Official NBA Discussion Thread

[Tha Black Phenom]

Thought I might as well resurrect this. Just pretty stoked to see the Bulls take it to the Heat without the MVP. I didn't even know Rose was gonna sit out, so when I found out I didn't watch the game knowing in my mind the Heat would win. When you have LeBron being moved in the rotation to guard a bench player, that's when you know you're dealing with a scary team. And the funniest thing is... apparently the Heat released John Lucas III in the past. That's karmic payback if I've ever seen it.

 

Any thoughts on trade deadline day? It's been pretty dry on that aspect, nothing but rumors, rumors, rumors and the daily Dwight Howard article who can't seem to make his mind up.

[BurningHamster]

I'm really in the mood to watch some Moses Malone.

[bookerman]

Thought I might as well resurrect this. Just pretty stoked to see the Bulls take it to the Heat without the MVP. I didn't even know Rose was gonna sit out, so when I found out I didn't watch the game knowing in my mind the Heat would win. When you have LeBron being moved in the rotation to guard a bench player, that's when you know you're dealing with a scary team. And the funniest thing is... apparently the Heat released John Lucas III in the past. That's karmic payback if I've ever seen it.

 

Any thoughts on trade deadline day? It's been pretty dry on that aspect, nothing but rumors, rumors, rumors and the daily Dwight Howard article who can't seem to make his mind up.

 

Howard is more concerned with being viewed negatively than being the alpha dog on a contender. He's too nice. He can't go somewhere that would a) put pressure on him to produce a title and b)have tough media. He's the Ed Whitson of the NBA. He's perfectly happy putting up his 20-12-3 in Orlando where the cry is "Get Dwight some help" versus going to NJ/LA/Chicago where it would turn into a Howard nit-picking fest. Can you win a title with him as your #2 player? With someone like Kobe/Rose/Lebron/Wade to attract the media attention, yes. Can he win in a big market as the #1? No.

 

BTW his best comparison...he's the evolutionary Dikembe Mutombo. Rebounds and blocks, but not a stone scorer.

[Astil]

Howard is more concerned with being viewed negatively than being the alpha dog on a contender. He's too nice. He can't go somewhere that would a) put pressure on him to produce a title and b)have tough media. He's the Ed Whitson of the NBA. He's perfectly happy putting up his 20-12-3 in Orlando where the cry is "Get Dwight some help" versus going to NJ/LA/Chicago where it would turn into a Howard nit-picking fest. Can you win a title with him as your #2 player? With someone like Kobe/Rose/Lebron/Wade to attract the media attention, yes. Can he win in a big market as the #1? No.

 

BTW his best comparison...he's the evolutionary Dikembe Mutombo. Rebounds and blocks, but not a stone scorer.

 

Seems to me he's more of a PF (like Charles or Karl) stuck at center.

[lazorbeak]

Not sure how Howard's a 4; he has no shot outside of the low block, he doesn't play great perimeter defense (and shouldn't have to), and he's bigger and stronger than 95% of the guys he plays against.

 

Howard is more concerned with being viewed negatively than being the alpha dog on a contender. He's too nice. He can't go somewhere that would a) put pressure on him to produce a title and b)have tough media. He's the Ed Whitson of the NBA. He's perfectly happy putting up his 20-12-3 in Orlando where the cry is "Get Dwight some help" versus going to NJ/LA/Chicago where it would turn into a Howard nit-picking fest. Can you win a title with him as your #2 player? With someone like Kobe/Rose/Lebron/Wade to attract the media attention, yes. Can he win in a big market as the #1? No.

 

BTW his best comparison...he's the evolutionary Dikembe Mutombo. Rebounds and blocks, but not a stone scorer.

 

I don't see it. Mutombo's a defensive freak of nature, but his offense never even approached Dwight's: he averaged less than 15 points a game most every season, even at his peak. And if you took Dikembe's game and added offense, you'd get Hakeem, and Dwight's not really at that level on either side of the ball. He's never averaged more than 23 points or 3 blocks a game, both of which below Hakeem's numbers, not to mention Hakeem's ability to steal the ball based on his quickness, a skill Howard hasn't really developed.

 

Howard's more like the evolution of a Patrick Ewing: if you look at Ewing's stats through his first 4 seasons, they're practically identical, except that Howard gets significantly more rebounds- then again, he has a wing player like Anderson or Turk playing 4, while Ewing played with Charles Oakley. I think everything else you said about him not being good enough to win a ring as the primary star is right on; again, just look at Patrick Ewing and the perennially good but not great Knicks of the 80's and 90's.

[lazorbeak]

<p>So that Joe Lacob halftime show was probably the best pro wrestling angle of the week. Everything from the crowd's reaction to Chris Mullin and Rick Barry coming out with mics to come to Lacob's defense. Also I love that Mullin still has his NY accent. Also great article from Bill Simmons about how the Warriors have managed to constantly avoid success for 40 years: <a href="http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7714701/how-annoy-fan-base-60-easy-steps" rel="external nofollow">http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7714701/how-annoy-fan-base-60-easy-steps</a></p><p> </p><p>

My favorite is how in 1999, they watched their former assistant coach win a championship against one of their former star players, while Chris Mullin and Tim Hardaway led top teams in Indiana and Miami and Chris Webber and the Kings developed into a top team in the west.</p>

[LiquidSwords]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lazorbeak" data-cite="lazorbeak" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>So that Joe Lacob halftime show was probably the best pro wrestling angle of the week. Everything from the crowd's reaction to Chris Mullin and Rick Barry coming out with mics to come to Lacob's defense. Also I love that Mullin still has his NY accent. Also great article from Bill Simmons about how the Warriors have managed to constantly avoid success for 40 years: <a href="http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7714701/how-annoy-fan-base-60-easy-steps" rel="external nofollow">http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7714701/how-annoy-fan-base-60-easy-steps</a><p> </p><p> My favorite is how in 1999, they watched their former assistant coach win a championship against one of their former star players, while Chris Mullin and Tim Hardaway led top teams in Indiana and Miami and Chris Webber and the Kings developed into a top team in the west.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Golden State is an interesting team. They have a lot of good things going for them that some NBA teams don't (good market, strong fanbase). Its just that they can't seem to get it together. Their cap situation is terrible now because of Richard Jefferson, David Lee, and Biedrins. Bogut could be tossed in that group as well if he is not able to recover from his injury issues. They made a horrible move using their amnesty on Charlie Bell instead of Biedrins. Plus Steph Curry is due for a contract extention soon. Also the Warriors don't even have their first round pick this year because they traded the pick to Utah a few years ago.</p>

[lazorbeak]

Golden State is an interesting team. They have a lot of good things going for them that some NBA teams don't (good market, strong fanbase). Its just that they can't seem to get it together. Their cap situation is terrible now because of Richard Jefferson, David Lee, and Biedrins. Bogut could be tossed in that group as well if he is not able to recover from his injury issues. They made a horrible move using their amnesty on Charlie Bell instead of Biedrins. Plus Steph Curry is due for a contract extention soon. Also the Warriors don't even have their first round pick this year because they traded the pick to Utah a few years ago.

 

They actually keep the pick if it's in the top 7. Unfortunately, right now they have the 9th worst record in the league, so they only keep that pick if they get passed by a few other bad teams or get a lucky bounce in the lottery. But the franchise has really been a case of missed opportunities. I like Curry and I think they can build around him, and trading Monta is probably a good move since he's not sure if he's a 1 or a 2 and he can't defend either position, so he doesn't fit into this new image of Golden State as a "defensive" team. Trading for Bogut does make it seem nuts to continue paying 10 mil a year for a center that averages about 2 points per game, so the Bell amnesty was a huge mistake. Jefferson is/was another amnesty candidate, so maybe they're hoping to just grow next season and then have a bunch of cap room in 2 years when they get out of these awful pre-lockout deals. Unlike Portland, which was just giving talent away (and picking up guys that look like busts in Flynn and Thabeet), the Warriors are getting talented players, just guys that aren't worth what they're being paid.

[Unregistered]

They actually keep the pick if it's in the top 7. Unfortunately, right now they have the 9th worst record in the league, so they only keep that pick if they get passed by a few other bad teams or get a lucky bounce in the lottery. But the franchise has really been a case of missed opportunities. I like Curry and I think they can build around him, and trading Monta is probably a good move since he's not sure if he's a 1 or a 2 and he can't defend either position, so he doesn't fit into this new image of Golden State as a "defensive" team. Trading for Bogut does make it seem nuts to continue paying 10 mil a year for a center that averages about 2 points per game, so the Bell amnesty was a huge mistake. Jefferson is/was another amnesty candidate, so maybe they're hoping to just grow next season and then have a bunch of cap room in 2 years when they get out of these awful pre-lockout deals. Unlike Portland, which was just giving talent away (and picking up guys that look like busts in Flynn and Thabeet), the Warriors are getting talented players, just guys that aren't worth what they're being paid.

 

I'd prefer pay Flynn and Thabeet because they may in fact play, over Bogut who most likely won't due to injury after injury. Plus Portland got JJ Hickson. A much better signing over Bogut in my opinion.

[lazorbeak]

<p>Ankle injuries aren't that bad to come back from compared to knee/foot problems, so I'm sure Bogut will be back next season. He does have a track record of not playing, but there aren't a lot of 7 footers in the league that consistently get 15 points, 10 boards and 2.5 blocks a game. On paper the Warriors could be a playoff team next season if their young guards develop and Lee and Bogut can play a majority of the season.</p><p> </p><p>

I'd take Bogut for half a season over Thabeet any day: the guy just doesn't have it, and he's making mid-level contract money to not play.</p>

[Unregistered]

 

I'd take Bogut for half a season over Thabeet any day: the guy just doesn't have it, and he's making mid-level contract money to not play.

 

How much longer is Thabeets contract versus Boguts? My guess is Thabeet is almost out of contract.

 

I don't see Bogut ever being a full season player again. His ankles are just the first thing to go. His knee's will go sooner then later, with all the added stress. If Bogut stayed healthy, it would be great. I just don't see that happening.

[lazorbeak]

Wow, this thread died.

 

Playoff thoughts: San Antonio looks like the best team in the west right now, by far. What piano wires will David Stern have to cut to get the Lakers/Clippers match-up we've been building towards ever since he inexplicably vetoed Kobe/Paul on the same team? In terms of talent but less exciting stories, San Antonio and OKC are quietly the best two teams in the league.

 

Boston's going to beat Philadelphia, but don't expect it to be a cakewalk- the Celtics are flat-out old, and if Philly scores, Boston may be unable to catch up. Look for ugly games. How long and how far can Rondo carry the "big 3"? And can we stop calling them that already?

 

Some analysts like Miami to walk over Indiana, but the Pacers closed the season hot and have an actual center in Roy Hibbert that can defend the middle and score inside, two areas where the Heat aren't great. Wade's really the x-factor, as when he plays well, the Pacers won't have answers for him while they try to slow LeBron down. I like the Heat in a competitive 6.

 

Right now I'm thinking we get Spurs/Lakers in the West finals, barring Tony Parker getting deported or Tim Duncan suffering amnesia. OKC's a great team they're just so young and Westbrook occasionally forgets how to make baskets or pass the ball.

 

Heat vs. Celtics has worked out to be nearly a given after the Bulls' went down.

[Tha Black Phenom]

The Spurs are deadly scary. Everybody loves to talk about the Heat/Lakers/Thunder but these guys don't seem like they'll be slowing down anytime soon. Stephen Jackson was exactly what they needed to complement their already commendable hustle.

 

If Stern wants to cut some wires, he'll have to use a chainsaw. OKC has LA's number and LA's bench are not playing like they used to. But we'll see, lucky for them Kobe can pull 40s out of his backside still.

[lazorbeak]

I'm definitely hoping OKC can build on that game 1 win and knock off the Lakers, I'm just not sure you can count on their consistency. I know the prevailing wisdom is that Vinny Del Negro is the worst coach in the second round, but I think Mike Brown is certainly in the running.

 

I said the Heat in 6 before I knew Bosh was done for the series. As much as I don't really like his game, that's a big loss for a team who puts 2-3 complete offensive non-factors in the game at any time. I still think the Heat can get past the Pacers, but only because I don't think you can get to the conference finals without a real point guard, and Darren Collison's not all that good. 10 assists versus 17 turnovers is a pretty poor ratio for a team, even in a win. Granted outrebounding the Heat by 10 makes up for some of that.

 

Not surprising to see the Spurs quietly taking care of business, either. Their second unit would be a playoff team in the East without Parker and Duncan. They've got a great mix of young talent in Leonard and Green to compliment their veterans. Right now only the Thunder look like they'd challenge them.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Despite the Spurs still blazing through, I call the Thunder in 7. It's more wishful prediction than anything, but it could go either way IMO. Spurs have solid IQ, a great coach and experience. OKC has good IQ, athelticism and explosiveness. It's gonna be a good one and a heck of a series. Lakers better start looking into unloading some folks.

[lazorbeak]

Despite the Spurs still blazing through, I call the Thunder in 7. It's more wishful prediction than anything, but it could go either way IMO. Spurs have solid IQ, a great coach and experience. OKC has good IQ, athelticism and explosiveness. It's gonna be a good one and a heck of a series. Lakers better start looking into unloading some folks.

 

I'm going to keep picking against the Thunder and hoping to be pleasantly surprised. The Spurs have the best offense in the NBA, and while some commentators have said their defense has slipped, they don't give up easy baskets the way the Lakers did. The Thunder will need either brilliant performances from Durant, or someone else to step up and score some points, because Westbrook is facing the same system that just destroyed a (hurt) Chris Paul. They can't count on him to just do whatever he wants out there like he was able to against LA and Dallas' old, slow guards. The Spurs are like a swiss army knife they have so many rotations, and unlike OKC, they put 4-5 guys with some idea how to score on the court at a time.

 

I like the Bynum/Pau combo, but if those two guys don't hustle back, it doesn't matter how many offensive rebounds you get, you're still giving away fast break points. Kind of sad to see Ramon Sessions play himself out of a job in that series with OKC. In three road games, Ramon was 3 of 16 with 6 assists and 8 turnovers. He was making Derek Fisher look good. I really thought adding him and Jordan Hill to the anemic Lakers bench would make a difference, but I didn't count on him looking that awful.

 

Here's a crazy stat: Derek Fisher has made the conference finals more than Kobe Bryant. He was on every early Lakers team with Kobe that reached the conference finals, and in addition made it with the Jazz in '07, and now made it again with the Thunder. He's a limited role player and he's a million years old, but he knows what to do to win: play irritatingly dirty defense and hit clutch 3's.

[Unregistered]

<p>As a Celtic fan, I'm looking forward to the big three being over. They've aged too much. Even if they somehow squeak out a championship, I still hope Danny lets the old dogs lay. Rondo diserves a chance to run with a team that can run with him.</p><p> </p><p>

Man, I miss Perkins defensively and as a big man down low. Where did he go again? Oh yeah, thats right. To the best young team in the league, who'll hopefully finish what we can't even start.<img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

Honestly though, I can't root against Duncan. Not even if its Timmy vs Boston. I'll still root for the big man.</p>

[BHK1978]

<p>I really wanted the Celtics to win at least one game in the series. After tonight I highly doubt they will even manage to do that.</p><p> </p><p>

I have a feeling Miami is going to win the whole thing, I don't want them to win the whole thing but I just have a feeling like they will. I always have this impression of LeBron like feels that he is owed an NBA Championship. Maybe that is not the case but that is the way I feel and that is the reason why I do not want him to ever win a championship.</p>

[lazorbeak]

For LeBron to win a ring, he's going to have to get great performances defensively and maybe even offensively from Chalmers, Battier, Bosh/Haslem/whoever. You can't beat the Spurs without excellent team defense (they're the best shooting team in the NBA) and the ability to score more than 100 points per game. As the Thunder loss Tuesday showed, you just can't rely on your "stars" to score 80 points if you don't stop the Spurs from getting easy baskets and hitting 55% of their shots on the way to scoring 120 without overtime. Also, while the Celtics couldn't beat most teams in the league if Rondo has an off night, the Spurs can win even when Duncan or Parker plays poorly because they have far more players who can get points as part of the team dynamic, unlike Miami or Boston, which will have at least 2 and sometimes more players on the court with absolutely no ability to score.

[BHK1978]

I guess I was taught a lesson tonight, never change the channel. I thought that the game was over in the 3rd period so I turned it off. Well I am glad OKC proved me wrong, I just hope they can keep on winning.

[lazorbeak]

Well for once the media can't blame LeBron James for the Heat's meltdown (no pun intended). They stopped getting reliable stops on Durant, and their offense looked awful. The Thunder are giving up open looks from long range, and it's up to the Heat to take advantage of them. Chalmers and Battier did a good job in the first half, but Wade kept trying to get inside, turning open looks into contested shots.

 

And it's all well-and-good that Bosh is feeling more confident in his 3 point shot, but unless he wants to be Matt Bonner, he needs to get to the high post when he's away from the ball and in a position to score/weak side rebound- he needs to do better than 5 boards (0 offensive), especially when he's making Nick Collison look like a beast: the guy had 5 offensive boards by himself!

[matthew222]

I am so happy the season the over so that ESPN will shut up about LeBron

 

Also just want to say that ESPN makes it seem like all the hate will stop on Lebron cause he won a ring but I still really don't like the guy and it all started with his ESPN Special announcing he is going to Miami

 

Also don't forget Bosh ! He is as important as James and Wade

[Jaysin]

I've hated Lebron since he was in high school. He's from my area(about 15 minutes away) and he had been shoved down our throats before he even came close to graduating.

 

I also hate Cavs fans. They're nothing but band wagon fans. No one cares about basketball around here unless they're doing good. At least Browns fans are loyal no matter how they're doing.

[lazorbeak]

I have to say it's surprising that this team that took care of the Spurs in 6 couldn't make it past 5 against Miami. The Heat really did a great job game-planning for the Thunder, using their athletes to turn Harden and Durant into jump shooters. Durant still played great, even if he had to work for everything, but Harden didn't look like the same guy from the San Antonio series. OKC was suckered into playing way too much half court basketball and it cost them.

 

But as good as LeBron was in that series (and he was great), like I said earlier, it came down to big performances from Battier, Chalmers, and Mike Miller, as well as Bosh stepping up his defense and rebounding from that poor effort in game 1. The Thunder usually depend on Harden for that offensive spark, and he was awful.

[JackKnifed72]

Lebron s*** all over Cleveland...

 

The Thunder walked out of Seattle...

 

Hate 'em both, can't say I wanted either team to win sooooo...

 

...when does the NFL start again?