The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Makhai]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="milamber" data-cite="milamber" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>According to Meltzer Becky and Ronda's segments are getting better ratings than anyone else in the company. No surprise there.<p> </p><p> I really wish they would move Royal Rumble to February and move Fastlane to January. That way they wouldn't need to add so many crazy twists and turns to keep the storylines interesting until Mania.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I don't doubt this, Ronda is the biggest star in that company bar Cena, and I question if she hasn't passed him at this point. But something to keep in mind is, she's gone in April, as far as I'm aware. Will she be back? Don't know, she's got enough money to hang it up and be Mamma Rousey if that's what she wants. She said when she started MMA the plan was to be fully retired by 30. This would be a pretty good time to close the book, barring the match falling on its face.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Blackman" data-cite="Blackman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Well... "ratings" is a loose term nowadays. He probably means youtube segment viewership, and you can easily see their segments are watched the most. It's impossible that people know when the segment will be so they can tune in, and they can't monitor ratings by the minute (and people don't zap every minute, at least not anymore).<p> </p><p> As for the 145 pounds argument: let's not go back to the '80s. And it's not like they are fighting for the HW championship that Rey Mysterio once held. Now THAT was moronic.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Meltzer has a lot of friends in cable and satellite, as well as Neilsen. This is where he gets his numbers, and as things have shifted away from this he's been flying blinder and blinder. What we do know is that Mid-low 2M viewers in Mania season is an awful omen of how deep the football troth will be their entire business is based on TV contracts, they've gotta give us a product that's watchable at some point, or they will be Impact, that's just what the trend-line should be telling them.</p><p> </p><p> As to the Graham comments, he's a dying wrestler from a by-gone era who still sees wrestling as it was when he was on top. You've gotta just understand that at some point and pick out the stuff that's important. Like Jim Cornette is a great commentator with a thick chub for by-gone Southern bingo-hall wrestling. I don't blame him, he had his most fun being chased by crazed rednecks in Louisiana with Watts and wants people to have as much fun as he did when everybody made a living in the business and weren't begging for $100 dates when a doctors visit costs $100,000 or let the WWE call you Cassius Ohno and suck your soul out with a straw.</p><p> </p><p> You kinda just have to filter stuff he says through that prism and once you do you can get the point out of it.</p>

[milamber]

<p>My favorite part of SD</p><p> </p><p>

<img alt="MwwpvR.gif" data-src="https://j.gifs.com/MwwpvR.gif" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Greylocke]

<p>I'm personally still skeptical about Rousey leaving after Mania. I'm still of the opinion that they're going to at least run a "MMA 4 Horsewomen vs NXT 4 Horsewomen" feud before she leaves, and Charlotte winning the title now (and apparently not having to defend it at Mania) seems like a setup leading to all 4 NXT HW holding titles at the end of Mania and Rousey bringing in the other 3 MMA HW to feud against them post-Mania.</p><p> </p><p>

In fact, I wouldn't put it past them to have all 8 of them being involved at the WM main event (with the non-competitors running interference) to kick-off the feud. Or even revealing that Charlotte and Becky's rivalry had been a farce all along and they were really getting both of them into the WM main event just so that Rousey can lose the title in a protected manner after getting double-teamed by both of them.</p>

[Makhai]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Greylocke" data-cite="Greylocke" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm personally still skeptical about Rousey leaving after Mania. I'm still of the opinion that they're going to at least run a "MMA 4 Horsewomen vs NXT 4 Horsewomen" feud before she leaves, and Charlotte winning the title now (and apparently not having to defend it at Mania) seems like a setup leading to all 4 NXT HW holding titles at the end of Mania and Rousey bringing in the other 3 MMA HW to feud against them post-Mania.<p> </p><p> In fact, I wouldn't put it past them to have all 8 of them being involved at the WM main event (with the non-competitors running interference) to kick-off the feud. Or even revealing that Charlotte and Becky's rivalry had been a farce all along and they were really getting both of them into the WM main event just so that Rousey can lose the title in a protected manner after getting double-teamed by both of them.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Possible, but doubtful considering we're going to get the Stephanie McMahon crying curtain call gimmick when this thing is over.</p>

[Greylocke]

<p>I'm not predicting that the mass interference at the WM main event will happen, or the HW feud kicking off right there, just that I wouldn't put it past them.</p><p> </p><p>

I'm fairly positive about WM ending with all 4 NXT HW in the ring holding titles, though. It doesn't really contradict Steph's curtain call. She can still be right there in the ring with them taking the centre of the spotlight.</p><p> </p><p>

WWE these days is just obsessed with re-creating "historical moments" these days. They book all kinds of unnecessary rehashed garbage with Kofi's storyline (getting the McMahons involved, calling him B+ player) just to turn him into Daniel Bryan 2014 V2 when the story would have been perfectly fine without those stuff. They did the same with Becky with all the unfair suspensions, illegal entries and getting arrested stuff to turn her into the next Stone Cold. Now I warrant they want to give the NXT HW the 2004 Benoit/Guerrero moment with "best friends achieving their dreams together on the big stage" highlight reel.</p>

[milamber]

The latest rumor is that the Evolution PPV won't be back this year because Rousey might not be available to star in it. I can see that being true but it also shows a lack of faith in the other women.

 

https://411mania.com/wrestling/wwe-no-evolution-ppv-without-ronda-rousey/

 

Also Rousey's status is why Becky will probably tap her out, leaving Charlotte with her Smackdown title (as per the rumored rules of the match) and a reason for a future match between the 2.

[Makhai]

The latest rumor is that the Evolution PPV won't be back this year because Rousey might not be available to star in it.

 

https://411mania.com/wrestling/wwe-no-evolution-ppv-without-ronda-rousey/

 

I can see that being true but it also shows a lack of faith in the other women.

 

What a really transparent way to say Rousey is the only credible woman on the roster, everybody else is midcard garbage. And for no reason either, it's not like they have to even draw, it's just content for WWE Network, you could just do another Event that month.

[eayragt]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Makhai" data-cite="Makhai" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>What a really transparent way to say Rousey is the only credible woman on the roster, everybody else is midcard garbage. And for no reason either, it's not like they have to even draw, it's just content for WWE Network, you could just do another Event that month.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It doesn't say that.</p>

[BHK1978]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Greylocke" data-cite="Greylocke" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>WWE these days is just obsessed with re-creating "historical moments" these days. They book all kinds of unnecessary rehashed garbage with Kofi's storyline (getting the McMahons involved, calling him B+ player) just to turn him into Daniel Bryan 2014 V2 when the story would have been perfectly fine without those stuff. They did the same with Becky with all the unfair suspensions, illegal entries and getting arrested stuff to turn her into the next Stone Cold. Now I warrant they want to give the NXT HW the 2004 Benoit/Guerrero moment with "best friends achieving their dreams together on the big stage" highlight reel.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I have read, and I am not sure how much of it is true, that Vince at one time said he likes to recycle past angles and gimmicks every seven years or so. The thinking behind this is that, that is enough time for the average fan to forget about a gimmick or the average amount of time for the turnover of fans. The one that stood out to me was the whole Chris Masters/Hercules Hernandez & Billy Jack Haynes nobody can break out of a full nelson gimmick.</p><p> </p><p> I read an article talking about how today was Jim Ross' last day with the company. The article said that Ross was the unquestionable voice of the company. Now I think it is debatable because while I think Jim Ross is one of the all-time best, when I think of the "voice" of the WWWF/WWF/WWE to me it is always going to be Gorilla Monsoon. In fact part of me will always see Ross as an NWA announcer first, even though he did his most prolific work in the WWF.</p><p> </p><p> I guess it comes down to who was the "voice" when you grew up. Hell there is going to be a whole generation who will view Michael Cole as the "voice", it makes me cringe just to write that but it is the truth.</p><p> </p><p> All I know is, whenever there is a sneak attack in wrestling I always think, he just Pearl Harbored him and that was from hours and hours of hearing Gorilla saying it over and over again.</p>

[Makhai]

I have read, and I am not sure how much of it is true, that Vince at one time said he likes to recycle past angles and gimmicks every seven years or so. The thinking behind this is that, that is enough time for the average fan to forget about a gimmick or the average amount of time for the turnover of fans. The one that stood out to me was the whole Chris Masters/Hercules Hernandez & Billy Jack Haynes nobody can break out of a full nelson gimmick.

 

I read an article talking about how today was Jim Ross' last day with the company. The article said that Ross was the unquestionable voice of the company. Now I think it is debatable because while I think Jim Ross is one of the all-time best, when I think of the "voice" of the WWWF/WWF/WWE to me it is always going to be Gorilla Monsoon. In fact part of me will always see Ross as an NWA announcer first, even though he did his most prolific work in the WWF.

 

I guess it comes down to who was the "voice" when you grew up. Hell there is going to be a whole generation who will view Michael Cole as the "voice", it makes me cringe just to write that but it is the truth.

 

All I know is, whenever there is a sneak attack in wrestling I always think, he just Pearl Harbored him and that was from hours and hours of hearing Gorilla saying it over and over again.

 

Every promoter in history recycles angles and gimmicks over the years. Storytelling in and of itself is the art of telling the same 12 or 14 stories in new ways. The art is in how you tell it, not the story itself. If you're a good enough writer you can use the same formula and just change the premise, and the characters and succeed. See my states favorite son, Steven King, dude releases the same 5 or 6 archetypes, and prints 4 books a year. It's really not as hard as people make it out to be. The problems start when you start adding 14 chefs that are all trying to pull Vince in 19 directions when Vince himself changes his mind every other minute.

[Blackman]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="eayragt" data-cite="eayragt" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It doesn't say that.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> No but that is how it comes across. It won't cost them much to organise and it'll draw, even if it's just the 'woke/sjw' crowd. The RR matches were awesome and there are enough belts and credible workers around.</p><p> </p><p> Lame excuse and bad communication.</p>

[milamber]

<img alt="i9SRkLO.jpg" data-src="https://i.imgur.com/i9SRkLO.jpg" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />

[Greylocke]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BHK1978" data-cite="BHK1978" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I have read, and I am not sure how much of it is true, that Vince at one time said he likes to recycle past angles and gimmicks every seven years or so. The thinking behind this is that, that is enough time for the average fan to forget about a gimmick or the average amount of time for the turnover of fans. The one that stood out to me was the whole Chris Masters/Hercules Hernandez & Billy Jack Haynes nobody can break out of a full nelson gimmick.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I don't mind gimmicks and storylines rehash in general. I should have put more emphasis on <em>unncessary</em> rehash. Kofi wasn't having any problem getting over as the next mega-face heading into the WM title match ever since his performance in the first gauntlet and the Elimination Chamber. There was NO REASON WHATSOEVER to get the McMahons involved in this. All these callbacks to Bryan's old feud with the B+ player references just feel so arbitrary and forced. It feels like a <em>manufactured</em> feud, which we know it is of course, but Bryan's rise to the main event in 2014 actually felt organic, Kofi's could have been, too, up till Elimination Chamber.</p><p> </p><p> And did we really have to see Becky to another Stone Cold-style entrance via a police car after being arrested? Again, Becky was over as Becky, not because she suddenly and inexplicably had to deal with oppressive authority figures and unfair rules.</p><p> </p><p> None of the callbacks added anything to the characters or stories. In this cases, not even nostalgia.</p>

[milamber]

Too many matches I don't care about on the Mania card so here's my Takeover: New York predictions instead.

 

Black & Ricochet vs War Raiders ©

WALTER vs Dunne ©

Riddle vs Dream ©

Io vs Kairi vs Bianca vs Shayna ©

Cole vs Gargano (Vacant WWE Championship)

 

WALTER has to win because Dunne has beaten everyone else worthy of a title shot. Black & Ricochet as Dual or Triple Tag Champions would be cool and this is the only chance for it to happen. I’m not keen on Riddle losing but I can’t see Dream losing the title so soon. I’m expecting Sasha & Bayley to put their titles on the line against the Sky Pirates at Takeover: San Jose so Bianca wins here and goes 1v1 against Shayna in San Jose. I think Undisputed do a clean sweep of the titles no earlier than Takeover: Toronto in August so Gargano wins here.

[Rone Rivendale]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="milamber" data-cite="milamber" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> Cole vs <strong>Gargano</strong> (Vacant WWE Championship)</p><p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Oh really? <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /><img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Greylocke]

I can't wait for Vince's reaction to the announcement that Bryan and Kofi are both out of the WWE Title match for unknown reason and 2 D+ players from NXT will be competing for the vacant title instead.

[Makhai]

Too many matches I don't care about on the Mania card so here's my Takeover: New York predictions instead.

 

Black & Ricochet vs War Raiders ©

WALTER vs Dunne ©

Riddle vs Dream ©

Io vs Kairi vs Bianca vs Shayna ©

Cole vs Gargano (Vacant WWE Championship)

 

WALTER has to win because Dunne has beaten everyone else worthy of a title shot. Black & Ricochet as Dual or Triple Tag Champions would be cool and this is the only chance for it to happen. I’m not keen on Riddle losing but I can’t see Dream losing the title so soon. I’m expecting Sasha & Bayley to put their titles on the line against the Sky Pirates at Takeover: San Jose so Bianca wins here and goes 1v1 against Shayna in San Jose. I think Undisputed do a clean sweep of the titles no earlier than Takeover: Toronto in August so Gargano wins here.

 

I don't think they're going to take the belt off Shayna, because they're not going to call her up, she's not hussied up enough and Vince doesn't know how to use her, she's headed to Bayleyville once she hits the main card, if I was her I'd jump ship ASAP and I stay down in NXT where Regal and HHH can use me for as long as I can.

 

Also, don't see Walter taking the strap here. But I do see Dream dropping the belt to Riddle and appearing on the RAW after mania, possibly to stay.

[Jaysin]

<p>WALTER rules</p><p> </p><p>

Takeover once again delivers.</p>

[milamber]

<p><strong>Black & Ricochet vs War Raiders ©</strong> - Great match with some fun spots. The early show of respect was cool. That's how you book babyfaces against each other. I'm shocked Vince didn't want to put every tag title on Black & Ricochet because it would be historic. Dual Champions is still a possibility. <strong>**** 1/2</strong></p><p>

<strong>Riddle vs Dream ©</strong> - Great match with strong character work. Another show of respect. Liberty Dream entrance ftw! <strong>**** 1/4</strong></p><p>

<strong>WALTER vs Dunne ©</strong> - Brutal slow-burn match. WALTER winning was the right choice. No one else was worthy of beating Dunne. <strong>****1/2</strong></p><p>

<strong>Kairi vs Bianca vs Io vs Shayna ©</strong> - Great match. Another result that shocked me. I thought Bianca would win. I love the Sky Pirates. <strong>**** 1/4</strong></p><p>

<strong>Cole vs Gargano (Vacant WWE Championship)</strong> - Epic match. The 2 interference pinfalls near the end had me fooled. Gargano got the Triple Crown! Babyface Ciampa LOL. <strong>*****</strong></p><p> </p><p>

<strong>Notes:</strong> One of the best Takeovers ever. No weak matches and they all felt unique, hot crowd, top notch video packages. The length of the event was draining, though. Kayla Braxton should stick to interviewing until she learns to ring announce with enthusiasm.</p>

[BHK1978]

<p>What the hell was that attack on Bret Hart all about? People are such idiots. </p><p> </p><p>

That dude was either stoned or drunk, because nobody in their right mind would attack someone in a room full of professional athletes who could kick your ass.</p>

[eayragt]

Hope Dash Wilder doesn't get into too much trouble. But he did suckerpunch a restrained, defenseless man, even though it was fully deserved...

[milamber]

Dash wasn't the only 1 to get some punches in. The guy is Zach Madsen, an amateur MMA fighter, with a record of 2-1. He's tagged a lot of WWE stars on Twitter with dumb tweets. Either he's mentally ill or an attention seeker.

[Greylocke]

<p>NXT Takeovers are nice in that they're always a fun watch, even when I can't get invested enough in most of their characters and stories to follow their usual TV shows anymore. It's like going to the theatres to watch fast-paced superhero action movies. I don't have to think too much about whether the stories make sense or who I want to win or lose, I'm just there to watch sh1t blow up and have fun. Sadly, the same things can't be said for WWE's main PPVs.</p><p> </p><p>

The opening match was an entertaining spotfest. Stuff like this is why I'd always watch pro wrestling over MMA and shoot fights. You just don't see stuff like that in "legit" fights, and that's something I won't ever want to change. And I'm happy that the legit tag team won over the random solo pairings. I guess I'm somewhat more tolerant of this pairing on this show, as the post-match bows indicate that this was mostly a way to get both guys on the show to give them a nice send-off before they depart for the main roster permanently. Still don't get why they're teaming up on the main shows, though. There's no rhyme or reason to it.</p><p> </p><p>

Dream and Riddle seem to have great chemistry, their timing and spots are the most coordinated out of all the match-ups. This almost gave Dunn/Walter a run for its money as MOTN contender. And the right guy went over. They certainly don't need 2 transitional champions in a row. And good to see that they're still making some effort to at least keep up the illusion that NXT's purpose is to actually build their own stars like Velveteen Dream and not just a place to showcase established stars that they buy off other companies or other sports.</p><p> </p><p>

UK title match was the only one I was really emotionally-invested in, since NXT UK was the one WWE show I still follow besides Smackdown. Pete Dunn delivers the goods, as usual. Perfect psychology beginning to end, although the ending was a little obvious once Dunn tried to lock that submission hold on the top rope. I don't care that he no longer has the belt, Dunn will remain the best champion in WWE in the past 5 years. Slight worry that it might be a while before they can build up another contender to be a convincing threat to Walter after his dominating performance.</p><p> </p><p>

The women had a tough act to follow, as the crowd was clearly burnt out after the last 3 matches, but they did a great job getting them back into the action towards the later part. Good building of conflict and tension between the Sky Pirates. Not really a fan of Bianca tapping out, since I though a multi-person match would have provided a way for her to continue making her "undefeated" claim, but it's a minor quibble, not really enough to bring down my enjoyment.</p><p> </p><p>

The main event....man, this was the exact same thing I was complaining about the building for the WM main event: their booking team's love of adding unnecessary convoluted twists and turns where they're not needed. Gargano's heel turn was stupid to begin with, so was the fake DIY reunion, and that short transitional reign as North American Champion raises the question of why the hell does he deserve another shot at the bigger title other then him having an existing rivalry with the champion (which became moot after Ciampa got injured and somehow Gargano still gets the match for free while his opponent had to earn his spot....how does that make him the face?). If they hadn't added all these convoluted twists, Gargano could have gotten his perfect Cinderella story of winning the title AND beating his rival and nemesis in the process to give the year-long feud the perfect blow-off it deserved. But noooooo, they had to go drag it out until Ciampa is now unable to finish the story. And apparently after everything he did to get revenge Gargano is somehow the upright babyface again. It's almost funny the way they still tried to establish him as an honourable guy who refused to take a countout win.....the same honourable guy who injured an innocent third party in order to get a 1-on-1 match with Ciampa. It wasn't even as if he needed Aleister to be out of the way to get at Ciampa, he was already in the title match. A guy who's THAT desperate to win the title should be happy to get a win any way he can and not worry about a minor detail like countouts. You can tell the crowd wasn't buying him as the face at first, Adam Cole was getting louder cheers despite being the blatant heel, and there was a pretty massive BOO when Gargano won the second fall. It took them giving him a John-Cena style superface push, overcoming 4-on-1 odds, to get the crowd back on his side again for the third fall. All these would have been unnecessary if they didn't try that stupid heel turn to begin with.</p><p> </p><p>

This is so much similar to the WM main event situation. The crowd was cheering for Gargano at the end because they appreciate Gargano the person (much like they appreciate Rebecca Quin, the worker behind Becky Lynch's persona), not because the booking was doing him any favours. Same way Ciampa got an appreciative cheer when he showed up at the end despite him being the most dastardly villain character on NXT for the entire year.</p>

[milamber]

<p>The man who beats WALTER should be Devlin after a slow babyface turn. Both of their OTT World Title matches are highly regarded.</p><p> </p><p>

1st match for free -

</p><div class="ipsEmbeddedVideo"><div><iframe width="200" height="113" src="https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/cZVtb7Ua3E4?feature=oembed" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="" title="🚨Free Match🚨 Jordan Devlin Vs Walter #WrestleRama2"></iframe></div></div><p>

Promo for the rematch -

</p><div class="ipsEmbeddedVideo"><div><iframe width="200" height="113" src="https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/YNv4fGQvKQQ?feature=oembed" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="" title="WALTER VS DEVLIN II #ScrapperMania 5"></iframe></div></div>

[Warhawk8492]

Best Wrestlemania in years, good booking other than Reigns beating McIntyre which was utter BS.