Official NBA Discussion Thread

[PeterHilton]

Could be. Could be I'm a die hard Knicks fan. I just wish someone nowadays had the balls and passion to set a proper screen or take someone out going to the hole to show the points don't come easy.

 

But of course that happens away from the ball and lowers scoring so it's not flashy...so no one cares T.T

 

It was awful basketball and it set the league back like 10 years.

 

I get the toughness factor, but basketball is a game of motion, passes, and teamwork and everything Riley installed for the Kicks and the Heat was the opposite of that.

 

Games turned into wars of attrition. Awful.

[Astil]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PeterHilton" data-cite="PeterHilton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It was awful basketball and it set the league back like 10 years.<p> </p><p> I get the toughness factor, but basketball is a game of motion, passes, and teamwork and everything Riley installed for the Kicks and the Heat was the opposite of that. </p><p> </p><p> Games turned into wars of attrition. Awful.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That's your opinion.</p><p> </p><p> What about Detroit in the late 80s? Did that set the league back too?</p>

[PeterHilton]

That's your opinion.

 

What about Detroit in the late 80s? Did that set the league back too?

 

Yes.

[Remianen]

Different strokes, I guess. There are apparently many people who love today's "streetball" style, with all its iso plays and clearouts. Speaking as a vastly undersized 4 (3 in double center situations) who patterned his game after people like Rodman (you know, defense and rebounding, the little things that produce championships. Bruce Bowen too), today's game is so freakin' soft, it's hard to watch and take seriously. What the hell are you doing when your man has a foot of space with which to shoot? If a guard can go to the hole with no fear, you've lost because he's going to keep doing that, until you put him on his back.

 

Everything can be taken to extremes but I really don't like today's frequency of 131-127 scores and people setting lukewarm screens. It's gotten to the point where people who take charges are lauded as somehow extraordinary (really??) when that was part of the "basics" when I was taught.

 

People want to see scoring, I get that. Doesn't mean the only way for the game to be played is with powder puff defense. Then again, my primary game is (and always will be) football and I'm one of the oddball fans who actually pays attention to "the war in the trenches" and schemes and such.

[PeterHilton]

Different strokes, I guess. There are apparently many people who love today's "streetball" style, with all its iso plays and clearouts. Speaking as a vastly undersized 4 (3 in double center situations) who patterned his game after people like Rodman (you know, defense and rebounding, the little things that produce championships. Bruce Bowen too), today's game is so freakin' soft, it's hard to watch and take seriously. What the hell are you doing when your man has a foot of space with which to shoot? If a guard can go to the hole with no fear, you've lost because he's going to keep doing that, until you put him on his back.

 

 

Talking about two extremes though. I didn't like watching Detroit and New York.

 

By the same token, I don't take the Suns or the Knicks seriously today because of the up tempo style and complete lack defense.

 

Somewhere in between...I enjoyed the Spurs title teams, I think the Lakers, Celtics, Magic currently play tough defense but still execute well on offense, I liked the Nuggets teams from two seasons ago that were physical as hell but could still run the floor....

 

Again, I appreciate defense. But the Riley Knicks and the Bad Boy Pistons played ugly as hell, it wasn't fun to watch, and the NA had to spend years adjusting rules to get teams away from it.

[Astil]

Different strokes, I guess. There are apparently many people who love today's "streetball" style, with all its iso plays and clearouts. Speaking as a vastly undersized 4 (3 in double center situations) who patterned his game after people like Rodman (you know, defense and rebounding, the little things that produce championships. Bruce Bowen too), today's game is so freakin' soft, it's hard to watch and take seriously. What the hell are you doing when your man has a foot of space with which to shoot? If a guard can go to the hole with no fear, you've lost because he's going to keep doing that, until you put him on his back.

 

Everything can be taken to extremes but I really don't like today's frequency of 131-127 scores and people setting lukewarm screens. It's gotten to the point where people who take charges are lauded as somehow extraordinary (really??) when that was part of the "basics" when I was taught.

 

People want to see scoring, I get that. Doesn't mean the only way for the game to be played is with powder puff defense. Then again, my primary game is (and always will be) football and I'm one of the oddball fans who actually pays attention to "the war in the trenches" and schemes and such.

 

This. Why even bother playing defense in the NBA.

 

You know why Bill Russell won 11 rings and todays players cap out at 6 or 7. Defense.

[Stennick]

You're saying most players in the NBA win 6-7 championships? The guy played 50 years ago it was an entirely different game back then. I'm not saying he wasn't one of the greatest players ever but I can't see any players winning 11 championships now days. More teams, more players, free agency, etc.

 

You can bring up a lot of things about how Russell inspired his team by playing great D and how great D can win championships but to say thats the reason nobody is winning 11 championships and then to say most players cap at 6-7 is silly. Most players are lucky to get ONE. I mean Kobe's at what? FIVE, Shaq's at FOUR, so no most players don't cap at 6-7.

[Astil]

You're saying most players in the NBA win 6-7 championships? The guy played 50 years ago it was an entirely different game back then. I'm not saying he wasn't one of the greatest players ever but I can't see any players winning 11 championships now days. More teams, more players, free agency, etc.

 

You can bring up a lot of things about how Russell inspired his team by playing great D and how great D can win championships but to say thats the reason nobody is winning 11 championships and then to say most players cap at 6-7 is silly. Most players are lucky to get ONE. I mean Kobe's at what? FIVE, Shaq's at FOUR, so no most players don't cap at 6-7.

 

Uh what?

 

Cap =/= average. See salary cap.

[Stennick]

I'm sorry I mis understood please continue sorry

[PeterHilton]

This. Why even bother playing defense in the NBA.

 

You know why Bill Russell won 11 rings and todays players cap out at 6 or 7. Defense.

 

Yeah that's it...the reason players don't win 11 title..because they played DEFENSE back then and no one does now

 

Nothing to do with the size of the league, the popularity of the game, the greater depth of talent, the rules restricting roster movement and when and how teams sign and draft players, the expansion of the game to international markets...

 

It's because old timey basketball players played DEFENSE like no one in today's game can..durn those whippersnappers!!!

 

What are you, 90?

[Astil]

Yeah that's it...the reason players don't win 11 title..because they played DEFENSE back then and no one does now

 

Nothing to do with the size of the league, the popularity of the game, the greater depth of talent, the rules restricting roster movement and when and how teams sign and draft players, the expansion of the game to international markets...

 

It's because old timey basketball players played DEFENSE like no one in today's game can..durn those whippersnappers!!!

 

What are you, 90?

 

:p:p My younger brother just yelled at me the same thing.

 

Okay, so I overate defense a bit. Sue me.

[PeterHilton]

:p:p My younger brother just yelled at me the same thing.

 

Okay, so I overate defense a bit. Sue me.

 

Haha...no it's fine.

 

I like defense too. I just like to see a balanced team that can do both.

 

The Jordan Bulls were phenomenal on defense and they still ran a really good offense and used a lot of passing in the post to move the ball. The Bird Celtics were as physical as any team in that era but still lit up scoreboards.

 

it's a personal preference ..i can respect that.

[GatorBait19]

Yeah that's it...the reason players don't win 11 title..because they played DEFENSE back then and no one does now

 

Nothing to do with the size of the league, the popularity of the game, the greater depth of talent, the rules restricting roster movement and when and how teams sign and draft players, the expansion of the game to international markets...

 

It's because old timey basketball players played DEFENSE like no one in today's game can..durn those whippersnappers!!!

 

What are you, 90?

 

I agree 100%. It's not all about the defense, it has a lot to do with the expanison of the game.

 

 

 

The defense of today is much different then the defense of yesteryear. Also though it must be mentioned that besides what Peter said the gameplay is much different as well.

 

It's like football when old time QB and Defensive players laugh at today's QB when they cry about something. In the NBA fouls are called much easier, I remember reading an article about Wilt when he said that he would go the the charity strip 14 times a game, but every foul was a hard one. Now a days people get bumped the wrong way going to shoot and it's a free trip.

 

The 3 point was awarded in I believe 79, that changed the game as well.

 

All together, I believe there are many reasons why people don't win 11 championships anymore. Defense is a reason, but also the fact that any team can go from a contender to a loser and vice versa is the biggest reason.

[Remianen]

I think the difference is team defense. Those Spurs title teams were driven defensively by a bench player/occasional starter (Bruce Bowen). The next time you watch those Spurs teams, look at how Bowen would d his man. Likewise, Shane Battier (a few years ago), and today with his declining skills, KG. Ron Artest owes his career to his defensive ability. Erick Dampier is basically a foul machine, even when it's not called (and he's extremely crafty about it). The teams you cite as ones you dislike played that defensive style as a team. Everybody banged, no matter where they happened to be on the floor. Whereas nowadays you have one to three people on each team who do that when they get some burn, Riley's Knicks and Heat had twelve people who did it all day, every day. The same thing with the Pistons. Yes, everyone knew if you went to the hole, Laimbeer was going to toss a "careless" elbow and Mahorn was going to hack the living daylights out of you and maul you the entire game. However, those Celtics teams you mentioned also had a man by the name of Robert Parish ("the Chief") who was known for doing the exact same thing. Kevin McHale with his gangly body wasn't above doing it either.

 

In today's game, few people take pride in their defense and those who finally have the light go on (i.e. You can't be great without contending for Defensive Player of the Year), "all of a sudden" become seemingly transcendent.

 

Again though, I don't expect my point of view to be in line with many others since, for the most part, when watching a game, I don't watch the ball at all (or rather, very rarely). So I see how lax many players are if their man doesn't have the rock.

[PeterHilton]

The problem became that

 

A) their defense was such a focal point that they didn't seem to execute on offense

 

and

 

B) the league was so lenient on calling touch fouls that teams could body up everywhere on the floor and the game would grind to a complete halt.

 

The handcheck rule and some of the other things that came about regarding off the ball defense were a direct result of that style of play.

 

So in a lot of ways many teams today CAN'T play defense the way those Pistons/Knicks/Heatteams did, even if they wanted to.

[PeterHilton]

<p><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5401230" rel="external nofollow">http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5401230</a></p><p> </p><p>

That sound you hear is GatorBait drooling at the possibility of a Chris Paul/Dwight Howard combo.</p>

[GatorBait19]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PeterHilton" data-cite="PeterHilton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5401230" rel="external nofollow">http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5401230</a><p> </p><p> That sound you hear is GatorBait drooling at the possibility of a Chris Paul/Dwight Howard combo.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Dude you have no idea. Out here in Central Florida (Includes West, Central, and East) we are hearing everything from Paul coming this year and a chance that we could do a sign and trade next year with the nuggets for Melo. We have probably heard 6 different possible things.</p>

[jbergey_2005]

I have no problems with a team doing what it needs to win. I find the Spurs more boring than either the last 80's Pistons or the late 90's Knicks probably because Duncan has no personality on the court. I wish the NBA would move the rims up to 11 feet so we can watch real basketball again. The athletes in the NBA today are too athletic and tall for 10 foot rims.

 

I tend to enjoy college hoops much more as it is a team game where the NBA is too much individual play for my liking.

[lazorbeak]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="jbergey_2005" data-cite="jbergey_2005" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I have no problems with a team doing what it needs to win. I find the Spurs more boring than either the last 80's Pistons or the late 90's Knicks probably because Duncan has no personality on the court. I wish the NBA would move the rims up to 11 feet so we can watch real basketball again. The athletes in the NBA today are too athletic and tall for 10 foot rims.<p> </p><p> I tend to enjoy college hoops much more as it is a team game where the NBA is too much individual play for my liking.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Doesn't seem fair to hate on Duncan and then say "I like college ball because it's more team oriented." <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> I believe it was team ball that embarrassed Lebron James 3 years ago. Yeah Duncan's incredibly bland but he's a workhorse and that team plays 5 man ball as good as any team out there without having a single "superstar" player.</p>

[Astil]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Remianen" data-cite="Remianen" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I think the difference is team defense. Those Spurs title teams were driven defensively by a bench player/occasional starter (Bruce Bowen). The next time you watch those Spurs teams, look at how Bowen would d his man. Likewise, Shane Battier (a few years ago), and today with his declining skills, KG. Ron Artest owes his career to his defensive ability. Erick Dampier is basically a foul machine, even when it's not called (and he's extremely crafty about it). The teams you cite as ones you dislike played that defensive style <strong><em>as a team</em></strong>. Everybody banged, no matter where they happened to be on the floor. Whereas nowadays you have one to three people on each team who do that when they get some burn, Riley's Knicks and Heat had twelve people who did it all day, every day. The same thing with the Pistons. Yes, everyone knew if you went to the hole, Laimbeer was going to toss a "careless" elbow and Mahorn was going to hack the living daylights out of you and maul you the entire game. However, those Celtics teams you mentioned also had a man by the name of Robert Parish ("the Chief") who was known for doing the <strong><em>exact same thing</em></strong>. Kevin McHale with his gangly body wasn't above doing it either.<p> </p><p> In today's game, few people take pride in their defense and those who finally have the light go on (i.e. You can't be great without contending for Defensive Player of the Year), "all of a sudden" become seemingly transcendent. </p><p> </p><p> Again though, I don't expect my point of view to be in line with many others since, for the most part, when watching a game, I don't watch the ball at all (or rather, very rarely). So I see how lax many players are if their man doesn't have the rock.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Dude, some day you and I should go to a Knicks game together. You seem like the type of guy I want to watch basketball with.</p>

[Tha Black Phenom]

Shaq in white and green, possibly. Haha, that got a chuckle out of me.

[BHK1978]

It looks like Melo might end up on the Nets. I really hate it when a star player holds a team hostage and forces the team to trade them. I guess that is what you get when you have a bunch of spoiled millionaires running around.

[CQI13]

Nuggets didn't have to trade him. But it was probably the smartest of the two decisions.

[BHK1978]

Nuggets didn't have to trade him. But it was probably the smartest of the two decisions.

 

That is true, but he is kind of forcing their hand. I guess you might as well get something for him, instead of letting him leave after the season is over. I just am not a huge fan of players taking teams hostage.

[GatorBait19]

That is true, but he is kind of forcing their hand. I guess you might as well get something for him, instead of letting him leave after the season is over. I just am not a huge fan of players taking teams hostage.

 

It's a smart move to get something for him if he wants out.