The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Arrows]

Supposedly he made a promise to get rid of these former co-workers. End Nexus (storyline at the time he did but eventually they came back under new leadership of CM Punk).

 

He kept his word. That would be equivalent to LeBron keeping his word and bringing a championship to Cleveland. But look how that turned out.

 

So it's okay to break the law, as long as you do so to keep a promise to someone?

[djthefunkchris]

So it's okay to break the law, as long as you do so to keep a promise to someone?

 

Pretty sure they mentioned him buying a ticket. The Rock did the same thing, far as the jokes are concerned. I don't know, I find it entertaining, but I can see your point to some extent, but I think your taking it to far. It's all done in fun most of the time, and it's ussually funny. But that's kind of what I mean... I think he would be alot less stale if he just threw all that away, and got serious.... Instead of making jokes, just beat them down, then ask them how much they feel like talking afterwards.

 

In all honesty, I don't think Cena could do that kind of character though, it's not in "his" natural abilities, where it is in Austins, and perhaps even Punk.

[Arrows]

Pretty sure they mentioned him buying a ticket. The Rock did the same thing, far as the jokes are concerned. I don't know, I find it entertaining, but I can see your point to some extent, but I think your taking it to far. It's all done in fun most of the time, and it's ussually funny. But that's kind of what I mean... I think he would be alot less stale if he just threw all that away, and got serious.... Instead of making jokes, just beat them down, then ask them how much they feel like talking afterwards.

 

In all honesty, I don't think Cena could do that kind of character though, it's not in "his" natural abilities, where it is in Austins, and perhaps even Punk.

 

He was backstage, where non-staff aren't allowed, and even had help beating up defenseless former co-workers. If I did that, I'd be in prison.

[Fantabulous]

Punk/Cena should be really good. It won't be as heated as MitB and probably not as dramatic for a number of reasons, but if they don't go too long it can be a lot smoother and not have as many botches. It'll be a great wrestling match, although I'm sure the next TNA X-Division spotfest will be cited by someone as having a higher quality of wrestling. My only problem is that Triple H is almost sure to overshadow both of them if he plays some kind of role in the finish or aftermath, possibly involving the original plan for the Punk Raw return, where he lays Punk out and ADR cashes in on him.

[djthefunkchris]

My only problem is that Triple H is almost sure to overshadow both of them if he plays some kind of role in the finish or aftermath, possibly involving the original plan for the Punk Raw return, where he lays Punk out and ADR cashes in on him.

 

Hmm, I don't think I have a problem with that at all. Considering Rey was said to get his re-match title shot from whomever wins at Summer Slam. That's putting ADR, Mysterio, Punk, and Cena all on the highlight reel at the same time, which could be very interesting.

 

 

EDIT: You know I would rather ADR wait, and cash it in on the Rock at Wrestlemania... at least that's what I would do. It gives The Rock an out if he becomes the WWE Champion, and could set up some nice stories.

[djthefunkchris]

He was backstage, where non-staff aren't allowed, and even had help beating up defenseless former co-workers. If I did that, I'd be in prison.

 

/nod. You have to keep in mind that people watch it as a fictitious show, and the stuff you have a problem with is in a dozen movies a year, where the good guy bassically does something similar.... Heck, Batman breaks laws all the time *(for example). Is it 100% right? No. However, I don't know anyone that looks at wrestling quite like you do, in that reguard. It bugs the heck out of you for some reason... perhaps it does in movies as well?

 

The thing is, you have to realise that everyone knows it's a "show" not an actual "contest". It's an action/comedy/circus sitcom for men, bassically.

[Arrows]

Punk NEEDS the title to not be just another nobody after tonight. If he can't walk out right the belt, he's got nothing.

[ShaunGBD]

He was backstage, where non-staff aren't allowed, and even had help beating up defenseless former co-workers. If I did that, I'd be in prison.

 

Wait, what happened? Never heard that before.

[Arrows]

/nod. You have to keep in mind that people watch it as a fictitious show, and the stuff you have a problem with is in a dozen movies a year, where the good guy bassically does something similar.... Heck, Batman breaks laws all the time *(for example). Is it 100% right? No. However, I don't know anyone that looks at wrestling quite like you do, in that reguard. It bugs the heck out of you for some reason... perhaps it does in movies as well?

 

The thing is, you have to realise that everyone knows it's a "show" not an actual "contest". It's an action/comedy/circus sitcom for men, bassically.

 

Children, don't.

 

The silly little kids with the arm bands and idiotic t-shirts? They see what he does as "right". If I had a kid old enough to be influenced by it, I would've cut my tv off during that whole run.

[Arrows]

Wait, what happened? Never heard that before.

 

When Cena was "fired", he showed up backstage and beat up the Nexus with help from a few other wrestlers. Try and walk backstage at a wrestling show, see how fast you're in a cop car.

[djthefunkchris]

Children, don't.

 

The silly little kids with the arm bands and idiotic t-shirts? They see what he does as "right". If I had a kid old enough to be influenced by it, I would've cut my tv off during that whole run.

That would be your right and every other parents right.... But my child has known it was fake since he was five, and before that he wasn't interested in the shows, just the games.

 

In any case, a TV Show doesn't control what my child does, I do/did. I truly believe if you have the time (these days, everyone doesn't) to raise a child properly, they will keep it with them for life... especially if you make yourself available for them when your needed (or when they think they need you).

 

Even cartoons do these things Arrows. Your being a bit ridiculous, IMO here. I understand your wanting to make a point, and I understand the point your making. But it's no different to me then when that big Ogre showed up at the Castle to defeat the Prince, even though he was trespassing.

[Fantabulous]

Wrestling, especially in the modern era where logic became less of a requirement, is littered with babyfaces and heels where their actions and words are diametrically opposed to their supposed disposition.

[Arrows]

That would be your right and every other parents right.... But my child has known it was fake since he was five, and before that he wasn't interested in the shows, just the games.

 

In any case, a TV Show doesn't control what my child does, I do/did. I truly believe if you have the time (these days, everyone doesn't) to raise a child properly, they will keep it with them for life... especially if you make yourself available for them when your needed (or when they think they need you).

 

Even cartoons do these things Arrows. Your being a bit ridiculous, IMO here. I understand your wanting to make a point, and I understand the point your making. But it's no different to me then when that big Ogre showed up at the Castle to defeat the Prince, even though he was trespassing.

 

That ogre's not shoved down kid's throats on a weekly basis as a role model. You're not told to be like him. You're not told to be like Batman.

 

You've got Cena running around with the Hustle, Loyalty, Respect, garbage, trying to teach kids values, all the while he's just some common thug pansy with no values himself.

 

Entirely different situation.

[Gabbo]

Arrows is just a blind Cena hater.

 

I'm not having a go at Arrows, I actually like him - but the points he's made in this thread recently do nothing but show him to be laughably obsessed with his hatred of Cena.

 

I mean it's wrestling, a fake sport where people beat each other up. How can you possibly set a positive example to impressionable children from that. You're scraping the bottom of the barrel too much to try and put Cena down.

[Fantabulous]

Arrow makes some good points but, naturally, they must be the product of a 'hater'. Strange how no effort has been made to counter them, but you get that from people who throw around the term 'hater'; it's an easy out to dismiss points you can't argue with.

[Arrows]

Arrows is just a blind Cena hater.

 

I'm not having a go at Arrows, I actually like him - but the points he's made in this thread recently do nothing but show him to be laughably obsessed with his hatred of Cena.

 

I mean it's wrestling, a fake sport where people beat each other up. How can you possibly set a positive example to impressionable children from that. You're scraping the bottom of the barrel too much to try and put Cena down.

 

Yeah. It's impossible! Except for the fact that the man they want to make Cena into, actually did it, 20 years ago, with relative ease. Guess that one doesn't count? How about Sting pre-96? He never did anything that'd be criminal. Always stood up to the bad guy. Never gave up the fight, no matter how badly he was getting beaten. If he'd had mic skills, he would've been WCW's Hogan. That doesn't count either, eh?

[Fantabulous]

It's a curious deal these days. You only ever see critics of Cena being dismissed as 'haters' and their points conveniently ignored by those calling them that. If someone makes a point against, say, Punk or Triple H or anyone, you usually get someone arguing the opposing view. But with Cena, you're far more likely to see someone being dismissed as a 'hater' and no attempt made to argue the opposing view. What is it about Cena that causes people to be reluctant to put forth an argument against any points being raised against him?

 

If someone claimed Rey was a 'spot monkey' or something, you'd never get them being called a 'hater'; you'd get someone explaining their view of why Rey wasn't a spot monkey.

[Gabbo]

If you think Sting never did anything criminal you haven't watched enough of him pre 1996. Run-ins, after match brawls etc. It's all 'assault'. Which is basically where your entire point falls down.

 

When Cena was "fired", he showed up backstage and beat up the Nexus with help from a few other wrestlers. Try and walk backstage at a wrestling show, see how fast you're in a cop car.

 

They didn't put Melina in a cop car when she did it last week.

 

 

Wrestlers all set the example that fighting is the way to settle a dispute, which is illegal. You go out and fight someone in the street and you'll be locked up. If you don't think your child can comprehend it's a TV show and the differences within that he shouldn't be watching wrestling full stop.

[Stennick]

Yeah Melina wasn't put in a cop car and wrestlers and former wrestlers show up backstage all the time. John was well liked and even if he was fired they would have atleast let him backstage. Heck Bret Hart was allowed backstage to WWE RAW in 1998 he talks about how everyone was great to him in his book.

[SaySo]

When Cena was "fired", he showed up backstage and beat up the Nexus with help from a few other wrestlers. Try and walk backstage at a wrestling show, see how fast you're in a cop car.

 

You think what they portray is real?

[SaySo]

Punk NEEDS the title to not be just another nobody after tonight. If he can't walk out right the belt, he's got nothing.

 

Wait, he needs to win or he's a nobody.

 

Lashley lost to Cena in his last WWE PPV appearance, was he a nobody afterwards? Why did StrikeForce ink Lashley? Because he was a nobody or a guy high up the card.

[Arrows]

If you think Sting never did anything criminal you haven't watched enough of him pre 1996. Run-ins, after match brawls etc. It's all 'assault'. Which is basically where your entire point falls down.

 

 

 

They didn't put Melina in a cop car when she did it last week.

 

 

Wrestlers all set the example that fighting is the way to settle a dispute, which is illegal. You go out and fight someone in the street and you'll be locked up. If you don't think your child can comprehend it's a TV show and the differences within that he shouldn't be watching wrestling full stop.

 

Show me Sting _starting_ one of those run ins or post match attacks. The only time I can recall Sting being involved in something someone else didn't start against him, he was coming to the rescue.

 

They also didn't let Melina in. Had she tried to force her way in like Cena must've to be backstage for those assaults, she would've been arrested.

 

Your point falls flat here. Wrestlers wrestle for a living. It's their job. It's how they pay the bills, and get food. In the land of kayfabe, it's a competitive sport where the better man makes the most monies and pays more bills and has better stuffs. Not two guys beating each other up cause they don't like each other.

 

90% of Sting's career. He is wrestling to make a living. Some big bad comes to try and end his career and disrupt his ability to make a living. He defends himself and stands up to them, proving that believing in yourself and not giving up can over come any odds.

 

That, is heroic.

[djthefunkchris]

Yeah. It's impossible! Except for the fact that the man they want to make Cena into, actually did it, 20 years ago, with relative ease. Guess that one doesn't count? How about Sting pre-96? He never did anything that'd be criminal. Always stood up to the bad guy. Never gave up the fight, no matter how badly he was getting beaten. If he'd had mic skills, he would've been WCW's Hogan. That doesn't count either, eh?

 

You do know that Hogan was "kafabe", not in the promotion when he come back ala, under a mask (and everyone knew it was him, etc) as Mr. America?

 

 

Definately was the "Face" for that as well, kept his theme and everything. Remember, everyone was speculating about Cena doing something similar?

 

 

 

This guy wasn't looking for a fight... (Sting Pre 96)

 

And this proves absolutely nothing, because it's not "exactly" the same thing, although it's reasonably the same thing under different conditions of the same...

 

The point I'm making is that your not seeing anything new, in general. None of us are, although it might be new to us. These things have gone on way before WWF took the reigns of the wrestling horse and moved on... AWA had Hulk Hogan wrestling under a mask as well... Super Destroyer, he took on the persona of Super Strong Machine at one time as well.

 

This is NOT the first time a face has did these types of things... You suggesting we all forget the history, and look at just one person as if it's something that we shouldn't endorse or whatever, is rather silly. It's something that we not only endorse, but DEMAND. What would you have had them do?

 

You know, you don't have to try so hard at making something sound reasonable.... All you have to do is say, "Boy, that was lame, firing Cena then him showing up week after week anyways." and most everyone would agree with that point of view. Saying "It's totally wrong, he's not playing fair against a bunch of unfair people... He's beating them at their OWN game!" as if that wasn't the whole point of the storyling in the first place.

[VTial]

Yeah. It's impossible! Except for the fact that the man they want to make Cena into, actually did it, 20 years ago, with relative ease. Guess that one doesn't count? How about Sting pre-96? He never did anything that'd be criminal. Always stood up to the bad guy. Never gave up the fight, no matter how badly he was getting beaten. If he'd had mic skills, he would've been WCW's Hogan. That doesn't count either, eh?

 

This is why it's best to ignore stuff like these. If the guy's only point is that you are a Cena hater throwing back mud at him won't make your point much clearer.

 

I think a more valid criticism to your comment is how Cena's current character despite turning face is still an extension of a heel who is also a bad rapper that gets constantly poked fun of by both heels and faces. The role message Cena is sending is not that you should do what he does.

 

Hustle. Loyalty. Respect. If you analyze those words:

 

Hustle is a message that you should always persevere in your dreams.

 

Loyalty is a message that you should never forget the ones who supported you through thick and thin and you shouldn't disappoint them or change just because the world seemingly hates you for who you are.

 

Finally, Respect is all about doing things with principle. Whether it be to only poke fun at people who try to push your buttons or it's about going dirty only on people who plays dirty.

 

None of the message Cena sends as a role model shows that he is suppose to be a paragon that his idols should mimic or look upon for support. If anything, he's more of a poser character. A man who will do things the way he wants to including wearing things he wants and executing things the way he does regardless whether it wins him a popularity contest.

 

Not saying kids will often analyze this in-depth but Cena isn't really trying to be a hero or an anti-hero. He barely runs in to save anyone. Even in kayfabe reality, he's no more no less a rebel than Austin except he's not portrayed as a tweener and his moves are not weapons but rituals to show how his perseverance got him to the point of once again winning the title against another annoying heel.

[SaySo]

Yeah Melina wasn't put in a cop car and wrestlers and former wrestlers show up backstage all the time. John was well liked and even if he was fired they would have atleast let him backstage. Heck Bret Hart was allowed backstage to WWE RAW in 1998 he talks about how everyone was great to him in his book.

 

Just look at Stone Cold. He did everything that would have gotten anyone fired. But nope. They didn't. Why? Because he made WWE millions of dollars.

 

Cena has been used in the same way (protected by how no one could beat him fairly). If Cena didn't bring the WWE revenue, they wouldn't push him like they do.

 

Arrows just doesn't like Cena. That's why the wrestling business has been dominated by one company 25 out of the last 28 years. We have people arguing about a company who's been successful than their favorite wrestling company.