ProphetX Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Just curious what everyone's thoughts are on this. I've actually picked up the Showtime package so I can specifically get into MMA and start following Strikeforce. I liked what Elite XC did initially and I realized after I started watching more of it (specifically Gina Carano, now GSP, Don Frye, Cung Le, etc) I'm finding myself hooked. So what do you guys think of the fight and the card overall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesterx7769 Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 While I don't care for the main event as Le is only famous for breaking the arm that belonged to the empty shell of Shamrock the rest of it is actually solid despite none of the fights being blockbusters Thompson vs Melendez isn't blockbuster but its two young guys that want to become blockbuster so hopefully it turns into a great fight as both have been impressive. Jacare vs Lindland, if you look at Lindlands record he has fought a lot of tough competition as of late so I am curious to see just how good he can be (meaning if the losses were bc of who he faced more so than how good he is) where Jacare is a BJJ ace which I love watching and once I get settled here in Florida cant wait to learn again (only got 4 months in) Mo vs Whitehead, I have only seen one Mo fight which was the last so I want to see if he continues to rise Lawler- Disappointed Langley pulled out as there has been a lot of talk of him as of late Overall should be a solid night of fights and it seems this card is targeted more toward the more involved MMA fan than the casual since there isn't a lot of casual name value behind it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 I was on a conference call with Le and Smith a week or two ago, and Le seemed so distracted. All he wanted to discuss was his movie career, I'm looking for him to get knocked out by Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProphetX Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 GAH! I hope not. He's one of the big reasons I'm wanting to watch the fight. Homeboy better focus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACCBiggz Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Undercard should be great, but Le/Smith won't be. Le is so vastly overrated it's beyond ridiculous. Gilbert/Thomson II should be fantastic though. I'll be flipping back and forth between Strikeforce and WEC throughout the night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProphetX Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 If you don't mind me asking, how exactly is he overrated? The fights I've seen him in he's done really well in my opinion. Aside from the Shamrock fight of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesterx7769 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 He's a 37 year old former kick boxer (very accomplished) with 6 mma wins none of them over anyone significant except Shamrock who is so far past his prime its not funny and is now more focused on using that win to create an action star career since he knows his MMA career won't last much longer..oh yes, and he is the champion of the division that now holds Dan Henderson which I cannot wait for Henderson to beat him since their MMA achievments are laughably so far apart How's that? Biggz feel free to add anything I forgot as it seems on these boards we have both not been big fans of him :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tag01 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Le has been fed easy fights his whole career, and his wins were hardly spectacular even against poor competition. His fights are exciting and Le-Smith could very well be exciting. But Le isn't nearly as good as he is hyped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProphetX Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 ooo I didn't know Hendo was in the same weight class (missed that part since I'm new to watching Strikeforce). But I guess that raises the question of how do you base a comment like "this fighter was fed fights"? Like Frank Shamrock, I could see. I'm familiar enough with the sport to know that he is past his prime. But how is it that the others were just as bad? I'm asking not from ego but innocence. I don't know enough about the other fighters he's fought to know if they were just jobbers. Are the others he's fought that poor or is their an expectation that Cung Le should be be just fighting someone like Hendo right off the bat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACCBiggz Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Cung Le got a bunch of ohh's and aww's because he was able to do flashy strikes against poor competition. His wins were absolutely painful to watch, and Shamrock didn't really challenge him to change a gameplan - which, ever since his return Frank has been overrated and played up as well. It works for Strikeforce because that's what they have to do, but objectively you can see them for what they are. But how is it that the others were just as bad? All you really need to see was his headlining fight against Sammy Morgan. Case closed. Are the others he's fought that poor or is their an expectation that Cung Le should be be just fighting someone like Hendo right off the bat? He's just been given competition he can easily defeat. I mean, Lawler has had two opponents drop out and now they can't find a replacement, he is a much tougher opponent than Smith and a higher name. And yet, they do not switch out Scott Smith. Why? Smith is a perfect style for Cung Le. When their Middleweight division started to heat up, that's when he left for movies. When other 185 opponents are brought up he conveniently says that he'd take the fight... but has to make sure it fits with his movie schedules, ie. I am never fighting those guys, and that's why I gave up the title. Jake Shields has called Cung Le out multiple times. Listened to Cung earlier today where he said the training camp was not long for this fight, so I expect even less cardio from him where he has been visibly gassed in previous fights as well. Not expecting that fight to be good at all, and forget main eventing, I still can't believe Strikeforce didn't put Gilbert/Josh on the poster at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProphetX Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 ok cool thanks for the info. I wasn't aware of the timing with movies and Lawler's ability. But devil's advocate here: isn't the type of thing you'd want to build up your fighter for a bigger pay out down the road? Ok so Cung Le has too much hype. Casual fans probably wont pick up on it (like myself because I just recently started getting into it) and if someone comes along, say like Lawler, and destroys him, doesn't that ultimately just help Lawler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesterx7769 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Lawler is already a bigger name and the only people that don't know that are people who have only latched on to Strikeforce recently in the past year (like yourself, not attacking you just repeating what you said) while Strikeforce appeals to the more casual audience (free tv vs mainly PPV for UFC except for Spike) there doesn't appear to be a lot of people who never watched UFC or weren't into MMA and suddenly are because of Strikeforce, yes of course there are but it seems once people get into MMA they try to become more educated about fighters, like yourself :-) unless you are on Sherdog forums in which you are just an idiot that likes to troll :-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProphetX Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 nahhh I tend to stay away from forums where I don't have an interest in reading/staying. Like here (I have a couple of GDS products and have produced freebies for WMMA). Maybe I'm just coming from more of a wrestling/build mindset but I don't see this as being such a bad thing. Unless of course Cung Le dodges more important fights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tag01 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Le took the same path as Kimbo, to some extent. He fought a bunch of nobodies, capped off against a win against an overhyped has-been, and has been marketed as a top middleweight. It's just smoke and mirrors marketing. His first two wins were against cans with losing records. His third was against a TUF castoff who hovers around .500 professionally. His fight against Morgan, who is terrible, was hard to watch. I don't hate Cung Le, and sometimes his fights are exciting. I think he and Smith could potentially have a fun fight to watch. But he's proven nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Le was the perfect fighter for Strikeforce to build themselves around when they were a regional promotions running shows in Cali - localy-based guy, puts butts in seats, incredibly popular in the area. Just like Frank Shamrock. They used Le and Shamrock against less popular guys in main events or featured bouts and did great - what the majority of people didn't realise or were willing to overlook was that both guys were getting hand-picked opponants. Le was fed punching bags who'd stand infront of him so he could let rip with his flashy San Shou moves - the layman still equates martial arts with spinning back kicks and Le delivered. Shamrock got 'high profile' names like the Gracies and Baroni who could sell a bout without being a massive danger to him. Again, thats all fine when you're running a modest regional show - the problem occurs when you're trying to sell your fighters as the best in world, or at least better than the UFC's. It amazes me how many people thought that Cung would give Anderson Silva a good fight. The misconceptions surrounding Le, plus his avoidance of anyone remotely threatening to him, makes me think "whats the point?" I hope Smith runs through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACCBiggz Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 And that's why I have no idea why Strikeforce wouldn't want Cung Le vs. Shields or even Lawler now. They have advanced into that national spotlight and you can "put over" them in this fight. Makes more sense than letting Le win one and then be inactive for X number of months/year. Shamrock got 'high profile' names like the Gracies and Baroni who could sell a bout without being a massive danger to him. And Renzo was working him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesterx7769 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I hope so too, while Smith isn't world class his bout with Radach was a very very very good brawl I thought so hopefully by winning he gets the chance to build himself up in the company along with the other MW's as they actually have a solid base of fighters from 170-205 BTW, can anyone confirm Aoki's status with Strikeforce? I know he is rumored to debut with them after New years but does he actually have a written/exclusive deal with Dream or Strikeforce (I know Dream has a working agreement w/Strikeforce)? B/c if he is actually talking trash about BJ I hope Dana throws money at him just so BJ can destroy him (despite most people in the U.S. not caring about Aoki) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACCBiggz Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Aoki's not coming to the UFC and I really wish I'd stop reading people (not you) saying they want to see that fight. It's an absolutely horrible match-up. Anyway, he's under contract with DREAM. His next fight will most likely be a bout vs. Kawajiri as there has been some jawing back and forth between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesterx7769 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 That's what I thought that he was tied to DREAM, I just read the BJ Penn's trainer comments so wanted to make sure. I don't really care if they fight as far as excitment, I just don't like trash talking from safe distances (since if he never fights BJ he can always say he is better) and I don't like BJ but I respect him as one of the top P4P as he is a true king at 155 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesterx7769 Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Dang Lindland weighed in at 261 and Mo only weighed in at 218! That def increased my interest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACCBiggz Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Whitehead, not Lindland. And considering he had been fighting at 205 - and the weight gain signifies bad things in my opinion. Well, good things if you want Mo to win viciously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I hope so too, while Smith isn't world class his bout with Radach was a very very very good brawl I thought so hopefully by winning he gets the chance to build himself up in the company along with the other MW's as they actually have a solid base of fighters from 170-205 BTW, can anyone confirm Aoki's status with Strikeforce? I know he is rumored to debut with them after New years but does he actually have a written/exclusive deal with Dream or Strikeforce (I know Dream has a working agreement w/Strikeforce)? B/c if he is actually talking trash about BJ I hope Dana throws money at him just so BJ can destroy him (despite most people in the U.S. not caring about Aoki) He doesn't have any status with Strikeforce *yet*. He's just one of the more prominent names from DREAM that Scott Coker threw out when he was talking up the partnership. The extent of the relationship between the two promotions is basically that DREAM fighters can sign non-exclusive deals with Strikeforce with DREAM's approval. It's no great shakes, most of DREAM's contracts are non-exclusive outside of Japan anyway. The deal also allows for DREAM's exclusive fighters (Aoki for example) to potentially compete on SF events in the US. There's no set "X number of Strikeforce guys will fight on DREAM shows" and vice-versa type deal in place. It's all going to come down to who is willing to give and take. Very little has been said about the similar deal that DREAM had in place with Elite XC, a dead which fell appart due a dissagreement over the use of Nick Diaz, hardly a top attraction at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACCBiggz Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Speaking of Nick, he should beat Zaromskis without too much difficulty in my opinion. Then again he likes to bang which isn't good. So I don't know after all... >_> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Speaking of Nick, he should beat Zaromskis without too much difficulty in my opinion. Then again he likes to bang which isn't good. So I don't know after all... >_> Should be a cracking fight while it lasts though - props to whoever put that one together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RennikKain076 Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I hope they'll have Jay Heiron ready to step in incase Diaz cant pass the drug test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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