MGreene78 Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 So with the Magic and Hawks series now over I must say I wasn't impressed with either team. Magic got outplayed but I didn't see the team I saw in the season. Dwight had a great series and oddly so did Arenas and even Jameer looked good. Bass played nicely and has earned his PF spot to me, but Hedo, Anderson, and others were just horrible. They couldn't cover, they just couldn't stop anyone. Hawks I am worried about as well. Josh Smith was horrible in this series, he was making dumb play after dumb play. Without Jamal and Joe (who looks to earn that contract) the Hawks wouldn't have been there. Also outside of the first game the Hawks were either blown out or struggled against the Magic to win. The Bulls, Heat, and C's are all more talented. I think the Magic need to have an amazing off-season to keep Dwight. I truly think he loves being in Orland plus the fact he is the number one scoring option, but I don't think anyone else is worth a damn on that team and that includes Stan's dream of living and dying by the 3. They have now died by it for the 4th straight playoffs. They need to go out there and get Chris Paul. The whole roster outside of Dwight is tradeable. You need a star to go along with Dwight. Paul could be the best fit for Dwight co-worker. J.J. Redick I think has shown he can handle the SG position as well, but that's about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorBait19 Posted April 29, 2011 Author Share Posted April 29, 2011 ESPN was doing a highlight video of the Heat vs C's and I must say I am excited about this series. The reason is simple, the hate these two teams have for each other is incredible. Oh and Rondo has become one of my favorite players with the trying to get into the Heat huddle during one other games and Lebron continuing to kick him out. He looked like a little kid trying to play with the big boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crownsy Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 ESPN was doing a highlight video of the Heat vs C's and I must say I am excited about this series. The reason is simple, the hate these two teams have for each other is incredible. Oh and Rondo has become one of my favorite players with the trying to get into the Heat huddle during one other games and Lebron continuing to kick him out. He looked like a little kid trying to play with the big boys. I loved what that play showed about his awareness too, what people miss is that the heat haden't called a timeout, they just decided to take an impromptu meeting with their coach during a ref stoppage (think it might have been a clock issue) They said afterward (they being lebron) that what rondo did was against the rules and should have been dealt with by the refs, but actually your not allowed to keep someone off a specific area of the court without a timeout, and rondo knew it. Great job being a pest and getting in peoples heads by rajon Can;t wait for tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiquidSwords Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6437202 this kind of surprised me for a couple of reasons. First Smart was hand chosen by the new ownership to replace Don Nelson, Second they had a 10 game improvement, 3rd I really think they are one Defensive guy away from be extremely dangerous. I was joking around with someone the other day that if I was Dwight Howard I would work a deal with the Warriors if I was going to leave the Magic, because honestly the Warriors with the Dwight (you can even get rid of Lee) would be one of the best teams in the league with Curry, Ellis, and Howard. Anyways, I think Smart will get another chance, I liked watching the Warriors this year. I don't know where he would land though I was not surprised. The owner of the Warriors has constantly stated that he wants to win now and expects to make the playoffs next year. Smart was an average coach at best but the Warriors have to sort out their roster before even thinking about making the playoffs. They need to find an actual center and also decided if they are going to trade Curry or Ellis or both players. I feel bad for Dwight. Otis Smith really screwed up the Magic and has basically put them in cap hell with Turkoglu and Arenas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbergey_2005 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 So Charles Barkley was on the Dan Patrick show this morning and he said Tim Duncan and him were the best PF in the history of the game with Karl coming in 3rd. He said the only reason Karl had numbers like he did was because of Stockton. He also said Rondo is extremely talented, but the only reason he is considered top 5 PG is because he plays with so much talent. He said Rondo is the PG you want if you have scorers on your team, but not the guy you want to be your leader which is why he isn't in his top 5. Chuck says a lot of things that make a lot of sense. Based on body of work it would be hard to argue with him athough I do think if Chuck played at the same time as KG/Duncan he would consider himself the 3rd best PF of all time;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHK1978 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Celtics are going to lose in five or six. As much as that pains me to say that, I feel it is the truth. They have nobody at Center that can help them get past the Heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorBait19 Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="LiquidSwords" data-cite="LiquidSwords" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I was not surprised. The owner of the Warriors has constantly stated that he wants to win now and expects to make the playoffs next year. Smart was an average coach at best but the Warriors have to sort out their roster before even thinking about making the playoffs. They need to find an actual center and also decided if they are going to trade Curry or Ellis or both players.<p> </p><p> <strong>I feel bad for Dwight. Otis Smith really screwed up the Magic and has basically put them in cap hell with Turkoglu and Arenas</strong>.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> we had him at the beginning of the season and Dwight looked fresh and happy with the team. He did a conf. a couple of days ago and he just looks beaten and tired of doing it himself. The Magic have the C to dominate, now they need to find him that guy who can drop 20 a night like nothing. Problem is Hedo and Arenas can't be traded because of those contracts. Arenas in the little time he had looked impressive on the floor in the post season and the offense ran smoother than with Nelson.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorBait19 Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BHK1978" data-cite="BHK1978" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Celtics are going to lose in five or six. As much as that pains me to say that, I feel it is the truth. They have nobody at Center that can help them get past the Heat.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> have faith, the C's will look back on this lost and fix their problems.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crownsy Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BHK1978" data-cite="BHK1978" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Celtics are going to lose in five or six. As much as that pains me to say that, I feel it is the truth. They have nobody at Center that can help them get past the Heat.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> i wouldn't be surprised if we lost in 6, but im not really worried yet. I didn't exactly expect them to win game 1 in miami.</p><p> </p><p> Series between good teams don't start till a home team loses. (or they cultivate in a game 7 haha)</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHK1978 Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 I am glad to see the Lakers gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michgcs Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 I am glad to see the Lakers gone. I am not surprised that you are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHK1978 Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 I am not surprised that you are Yeah I have always hated the Lakers and it has nothing to do with being a Celtics fan (Who I still say will be eliminated by the Heat). Maybe my dislike of them is much like the irrational hate that the common baseball fan has for the Yankees. And what was up with those thug like hits in the game? Was I watching the Rodman era Pistons or the Lakers? Oh well I am glad to see Phil go out like this, I have always felt he was overrated anyway (And no I am not going to get into a debate for the third time about Phil Jackson so any responses directed to my comment will be met with silence no matter how insulting the person is to me.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michgcs Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Yeah I have always hated the Lakers and it has nothing to do with being a Celtics fan (Who I still say will be eliminated by the Heat). Maybe my dislike of them is much like the irrational hate that the common baseball fan has for the Yankees. And what was up with those thug like hits in the game? Was I watching the Rodman era Pistons or the Lakers? Oh well I am glad to see Phil go out like this, I have always felt he was overrated anyway (And know I am not going to get into a debated for the third time about Phil Jackson so any responses directed to my comment will be met with silence no matter how insulting the person is to me.). Ah, well, I'm a Kobe fan (not a fan of the person, but moreso because of the circumstances surrounding him-- that is, he has a lot of haters ), but that's just about the only reason I want the Lakers to succeed. Still, nice to see the Mavs do well. Hopefully it's a Mavericks-Heat finals, with the Mavs gaining revenge and retribution for the injustice that was committed by the refs 5 years ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BHK1978" data-cite="BHK1978" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>And what was up with those thug like hits in the game? Was I watching the Rodman era Pistons or the Lakers? Oh well I am glad to see Phil go out like this, I have always felt he was overrated anyway (And no I am not going to get into a debate for the third time about Phil Jackson so any responses directed to my comment will be met with silence no matter how insulting the person is to me.).</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It's hard to rate the greatest NBA coach of all time too highly. <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbergey_2005 Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 <p>11 Championships in 22 years at a time of free agency and Stern pushing for league parity is simply amazing work by Phil. I dont think we will see a coaching run like that in any sport ever again.</p><p> </p><p> Too bad the Lakers had to end if for him is such a classless way.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHK1978 Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lazorbeak" data-cite="lazorbeak" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It's hard to rate the greatest NBA coach of all time too highly. <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="jbergey_2005" data-cite="jbergey_2005" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>11 Championships in 22 years at a time of free agency and Stern pushing for league parity is simply amazing work by Phil. I dont think we will see a coaching run like that in any sport ever again.<p> </p><p> Too bad the Lakers had to end if for him is such a classless way.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Okay I know I said I would not respond but nobody called me an idiot this time so I shall.<img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> Is it his coaching ability that has won him all of those championships? Or is it the talent on the team that got him to the top? Or is it a combination of both? </p><p> </p><p> After all, he has been able to be the head coach of the two greatest players of their generation (Jordan and Kobe). And in Jordan's case possibly the greatest player off all time (Though I do think Wilt and Bill Russell could be put into that arguement as well.). He also had other Hall of Famers on his team in Shaq, Scottie Pippen, and Karl Malone. Also his Lakers and Bulls teams had other players who were very talented with the likes of Ron Harper, Horace Grant, Robert Horry, Derek Fisher, Gary Payton, etcetera.</p><p> </p><p> Looking outside of Basketball let us take a look at Baseball. Should Joe Torre be considered the greatest manager off all time for the amount of World Series he has won? The talent was there for him on the Yankees. However, when the talent was not around him with the Mets, Cardinals, or Dodgers he was just an all right manager.</p><p> </p><p> Casey Stengel won seven World Series one could probably say that he should be considered the greatest manager in the history of baseball. However, before and after he was manager of the Yankees he had no success. </p><p> </p><p> Warren Spahn once said of Casey Stengel, "I'm probably the only guy who worked for (Casey) Stengel before and after he was a genius." Meaning he played for Casey before and after his tenure as manager of the Yankees. Was Casey a genius and the greatest manager in the history of baseball because of the talent or because he truly was a great manager? Looking at his history one can reason it had to do with talent because when he was a manager of a team that lacked talent he did not win.</p><p> </p><p> Finally there is Bill Belichick. As Coach of the Browns he was horrible. However, once he went to New England and had a team with talent he went on to be considered a genius and one of the best coaches in the history of the NFL. Now is Belichick a true genius or was it the talent on the teams that he was the head coach of.</p><p> </p><p> That is why I say Phil is overrated in my book because he was never the coach of a truly bad team so we do not know just how good he is. His teams always had talent on them.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbergey_2005 Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BHK1978" data-cite="BHK1978" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Okay I know I said I would not respond but nobody called me an idiot this time so I shall.<img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> Is it his coaching ability that has won him all of those championships? Or is it the talent on the team that got him to the top? Or is it a combination of both? <p> </p><p> After all, he has been able to be the head coach of the two greatest players of their generation (Jordan and Kobe). And in Jordan's case possibly the greatest player off all time (Though I do think Wilt and Bill Russell could be put into that arguement as well.). He also had other Hall of Famers on his team in Shaq, Scottie Pippen, and Karl Malone. Also his Lakers and Bulls teams had other players who were very talented with the likes of Ron Harper, Horace Grant, Robert Horry, Derek Fisher, Gary Payton, etcetera.</p><p> </p><p> Looking outside of Basketball let us take a look at Baseball. Should Joe Torre be considered the greatest manager off all time for the amount of World Series he has won? The talent was there for him on the Yankees. However, when the talent was not around him with the Mets, Cardinals, or Dodgers he was just an all right manager.</p><p> </p><p> Casey Stengel won seven World Series one could probably say that he should be considered the greatest manager in the history of baseball. However, before and after he was manager of the Yankees he had no success. </p><p> </p><p> Warren Spahn once said of Casey Stengel, "I'm probably the only guy who worked for (Casey) Stengel before and after he was a genius." Meaning he played for Casey before and after his tenure as manager of the Yankees. Was Casey a genius and the greatest manager in the history of baseball because of the talent or because he truly was a great manager? Looking at his history one can reason it had to do with talent because when he was a manager of a team that lacked talent he did not win.</p><p> </p><p> Finally there is Bill Belichick. As Coach of the Browns he was horrible. However, once he went to New England and had a team with talent he went on to be considered a genius and one of the best coaches in the history of the NFL. Now is Belichick a true genius or was it the talent on the teams that he was the head coach of.</p><p> </p><p> <strong>That is why I say Phil is overrated in my book because he was never the coach of a truly bad team so we do not know just how good he is. His teams always had talent on them</strong>.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> As the debate always starts. So how many championships did MJ win or Kobe win without Phil as their head coach? In addition, I cant think of any team in any sport that has ever won without talent so Im not sure how that is a point against Phil. If Phil went to Orlando and won 3 championships you would claim he is overrated because they have Dwight Howard. </p><p> </p><p> Phil needed talent to win however their is a hell of a lot of talent that doesnt win.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 We already had this debate and clearly you're not going to change your mind, however the facts are clearly there for anyone persuaded by stuff like "facts." I'll just play this handy video package. Yeah no. Factually he IS the greatest coach of all time. The numbers say this pretty definitively. He has coached the team with the best record in NBA history and has the highest playoff winning percentage ever. He's coached teams to the finals 12 times in 18 seasons and won 10 championships. And he did it after free agency and the expansion of the league. Red coached teams with 9 hall of fame players in a league that expanded to ten his final year. Quick, name 9 HOF players Phil has coached: Kobe, MJ, Shaq, Pippen, um... Horace Grant? John Paxson? Derek Fisher? But he is pretty much the greatest coach at building a roster that compliments his stars and developing team chemistry. Seriously, # of rings won by Kobe, MJ, Shaq and Pippen without Jackson? 1, Shaq's ring in Miami. The numbers just aren't there for any other coach in the history of the league. I said this before he won another championship last season. So he had the best numbers ever, then won again. Re the "opportunist" argument: He had retired from coaching and was for all intents and purposes done. Why would he go back to a head coaching job with the Wizards or Clippers? He didn't have anything to prove to anybody. Those teams didn't have the money or the system to lure him back into the game. Also Kobe and Shaq had been teammates for 3 seasons and had combined for zero championships. Argument that "he had good players": If it easy then why can no one in the history of the sport compare to what Jackson's done? Why couldn't Rodman win on a Spurs team that featured David Robinson and Sean Eliott? Why can't the Mavs win with a team that's full of talented players every season? Why did a Blazers team that featured a great frontcourt of Sabonis, Briant Grant and Rasheed Wallace fail to even make it to a finals, even when they added pieces like Steve Smith and Scottie Pippen? Why couldn't the Kings, with Webber, Divac, Bibby, Christie, and Peja Stokavic and great role players like Turkoglu and Bobby Jackson win a title? The argument that Jackson just had good players doesn't hold water since 1) the same players haven't shown an ability to win without him, and 2) hugely talented teams fail to win the championship every year. How many rings does Lebron have, despite being surrounded with a very good point guard, excellent role players, and a hall of fame center? Why haven't the Suns even made it to the finals with their talent? Re: "he only coached good teams!": First of all, why would he do that? And second of all, yes! He turned a 34 win Lakers team into champions in 4 years, and kept only 4 guys from that 34 win team: Kobe, Odom, Walton, and Vujacic. Is it so hard to imagine rebuilding a team like the Clippers assuming they'd be willing to spend some money and re-structure some of their nonsensical deals? ... Most franchises aren't willing to make such a long-term commitment to success which makes the ones that do stand out. Yes when I say Phil Jackson is statistically the greatest coach in NBA history it is a fact because he has the best statistics in NBA history to back him up. We're not talking about a guy who lucked into a situation and won a title or two without understanding how, we're talking about someone who holds virtually every coaching record that isn't based on longevity and who has had repeated success that no one in NBA history can compare to. When I say that I think he's the best coach ever based on those statistics, yes that is an opinion, but it's one that I have no shortage of factual support for. It's become such an assumption that Phil Jackson coached teams must win that the only time he won coach of the year was when the Bulls set the all-time regular season record. I don't understand the need for the sarcastic parenthetical, either. I don't think I've said anything to indicate I don't want a dialogue and if I did, I apologize for it. But to act like I'm not even responding to your arguments is disrespectful and unnecessary. Just like your opinion is built on facts (Jackson taking over the Bulls when they were already getting good, Jackson taking over the Lakers that were already talented), mine was focused on rebutting those facts (how the Lakers were re-built, lack of success for players without Jackson, the fact that no one in history can compare to what Jackson has accomplished despite talented teams) with other facts. This is how debate works. It's fine if you feel like you've made your points, but it's not like we're just spitting in the wind here or I'm calling you names or not listening to you. Ah, memories. Also lol at the idea that Jackson had "hall of famer" Karl Malone. He had a 40 year old power forward for one season. I've brought it up before but Red had nine hall of famers including one of the best defensive players ever in a league with ten teams, all of them for more than a single season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candyman Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Okay I know I said I would not respond but nobody called me an idiot this time so I shall. Is it his coaching ability that has won him all of those championships? Or is it the talent on the team that got him to the top? Or is it a combination of both? After all, he has been able to be the head coach of the two greatest players of their generation (Jordan and Kobe). And in Jordan's case possibly the greatest player off all time (Though I do think Wilt and Bill Russell could be put into that arguement as well.). He also had other Hall of Famers on his team in Shaq, Scottie Pippen, and Karl Malone. Also his Lakers and Bulls teams had other players who were very talented with the likes of Ron Harper, Horace Grant, Robert Horry, Derek Fisher, Gary Payton, etcetera. Looking outside of Basketball let us take a look at Baseball. Should Joe Torre be considered the greatest manager off all time for the amount of World Series he has won? The talent was there for him on the Yankees. However, when the talent was not around him with the Mets, Cardinals, or Dodgers he was just an all right manager. Casey Stengel won seven World Series one could probably say that he should be considered the greatest manager in the history of baseball. However, before and after he was manager of the Yankees he had no success. Warren Spahn once said of Casey Stengel, "I'm probably the only guy who worked for (Casey) Stengel before and after he was a genius." Meaning he played for Casey before and after his tenure as manager of the Yankees. Was Casey a genius and the greatest manager in the history of baseball because of the talent or because he truly was a great manager? Looking at his history one can reason it had to do with talent because when he was a manager of a team that lacked talent he did not win. Finally there is Bill Belichick. As Coach of the Browns he was horrible. However, once he went to New England and had a team with talent he went on to be considered a genius and one of the best coaches in the history of the NFL. Now is Belichick a true genius or was it the talent on the teams that he was the head coach of. That is why I say Phil is overrated in my book because he was never the coach of a truly bad team so we do not know just how good he is. His teams always had talent on them. So who IS the best coach of all time in your book? I'm geniunely curious. Especially since you're a Celtic fan and I KNOW you're not going to say Red Auerbach is the best. I know he is overrated in your book as well. After all, he's the only coach in NBA history who had MORE talent than Phil. And Red's teams did something Phil's never did - they kept winning! Red retired, and they immediately won two more championships! That's more than all those Hall of Famers Phil coached won without him COMBINED. Lazorbeak said everything else I could say, and probably better than I would've said it. The anti Phil arguments just don't hold any water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michgcs Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Candyman" data-cite="Candyman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>So who IS the best coach of all time in your book? I'm geniunely curious. Especially since you're a Celtic fan and I KNOW you're not going to say Red Auerbach is the best. I know he is overrated in your book as well. After all, he's the only coach in NBA history who had MORE talent than Phil. And Red's teams did something Phil's never did - they kept winning! Red retired, and they immediately won two more championships! That's more than all those Hall of Famers Phil coached won without him COMBINED.<p> </p><p> Lazorbeak said everything else I could say, and probably better than I would've said it. The anti Phil arguments just don't hold any water.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> He's probably gonna say Gregg Popovich or Jerry Sloan (maybe) <img alt=":rolleyes:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/rolleyes.png.4b097f4fbbe99ce5bcd5efbc1b773ed6.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHK1978 Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 <p>After this post I am truly done with this. So if you are the type that like claim victory over the internet well make response posts and you can have your victory.<img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="jbergey_2005" data-cite="jbergey_2005" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>As the debate always starts. So how many championships did MJ win or Kobe win without Phil as their head coach? <strong>In addition, I cant think of any team in any sport that has ever won without talent so Im not sure how that is a point against Phil.</strong> If Phil went to Orlando and won 3 championships you would claim he is overrated because they have Dwight Howard. <p> </p><p> Phil needed talent to win however their is a hell of a lot of talent that doesnt win.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The Giants did not have overwhelming talent last year and they won the World Series. The 1989 Reds did not have overwhelming talent and yet they beat a great Oakland team. In the NBA take a look at the 1978-79 Super Sonics, where was the talent on that team? I was basically DJ and pretty much nobody else.</p><p> </p><p> No what I am trying to say is drop Phil on a team with just one good or great player and then see how he does. If he manages to turn that team around then I will agree. However, that will never happen so we shall never know.</p><p> </p><p> Take Bill Parcells, every team he went to was a project and he managed to make them into a respectable team and with the Giants he won two Super Bowls and with the Pats he led the team to the Super Bowl. To me that is the hallmark of a great coach.</p><p> </p><p> @Lazorbeak: Yeah I am not even going to bother addressing anything in regards to what you say, because at the end of the day it is just not worth it. This is not me not wanting to address what you are saying because I cannot. It is just me not willing to deal with you because I promised myself that I would not talk to you, as you are someone on here that I would like to avoid. Although I will say for someone who does not like to be called a troll, you do love to make sarcastic comments. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Candyman" data-cite="Candyman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>So who IS the best coach of all time in your book? I'm geniunely curious. Especially since you're a Celtic fan and I KNOW you're not going to say Red Auerbach is the best. I know he is overrated in your book as well. After all, he's the only coach in NBA history who had MORE talent than Phil. And Red's teams did something Phil's never did - they kept winning! Red retired, and they immediately won two more championships! That's more than all those Hall of Famers Phil coached won without him COMBINED.<p> </p><p> Lazorbeak said everything else I could say, and probably better than I would've said it. The anti Phil arguments just don't hold any water.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You are right Red and Pat Riley would not fit what I am saying because much like Phil they have only coached teams with good talent on them. Basically all I am saying is I would like to see what Phil can do with a crap team. He has never been in a position where he has been a coach of a truly crappy team. Could he turn around a team with a really bad record that is devoid of talent? </p><p> </p><p> I don't know I would love to see him try it but he never will. Therefore, my opinion can never change due to that. I could say the same of Pat Riley, I have never witnessed him turn around a truly bad team so I am not sure if I can consider him truly great either.</p><p> </p><p> As for Red well he is much like Casey Stengel when he was the Head Coach of the Hawks (A team that lacked talent.) he was not all that great. However, once he got the talent he started to win. Much like Stengel was it the talent that made him a great Coach? I would have to say that it was the talent. </p><p> </p><p> As you pointed out the Celtics won with Russell as Head Coach after Red retired. Much like the Yankees did with Ralph Houk. Now do Russell and Houk get put in the elite crowd? Not at all. </p><p> </p><p> Now to answer your question as to who I think is the best of all time. Well to be honest I am not sure. And that is my honest answer. Although Lenny Wilkens did win an NBA Championship with that Super Sonic team that I talked about at the top of the post so there is that.<img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakerNGN74 Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 <p>I was shocked that Dallas was able to defeat the Lakers but happy at the same time. I really got a kick out of the fans singing na na na na hey hey hey good bye.</p><p> </p><p> Now I hope that the Celtics lose to the heat and the heat advances because to be quite honest I don't want to see Boston or the Lakers(Even though they can't win at this point) win.</p><p> </p><p> Plus don't twist what I am saying the wrong way just because I want the heat to beat the Celtics doesn't mean that I want them to win. If the Heat won the title at this point it would mean absolutely nothing in my book because of all the hype that was put on James, Bosh, and the other guy Dwayne Wade all playing together. The hardcore NBA fan probably would think that the Heat had the title in the bag at the beginning of the season (at least that's what a few articles I read were saying) but I hope that it doesn't happen because like I said earlier it would be too obvious.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 <p>More nostalgia:</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BHK1978" data-cite="BHK1978" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>And that is all I am going to say on this subject, there is no need for this topic of discussion to keep on going back and forth. We can agree to disagree, the fact of the matter is we are all dealing in opinions (Yeah I know your opinions are fact and should not be argued against.).</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Some things never change. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BHK1978" data-cite="BHK1978" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>@Lazorbeak: Yeah I am not even going to bother addressing anything in regards to what you say, because at the end of the day it is just not worth it. This is not me not wanting to address what you are saying because I cannot. It is just me not willing to deal with you because I promised myself that I would not talk to you, as you are someone on here that I would like to avoid. Although I will say for someone who does not like to be called a troll, you do love to make sarcastic comments. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You really crack me up. I bring up overwhelming evidence that 1. we've already done this song and dance, and 2.an explanation why nobody shares your opinion, and you have the <em>gall</em> to say something like this? Do I say anything about you personally? You're the one that consistently resorts to insults and dismissiveness when somebody, horror of horrors, argues one of your opinions. </p><p> </p><p> Do you not understand how saying something like this is just encouraging a negative response in kind? You don't come off as a hero stalwartly standing up to the majority opinion, you come off like someone who would rather rely on cheap tactics to avoid making real points. I don't avoid, insult, or otherwise treat you in a way that necessitates this kind of response, and it says a lot more about you than anyone else that you would be so rude as to post "you are someone on here that I would like to avoid." Completely 100% uncalled for. Note that I haven't turned around and made personal attacks against you, because there's no reason to. </p><p> </p><p> Clearly my secret plan is to have a reasonable exchange of ideas until the point I get rudely told that I am basically a troll for showing why someone's arguments look like swiss cheese. If only real life arguments were so easy.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 <p>In more relevant matters, some great games last night. Can't remember the last time two playoff games went to overtime the same day. And the first 3-OT playoff game since Bulls/Celtics a couple of years ago. I like both the Thunder and the Grizzlies, but I really want to see the Thunder in the finals. They were my upset pick western champions before the Spurs and Lakers both managed to choke. Durant's a great shooter who plays underrated defense, Russell Westbrook reminds me of an early Dwayne Wade (although he occasionally makes really bad decisions due to his youth), and Serge Ibaka is one of my favorite players in the league. That said, Shane Battier is another of my favorite players, so I won't be mad if the Grizzlies get to the finals, either.</p><p> </p><p> I'm still not sold on the Heat going all the way, although it's looking bad for the Celtics. You really have to question the Green/Perkins trade right about now.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tha Black Phenom Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 <p>Bad decisions is right, he didn't make one pass to Durant for like a long while during overtime I think. Still though, great players and I echo the prospect of them making the finals. Thunder/Bulls would be ideal for me.</p><p> </p><p> And BHK, we'll agree to disagree on that but if it helps, there's an NBA source somewhere that says Phil wouldn't rule out coaching the Knicks. Of course, whether the source is reputable or not is still unclear so I wouldn't hold my breath on it. He's through with the Lakers but supposedly he could still coach, if the right situation presented itself(or a co-coach position would make things easier for him).</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.