World Championship Wrestling 2002: Rebuilding the Empire

[Hashasheen]

Wow. I mean, just wow. I've been planning my own take on a WCW survives 2001 and I etched a good few things that were similar (recruit some independent stars, recruiting Eddie Guerrero, Horseman return and a show-slot on Fox), but this is a lot more comprehensive than mine. I've been generally just building together a roster and getting some preliminary story-lines and feuds ready. This TL has a lot of potential and it's already so great. Thanks for all the effort.

[tristram]

In respect to the monster effect, it is one of the hardest things to book in my view. The basic premise of pro wrestling is to get people interested in storylines, in characters.. and to do that you have to make certain matches appear that the underdog can win, without necessarily winning, until the big behomoth who is being monster pushed finds a match where the competitor has something a little bit different, and could use the rub to get a massive catapult. With a match like that, the monster doesn't really lose, sure, the streak stops but his image is maintained because who else could have won it? That was basically the synopsis of how I came to the decision to stop Goldberg when I did. I prefer the monster to lose to someone in a genuine manner, the underdog fighting for his life but then showing something extremely special to win it, rather the cheap ending like WCW used with Nash going over Goldberg. The main problem with that was it didn't really add any luster to Nash holding the World Title, which diminished its prestige to a degree, and then they completely fumbled the prestige out of the title a week or two later with 'el finger poke of el doom'.

 

The match that intrigued me the most was Jamie Knoble coming out the Cruiserweight Champion. In fairness, the others really didn't need the rub and unless the title was positioned as floating they may have been carrying it higher up the card thatn necessary. I wonder how Ric Flair defeated Sean O'Haire? See, to me this would be the perfect opportunity to advertise the old 'dirtiest player in the game' shtick. He doesn't necessarily have to go heel, but at the same time a bit of the old Flair 'experience' could leave O'Haire from losing any real overness and position him for a prolonged feud with Flair. Sean O'Haire could definitely use a long feud with a superstar like Flair where, finally, at the end, after every option has been exploited, he goes over clean getting the rub.

 

Just my two cents, awesome work my good man.

[Bigpapa42]

Wow. I mean, just wow. I've been planning my own take on a WCW survives 2001 and I etched a good few things that were similar (recruit some independent stars, recruiting Eddie Guerrero, Horseman return and a show-slot on Fox), but this is a lot more comprehensive than mine. I've been generally just building together a roster and getting some preliminary story-lines and feuds ready. This TL has a lot of potential and it's already so great. Thanks for all the effort.

 

Thanks. Glad you are enjoying. Are you using the 2002 alternate data, or Genadi's 2001 scenario? I've been itching to give the 2001 data a try, but between this and a '97 SWF game I've been playing around with, I just honestly don't have time.

 

In respect to the monster effect, it is one of the hardest things to book in my view. The basic premise of pro wrestling is to get people interested in storylines, in characters.. and to do that you have to make certain matches appear that the underdog can win, without necessarily winning, until the big behomoth who is being monster pushed finds a match where the competitor has something a little bit different, and could use the rub to get a massive catapult. With a match like that, the monster doesn't really lose, sure, the streak stops but his image is maintained because who else could have won it? That was basically the synopsis of how I came to the decision to stop Goldberg when I did. I prefer the monster to lose to someone in a genuine manner, the underdog fighting for his life but then showing something extremely special to win it, rather the cheap ending like WCW used with Nash going over Goldberg. The main problem with that was it didn't really add any luster to Nash holding the World Title, which diminished its prestige to a degree, and then they completely fumbled the prestige out of the title a week or two later with 'el finger poke of el doom'.

 

The match that intrigued me the most was Jamie Knoble coming out the Cruiserweight Champion. In fairness, the others really didn't need the rub and unless the title was positioned as floating they may have been carrying it higher up the card thatn necessary. I wonder how Ric Flair defeated Sean O'Haire? See, to me this would be the perfect opportunity to advertise the old 'dirtiest player in the game' shtick. He doesn't necessarily have to go heel, but at the same time a bit of the old Flair 'experience' could leave O'Haire from losing any real overness and position him for a prolonged feud with Flair. Sean O'Haire could definitely use a long feud with a superstar like Flair where, finally, at the end, after every option has been exploited, he goes over clean getting the rub.

 

Just my two cents, awesome work my good man.

 

Building a monster is definitely tough, in the sense that its an investment that you need to find a way to maximize your return on. Which is not to say that entire build of Goldberg was a waste just because the inevitable first loss was rather, ahem, questionable booking. It just wasn't used as well as it could have and should have been.

 

Another aspect to consider is what type of monster you are building. That affects how they should lose and what it leaves them with. If you have a big powerhouse who is out-wrestled, is it in a way that can be emulated or just the skills of that given opponent. If they are beaten because their opponent is quicker, did they have trouble with every quicker opponent? My intent with Lesnar was to build him into a diverse monster - he's big, athletic, and quick, and he can over power and decimate, or he can mat wrestle, dismantle, and submit opponents. He's not without weaknesses, but it will take a specific skillset and the right circumstances.

 

Knoble had never held the Cruiserweight title up to that point. Given his skills, that was a shame and something I definitely wanted to rectify. AJ Styles will eventually move up out of the cruiserweight division, but he'll stay there for now. I think Styles vs Knoble would make a pretty sweet feud...

 

I would think that Flair would definitely have used his "veteran wiles" to overcome O'Haire. As in, cheating endlessly. Poor O'Haire has been in a bit of a tough situation. I wanted to push him right out of the gates, but his skills really didn't warrant it. If I'm Heyman, I think he takes that into consideration and gives the heavy push to someone else - like Eddie Guerrero. Thankfully, O'Haire has been improving considerably - thanks to some short stints in development and plenty of multi-man tag team matches. So he's in a position now where a push is possible. Which is good, because I have some plans for the big guy. And those plans may include the new Four Horsemen in some way, shape or form.

 

Interesting note... I would have the July recap done and posted already if it wasn't for having to play through the last couple shows of the month. As I've stated (or complained about, depending on your perspective), actually booking through the shows is the slowest aspect to this project... and I am booking quite fast.

[Greg McNeish]

The great dilema of creating an unstoppable monster... How do you then stop what you've shown as unstoppable? How can you end an undefeated streak to really make it pay off? Definitely things I have considered. I'm hoping the payoff to Lesnar's build up will be worthwhile. I have things pretty planned out. For the next two years, for the most part, though obviously with some flexibility.

 

The key, I believe, is not to make the monster invulnerable. Unstoppable is one thing, because that can be moreso just that no one has found the right way to stop him yet as opposed to he can't be stopped. But invulnerable is boring.

 

See, this is where an overview style does have some weakness. I don't always put the detail I could or even intended to. In that rematch, Goldberg put up a helluva fight. It took half an hour and two finishers to put him down, so it would have been a major battle. Putting Lesnar over clean on this one was important, I think, because a tainted or incomplete victory would leave fans wanting another match. Not a bad thing, unless there is no plans for another match for awhile.

 

In a way, its a bit of a puro approach I'm taking with Lesnar. Each match would tell the observant fan a bit more about him and his strengths, but also about his weaknesses. So its becomes a greater story of the champion and his reign. In this bigger overall picture of Lesnar, the clean win over Goldberg here would be important. Goldberg is physical, powerful, and aggressive. Second only to Lesnar in WCW in those regards. That would be the only way that Goldberg could go at the young champion, because its really the only way that Goldberg knows. So after the win here, fans and other wrestlers would know decisively that trying to overpower, be more physical, or more aggressive against Lesnar is not the way to defeat him.

 

This is very remeniscent of Samoa Joe's handling in ROH. Although I'm not a fan of the promotion (too spotty by far), I found the booking of Joe's character, and particularily his title reign, to be very intriguing.

 

As an unstoppable monster, he was bulldozing people, looking invincible. That is, until he got caught by a roll-up, in a non-title match. That put everyone on notice that it was possible to beat this guy, and that he just might be susceptible to roll-ups. From that point on, every small package or school boy had that extra layer of immediacy.

 

Besides that, though, showing a chink in the armor led other people to try to find new avenues of opportunity. CM Punk was in especially interesting case, as he decided that since Samoa Joe is a bigger guy, he wouldn't have the stamina of a smaller dude, like Punk. So, he tried to just weather the storm long enough to tire out the big man, so that he could capitalize. It didn't work, but it showed a great level of cunning strategy from Punk, as well as adding that new layer to Joe, as he proved that he could go the distance.

 

I definitely like that you're taking the same approach with Lesnar. Especially since he's a relatively unknown quantity, it's a terrific device for slowly learning more about him, as each challenger forces him to show a different part of himself, and his ability.

 

I'm quite happy that I have absolutely no idea where you're going with this, but still feel that it's all logically flowing. I'm enjoying the ride.

[Hashasheen]

Thanks. Glad you are enjoying. Are you using the 2002 alternate data, or Genadi's 2001 scenario? I've been itching to give the 2001 data a try, but between this and a '97 SWF game I've been playing around with, I just honestly don't have time.

 

.... Neither actually. I'm not using the computer databases. I'm writing it from scratch without TEW data backing me up, and I'm basing it on real life 2001, which means a whole time put into researching where which wrestlers were, what promotion they were with, their condition at the time, what experience did they have. It's both fun and tiring in my opinion, but I've put together a largely who's who of independent wrestlers to serve as the fresh blood (and being the more hard-working cheaper types that I know are of a good investment for the future) along with a few ex-ECW/WCW wrestlers to provide faces recognizable to the crowds. Between that and researching the affect of a surviving WCW on tertiary promotions like WWA, TNA, TCW and Ring of Honor with all the wrestlers I've hired, it's been an interesting butterfly effect.

[Bigpapa42]

This is very remeniscent of Samoa Joe's handling in ROH. Although I'm not a fan of the promotion (too spotty by far), I found the booking of Joe's character, and particularily his title reign, to be very intriguing.

 

As an unstoppable monster, he was bulldozing people, looking invincible. That is, until he got caught by a roll-up, in a non-title match. That put everyone on notice that it was possible to beat this guy, and that he just might be susceptible to roll-ups. From that point on, every small package or school boy had that extra layer of immediacy.

 

Besides that, though, showing a chink in the armor led other people to try to find new avenues of opportunity. CM Punk was in especially interesting case, as he decided that since Samoa Joe is a bigger guy, he wouldn't have the stamina of a smaller dude, like Punk. So, he tried to just weather the storm long enough to tire out the big man, so that he could capitalize. It didn't work, but it showed a great level of cunning strategy from Punk, as well as adding that new layer to Joe, as he proved that he could go the distance.

 

I definitely like that you're taking the same approach with Lesnar. Especially since he's a relatively unknown quantity, it's a terrific device for slowly learning more about him, as each challenger forces him to show a different part of himself, and his ability.

 

I'm quite happy that I have absolutely no idea where you're going with this, but still feel that it's all logically flowing. I'm enjoying the ride.

 

Glad you saw the connection to ROH's push of Samoa Joe, because that was somewhere I was stealing from. I didn't watch ROH at the time but I've gone back and watched a lot of Joe's ROH stuff. That kind of gradual character layering is white I was going for.

 

I'm glad that its not obvious where I'm going with things. One of the things I really love about this approach is that I could get through the next six months of the game in about a month real time, whereas doing show-by-show for that long would take months.

 

.... Neither actually. I'm not using the computer databases. I'm writing it from scratch without TEW data backing me up, and I'm basing it on real life 2001, which means a whole time put into researching where which wrestlers were, what promotion they were with, their condition at the time, what experience did they have. It's both fun and tiring in my opinion, but I've put together a largely who's who of independent wrestlers to serve as the fresh blood (and being the more hard-working cheaper types that I know are of a good investment for the future) along with a few ex-ECW/WCW wrestlers to provide faces recognizable to the crowds. Between that and researching the affect of a surviving WCW on tertiary promotions like WWA, TNA, TCW and Ring of Honor with all the wrestlers I've hired, it's been an interesting butterfly effect.

 

Its a tough approach, but that gives you even more creative freedom. I like the structure that the game gives you, but it can also be limiting in many ways. The research can be both fun and monotonous, I find - I did a decent bit of research myself before starting up. Not tons, but some. Since I didn't watch WCW that much back in the day, I wanted to get a show-by-show feel for how they were doing things in the last few years. The effects of a surviving WCW is definitely one of the intriguing aspects...

[tristram]

This is very remeniscent of Samoa Joe's handling in ROH. Although I'm not a fan of the promotion (too spotty by far), I found the booking of Joe's character, and particularily his title reign, to be very intriguing.

 

As an unstoppable monster, he was bulldozing people, looking invincible. That is, until he got caught by a roll-up, in a non-title match. That put everyone on notice that it was possible to beat this guy, and that he just might be susceptible to roll-ups. From that point on, every small package or school boy had that extra layer of immediacy.

 

Besides that, though, showing a chink in the armor led other people to try to find new avenues of opportunity. CM Punk was in especially interesting case, as he decided that since Samoa Joe is a bigger guy, he wouldn't have the stamina of a smaller dude, like Punk. So, he tried to just weather the storm long enough to tire out the big man, so that he could capitalize. It didn't work, but it showed a great level of cunning strategy from Punk, as well as adding that new layer to Joe, as he proved that he could go the distance.

 

I definitely like that you're taking the same approach with Lesnar. Especially since he's a relatively unknown quantity, it's a terrific device for slowly learning more about him, as each challenger forces him to show a different part of himself, and his ability.

 

I'm quite happy that I have absolutely no idea where you're going with this, but still feel that it's all logically flowing. I'm enjoying the ride.

 

I haven't really seen any ROH, but that sounds like good booking for mine. It actually gives the roll up a very valuable, tactical purpose.

 

The two best 'winners' to stop the monster that I have seen were both in WCW. Both against the Giant. One against a real cerebral assassin in DDP

 

- which involved a Diamond Cutter off the top rope while the Giant positioned him for a Super-Choke-Slam

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7an7OF9veUI - Sting Super-Scorpion Death Drop

 

I like what you're saying Greg, being able to find that hard to find way of stopping the monster makes the monster storyline extremely difficult to book, but the most rewarding match ender.

 

===========

 

BP, the ease of your writing style has given this a very favourable side-spot, in that it is essentially very easy to discuss professional wrestling moments and discussing those moments against your 'moves'. Cudos for that.

[Hashasheen]

Its a tough approach, but that gives you even more creative freedom. I like the structure that the game gives you, but it can also be limiting in many ways. The research can be both fun and monotonous, I find - I did a decent bit of research myself before starting up. Not tons, but some. Since I didn't watch WCW that much back in the day, I wanted to get a show-by-show feel for how they were doing things in the last few years. The effects of a surviving WCW is definitely one of the intriguing aspects...

 

I actually only started watching WCW videos this year, after hearing so much about them (good and bad) on the 'webs. A lot of 2000 and 2001 was pretty salvagable, and even though they wouldn't have beaten WWF any time soon, they would have easily remained second and given the WWE a challenge at times.

 

Also, why isn't WCW have the NWA Wildside as their developmental? It's been that way since 2000 IRL, and before that National Championship Wrestling? Is it a quirk of the scenario?

 

Anyway, feel free to hit me up on facts or ideas if you ever feel like it. You've already given me some inspiration yourself.

[Bigpapa42]

BP, the ease of your writing style has given this a very favourable side-spot, in that it is essentially very easy to discuss professional wrestling moments and discussing those moments against your 'moves'. Cudos for that.

 

I'm all for it.

 

I actually only started watching WCW videos this year, after hearing so much about them (good and bad) on the 'webs. A lot of 2000 and 2001 was pretty salvagable, and even though they wouldn't have beaten WWF any time soon, they would have easily remained second and given the WWE a challenge at times.

 

Also, why isn't WCW have the NWA Wildside as their developmental? It's been that way since 2000 IRL, and before that National Championship Wrestling? Is it a quirk of the scenario?

 

Anyway, feel free to hit me up on facts or ideas if you ever feel like it. You've already given me some inspiration yourself.

 

Yeah, I didn't watch so much WCW back in the day either. I think they were "savable" at pretty much any point, right up to the end. There was still a fanbase there. Shrinking and increasingly jaded, but still people who would put time and money toward the promotion, right up to the end. The more I go back and watch and read about those last couple of years, the more it just makes me shake my head.

 

WCW starts the scenario without a development territory. While it could possibly be an oversight by Genadi, I'm guessing that its intentional. After WCW is bought out by Bischoff, they are tight for money and they would've dropped in size to cult (in game terms). They really just recover in later 2001 or early 2002. They really would've had little need for a child promotion, nor would the costs associated have been a good idea. For reasons I'll detail later, I chose to have a new developmental promotion started up rather than re-establishing the Wildside connection.

 

And thanks for the offer.

[juggaloninjalee]

I was one of those suckers who continued to buy WCW garbage up til the end.

[Bigpapa42]

World Championship Wrestling

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k235/Bigpapa42_2006/WCW/Logos/Small/WCWSmall.jpg

 

July 2002

 

As the summer of 2002 heated up in July, so did World Championship Wrestling. The were two major happenings promised for the month - the slow formation of a new vision of The Four Horsemen would be completed, and Brock Lesnar would face his final test as WCW World Heavyweight champion when he faced a legend in Shawn Michaels.

 

Lesnar versus The Heartbreak Kid was announced as the main event for the Bash at the Beach pay per view. While the match was intriguing, not everyone was happy. There was a segment of fans who didn't seem pleased to see Michaels in WCW and who certainly were not happy to see him getting a world title shot just two months after his debut. It was this segment of fans who had seen their own reservations voiced by Ric Flair when he cut his great face-to-face promo with Michaels the month prior. Like Flair, these fans had to be won over.

 

The first Nitro of July featured a great deal of speculation by the commentators about who might be given the spot as the fourth Horsemen. At the end of the show, Flair came out with Storm, Awesome, Anderson, and Kiebler. "The Nature Boy" cut another one of his trademark passion-filled promos as he talked about the Horsemen, then he invited his choice for the final member of the new group to come out.... Goldberg. The fans roared as he made his way down to the ring. The big man did not look particularly impressed. Flair explained to both Goldberg and the fans why he was the clear "right" choice - because just like Flair and the rest of the new Horsemen, Goldberg truly loved WCW. He wanted to protect it. After a career of forging a hard path alone, it was time to see the strength that could be found in the number four. Join the Horsemen, Flair offered. After a long hard stare, Goldberg gave his answer.... No. He walked out of the ring and out of the arena, the show closing on the silence of a stunned arena and incomplete Horsemen.

 

Flair had to find a fourth member, and soon. He was told by Commissioner The Cat that the Four Horsemen would face Kronik, Sean O'Haire, and Scott Steiner at the pay per view. Torrie Wilson's group of big men continued their, err... alliance with Heyman's Dangerous Alliance, and both groups seemed intent to crush Flair's new Horsemen under heel. Fans speculated whether Arn Anderson might be coming out of retirement to be the fourth, but this was not possible due to "The Enforcer's" physical condition. Booker T once again offered his services to Flair, but "The Nature Boy" again turned down the former world champion, telling him that he "still has a plan, woo!"

 

While the new Horsemen, Booker T, and even Diamond Dallas Page seemed loathe to trust Shawn Michaels, the "newer generation" of WCW stars were willing to. "The Heartbreak Kid" worked plenty of tag action as he got rid of any remaining ring rust, teaming with the likes of Eddie Guerrero, AJ Styles, and Rey Mysterio Jr. There was little doubt remaining that Michaels could still go in the ring.

 

The second annual W1 "King of the Cruisers" tournament was building toward its finale at Bash at the Beach. Even without every match of the entire 16-man tournament being aired, it was given plenty of attention and hype. The early rounds of the tournament gave a boost to both AJ Styles and Low Ki. While Styles was a former Cruiserweight champion, he still impressed many as he notched wins over Elix Skipper and Billy Kidman before losing to reigning Cruiserweight champion Jamie Knoble in the semi final. Low Ki had been seen on ECW only a few times before he took a surprise win over Chavo Guerrero in the opening round, before losing to Sabu in the second round in a hard fought and stiff battle. The semi final between Sabu and Rey Mysterio was a great back and forth affair, with both men finding endless innovative offense before Mysterio scored a pinfall win. It was a battle that left fans wanting more. It set up another battle between two of the top cruiserweights in WCW, Rey Mysterio Jr and Jamie Knoble.

 

Bash at the Bash, while technically not as prestigious as Starrcade or the Great American Bash on the hierarchy of WCW's annual events, has been host to some big moments for the promotion. Most notably, the 1996 heel turn of Hulk Hogan which formed the New World Order. That history had some fans speculating, as fans tend to, that something big was in store for the Bash in 2002. Some thought it would be a giant swerve with the Horsemen, while others insisted that Shawn Michaels was going to defeat Lesnar for the WCW World Heavyweight championship. There were also rumors of someone “big” from the WWE joining WCW.

 

What viewers did get was another very good night of wrestling. While not every match was top-caliber, the "lesser" matches were at least kept short so they did not sap the energy from the active crowd. The opener was the final of the W1 "King of the Cruisers" tournament, pitting WCW Cruiserweight champion Jamie Knoble against 7-time Cruiserweight champion and defending W1 winner Rey Mysterio Jr. In an opener that many would compare to the Pillman-Lyger classic that opened SuperBrawl 1992, Mysterio triumphed after a great 20-minute battle. Chris Kanyon took just 8 minutes to defeat Buff Bagwell and retain his US title. The Jung Dragons took on both 3-Count and The Featured Attraction a fun match to defend the Cruiserweight Tag Team belts. Booker T took a solid win over Hugh Morrus. Sting didn't take much time to defeat his former friend and nemesis Lex Luger in a match that the fans clearly didn't care much about. The crowd stayed interested, as the Four Horsemen four-way was up next. And that meant the fourth member of the new Horsemen would be introduced. And that fourth Horsemen turned out to be... Eddie Guerrero.

 

With the addition of some "Latino Heat", the new Horsemen faced a combination of the Dangerous Alliance and Kronik. The new Horsemen foursome proved their quality as they downed the heel quartet. The introduction of Guerrero into the group got a pretty good pop, and he fit right in, especially with Lance Storm. In the semi main event, Rob Van Dam scored an unexpected upset win over Goldberg, thanks to interference from Paul Heyman. Finally, it was time for the much-anticipated main event.

 

The main event was everything that fans hoped for. It was a back-and-forth battle, with both champion and challenger coming out looking fantastic. Lesnar controlled the opening, using his power and quickness, but he couldn't inflict much damage on Michaels, who was clearly feeling out and testing the huge champion. After about twenty minutes, the challenger looked to be in some trouble as the champion launched some of his power offense. HBK had the crowd roaring as he battled back, sending Lesnar reeling with his trademark Sweet Chin Music finisher that didn't quite connect flush. Lesnar rolled out of the ring to get some advice from Heyman, but Michaels hit him with a suicide dive. The challengers plan became apparent. He wasn't just trying to exhaust the huge champion – other had tried that before. He wasn't trying to just use his quickness against the champion – Eddie Guerrero had tried that. Michaels was doing both of those, but also being unpredictable in his offense. Every time Lesnar tried to take a breather outside the ring, Michaels was there with something – a baseball slide, a springboard dive, and finally a moonsault. The relentless and unpredictable approach of “The Heartbreak Kid” had Lesnar in trouble. It eventually cost the challenger, as he missed a springboard dive when Heyman pushed Lesnar aside, with Michaels catching his ribs on the security barrier. The champion took over again, and looked to be heading toward the win, but Michaels skinned the cat and hit a slingshot crossbody, then he went to the top turnbuckle for his trademark diving elbow drop... But Lesnar popped to his feet and caught HBK onto his shoulders, smashing him right into a huge F5. The three count was inevitable. After nearly forty minutes, Brock Lesnar had passed another test. The relief shown by both Lesnar and Heyman showed just how much of a challenge it had been. The image of an emotional Shawn Michaels slumped on his knees in the center of the WCW, battered and broken and defeated, would become iconic.

 

Even without any huge swerves (though some saw the addition of Guerrero as a Horsemen as one), the Bash was a success. It obviously left the question of who could possibly challenge Brock Lesnar... a question which would be answered soon enough.

 

In the fallout from the pay per view, Michaels cut a passionate promo on the following Nitro. He promised he would not given up his pursuit of the WCW World Heavyweight championship. “The Heartbreak Kid” was interrupted by Rob Van Dam, who came out sans his Dangerous Alliance brethren. While some hoped RVD would proclaim that he too wanted a shot at Lesnar's title, he instead told Michaels that they had unfinished business. There was also some fallout from the addition of Eddie Guerrero to the Four Horsemen. There were some fans who felt Guerrero didn't fit as a Horsemen, and that sentiment was shared by Chavo Guerrero, who apparently felt betrayed by his uncle. Booker T also didn't take being overlooked by Ric Flair that well.

 

The addition of the Bagwell-Kanyon and Sting-Luger matches to the pay per view were both rather last-minute. It seemed questionable booking, as neither were built up with any real feuds. There were reports that it was a “last chance to impress” for the duo by Paul Heyman, who had grown tired of the complaining of the two falling stars. Given those two matches were amongst the worst on the card, despite quality opponents, it seems unlikely that Bagwell and Luger managed to impress Heyman.

 

WCW faced some criticism by observers for the W1 tournament victory by Rey Mysterio Jr. The masked luchadore had long been atop the WCW cruiserweight division – or as Dusty Rhodes tended to call them, “the C-class”, since his southern drawl made “cruiserweights” a bit tough. A win by Knoble would have put him on the same level as Mysterio, especially since Knoble had won the Cruiserweight title without actually pinning Mysterio. The win by Rey was seen as affirmation that he was a step above the rest of the division. As it would turn out, that was the intent. The second consecutive tournament win by Mysterio turned out to be his swan song in the WCW cruiserweight division. On the final Nitro of the month, he defeated Kanyon for the United States championship.

 

On ECW Warfare, the “proving ground” continued to take shape. Raven continued to hold the ECW Championship, finding a way past each opponent. The self proclaimed “Icon of ECW” cut scathing promos week after week, ripping on Foley's new vision of ECW and its role as the “proving ground” for WCW. Most weeks, Foley had a great promo of his own, and occasionally they went back and forth. It made for compelling television and fans were tuning in. Ironically, Raven helped the developmental process he professed to hate when he introduced his new flock, which he dubbed the Dark Carnival. The first two members introduced by the ECW champion were “The Angel” Christopher Daniels and “Sterling” James Keenan. On the final show of the month, the team of Samoa Joe and Low Ki, dubbed Team No Fear, surprised everyone when they downed Alpha for the ECW Tag Team championships. The same show also featured an announcement from Mick Foley – that new WCW US champion Rey Mysterio Jr. would be on ECW the following month for a rematch of the W1 tournament match against Sabu.

 

When July ended, there was a new Four Horsemen running wild and the dominance of WCW World Heavyweight championship Brock Lesnar was without question. As the summer continued on, the name of the New Blood Rising pay per view in August would once again prove prophetic, though not in a way anyone would have predicted.

 

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k235/Bigpapa42_2006/WCW/PPV/WCW/WCWBashattheBeach.jpg

WCW Bash at the Beach 2002

 

Rey Mysterio Jr. d. Jamie Knoble in the Final of the WCW W1 “King of the Cruisers” Tournament

 

Kanyon d. Buff Bagwell for the WCW United States Championship

 

The Jung Dragons © d. 3 Count & The Featured Attraction for the WCW Cruiserweight Tag Team Championships

 

Booker T d. Hugh Morrus

 

Sting d. Lex Luger

 

The Four Horsemen d. Scott Steiner, Sean O'Haire & Kronik

 

Rob Van Dam d. Goldberg

 

Brock Lesnar © d. Shawn Michaels for the WCW World Heavyweight Championship

[jstarr187]

HBK-Lesnar was a great move, as both guys needed the match to prove themselves. HBK needed to earn his spot in WCW, Lesnar needed to prove he could beat Shawn Michaels. Smart booking.

 

Scratching my head over Eddie in the Horsemen, but then, I'm really, really picky about who 'fits' in that group. But hey, we're the internet wrestling community, and you've written something that we care enough about to bitch and argue about. Well done!

[juggaloninjalee]

Yeah, Eddie Guerrero in the Horseman seems strange to me. The HBK - Lesnar match came off much better than I expected. Goldberg losing to RVD even with Heymans help is a big let down.

 

I am wondering who will be challenging Brock Lesnar next month. Goldberg lost so shouldn't be able to. RVD could challenge and cause issues in the D.A. but I don't think that is going to happen yet. Sting did beat Luger so he could challenge. Maybe a Ric Flair for the Horsemen could challenge.

 

Just a very interesting situation you have at the top of the card. It looks like there is Brock Lesnar right now and a big gap before you see a #1 contender.

 

Keep up the great work! Another interesting month that is shaping up to lead to another great month.

[Bigpapa42]

HBK-Lesnar was a great move, as both guys needed the match to prove themselves. HBK needed to earn his spot in WCW, Lesnar needed to prove he could beat Shawn Michaels. Smart booking.

 

Scratching my head over Eddie in the Horsemen, but then, I'm really, really picky about who 'fits' in that group. But hey, we're the internet wrestling community, and you've written something that we care enough about to bitch and argue about. Well done!

 

I put more detail into HBK-Lesnar than I really intended to, because I felt it was an important match in the evolution of "The Prototype". Certain matches, I find fairly easy to "envision"... and this one was one of them...

 

Ah, Eddie the Horseman... I really want to explain my choice, as I put a lot of thought into the decision. Too much, probably. I was actually very close to going with a different choice, but had my mind changed just before I booked the PPV. The next editorial will be something of an explanation, so I'll try to hold off. I will say that when I looked at what elements were key for membership back in the day, then looked hard to my WCW roster to see who really had those elements... I had to admit that Eddie Guerrero had those elements moreso than anyone else.

[FlameSnoopy]

Just pure awesomeness, though I have to join with the duo, Eddie and The Horsemen seem a bit strange at first, but once you imagine it, it seems okay.. As long as Eddie screws everyone and wins the World title! ..oh wait

[Hashasheen]

Yeah, I didn't watch so much WCW back in the day either. I think they were "savable" at pretty much any point, right up to the end. There was still a fanbase there. Shrinking and increasingly jaded, but still people who would put time and money toward the promotion, right up to the end. The more I go back and watch and read about those last couple of years, the more it just makes me shake my head.

 

WCW starts the scenario without a development territory. While it could possibly be an oversight by Genadi, I'm guessing that its intentional. After WCW is bought out by Bischoff, they are tight for money and they would've dropped in size to cult (in game terms). They really just recover in later 2001 or early 2002. They really would've had little need for a child promotion, nor would the costs associated have been a good idea. For reasons I'll detail later, I chose to have a new developmental promotion started up rather than re-establishing the Wildside connection.

 

And thanks for the offer.

 

I see. Now on to the update!

 

Goldberg says no. I'm assuming that it'll be mentioned later as to why, but it does strike a nice tone and gives him back some of his loner badass cred.

 

Eddie Guerrero is in the Horseman? Not a bad choice, just seems a little off. I personally hoped C.W Anderson would have been brought in with Arn personally managing him.

 

Shawn versus Brock perfectly set up Lesnar's rising star, and calmed the fears of anyone about Michaels in WCW.

 

Rey Rey US Champ? Nice. Good to see some of the luchas go up in the ranks. The Cruisers has a lot of wrestlers already, and some of the more qualified should go up.

[Bigpapa42]

I love that the Eddie Guerrero decision is generating some debate and discussion. I expected that, and hopeed for it. Its a bit funny - on the other site where I post this, they loved the induction of Eddie but questioned the match length of the Lesnar-HBK main event.

 

Yeah, Eddie Guerrero in the Horseman seems strange to me. The HBK - Lesnar match came off much better than I expected. Goldberg losing to RVD even with Heymans help is a big let down.

 

I am wondering who will be challenging Brock Lesnar next month. Goldberg lost so shouldn't be able to. RVD could challenge and cause issues in the D.A. but I don't think that is going to happen yet. Sting did beat Luger so he could challenge. Maybe a Ric Flair for the Horsemen could challenge.

 

Just a very interesting situation you have at the top of the card. It looks like there is Brock Lesnar right now and a big gap before you see a #1 contender.

 

Keep up the great work! Another interesting month that is shaping up to lead to another great month.

 

Thanks!

 

Goldberg losing to RVD was definitely an upset, but one done with some specific reasons. And the next challenger is going to be an interesting choice, I think. There definitely looks to be a gap there, as Lesnar has passed his final test. Don't worry - I have not booked myself into a corner, unless something falls through in the game.

 

Just pure awesomeness, though I have to join with the duo, Eddie and The Horsemen seem a bit strange at first, but once you imagine it, it seems okay.. As long as Eddie screws everyone and wins the World title! ..oh wait

 

Once again, I'll bite my tongue on an explanation of Eddie the Horseman.

 

Guerrero as a world champion in WCW is a definite possibility at some point. He's got the skills, the consistency, the entertainment value, and now he has the backup. It puts him in a decent position to be the guy to knock off Lesnar...

 

I see. Now on to the update!

 

Goldberg says no. I'm assuming that it'll be mentioned later as to why, but it does strike a nice tone and gives him back some of his loner badass cred.

 

Eddie Guerrero is in the Horseman? Not a bad choice, just seems a little off. I personally hoped C.W Anderson would have been brought in with Arn personally managing him.

 

Shawn versus Brock perfectly set up Lesnar's rising star, and calmed the fears of anyone about Michaels in WCW.

 

Rey Rey US Champ? Nice. Good to see some of the luchas go up in the ranks. The Cruisers has a lot of wrestlers already, and some of the more qualified should go up.

 

Yup, the Goldberg saying no to Flair was presented as such because it will be explained, and be of a bit of importance, later.

 

C.W. Anderson actually did get considered. I love historical connections and the "Anderson clan" connection is a fun one. The singular problem is that he is simply not good enough in the game. I could have edited - heavily - but that felt far too cheap. Now, should he improve down the road, that opens some doors....

 

Mysterio taking the US title was done with a bit of the same intent as Guerrero as a Horsemen - to show what possibilites are open in the "new WCW". Talent trumps all.

[tristram]

Hmmmm... yes the Guerrero move is definitely interesting. I kind of see Eddie Guerrero as more of a Free-Bird than a Horsemen. Simply because his gimmick and persona were a bit more... out there? You know, a bit more vibrant, a bit more diverse, at times a bit more cheeky and sinister. The Horsemen tended to be fairly narrow in their breadth of entertainment diversity, which was well complimented by Ric Flair's excessive entertainment diversity. Awesome and Storm for that reason in terms of their characters personas are absolutely perfect for the Horsemen.

 

Eddie could though be the 'lucifer' within the pack. They could try to stymie him and Eddie could rebel against this. The internal politics of a stable to me are just about as important, if not more important than the feuding opponents they have. It's kind of like Sherlock Holmes to me in that respect, you know, Holmes and Watson are astute together, and they generally get along, but there's parts of Holmes' audacious tunnel-vision to detective experimentation that drives Watson a little mad... just when it teases to cross that border. Aside from the start up of the nWo, the most interesting time for me was when the Wolfpack split from the nWo, it was managed better to unravel the entire organisation it would have been perfect. Similarly, one of the most interesting times in the long and prolific career of the Four Horsemen was when Sting and Ric Flair feuded and they cut Sting from the Horsemen in a vicious promo followed by an assault. Sting had been dearly loyal, but had grown too good for their liking. This could be Eddie's role. So in that essence , I certainly don't disagree with Eddie as a Horsemen, it gives multiple storylines including obviously Chavo, Goldberg et al and then maybe a springboard to the top and perhaps off-shoot feuds internally with Awesome, STorm and Flair, I'll just be interested to see if he can be de-Freebirded and up-Horsemened. I used the Freebirds not because Eddie was one, but perhaps his vibrancy would make him a legitimate one if they were still an option.

 

Speaking of Sting, I wonder what a man like Sting would start to think about Eddie's role. I say this because obviously Sting has an enormous history with the Horsemen, which WCW neglected to portray at times beyond say '95. I for one can see Sting getting involved.

 

The Goldberg concept... loved it. It nearly mirrored another fabled Horsemen moment when Curt Hennig was asked for membership, but he declined twice from memory, before finally taking it up, getting injured at the infamous Fall Brawl '97 PPV backstage, before against all odds coming to the ring with his arm in a brace. They could have gone one of two ways, play up Curt's amazing courage, or turn him heel. They went the latter, and the blood stained image of Flair's head being savagely slammed by the door to War-Games was one of the most endearing images of WCW in my book.

 

I'm a very sad panda that Kanyon lost Kanyon is el-demi-god in my books I must say, I would have no objections if he reprized the Diamond Dallas Kanyon role delivering Drive-By-Kanyon-Kutters everywhere

[Hashasheen]

Yup, the Goldberg saying no to Flair was presented as such because it will be explained, and be of a bit of importance, later.

Knew it.

 

C.W. Anderson actually did get considered. I love historical connections and the "Anderson clan" connection is a fun one. The singular problem is that he is simply not good enough in the game. I could have edited - heavily - but that felt far too cheap. Now, should he improve down the road, that opens some doors....

Huh. I always thought he had the skills for at least mid-card... Anyway, my plan for him in my WCW storyline is to debut a few months earlier than any reformation of the Horseman so that he gets TV time and focus before joining the Horseman as a stand-in for Arn and Ole. Arn would of course be his manager.

 

Mysterio taking the US title was done with a bit of the same intent as Guerrero as a Horsemen - to show what possibilites are open in the "new WCW". Talent trumps all.

Mind posting a list of all the titles and their holders?

[mad5226]

I liked the addition of Eddie, he should be a very deadly force with some backup. The HBK match had great detail and sounded like a hell of a match. I'm anxious to see how things plan out from here on

[Bigpapa42]

Hmmmm... yes the Guerrero move is definitely interesting. I kind of see Eddie Guerrero as more of a Free-Bird than a Horsemen. Simply because his gimmick and persona were a bit more... out there? You know, a bit more vibrant, a bit more diverse, at times a bit more cheeky and sinister. The Horsemen tended to be fairly narrow in their breadth of entertainment diversity, which was well complimented by Ric Flair's excessive entertainment diversity. Awesome and Storm for that reason in terms of their characters personas are absolutely perfect for the Horsemen.

 

Eddie could though be the 'lucifer' within the pack. They could try to stymie him and Eddie could rebel against this. The internal politics of a stable to me are just about as important, if not more important than the feuding opponents they have. It's kind of like Sherlock Holmes to me in that respect, you know, Holmes and Watson are astute together, and they generally get along, but there's parts of Holmes' audacious tunnel-vision to detective experimentation that drives Watson a little mad... just when it teases to cross that border. Aside from the start up of the nWo, the most interesting time for me was when the Wolfpack split from the nWo, it was managed better to unravel the entire organisation it would have been perfect. Similarly, one of the most interesting times in the long and prolific career of the Four Horsemen was when Sting and Ric Flair feuded and they cut Sting from the Horsemen in a vicious promo followed by an assault. Sting had been dearly loyal, but had grown too good for their liking. This could be Eddie's role. So in that essence , I certainly don't disagree with Eddie as a Horsemen, it gives multiple storylines including obviously Chavo, Goldberg et al and then maybe a springboard to the top and perhaps off-shoot feuds internally with Awesome, STorm and Flair, I'll just be interested to see if he can be de-Freebirded and up-Horsemened. I used the Freebirds not because Eddie was one, but perhaps his vibrancy would make him a legitimate one if they were still an option.

 

Speaking of Sting, I wonder what a man like Sting would start to think about Eddie's role. I say this because obviously Sting has an enormous history with the Horsemen, which WCW neglected to portray at times beyond say '95. I for one can see Sting getting involved.

 

The Goldberg concept... loved it. It nearly mirrored another fabled Horsemen moment when Curt Hennig was asked for membership, but he declined twice from memory, before finally taking it up, getting injured at the infamous Fall Brawl '97 PPV backstage, before against all odds coming to the ring with his arm in a brace. They could have gone one of two ways, play up Curt's amazing courage, or turn him heel. They went the latter, and the blood stained image of Flair's head being savagely slammed by the door to War-Games was one of the most endearing images of WCW in my book.

 

I'm a very sad panda that Kanyon lost Kanyon is el-demi-god in my books I must say, I would have no objections if he reprized the Diamond Dallas Kanyon role delivering Drive-By-Kanyon-Kutters everywhere

 

And BAM, Tristram hits the nail on the head.

 

Vibrant. Its a perfect way to describe Eddie Guerrero. And Ric Flair. And therein lies the solution.

 

Flair has really always been the one guy I perceived to be irreplacable in the Horsemen. He is the one who breathes life into it. Yeah, Arn was always there with the great promos and the serious demeanor - the glue, in a way - but Flair is the guy that makes it really work. Now consider that Flair is 53 in the data and I have no clue how much longer he will keep working. Maybe he keeps going til 2008, like he actually did. Maybe he's done before Christmas '02. Once he does retire, he would work great as a manager. But would Flair in a manager role still add the same vibrancy to the Horsemen that he does as an active competitor?

 

This begs the question - how do you replace "The Nature Boy"? Well, you don't. Not really. But you can find someone who brings some of the same elements that he does. The talent, the entertainment value, the arrogance, the dirty tricks, and the overall vibrancy... Now, you could try to find someone to try to take on the role of Nature Boy, but I think like AJ Styles in TNA, it would fail. Its a cheap knockoff. So you find someone who already has those elements yet has their own character, so its not just a cheap facimile. I really find only two that "feel" right... Chris Jerico and Eddie Guerrero.

 

And therein is the basic logic that lead me to pick Guerrero.

 

Sting will have a role. Indeed he will. Given his history, he even got some consideration. The problem becomes that its not really moving the Horsemen forward to add a 43-year old icon. And this new Horsemen is definitely about moving forward, which is a big part of why Storm and Awesome seemed right.

 

I want to say more on Goldberg at the moment, but I'm alreayd saying too much as it is, so I'll hold off.

 

Knew you'd be disappointed by Kanyon, so I apologize. Just know that he's not going to disappear or get dumped down the card.

 

Huh. I always thought he had the skills for at least mid-card... Anyway, my plan for him in my WCW storyline is to debut a few months earlier than any reformation of the Horseman so that he gets TV time and focus before joining the Horseman as a stand-in for Arn and Ole. Arn would of course be his manager.

 

Mind posting a list of all the titles and their holders?

 

I would definitely like to make use of CW, so I am hoping he pans out. But at his starting level, he would be something of a liability for me. I am not intimately familar with his work from that era, so its possible Genadi has underrted him a bit, but Genadi is quite good in that regard. If CW develops as I hope, I'll have some options to play with down the road. If he doesn't, it disappoints, but its not a legit connection, so its not heart-breaking.

 

As for the champions, the front page of this thread is kept up to date in that regard. The champions in other promotions might need updating, but I try to keep the WCW/ECW list up to date. I realize that an overview formation like this can make keeping track tough.

 

I liked the addition of Eddie, he should be a very deadly force with some backup. The HBK match had great detail and sounded like a hell of a match. I'm anxious to see how things plan out from here on

 

Thanks. The next few months should be fun, if they play out as I have planned.

[Phantom Stranger]

Here's my thoughts on this one.

 

Tully Blanchard "was a little smaller than the average... and that meant I had to work a little harder."

 

Tully understood that "it's about making them yell the loudest for the longest."

 

Tully was willing to play heel, but you could see his point.

 

He could switch between in-ring flash and flare and serious damage in seconds, without either seeming forced.

 

He could cut good promos as well, and could get you to love him or hate him.

 

"If you left the arena thinking boy, Tully Blanchard was fun to watch tonight, then I accomplished my goal."

 

You can replace 'Tully' with Eddie and Blanchard with Guerrero and that set of statements is still true.

 

Anyone really wanna claim Tully Blanchard didn't fit the Horsemen?

[tristram]

I like it BP, I like it.

 

I don't quite agree with that analogy, Phantom. I know in ring they're similar in many degrees that they can go from flashy to sadistic quickly. But their style out of the ring seemed very different to me. Tully was more of a straight shooter in that sense. Eddie is sinister and cunning.

 

All in all, I agree with the decision to put Eddie into the Horsemen. Because it brings about so many different potential storylines. He also is a potential plant to internal devastation, and he can learn from Flair. The storyline I'm looking forward to in all actualities is how the Horsemen deal with Bill Goldberg for turning them down. It's a massive thing in pro wrasslin to turn down the Horsemen, and this I want to see played out big-time.

 

By the way BP, I absolutely loved how HBK-Lesnar went. It makes perfect sense. I can only imagine that Brock's stats are improving massively working alongside such great wrestlers. The one story I would love to see a bit more of now is RVD-Flair. I must say, that particular feud you had going was my favourite moment in this so far.

 

My favourite ever writer on these boards was keefmoon. Keefy had an enormous ability to make you think twice before you made any bold predictions, because he had that Agatha Christie-ish ability to leave you thinking... this appears logical... that appears logical... so does that... that one could happen also... what about that person, surely they're a chance here... All of a sudden with keefy's writing you felt obliged to read through even minute sentence for hints. Similarly with what you are doing here, I love being able to come in and here and spitball different ideas, and the only reason I can do so is there are legitimately I reckon 100s of different springboard storylines over the next 2-3 years with how you lay the foundations, and much like the very best bookers and certainly not the ones who book the WWE and TNA shows that clog up our TV sets, you have the ability to go back in time, look for the political associations, the emotions, the resentments, the conflicts that could be brewing for a very long period and make use of it. And the key with that is that while there are a lot of options right now for Eddie, you can filter all of them through over a period of time.

 

Great work indeed.

[mikemelling]

And therein lies the problem with todays wrestling programs. Because the writers and workers and bookers all know that we as fans know it's a work, they don't try as hard to make us forget. They ignore links and facts and histories because "It's fine, they know it's all fake anyway..."

 

That's what gets under my skin... I know House is fake but it doesn't mean they just ignore bold plot points because everyone knows its fake. The best TV and films allow you to suspend your disbelief for entertainments sake. Who has ever watched Goodfellas and thought "Didn't that annoying little mafia guy once rob McCaully Culkins house?" No... We believe they're different people, and that in turn is because the movies they're in allow us to suspend our disbelief.

 

WWE TV is now more full of running jokes than rolling narative. Edge and Jericho are now buddy buddy despite the fact that Edge wanted to end Jericho's career when he came back at the rumble. Jack Swagger was a jobber on Raw for 8 months, then the World Champion on Smackdown?

 

The frustration is that no-one seems to see (in the WWE that is) that the consistant storylines and changes are what are most popular. The Straight Edge Society, The Nexus, The Undertaker/HBK fued, Randy Orton's face turn. The less consistant, strange, off the wall stories seem to fail. Undertaker in a vegatitive State, John Cena (as a gimmick/storyline) etc.

 

This writing WOULD have saved WCW even if some of the events that have lead up to weren't feasible at the time. This is why the IWC get so pissy with the big companies. We're not asking them to only book guys we all like, we're asking for them to book smarter and give people who get the pops a chance. We're all wrestling fans like those who own these companies purpose to be.

 

I've got to say, if this had happened in real life, the WWE would have had A LOT to worry about. I honestly hope this is being reflected in game.

[totti]

Have to say that when I first read Guerrero was the fourth horseman that I was a little skeptical over it. I was struggling to see it, but I remember in tristram's WCW diary when he placed Goldberg in the Horsemen which also sparked some debate. You two are kings of diary writing and he made Goldberg work so I have no doubt you'll make Guerrero work.

 

I have to agree that it makes sense the way you've explained it so far because we all know that Eddie is great on the mic whereas Storm and Awesome, well their not so you need somebody who can do that job, and with Anderson's ring time limited and Flair almost inevitably on the top of your time decline list, then it's good to get Guerrero in early.

 

Loved the HBK/Lesner match. I am wondering how long it will take to build somebody up to the point their ready to take the belt from Lesner though, so I'm expecting him to hold onto it for a few more months yet.

 

Really looking forward to the newly named PPV.