The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[bookerman]

 

Christian didn't get shuffled back to the midcard at all, he's gotten more airtime than ever before, even on Raw. Consistently ruffling feathers with main-eventers, Raw's main-eventers even, how is that being shuffled back? Guys like Morrison and Kofi, now they got shuffled back to the midcard. Because they haven't been able to capitalize on their opportunities and became an afterthought.

 

Edit: You talk about Punk's momentum being knocked down a step since MITB(I would've thought since SS but okay). What else could he do after a program with Cena? Go to SD and feud with Orton? They gave him the biggest non-title angle you could arguably give someone, IMO. You can't push everyone at the same time. To create new stars, some will have to take the backseat, but just because they aren't treated in God mode doesn't mean they aren't legitimate stars. This is a different playground than a few years ago, where veterans were pissing out left and right. More than half of them are gone now.

 

On the 1st RAW Supershow, Christian ate the pin even though the next night he was going to face Orton on Super Smackdown. Why couldn't Sheamus (coming off losing a feud with Henry) take the fall by losing to Christian? Gives both of them something to do next (and it appears that is the direction they are going) and it makes Christian a little stronger going into his title match.

 

And yes, it's possible to push multiple people at once, but it takes some long term thought and 75% of a show can't be devoted to 2 angles leaving the rest of the roster to fight over 30 mins of air time. At any time, the WWE should be able to answer the "what now?" before it happens. If Cena beats ADR, what now? Henry gets the belt from Orton...ok...what now? Instead of building credible challengers/opponents from the midcard, they use plug and pray booking and HOPE that the program works out.

 

Looking at the midcard talents, Bryan has Bret Hart level potential but is feuding with Sin Cara, Ziggler and Swagger have unique looks, but really haven't been allowed to put things together and have a nice streak recently. Miz has mic skills and is a heat magnet, but was booked weakly in his first run. Morrison can't talk, but his flashy offense is a nice contrast to the more grounded others. Riley has a nice look but hasn't been booked strong on TV recently. He and Morrison in a tag team would be interesting. Kofi and Evan are tag champs. Barrett can talk and is solid in the ring. Rhodes and Dibiase have potential, but need strong booking (ie clean wins over people for an extended period of time).

 

WWE has some nice pieces, but it appears the puzzle they are trying to put together changes at the drop of a hat.

[OldStingberg]

You see their potential do you not? Which isn't just because they're talented but because they're putting effort in advancing their characters, crafting their promos and what they bring to the table. You know where the majority of them will(or should) land in the next few years.

 

I certainly see their potential. But that doesn't mean the WWE has made them stars. In fact, it's probably the opposite. If we're still talking about their potential, it means they're not stars yet. No one talks about Tom Brady's potential anymore.

 

It's like I said, if they wanna create new guys, some will have to take a backseat at some point. The Miz has been taking a sizeable backseat when we all know he could rise back up to main-event stardom when the time will be right. Some cases will look less optimistic such as Swagger's, when it comes to Christian though he has what it takes in my opinion to be a mainstay heel for the brand if needed.

But it's needed now. The WWE has 2.5 stars, all of which are faces. Now's the time for credible, mainstay heels. Instead they jobbed Christian to Orton nearly every other week over the summer, and now they've moved Christian into a feud with Sheamus, a feud Christian will probably lose considering the heat Sheamus has.

 

I guess it's down to one's perspective how long it lasted, I didn't really feel any amounts of hotshotting myself, it looked clear they a) tried to wrap it up for the second biggest PPV of the year and b) they tried to cement Punk's face turn. He would've always gotten cheered against Cena, but if they wanted his face turn to be crystallized they had to gear him towards someone else. If you feel otherwise on the hotsotting of the angle fairplay, just for curiosity I wonder where else you could've sent the angle from then on.

 

They held Punk off of TV for a single week. That's gotta make it impossible to say the angle wasn't hotshotted, right?

 

Personally, I would have kept Punk off TV the entire month following MITB. Spend that month building the WWE Championship tournament with the finals between Cena and the Miz at SummerSlam. Keep doing little viral things like the Comic Con stuff throughout the month to keep the whispers about Punk going. At SS, Punk shows up with his title during the main event, accidentally distracting the Miz. Cena capitalizes, wins the belt, and him and Punk end the show staring each other down with their titles.

 

Then they would build to Cena/Punk at NoC. The Miz interferes costing Punk the match, evening Cena/Punk at one apiece, and afterwards Del Rio sneak attacks Cena to cash in the briefcase and win the title.

 

That would lead into Punk/Miz and Cena/Del Rio feuds with still some simmering tension between Punk and Cena. That gives Punk a legitimate heel to draw heat off of in a program that would feature great matches and even better promos. Hell, they could even turn Triple H as part of the story and have Triple H and The Miz be the heads of a new Corporation or whatever, which would be a tailor-made feature match for Survivor Series.

 

Let's say they wrap those feuds up around TLC in December with Punk and Cena both coming out on top. They could then do Cena/Punk as the Royal Rumble main event. Punk would win that match clean, cementing his place as a main eventer for life. They'd shake hands afterwards, and they would move onto their WrestleMania feuds. Cena/Rock obviously, and Punk/Rumble winner for the title. Imagine a WrestleMania with potentially Orton/Barrett for the World Championship with DBryan cashing in afterwards, Punk/Ziggler for the WWE Championship (which I'd love for Dolph to win), and Cena/Rock closing it out. With the exception of the Rock, those are six of the guys they could be building the company around for the next 5-10 years all showcased in a PPV guaranteed to do bonkers numbers.

 

That's what the WWE needs to do. My off-the-top-of-my-head scenario certainly isn't the only way to do it, far from it, but it's one way. Point is, the WWE needs to be looking at building stars to go alongside Cena and Orton. Pushing HHH, Nash, and Mark Henry isn't giving me a ton of confidence that they're doing that.

[Teh_Showtime]

thats because they don't teach the guys to fish, they just feed them.

 

Using things like MITB to try to become a top guy instantly won't work without natural progression and time.

[bookerman]

thats because they don't teach the guys to fish, they just feed them.

 

Using things like MITB to try to become a top guy instantly won't work without natural progression and time.

 

Totally agree, MITB/Royal Rumble/etc should be used as stepping stones on the way up and as part of a long term progression plan.

 

I liken it to creating TV/Movie stars. It's VERY rare that someone shows up on a movie/TV show and is instantly a hot draw. Guys like Tom Hanks, Jim Carrey, Mark Wahlberg, George Clooney, Brad Pitt, took time to become who they are. Over time their roles got larger and larger and they were able to command higher dollars for their work.

[Tha Black Phenom]

On the 1st RAW Supershow, Christian ate the pin even though the next night he was going to face Orton on Super Smackdown. Why couldn't Sheamus (coming off losing a feud with Henry) take the fall by losing to Christian? Gives both of them something to do next (and it appears that is the direction they are going) and it makes Christian a little stronger going into his title match.

 

Maybe they don't want to make Christian look stronger. Being the opportunistic heel that he is, he will get pinned, a lot. But saying that, people think that means he's gonna get shafted or something - it's not that black and white. He can lose loads and still be featured in main-events if they craft a motive and story around it, and show how much of a mainstay he can be despite the losses and pins.

 

That's another aspect I've been talking about; when some of us are antsy over booking aspects even if other factors can take precedence.

 

And yes, it's possible to push multiple people at once, but it takes some long term thought and 75% of a show can't be devoted to 2 angles leaving the rest of the roster to fight over 30 mins of air time. At any time, the WWE should be able to answer the "what now?" before it happens. If Cena beats ADR, what now? Henry gets the belt from Orton...ok...what now? Instead of building credible challengers/opponents from the midcard, they use plug and pray booking and HOPE that the program works out.

 

The reason resides in Triple H's interview up there; yeah, they switch things around a lot but that's because of many factors clashing at once. They have to deal with the crowd reaction, sometimes if they see it isn't favorable they'll change things at a minute's notice. If it's more than favorable(Punk's reaction), they'll adjust too. It's live television, sometimes they'll have to make changes even if it looks sketchy. Of course, sometimes it just won't look pretty at all and certain angles can fall flat on their faces.

 

Answering the "what now" either isn't that simple, or when they do it we barely realize because "that's how it's supposed to be". Also when they try to, sometimes it becomes very predictable(which is ironically another thing people bitch about).

[Tha Black Phenom]

I certainly see their potential. But that doesn't mean the WWE has made them stars. In fact, it's probably the opposite. If we're still talking about their potential, it means they're not stars yet. No one talks about Tom Brady's potential anymore.

 

I didn't say they made them stars. We were talking about creating new stars, are we not? As in, in the process of. And that will include some prospects taking the backseat so the WWE can test the waters with other talent. We can sit here and say "now, now" but again it's not always that simple. Punk is getting that 'now' rub if you wanna be technical, it goes one at a time. They can push multiple guys at once yeah, and yeah it requires long-term planning but another thing that's required is the star power. Below you say it yourself, they have 2.5 stars. So they have to go at it slowly.

 

But it's needed now. The WWE has 2.5 stars, all of which are faces. Now's the time for credible, mainstay heels. Instead they jobbed Christian to Orton nearly every other week over the summer, and now they've moved Christian into a feud with Sheamus, a feud Christian will probably lose considering the heat Sheamus has.

 

Yeah, Sheamus who's the other big face of the brand. They're literally doing square dancing with the four top guys on SmackDown!, that's what it looks like to me.

 

Credible mainstay heels don't always need to go over, at least not over the big babyface dog of the brand. It has rarely gone like that since the heel HHH days, why would it be the case now? Getting the heat is what matters.

[bookerman]

Maybe they don't want to make Christian look stronger. Being the opportunistic heel that he is, he will get pinned, a lot. But saying that, people think that means he's gonna get shafted or something - it's not that black and white. He can lose loads and still be featured in main-events if they craft a motive and story around it, and show how much of a mainstay he can be despite the losses and pins.

 

That's another aspect I've been talking about; when some of us are antsy over booking aspects even if other factors can take precedence.

 

 

 

The reason resides in Triple H's interview up there; yeah, they switch things around a lot but that's because of many factors clashing at once. They have to deal with the crowd reaction, sometimes if they see it isn't favorable they'll change things at a minute's notice. If it's more than favorable(Punk's reaction), they'll adjust too. It's live television, sometimes they'll have to make changes even if it looks sketchy. Of course, sometimes it just won't look pretty at all and certain angles can fall flat on their faces.

 

Answering the "what now" either isn't that simple, or when they do it we barely realize because "that's how it's supposed to be". Also when they try to, sometimes it becomes very predictable(which is ironically another thing people @#!*% about).

 

Maybe I've listened to too many I Want Wrestling podcasts, but it's more than changing things to suit crowd reaction. It's rewriting entire shows the day of and segments minutes before they go on air, especially promos. I trust the opinion of people who have worked for the WWE for years when they say that "Vince has trouble making up his mind and even when he does, it could change again before going on air." That's a diservice to the writers/creative and the talent for putting them in a position of not knowing what they are doing or where there character is going in the coming weeks and months. It's a flavor of the week deal. As opposed to long term story archs, they blow through months of material in a few weeks. Christian/Orton could have gone on for months IF they hadn't done any matches on TV together except the first one. Every other rematch could have been on PPV. And during the feud, when did Orton ever "show @$$" in terms of making Christian into a credible threat that could beat him without needing stips.

 

Fans cheer and back winners...period. At some point, if they guy/team they are following doesn't win (and win clean), they stop being seen as credible (see WCW vs NWO -WCW never got the upperhand and eventually crowd support for the "good guys" turned into apathy). Even if a heel is going to ultimately lose, they still need to be seen as a credible threat to the face. Think about how boring Batman comics would be if the worse thing the Joker did to get over was to try to get Batman thrown in jail or to knock over a hot dog stand. Those aren't "evil". The Joker got over b/c he very often had Batman at his wits end and Batman was either just a bit smarter or quicker on the draw or pulled out a miraculous batarang throw just in time to foil the Joker's plans.

 

Wrestling is similar. The heels HAVE to be seen as a threat. Whether it be to the faces title, to the faces health, or something. In the end, the face needs to win the war, but the heel needs to win some battles along the way. I don't think Christian won enough battles to make the war really interesting.

 

Also found this link interesting:

 

http://realwrestlecrap.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=WWE&action=display&thread=342951&page=1

[Teh_Showtime]

In non title matches on SD, didn't Christian pin Orton in a tag match? I don't remember Orton pinning him on SD in a non title match

[djthefunkchris]

Who isn't?

 

Here's a couple guys from PWInsider:

 

http://www.pwinsider.com/article/61385/looking-at-when-zack-ryder-is-the-only-positive-you-know-this-show-was-awful-edition-of-monday-night-raw.html?p=1

http://www.pwinsider.com/article/61440/an-exasperated-look-at-cm-punk-triple-h-daniel-bryan-jack-swagger-and-why-wwe-makes-it-hard-to-care-anymore.html?p=1

 

PWTorch:

 

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/The_Specialists_34/article_53001.shtml

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/absurityofitall/article_52989.shtml

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/hitsandmisses/article_53014.shtml

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/Torch_Feedback_17/article_53026.shtml

 

Bleacher Report:

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/839511-wwe-news-release-of-kevin-nash-is-prime-example-of-poor-storyline-direction

 

411 Mania:

 

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/columns/200481/411%5C%5Cs-Instant-Analysis-09.05.11:-Monday-Night-Raw.htm

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/columns/200660

 

That last one has an especially juicy bit.

 

 

 

I can quickly and easily find more if you want.

 

I meant here... I don't hardly ever go to any of those sights unless I want to know something out ahead of time, and they seen it already.

 

The reason I don't is because of stuff like that, you just posted:

 

If there's one thing I hate to be right about, it's the outcome of CM Punk's summer. Punk's run up to Money in the Bank was an absolute thing of beauty and helped create one of the best moments of recent times, but sadly that's all it was.

Right here for one... "Sadly that's all it was." How is that possible... Did the world end? Did CM Punk leave? No??? Then how is anything over..

 

Let's go on a little bit here.

 

 

Those people claiming that Punk's promos were as meaningful as the creation of the nWo or even that Punk had moved himself to being equal with Cena and Orton on the WWE depth chart were severely misguided.

IF anyone thinks that CM Punk hasn't jumped up several rows of stairs after that, they are completely misguided. Where is any form of proof of this? Is he going to explain how this can be true?

 

With the exception of getting some swank (old) new music Punk's "return" to WWE has become less magical every week. Coming out of SummerSlam there was hope that as Punk moved out of the WWE Championship picture there would still be something compelling and meaningful for the Second City Saint to sink his teeth into. A slow burn feud with Triple H, a war of words with Kevin Nash, and a multi-suspect conspiracy theory all had great potential.

Umm... Speaking in the past tense of something that isn't over. Ok, everythings ended, and there is no more? IF I believed this guy, there would be no reason for me to tune in at all, because it's all over already.

 

But the war of words between Punk and Nash was deflated by Nash's inability to recapture his past glory, the conspiracy was ended this past week with perhaps the worst possible reveal, and the slow burn to a Punk-Triple H match on a big show has been rushed onto a September B-show.

Wow!! They're going to have their match on the next NEXT? oh... He means a Pay Per View.... How can I take someone serious when they have every fact wrong? This one here... IF I wasn't reading it just to show why I don't read it, I wouldn't have gone any farther... it's like saying I shouldn't like Sunday because it comes after Saturday, or Halloween is one of the worse daysof the year, because Christmas is a bigger holiday.

 

Shoehorning in the stipulation that Triple H would have to give up the COO position her earned only a little more than a month ago and this feud has already burned through months of material. The entire Punk situation since his return has been giant case of missed opportunity and this feud has been a key part of that.

Coo position her... I guess he meant he. At any rate, the guy's post or whatever it is, it's almost as if he's making an april fools post or something. No facts, no actual reason to think like him. Nothing of substance to really debate with him about, because he's obviously not watching the show, and obviously doesn't realise Punk's getting more time, probably twice as much time then the people he says is so much higher above him. Just a totally off post, completely lacking any form of truth to it....

 

IF he doesn't like it, then fine. Heck, I'm not going to lie here, I don't really like what's going on at the moment. However, I can't deny how much my interest has been raised since the start of it. I have no idea who is going to win, or how... People claim it's obvious, but they claimed it was completely obvious Cena was going to win as well... and of course they were wrong. Personally, I find these types of people are 90% of the time wrong, and yet somehow claim it ended up the way they said it would, although they said something completely different.

 

That's why I don't bother going to those sights. IF there were more people that talked and thought like that here, I wouldn't be a part of this community. Fact is, if it happens, I would leave without a problem. I was playing Adam's games long before I become a member here, and I would be just fine without it, if it become over run with completely out of their mind people like that.

[Moe Hunter]

Think about how boring Batman comics would be if the worse thing the Joker did to get over was to try to get Batman thrown in jail or to knock over a hot dog stand. Those aren't "evil".

 

If the hot dog stand was on a beach during X-Men 2, absolutely it would be evil!

[Linsolv]

Coo position her... I guess he meant he. At any rate, the guy's post or whatever it is, it's almost as if he's making an april fools post or something. No facts, no actual reason to think like him. Nothing of substance to really debate with him about, because he's obviously not watching the show, and obviously doesn't realise Punk's getting more time, probably twice as much time then the people he says is so much higher above him. Just a totally off post, completely lacking any form of truth to it....

 

I don't know, man. I sat down to finally catch up on RAW yesterday, and what I discovered (aside from that reading a textbook and watching RAW is really hard) was that yeah, they seem to be giving him a lot of time, but it's all stuff that, when explained one-after-another, makes you scratch your head.

 

The question you have to ask is, what's the difference between where he was before this and where he is now, in real terms? The last few months, sure. He's been a little behind the times. But when he was the leader of the New Nexus? He was on TV this much. He's on TV a little more, now? What is it exactly?

[Teh_Showtime]

I don't know, maybe the fact that he gets MORE focus than Cena

[OldStingberg]

Right here for one... "Sadly that's all it was." How is that possible... Did the world end? Did CM Punk leave? No??? Then how is anything over..

 

The writer very specifically referenced "CM Punk's summer". Considering summer is generally considered June-August, that is in fact over.

 

IF anyone thinks that CM Punk hasn't jumped up several rows of stairs after that, they are completely misguided. Where is any form of proof of this? Is he going to explain how this can be true?

 

This is a good bit of deceptive wordplay. The writer said anyone who thought Punk reached Cena or Orton's level was misguided. You countered by saying that it's obvious that Punk had jumped up several rows of stairs. Ok, but that's not what the writer said. He said Punk hasn't reach Cena or Orton's level. And he hasn't. He doesn't get nearly the reaction anymore that those two guys get.

 

Wow!! They're going to have their match on the next NEXT? oh... He means a Pay Per View.... How can I take someone serious when they have every fact wrong? This one here... IF I wasn't reading it just to show why I don't read it, I wouldn't have gone any farther... it's like saying I shouldn't like Sunday because it comes after Saturday, or Halloween is one of the worse daysof the year, because Christmas is a bigger holiday.

 

Again, more deception. You take umbrage at his characterization of one of the WWE's lesser PPVs, while ignoring the main, and nearly undisputed, points regarding Nash's disappointing performances, the mind-boggling reveal to the whodunnit, and the hotshotting of the Punk/HHH match onto a lesser PPV.

 

But clearly going after the writer calling NoC a September B show was the most relevant thing there.

 

Coo position her... I guess he meant he. At any rate, the guy's post or whatever it is, it's almost as if he's making an april fools post or something. No facts, no actual reason to think like him. Nothing of substance to really debate with him about, because he's obviously not watching the show, and obviously doesn't realise Punk's getting more time, probably twice as much time then the people he says is so much higher above him. Just a totally off post, completely lacking any form of truth to it....

 

And we end with what, no offense, has become my least favorite argument, that of "But Punk's getting so much time!" No one's arguing that. No one's saying that they're not letting Punk on TV. The main argument is the WWE's handling of Punk after MitB has wasted an opportunity to cement him on Cena and Orton's level. And so far, that's undeniably true. He doesn't have the heat Cena or Orton has. Not at all. Punk being on TV a lot doesn't by default change that. Nexus was on TV a whole lot last year, but that didn't mean Wade Barrett was anywhere near Cena or Orton's level.

 

Granted, the WWE might be able to redeem this whole thing if they do something dramatic soon. But that's no reason why they can't be criticized for what they've already done.

[OldStingberg]

The question you have to ask is, what's the difference between where he was before this and where he is now, in real terms? The last few months, sure. He's been a little behind the times. But when he was the leader of the New Nexus? He was on TV this much. He's on TV a little more, now? What is it exactly?

 

I think the difference is that there are a lot more people that really want to love Punk. His MitB program energized existing fans and created a lot of new fans. Now the WWE just needs to give those fans more reasons to get excited about him. The Nash/HHH/Punk storyline has obviously missed the mark in that regard so far.

[bookerman]

 

 

 

The reason resides in Triple H's interview up there; yeah, they switch things around a lot but that's because of many factors clashing at once. They have to deal with the crowd reaction, sometimes if they see it isn't favorable they'll change things at a minute's notice. If it's more than favorable(Punk's reaction), they'll adjust too. It's live television, sometimes they'll have to make changes even if it looks sketchy. Of course, sometimes it just won't look pretty at all and certain angles can fall flat on their faces.

 

Answering the "what now" either isn't that simple, or when they do it we barely realize because "that's how it's supposed to be". Also when they try to, sometimes it becomes very predictable(which is ironically another thing people bitch about).

 

Forgot to add, if they (they being Vince/Steph/creative/etc) can't have a decent idea of what is/is not going to get a reaction then they shouldn't be in a position to determine that.

[djthefunkchris]

The writer very specifically referenced "CM Punk's summer". Considering summer is generally considered June-August, that is in fact over.

So he is ending the storyline himself? That's just aweful viewing, period. There was nothing from WWE that makes me think anything is over with the storyline.

 

Pluss... Isn't it a bit ridiculous to end it in summer, and expect so much done, yet..... The whole post was based on Punk being hotshotted?

 

You don't see the hypocrisy in that whatsoever though, do you?

 

This is a good bit of deceptive wordplay. The writer said anyone who thought Punk reached Cena or Orton's level was misguided. You countered by saying that it's obvious that Punk had jumped up several rows of stairs. Ok, but that's not what the writer said. He said Punk hasn't reach Cena or Orton's level. And he hasn't. He doesn't get nearly the reaction anymore that those two guys get..

 

The way he said it was as if it's totally out of Punk's reach, and I totally dissagree.

Those people claiming that Punk's promos were as meaningful as the creation of the nWo or even that Punk had moved himself to being equal with Cena and Orton on the WWE depth chart were severely misguided.

Punk's promo to start this thing off was outstanding, easily the most talked about thing in wrestling in years, if not a decade. Definately on his way to being an equal to Cena and Orton... and to be honest, is equal to "heel" Orton. So yeah, I totally dissagree with this guy.

 

Again, more deception. You take umbrage at his characterization of one of the WWE's lesser PPVs, while ignoring the main, and nearly undisputed, points regarding Nash's disappointing performances, the mind-boggling reveal to the whodunnit, and the hotshotting of the Punk/HHH match onto a lesser PPV. .

Nash can't compete with Punk without a script, that didn't exactly boggle my mind. He is mad about hotshotting, after you said he wanted it to be over in the summer time. Make up your mind here...

 

The thing with HHH has just started. We have absolutely no idea where it's going. This could be the only match, it could be the start of a huge fued, we don't know.

 

And again, mad about the reveal because it wasn't anything anyone guessed is getting very old... OH, So it didn't happen any of the dozen ways I said it should have ended, and so I'm unhappy... and by the way, I'm unhappy that part is over, although plenty were saying it was getting old... Probably this guy said something along those lines as well. I can tell by the post. This Whodunnit thing is getting old, they better reveal something soon.... Oh no, I was wrong, so it must be bad.

 

But clearly going after the writer calling NoC a September B show was the most relevant thing there..

NO, he left out PPV on purpose, in order to make his post look better, and it made it look worse.

 

What he said was...

But the war of words between Punk and Nash was deflated by Nash's inability to recapture his past glory, the conspiracy was ended this past week with perhaps the worst possible reveal, and the slow burn to a Punk-Triple H match on a big show has been rushed onto a September B-show.

For something that could be the start of something bigger... I have no problem with it being on a lesser PPV. PPV's aren't "A" and "B" shows... A "B" show highlights midcarders, an "A" show highlights main eventers. This isn't a "B" show. The only reason he said "B" show was to make it sound totally different then reality.

And we end with what, no offense, has become my least favorite argument, that of "But Punk's getting so much time!" No one's arguing that. No one's saying that they're not letting Punk on TV. The main argument is the WWE's handling of Punk after MitB has wasted an opportunity to cement him on Cena and Orton's level. And so far, that's undeniably true. He doesn't have the heat Cena or Orton has. Not at all. Punk being on TV a lot doesn't by default change that. Nexus was on TV a whole lot last year, but that didn't mean Wade Barrett was anywhere near Cena or Orton's level..

He comes out, he says his things... The thing is, they are letting him say HIS things.. It's not WWE's fault if he's not creating over the top heat everytime a word comes out his mouth. However, I find he always gets something in that makes you go "Yeah!", and to be totally honest about the whole thing... IF you go watch the promo that started it all, you will see even less crowd reaction. The only time the crowd went nuts for Punk was in Chicago. WWE isn't doing this because Punk got a "great" reaction from the crowd... They seen what we did. They seen someone do a promo that looked so real, people wanted to believe it. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

You're living in a dream world if you thought that at any point, outside of Chicago, he was getting better reactions. It's been steadily the same since then.

 

Granted, the WWE might be able to redeem this whole thing if they do something dramatic soon. But that's no reason why they can't be criticized for what they've already done.

 

I don't mind criticizing or saying you don't like it. But outright exaggerating your points (in other words, fibbing), is just the kind of dramatics that turn real fans away.

 

In one hand people complain about NOT making stars... Then someone like Sheamus beats an older and bigger star like Christian, and they call foul play... Even though Sheamus is the babyface, and Christian in the heel.

 

Heels don't win legit. Face's do. Heel's win by cheating, faces don't.

 

Everyone ignores the match, and just looks at the outcome of the match. Another thing I think is totally ridiculous... What was it someone said earlier, the Batman/Joker analogy. In a match, There is always times when it looks like Christian is going to win. This makes Christian look credible. IT is ALWAYS ignored when trying to make points, and I'm sure me saying this someone is going to simply state "Christian lost, that's all that matters", which is totally absurd.

[OldStingberg]

Nash can't compete with Punk without a script, that didn't exactly boggle my mind. He is mad about hotshotting, after you said he wanted it to be over in the summer time. Make up your mind here...

 

That's...not what was said. But I literally can't think of a way to make that clearer for you.

 

And again, mad about the reveal because it wasn't anything anyone guessed is getting very old... OH, So it didn't happen any of the dozen ways I said it should have ended, and so I'm unhappy... and by the way, I'm unhappy that part is over, although plenty were saying it was getting old... Probably this guy said something along those lines as well. I can tell by the post. This Whodunnit thing is getting old, they better reveal something soon.... Oh no, I was wrong, so it must be bad.

 

Um, people are mad about the reveal because it was bad, not because it was unexpected. Nash texted himself. Think about that. Nash texted himself. For no reason. It is literally inexplicable. That's just bad. The fact that it was unexpected had nothing to do with it.

 

But I think it's clear that, for whatever reasons, we're not going to see eye-to-eye, and we're not going to have all that productive of a discussion, so I'm gonna stop here.

[djthefunkchris]

That's...not what was said. But I literally can't think of a way to make that clearer for you.

 

The "Summer of Punk" really ended at MITB. Summer slam was a followup, and that's it really. Everything else is on with the next thing.

 

He's putting everything else in with the last thing. You have to be more consistant in comparisons... does this right now count as part of that? OR is it just something new, to get him away from Cena for now.

 

It's all a matter of perspective for me. Ask me clearly, Do I think the reveal was bad? I didn't like the reveal, I was hoping for something much more. However, I realise that "people" were upset that Nash was even involved, and very afraid he would have an actual match with CM Punk. I actually wanted that, I'm the one who should be upset, but folks like that make me react totally differently, by saying irrational stuff like, "This is about Punk's Summer", then including things that aren't about the Summer, but rather the follow up. A follow up that has Punk as the main character on every tv show they have.

 

I've watched over half a dozen commercials today, and none of them had Orton, Cena, etc.. In them. It was all about Punk and HHH. Commercials, today... I'm confident they hold CM Punk alot higher then your quoted poster does.

 

Notice you just pick out one or two things in my reply's, and ignore everything else. Is that because you agree with me, and only want to confront me on a couple things you feel I'm wrong about?

 

I am most certainly never always right. I can agree to be wrong when I can see what the point is, if I'm missing it. The challenge is up to you to figure out how to say it without it being hidden in stuff that doesn't matter. Because when you wrap stuff that supposedly doesn't matter, to claim your facts, it's going to be questioned if I think it's just wrong.

[Teh_Showtime]

HuniCara is AMAZING

 

nice heel promo and he did Bryan's finisher.

 

He also claimed to be the Real Sin Cara so I guess we have that coming

[OldStingberg]

HuniCara is AMAZING

 

nice heel promo and he did Bryan's finisher.

 

He also claimed to be the Real Sin Cara so I guess we have that coming

 

It was kinda amusing to hear the crowd cheering his entrance. Poor Daniel Bryan.

 

I think they did a better job this week of conveying, "Seriously, stop cheering for this Sin Cara."

[Teh_Showtime]

Well Christian still gets decent cheers so I guess the crowd won't always get it.

 

Nice to finally see Cara with some character though

[milamber]

SD was booked strong this week. Some really good match-ups. I'm excited about a potential Sin Cara v Sin Cara match. Good opportunity for WWE to create a new Sin Cara costume (hopefully similar to the white Mistico costume).

 

Cole was less annoying this week until he started ranting on and on in the Rhodes v Orton match. I'm been watching all the Wrestlemanias for the first time this year (#1 through to #22) and I just saw #10. Cole sounds exactly like King used to when he was a heel but King never strayed into annoying territory.

[Mr.Macho]

The Rock returning to action at Survivor Series? Check out the video. Personally its about time, they cannot hold off him wrestling any longer in my opinion.

[Hive]

The Rock returning to action at Survivor Series? Check out the video. Personally its about time, they cannot hold off him wrestling any longer in my opinion.

 

What video? You're linking to the main page of a website.

 

Though from what I read, The Rock will be at Survivor Series to interact with Cena - but will not wrestle.

[OldStingberg]

What video? You're linking to the main page of a website.

 

Though from what I read, The Rock will be at Survivor Series to interact with Cena - but will not wrestle.

 

There's a featured video section on the front page of that site currently showing a Survivor Series promo hyping the Rock's "return to action for the first time in almost eight years."