The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[milamber]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I was going to point out what Hash did, but he already did.<p> </p><p> I think Cena is perfectly able to maintain this schedule though. The dude is a freak and is in great physical shape. </p><p> </p><p> I think of all the things to bring up about him, his age shouldn't be one of them.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yes Cena is in great shape. But that is partly because Vince protects him in matches. Same old routine in most of his matches. Opponent gets in some offense to try to ground Cena which he absorbs, then he hits his few moves in sequence and match over. Safety first to protect the company's top star. Exceptions are some of his matches with Punk where you can tell Punk is getting more out of him because he respects wrestling too much to give the fans an average match, and the semi-hardcore match against Lesnar last year. Same for other top stars, I just happen to dislike Cena's move-set more than most in WWE. That is why, IMO, the bigger problem is his limited move-set and to a lesser extent his character but that won't change while Cena's top dog (even if he begged Vince to let him do different stuff).</p>

[Makhai]

Cena's problem is 3 fold. 1) He's not that big of a star 2) He's milk toast. 3) He represents everything a generation of wrestling fans despised.

 

Those are his problems. He's not a guy who can star in movies. If he walks out the door without his ridiculous merc nobody but his mom and wrestling fans know who he is. He's bland in the ring, on the mic, walking to the ring, standing around backstage... it's not that he's bad. He's just.... offensively mediocre. In the 90s Cena doesn't make it of the under card. That's just the truth. He's the Hulk Hogan(in role only) who took the mantle after the attitude era ended. So we thematically went from "**** authority, Suck it" to "Eat your vitamins, and drink your milk." I almost feel bad, because even if he was a real draw(he's not) he'd always be judged against the impossible. But he's not, so w/e.

 

Yawn. That's how I've always felt about Cena, for 10 years. Yawn. He's the North American Big Daddy. Big Daddy killed the wrestling industry in the UK. Cena is working really hard to squash it in the US. Almost there. 5 more years or so. Think he'll make it. All of his fans right now have only known him on top. They don't remember anybody else. So it's self fulfilling overness. You could push Khali for 10 years and get over with 5 year olds. Not impressive to me.

[MrSelfDestruct]

Makhai, I agree with what you say for the most part and haven't like Cena since the beginning of all this, but you can't blame him for doing what he's told.. I highly doubt he's telling them "Yeah send me out there so I can do the same thing over and over again."

 

until the WWE sees the downside to pandering to the youngins, he will be the same. I doubt they'd let him change character even if he wanted, just because they are so scared of losing a little cash as if they don't make enough.

[djthefunkchris]

Honestly think right now it has more to do with the "PG Era" then selling to kids. I believe there has actually been some great merchandise selling by other's, although I doubt anyone wants to here that Ryback is selling better then all their favorites right now (I don't even want to here that). But seriously...

 

1. Cena IS that big of a star. As I said earlier, everything he's on he gets mad cheers and people everywhere outside of the WWE seem to love him. He's been on so many shows I lost count, and every one of them is the same way.

 

2. He's like exact opposite of Mild Toast, even if you hate him (at least his character is).

 

3. Number one Heel.

[Teh_Showtime]

he's not a heel as long as the commentators keep failing to acknowledge his faults and selfishness

[Rickymex]

John Cena (character-wise) is a dick.

[milamber]

Quote from another forum that had laughing hard:

 

"I wonder how John feels about the irony in his heel being injured. Maybe if he paid more attention to that side of himself this wouldn't have happened."

 

http://24.media.tumblr.com/4dd8b9814562b483b69adb11a393cdde/tumblr_mkzygvrmR81snfbr7o1_500.gif

[Makhai]

Honestly think right now it has more to do with the "PG Era" then selling to kids. I believe there has actually been some great merchandise selling by other's, although I doubt anyone wants to here that Ryback is selling better then all their favorites right now (I don't even want to here that). But seriously...

 

Mom's will buy anything to get 3hrs sleep that night. Best demo in the world to hit up for money. How many Rey Mysterio masks are in a closet of a 9yr old right now? And yes, PG era is most of the problem. I don't hate Cena as a dude. I don't know the guy, the stuff he does for Make a Wish (before it became a pro-wrestling angle) is cool. But doesn't change the fact I hate watching the guy doing his job.

 

1. Cena IS that big of a star. As I said earlier, everything he's on he gets mad cheers and people everywhere outside of the WWE seem to love him. He's been on so many shows I lost count, and every one of them is the same way.

You confuse "likeability" with Q-rating. Ok all of those shows he's going to housewife turf, with 30 pictures of dying kids smiling next to him. They will eat that up, then not be able to tell what that guy looked like 2 segments later. That doesn't make him a star. It helps the WWE brand, because people know what that is. But in terms of cross-over star power Cena is maybe an T-Level star at best. I would put him in the Moon Bloodgood tier. If you bring both up, favorable responses. But if you showed random people a picture in street clothes? Nobody could tell you who they were.

 

And if you think I'm wrong, say he leaves the WWE and goes to TNA for argument sake. How many buys does Bound for Glory do? 200k? No. 100k? No. 50k? Maybe. That's not a star. He's going to cost TNA more than he'd make them. Not. A. Star. Biggest in his era? Yes. Compared to other eras. Sad immitation. The only thing keeping him floating is the fact the talent pool beneath him is worse, and the WWE has enough name pull by itself that it can draw for him.

 

2. He's like exact opposite of Mild Toast, even if you hate him (at least his character is).

John Cena's character is the epitome of mild toast. He's Carrot Top who's parodying The Rock, while playing Hulk Hogan. Nothing about him is good, original, or interesting. It's just not.

 

3. Number one Heel.

You're correct. The reason everybody loved The Rock coming back was because they wanted to believe that Rocky was working heel, was going to rip him apart on the mic. Pin him, expose him as a fraudalate ME guy, and ride off into the sunset after Wrestlemania. Basically a affirmation "You're not the guy, Jonboy, you're just the guy keeping the seat warm." But what business sense does that make? Of course he was trying to elevate Cena. Which is why the second the storyline became clear. (Survivor Series) everybody turned on him and he wasn't getting the same pops, and generally everybody just kinda morned when he came on screen.

 

Also why the milisecond CM Punk put some promos together, the fans threw their arms around the guy. Everybody wants Cena to get hit by a bus. But because he's a face, he's always going to win in the end. It's a Greek Tragedy.

[Rone Rivendale]

It's way more simple than all that everyone.

 

Women love Cena

Kids love Cena

Men hate Cena

 

Women love his look, his charisma, his never say die attitude. They want a man like him in their lives.

 

Kids love his look, his charisma, his never say die attitude. They want a Father like him in their lives.

 

Men hate Cena because they aren't Cena. They don't have the look. They don't have the charisma. They are just average joes behind a keyboard, or attending an event with their wife and child (who is cheering on Cena) and that jealously leads to "Cena sucks! He can't wrestle! He is the worst of all time! Boo!"

 

Period.

[Teh_Showtime]

I'm far from jealous of Cena.

 

I certainly don't hate the man but saying people's anger at him comes due to jealousy and not because he is the primary reason for stagnation in a company that many people have devoted hundreds or thousands of hours or even dollars into over their lifetime is pretty silly.

[Stennick]

It's way more simple than all that everyone.

 

Women love Cena

Kids love Cena

Men hate Cena

 

Women love his look, his charisma, his never say die attitude. They want a man like him in their lives.

 

Kids love his look, his charisma, his never say die attitude. They want a Father like him in their lives.

 

Men hate Cena because they aren't Cena. They don't have the look. They don't have the charisma. They are just average joes behind a keyboard, or attending an event with their wife and child (who is cheering on Cena) and that jealously leads to "Cena sucks! He can't wrestle! He is the worst of all time! Boo!"

 

Period.

 

Not that I take enjoyment out of proving someone wrong (Ok I do) but why didn't men hate Shawn Michaels?

 

Shawn Michaels was about as good looking as you could get in the 90's. Long hair, naturally built body, charisma, etc. yet men loved and still love him.

 

Steve Austin, the guy had loads of charisma and was on tv every week telling his boss to screw off something ALL men could relate to no matter what job they have.

 

The Rock, come on from the guys build to his skin complextion to his sheer charisma to the fancy clothes the guy wore.

 

Simply put there are a TON of pro wrestlers out there that are charasmatic, well built, good looking guys that women love as well as men.

 

Why did men cheer all these other guys yet boo John Cena who lacks in ALL of those departments when compared to the men I listed above? You couldn't be more wrong. Maybe men hate him because he NEVER loses, just like Triple H after the brand split. Maybe they hate him because he needs someone of exceptional skill to carry him to a great match (HBK, CM Punk, etc.) And maybe men just find him boring and unlikeable.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Not to mention Cena is hardly the benchmark for 'charisma' when it comes to sports-entertainment, haha. I mean he is up there in that respect but still.

 

Here's the biggest thing you forgot about the "men". Most of them look at character. Even among the casual fans, men read wrestling like a book, and they get invested in the characters. Now some great workers have a lack of character, or the smarky ones get picky about a main-eventer's character(CM Punk's, Orton's in his Viper phase, HHH, etc)

 

At his worst Cena is a Black Hole Sue/God Mode Sue self-righteous warrior. He's had his opportunistic moments too; multiple title shots when he fails to capture the title, you notice he rarely gets inserted into no.1 contender matches, he just sweet talks his way in. And in a way, Cena's not the first guy to fill some of those shoes. Rock and Hogan got protected/treated to the lengths of Cena in their heyday. But Rock had a badass silver lining to his game and Hogan was a "real american" and the first to do it. You can feed the kids anything but Cena's character is certainly hard to digest for many fans, that's beside the fact that he wins all the time because we've seen that before.

[MrSelfDestruct]

 

 

Men hate Cena because they aren't Cena. They don't have the look. They don't have the charisma. They are just average joes behind a keyboard, or attending an event with their wife and child (who is cheering on Cena) and that jealously leads to "Cena sucks! He can't wrestle! He is the worst of all time! Boo!"

 

 

 

I've hated Cena since they had him become this patriot. It has been overplayed and he has always been overrated to me. I get its about entertainment, but the guy has never entertained me. He is the nameless, faceless babyface who can't say whatever they want, so he says the exact same thing about everyone he feuds with and panders to the crowd. That said, I loved him as the edgy rapper, he could be creative and say more than 'Murica, Hustle, Loyalty, Respect. So I guess I can't blame the boring gimmick on him, but he could find a way to be more creative and not act like the smug, d-bag the gimmick makes him seem to be.

 

Guy has always been overrated to me as well mainly because I am more about in ring work, so it's always frustrated me to see him go over my personal favorite who I find both better on the mic and in-ring, Chris Jericho, whom I feel bad for and feel he's never gotten that long title run he deserves, yet Cena has? Never understood that. I do not like Cena's ring work, and I won't be the guy to say he has 5 moves, its more like 6 (jk). He is just very repetitive about things. He's not very technical and that's always bothered me as someone who LOVES guys like Benoit, Guerrero, Jericho, Punk, Bryan, etc. I've never understood the big whoop about the guy, but he makes them money.

 

You can assume why people hate him and make yourself look silly, but nearly everyone hates him for a different reason. Mine is because I have always felt there is someone better for the job and he beats them 9/10 and it gets aggravating to see guys who are phenomenal in the ring and may not be great on the mic playing second fiddle to him. Take guys like Daniel Bryan and CM Punk, this PG/Cena era has two of the greatest in-ring workers ever being held back because they get beat out by Cena simply because kids love Cena and they are scared to pass the torch. Either one of them could play the boring patriot angle (since it's pretty easy) AND put on a great show in the ring through improvisation and creativity in the ring rather than the typical "Brawl, 5-Knuckle Shuffle, STF, AA" pattern of Cena.

[Rickymex]

I always believed that a villain defines the hero and this is one of the WWE's biggest problems. They can't push villains in a consistent manner at all. You can dominate for a few months and then you lose to John Cena three times in a row. One month you can be a world champion contender and the next you are facing Kofi Kingston for a midcard title. Or you could be the midcard champion who has great battles proving you are one of the best in the company against a variety of opponents including former world champions and then you lose to the challenger of the month in 5 minutes by submission.

[b0shey]

It's way more simple than all that everyone.

 

Women love Cena

Kids love Cena

Men hate Cena

 

Women love his look, his charisma, his never say die attitude. They want a man like him in their lives.

 

Kids love his look, his charisma, his never say die attitude. They want a Father like him in their lives.

 

Men hate Cena because they aren't Cena. They don't have the look. They don't have the charisma. They are just average joes behind a keyboard, or attending an event with their wife and child (who is cheering on Cena) and that jealously leads to "Cena sucks! He can't wrestle! He is the worst of all time! Boo!"

 

Period.

 

If i wanted to look like someone it would be Randy Orton (no homo) not John Cena.

 

also

 

Men and wrestling fans hate John Cena because WWE has been showing John Cena down our faces for 9 years, he is boring, lacks wrestling skills, hardly jobs to anyone (yes he's the top guy but he can easily say i can job).

 

I respect John Cena the man, but John Cena the wrestler needs to go away... So tired of seeing him run over every wrestler in the company just to add another title to his record to make the kids happy.

[Jaysin]

Roman Reigns pinned Cena clean this week.

 

The brother of Rosey the Super Hero In Training pinned Cena clean.

[milamber]

Raw review:

 

Big E vs Zeb vs Ricardo - Fun match because I like all 3 characters. Ricardo FTW! Is a bucket to the head illegal?

Orton vs Rhodes - Good match. Rhodes was impressive. Orton was selling better than usual. Crowd were really into it.

Ziggler vs Kofi - Good match even if we've seen it a dozen times before. AJ so hot holding the WHC

Swagger vs Ryder - Ryder hinted at a heel turn recently. Shame they need him as a face jobber right now.

Del Rio vs Cesaro - Bum crack! Cesaro helped make Del Rio look strong with quality wrestling. Ladder match is fitting for 3 former MITB winners.

Hell No & Cena vs Shield - Cena was mostly protected due to his "hurting" and Shield win clean. Job done.

 

Verdict: Aside from a few random match-ups, better than average Raw. The build to Extreme Rules is ramping up. The crowd were better than usual, too.

 

http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/milamber/shield-1_zps6bece0ab.png~originalhttp://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/milamber/fakeshield_zpsd6d5421c.jpg~original

[JTandSilentBob]

I wouldn't say that Cena was pinned clean. WWE made a huge fuss of his "injury." A clean pin win is what Swagger had over Ryder. Ryder had no excuse for his loss, Cena did.

[Jaysin]

A clean win is a win with no cheating, outside interference, or general shenanigans. That was very much a clean win. Cena being hurt doesn't change that. He's been hurt before and had still won handicap matches.

[MrSelfDestruct]

Roman Reigns pinned Cena clean this week.

 

The brother of Rosey the Super Hero In Training pinned Cena clean.

 

a member of possibly the greatest family ever in wrestling and better in-ring worker beats Cena clean? holy crap there is a wrestling god.

[Jaysin]

I love Reigns, Yoko, and Umaga, but the Anoai family is far from the greatest wrestling family...

 

Quanity=/=Quality

[Teh_Showtime]

a member of possibly the greatest family ever in wrestling and better in-ring worker beats Cena clean? holy crap there is a wrestling god.

 

the Samoans are nowhere near the Harts imo.

 

I actually don't know if I'd put them above the Guerreros. Speaking of, it's a shame their daughter quit wrestling, she seemed like such a natural to me.

[b0shey]

Roman Reigns pinned Cena clean this week.

 

The brother of Rosey the Super Hero In Training pinned Cena clean.

 

Only reason is Shield is the biggest thing in WWE atm, when WWE is done pushing Shield lets see how many times Ambrose/Rollins/Reigns jobs out to Cena... just like all the other wrestlers on the roster that jobbed out to him.

[lazorbeak]

My only gripe with the way the Shield have been portrayed is the commentary repeatedly going out of their way to talk about the "numbers game" and how it's not fair for the Shield to repeatedly win 3 on 3 matches through teamwork. I mean, that's kind of what teams are supposed to do? And nearly every one of their big wins has been against 3 superstars, so I don't know why WWE keeps trying to turn the narrative into "oh it's not fair the Shield is 3 guys" when for the most part, it's been extremely fair.

[MrSelfDestruct]

I love Reigns, Yoko, and Umaga, but the Anoai family is far from the greatest wrestling family...

 

Quanity=/=Quality

 

I mean the ENTIRE samoan family. Rikishi, The Rock, Umaga, etc.

 

All the big names in that family compared to Owen, Bret, Stu, and I guess if you count Davey Boy. (seeing as none of the others really did anything in the US)

 

I guess I should say greatest family in American wrestling IMO. my apoligies. I would definitely put the quantity of the family over the Harts, seeing as there have been many great wrestlers.