p><p> </p><p>

<strong>War Games </strong>- Cluster, but fun, felt like it went on for a good bit, some of the bumps though, Wolfe ripping his head open on the table bump and Cole coming off the top via the Suplex, actually made me feel uncomfortable.</p><p> </p><p>

Overall really enjoyed the show</p>

[Alan James]

<p>Tonight was enjoyable for the most part. The main event was a bit gamey but Braun made up for a bit afterwards. Triple did sell the fear well.</p><p> </p><p>

AJ VS Brock was a good match.</p>

[CQI13]

Really enjoyed Takeover, been off work for the past few weeks so was catching up with NXT.

 

Ohno vs Lars - Was an alright match, I just feel sad for Hero/Ohno, I feel he is hampered by his weight somewhat, I remember the glory days of PWG & ROH when he was alot smaller, Lars is a fun impressive big man, will be fun to see if he develops like a Strowman.

 

Black vs Velveteen Dream - Excellent match, Dream made a fan out of me, Black even more so, I hope the main roster doesn't ruin him.

 

Women's Fatal Fourway - Good match, predictable result but good, I was looking for either Kairi or Nikki to win but Ember was the logical choice.

 

Almas vs McIntyre - Seemed like a slow and clunky start before they started to gel, feels like it ended abruptly and Almas looked genuinly shocked, I can't tell if he wasn't expecting to win or if he's just good at acting.

 

War Games - Cluster, but fun, felt like it went on for a good bit, some of the bumps though, Wolfe ripping his head open on the table bump and Cole coming off the top via the Suplex, actually made me feel uncomfortable.

 

Overall really enjoyed the show

 

Shame any of them need to go to the main roster. I would like to see some sort of rotation where RAW or SD guys (2?) go to NXT and in exchange NXt goes to RAW or SD. Don't announce it's temporary, but it gives creative the chance to try something and not flush a year's worth of character development.

[milamber]

<p><strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Survivor Series:</span></strong></p><p> </p><p>

<strong>New Day vs Shield</strong> - Good match but should have been a Tornado Tag.</p><p>

<strong>Women's SS</strong> - Solid match. Started off slow with weird eliminations but picked up halfway through and Asuka winning was the best choice. Becky out first while pushing Tamina was lame.</p><p>

<strong>Corbin vs Miz</strong> - Solid match. Corbin has been booked well since dropping the MITB.</p><p>

<strong>The Bar vs Usos</strong> - Good match.</p><p>

<strong>Charlotte vs Alexa</strong> - Good match. One of Alexa's better performance's but it was Charlotte's top notch selling that made Alexa look like a million bucks.</p><p>

<strong>Styles vs Lesnar</strong> - Good match. Thanks goodness it delivered because it was the only match I was invested in. I'm not even that mad Styles lost.</p><p>

<strong>Men's SS</strong> - Solid match. Where it lacked in technical wrestling it made up for it with pop-worthy face-offs. I hope Shane being a dumbass is part of his storyline, already foreshadowed with Bryan losing faith in him. The weird ending also seemed designed simply to set up a Strowman/Trips match.</p><p> </p><p>

<strong><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Verdict:</span></strong> It was never going to beat NXT Takeover but for once the main roster PPV wasn't completely overshadowed. MVPs: Charlotte & Styles.</p>

[Macca316]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="CQI13" data-cite="CQI13" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Shame any of them need to go to the main roster. I would like to see some sort of rotation where RAW or SD guys (2?) go to NXT and in exchange NXt goes to RAW or SD. Don't announce it's temporary, but it gives creative the chance to try something and not flush a year's worth of character development.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Exactly, WWE are obsessed with a gimmick being instantly over and when its not they lose faith and say "well they are a failure"</p><p> </p><p> I remember listening to I believe Raven in an interview once where he said that back in the day you were given months to get the gimmick over and connect with the fans, and its shows.</p><p> </p><p> WWE expect instant results but do little to nothing to help, How many NXT darlings have debuted on the main roster with no fanfare and been left to slowly die... </p><p> </p><p> Not all WWE Raw & Smackdown viewers watch NXT so they don't understand why they should care.</p>

[milamber]

So after the return/debuts on Raw, Smackdown are going to need Ember, Peyton and Billie soon. Or they can continue with the Tamina experiment <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/frown.png.e6b571745a30fe6a6f2e918994141a47.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />

[Mootinie]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Macca316" data-cite="Macca316" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Exactly, WWE are obsessed with a gimmick being instantly over and when its not they lose faith and say "well they are a failure"<p> </p><p> I remember listening to I believe Raven in an interview once where he said that back in the day you were given months to get the gimmick over and connect with the fans, and its shows.</p><p> </p><p> WWE expect instant results but do little to nothing to help, How many NXT darlings have debuted on the main roster with no fanfare and been left to slowly die... </p><p> </p><p> Not all WWE Raw & Smackdown viewers watch NXT so they don't understand why they should care.</p></div></blockquote><p> No, NXT is the problem. They fail time and time again to equip their talent with the skills needed to succeed as main roster performers.</p>

[Derek B]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Mootinie" data-cite="Mootinie" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>No, NXT is the problem. They fail time and time again to equip their talent with the skills needed to succeed as main roster performers.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> With NXT being fully under the conttol of the WWE, it would indeed seem to be a WWE issue to me. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png"> You'll have to give a pretty strong argument on why you believe this to be the case.,, one I'm happy to read, as there is clearly some disconnect between WWE and NXT.</p>

[Mootinie]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Derek B" data-cite="Derek B" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>With NXT being fully under the conttol of the WWE, it would indeed seem to be a WWE issue to me. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> You'll have to give a pretty strong argument on why you believe this to be the case.,, one I'm happy to read, as there is clearly some disconnect between WWE and NXT.</div></blockquote><p> Well yes, it is an issue for both. <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> My contention is that you cannot retread the steps you took in NXT. You can't do the Bayley moment again, you can't start fresh with Jason Jordan refusing to say the catchphrase, you can't do whatever they did to get Shinsuke over (nothing?). That development is done, so the question is always "what's next?" and in several cases, the talent has either failed to adapt their character beyond the one they portrayed on NXT television or failed to generate enough interest in their program for people to see their upside. The main roster brings fresh challenges and the actual talent on the roster rises above them. Let's not forget that Kevin Owens was in some pretty drab, forgettable programs but he was never not entertaining, hence why he's been such a resounding success ever since his debut. Braun Strowman has followed in his footsteps, everything he does is fun to watch even when it might appear corny on paper. He makes it work.</p><p> </p><p> There's also an argument for them as television characters reaching the end of their arc. Bayley, again, was done as far as a TV character goes when she finished up in NXT. Bobby Roode was much the same, there's little you can do with a villain like him once he's been defeated. Best to write them off and start building the next big evil, only you can't do that in WWE because the squeaky wheel keeps on turning. Characters that have made the transition from NXT TV to WWE TV successfully are often the ones that had incomplete story arcs upon their call-up, NXT would be best served leaving the main roster writers something to chew on with regards the narratives of their characters instead of bringing them to completion.</p><p> </p><p> Really, it's on NXT to make sure all their talents are prepared to play a role different from the one they've been portraying for a while now and it's often the simplicity of NXT's old-school storylines that leaves them ill-prepared. They don't need to be dynamic down there so the challenge they face is obviously a culture shock. Whether heel or babyface, they need to have the capacity to carry a program with their personality, their charisma and of course, their in-ring ability. They need to be taught how to make the most of their limited air-time too, because with so much competition fighting for your spot, you simply cannot afford to not shine. And several talents just don't look as good under the bright lights of RAW or SmackDown.</p>

[MightyDavidson]

Yeah dude, NXT is not at fault here. What's at fault is the booking of wrestlers on the main roster. In NXT they're given time to build up their character and many of the wrestlers there showed they have the skills needed to survive in a competently booked wrestling federation. Sadly these days WWE main roster is not competently booked and so NXT guys who move up are given no time to establish themselves or are given early success and their legs are cut out from under them. We see it time and time again.

[Rone Rivendale]

Paige's new stable is going to be great for the Raw women's division. They already had more talent than SD's side, but this makes for new storylines and that's always a good thing. Having talent doesn't automatically make you better.

[Blackman]

<p>I agree with milander on everything. I predicted Sasha & Asuka remaining at the end but the double crapfinish was awful. Liked the build on Styles vs Lesnar.</p><p>

Ending was indeed superweird and superslow with Trips doing stupid mindgames that make no sense. If this was about being "the man", he sure made himself look stupid.</p><p> </p><p>

NXT was perhaps better in general, but here as well the main event didn't fully delivered on the hype even though it was awesome. It had one Wargames spot that was nice, and they shoved some guys from one ring to the other. Why have a Wargames at all? The concept also doesn't really strike me as nice, turning it into a 3vs1vs1 after a couple of minutes. I loved Velveteen vs Black.</p><p> </p><p>

As for RAW: Paige's return was nice, but the new "faction" weirded me out a bit. Concerned if they have any chemistry at all or if it's merely a triple debut.</p>

[Mootinie]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Rone Rivendale" data-cite="Rone Rivendale" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Paige's new stable is going to be great for the Raw women's division. They already had more talent than SD's side, but this makes for new storylines and that's always a good thing. Having talent doesn't automatically make you better.</div></blockquote><p> I wonder if they're ready for Asuka.</p>

[milamber]

Smackdown copying Raw with 3 similar women and carbon copy beatdowns but instead using 3 babyfaces with no starpower like Paige was some A-Grade lazy creative work. I mean, Ruby fits being a heel but Sarah and Liv scream babyface to me.

 

Does that mean that Alexa and Natalya will end up turning babyface/tweener to stop the new factions? The only thing that could salvage this for me (at least on the SD side) is if Paige reveals herself as the mastermind behind both factions (making it a proper invasion)... or they call up a few more women (*cough* The Iconic Duo *cough*) and start a cross-brand tag division.

[Mootinie]

I've heard rumours that they'd like to do a women's Royal Rumble match so it wouldn't surprise me at all if these call-ups were to bolster the divisions for that.

[Rone Rivendale]

Maybe Paige is the mastermind behind both Trios? The NEW Women's revolution or something. I'm behind it.

[CQI13]

<p>On the subject of the main roster creative/NXT creative debate: if the creative team can't come up with something for the workers being called up they need to get other writers. That's their job. I understand not everyone is a home run hitter when they are called up, but they should have a role.</p><p> </p><p>

That's why I think sending people to NXT from the main roster ahould be more common. Gives creative time to do something for when they come back, adds star power to NXT, and let's you test a possible feud or two.</p><p> </p><p>

Also, seeing the last few months by way of recaps on the PPVs it is hopefully a sign of good things to come for Breezango and Drew Gulak. Those three have shown that if you are given a silly gimmick by creative you run with it. As campy/hokey as the Fashion Files is, those two play it as if it was serious. Guessing that commitment is what they were looking from Emma with Emmalina?</p>

[milamber]

<p>Imagine how much better an Aussie stable of Emma, Peyton and Billie on Smackdown would have been instead of Ruby (who I do like) paired with 2 random women they had nothing left for in NXT. Makes me mad all over again they fired Emma.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="CQI13" data-cite="CQI13" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>On the subject of the main roster creative/NXT creative debate: if the creative team can't come up with something for the workers being called up they need to get other writers. That's their job. I understand not everyone is a home run hitter when they are called up, but they should have a role.<p> </p><p> That's why I think sending people to NXT from the main roster ahould be more common. Gives creative time to do something for when they come back, adds star power to NXT, and let's you test a possible feud or two.</p><p> </p><p> Also, seeing the last few months by way of recaps on the PPVs it is hopefully a sign of good things to come for Breezango and Drew Gulak. Those three have shown that if you are given a silly gimmick by creative you run with it. As campy/hokey as the Fashion Files is, those two play it as if it was serious. Guessing that commitment is what they were looking from Emma with Emmalina?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Commitment only gets you so far... ask Sandow. Then again, he was pretty average in the ring.</p>

[CQI13]

<p>Fair enough. He still got that hot storyline with Cody and the MITB payoff. Even that gimmick isn't as bad as what was pitched to Breezango.</p><p> </p><p>

I would add that sometimes the NXT gimmicks are just that - NXT gimmicks. Prince Pretty never struck me as a main roster gimmick. But then it is yhe main roster writers' job to find something.</p>

[milamber]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="CQI13" data-cite="CQI13" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I would add that sometimes the NXT gimmicks are just that - NXT gimmicks. Prince Pretty never struck me as a main roster gimmick. But then it is yhe main roster writers' job to find something.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Agreed. Some NXT gimmicks don't work at all on the main roster. Some need tweaking or early backstage segments to get them over with the new audience (see American Alpha). Some gimmicks come to the end of their natural character arc in NXT (see Bayley) but the main roster writers run with it anyway.</p><p> </p><p> The biggest problem is Vince not planning far enough ahead to care, unless HHH goes into bat for a wrestler or it's a pet project (see Reigns and Lesnar). Even then plans can change at a moment's notice.</p>

[Blackman]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="milamber" data-cite="milamber" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Imagine how much better an Aussie stable of Emma, Peyton and Billie on Smackdown would have been instead of Ruby (who I do like) paired with 2 random women they had nothing left for in NXT. Makes me mad all over again they fired Emma.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I almost forgot about that being a possibility. That would've freshened up her character for sure. It even fit the "ego" gimmick well. I was contemplating cancelling my subscription (as I basically only watch PPV's nowadays) and this might just make me click that button. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> But as someone says, they are banking on the NXT aura, which will fade away quickly on the main roster. And as I mentioned, the chemistry between these two trios seems average at best. Their color schemes don't even match. Paige, Miss Sanity & Ruby would've been way more intriguing imo.</p>