World Championship Wrestling 2002: Rebuilding the Empire

[mikemelling]

As for Lesnar... Well, thinking back to Lesnar's runs in the WWE he always had his biggest problems when wrestling against guys who were technically better than him (they were indeed few and far betwen Benoit/Angle etc.). Maybe that's the route? Build someone up who is a wrestling machine to a point where they have the opportunity to beat Lesnar. Instead of trying to outrun him, trying to outspeed him... Try to outwrestle him? Benoit focused on Lesnar's shoulders and was the closest that anyone came in the last 6 months of his contract to beating him until Guerrero did with Goldberg's help. In his first run, Kurt Angle was the only man to legitimately beat him on more than one occasion.

 

All in, I would suggest someone aiming to break the big man down.

[Bigpapa42]

I like it BP, I like it.

 

I don't quite agree with that analogy, Phantom. I know in ring they're similar in many degrees that they can go from flashy to sadistic quickly. But their style out of the ring seemed very different to me. Tully was more of a straight shooter in that sense. Eddie is sinister and cunning.

 

All in all, I agree with the decision to put Eddie into the Horsemen. Because it brings about so many different potential storylines. He also is a potential plant to internal devastation, and he can learn from Flair. The storyline I'm looking forward to in all actualities is how the Horsemen deal with Bill Goldberg for turning them down. It's a massive thing in pro wrasslin to turn down the Horsemen, and this I want to see played out big-time.

 

By the way BP, I absolutely loved how HBK-Lesnar went. It makes perfect sense. I can only imagine that Brock's stats are improving massively working alongside such great wrestlers. The one story I would love to see a bit more of now is RVD-Flair. I must say, that particular feud you had going was my favourite moment in this so far.

 

My favourite ever writer on these boards was keefmoon. Keefy had an enormous ability to make you think twice before you made any bold predictions, because he had that Agatha Christie-ish ability to leave you thinking... this appears logical... that appears logical... so does that... that one could happen also... what about that person, surely they're a chance here... All of a sudden with keefy's writing you felt obliged to read through even minute sentence for hints. Similarly with what you are doing here, I love being able to come in and here and spitball different ideas, and the only reason I can do so is there are legitimately I reckon 100s of different springboard storylines over the next 2-3 years with how you lay the foundations, and much like the very best bookers and certainly not the ones who book the WWE and TNA shows that clog up our TV sets, you have the ability to go back in time, look for the political associations, the emotions, the resentments, the conflicts that could be brewing for a very long period and make use of it. And the key with that is that while there are a lot of options right now for Eddie, you can filter all of them through over a period of time.

 

Great work indeed.

 

I like PS's analogy to Tully. While they are differences are there, they are similar enough that Guerrero can easily take on the Tully role. And those differences are a good thing, in my mind. I want to evolve the Four Horsemen, not just simply recreate 1987 all over again. The real challenge with the Horsemen, to me, is making them relevant and functional for a new century while still retaining the values and elements that made them so important and successful in the first place. Its something I feel you did so well with your Four Horsemen.

 

To be compared to Keefmoon is humbling. I don't think I do it as well as Keef does. In a way, its a method for me to keep my options open. By laying down something that would create multiple options, I am giving myself different directions I can take. By putting in some of the details, I'm able to go back and connect the dots later.

 

This writing WOULD have saved WCW even if some of the events that have lead up to weren't feasible at the time. This is why the IWC get so pissy with the big companies. We're not asking them to only book guys we all like, we're asking for them to book smarter and give people who get the pops a chance. We're all wrestling fans like those who own these companies purpose to be.

 

I've got to say, if this had happened in real life, the WWE would have had A LOT to worry about. I honestly hope this is being reflected in game.

 

Agree with your assessment of why current pro wrestling product in America is lacking. They so rarely seem to look long-term, whether forward or backward. When they do look backward, its trying to completely recreate something (TNA is particularly guilty of this) rather than build off of what was done before. I honestly just think that they've gotten sloppy and lazy creatively. Both are capable of doing things well occasionally, so its not like the ability is gone.

 

Also agree that when I criticize as a fan, its because I want to see these promotions become better. That's what it comes down to.

 

Have to say that when I first read Guerrero was the fourth horseman that I was a little skeptical over it. I was struggling to see it, but I remember in tristram's WCW diary when he placed Goldberg in the Horsemen which also sparked some debate. You two are kings of diary writing and he made Goldberg work so I have no doubt you'll make Guerrero work.

 

I have to agree that it makes sense the way you've explained it so far because we all know that Eddie is great on the mic whereas Storm and Awesome, well their not so you need somebody who can do that job, and with Anderson's ring time limited and Flair almost inevitably on the top of your time decline list, then it's good to get Guerrero in early.

 

Loved the HBK/Lesner match. I am wondering how long it will take to build somebody up to the point their ready to take the belt from Lesner though, so I'm expecting him to hold onto it for a few more months yet.

 

Really looking forward to the newly named PPV.

 

Thanks. I figured that some would go "huh?" when I picked Guerrero. And I don't expect that absolutely everyone will end up loving it in the long term. But it was done with (attempted) logic and planning, so at least it wasn't me just pointing at the roster and going "him!".

 

As for Lesnar... Well, thinking back to Lesnar's runs in the WWE he always had his biggest problems when wrestling against guys who were technically better than him (they were indeed few and far betwen Benoit/Angle etc.). Maybe that's the route? Build someone up who is a wrestling machine to a point where they have the opportunity to beat Lesnar. Instead of trying to outrun him, trying to outspeed him... Try to outwrestle him? Benoit focused on Lesnar's shoulders and was the closest that anyone came in the last 6 months of his contract to beating him until Guerrero did with Goldberg's help. In his first run, Kurt Angle was the only man to legitimately beat him on more than one occasion.

 

All in, I would suggest someone aiming to break the big man down.

 

I would love - LOVE - to snag Kurt Angle from the WWE. He would definitely be a major threat to Lesnar. The problem would be that it really isn't a great idea to have a guy walk in from the competition and immediately go over your biggest monster. So Angle would need some build in WCW, I would think. Its all for naught, as I can't get him anytime soon anyway.

 

I don't really want to give anything away regarding my plan for Lesnar, but I will say that it won't be a one-step deal. Its something that will be progressed toward. The idea being that when someone would go back and look at the build up toward it, they would see a series of events that made the payoff make sense.

[Bigpapa42]

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k235/Bigpapa42_2006/WCW/Media/EWR_net3.jpg

Wrestling Heat Editorial

Eddie the Horseman

By A.N. Marshall

 

It has been proven, time and again, that professional wrestling fans can and will debate almost anything into the ground. Almost any point of contention, and seemingly even some non-contentious ones, can become the subject of threads on wrestling forums spanning hundreds of posts in length. The WWE World Heavyweight championship win by Edge was a topic that generated intense and lengthy debate. As was the mega-push of Brock Lesnar months prior to that. Those are understandable, given the perceived (if not always actual) importance given to world titles. It was a surprise to many when the induction of Eddie Guerrero into the Four Horsemen became a debate of similar level. It is not always easy to predict what event or decision will stir the passions of the fans.

 

I must be honest here - when I first saw the introduction of Eddie Guerrero as the fourth Horsemen at Bash at the Beach 2002, I was skeptical. I did not hate the move, but I certainly didn't love it. Once I put on my "wrestling observer and analyst" hat to consider the move, it began to make more sense. Over time, its come to feel natural to me. I realize that some fans still resist the idea, but this is one I feel - both as an observer and a fan - that WCW got right.

 

There is a reason that fans are so touchy about who should and should not become a member of the Four Horsemen - its easily the most beloved and respected and probably even hated stable in the history of professional wrestling. No one has done it better over a long period of the time than the Horsemen. It existed in one form or another from 1986 through 1999, and has featured some legendary names.

 

When questioning whether a given worker "fits" as a Horsemen, it becomes important to look at what elements have made the Horsemen great and unique as a stable over the years.

 

Talent

 

First and foremost, the Horsemen have been about talent. The elite of professional wrestling. Looking over the all-time roster of members, there are a few glaring exceptions, but being a Horsemen is about being the best at everything you do. More than anything else, its about being the best in the ring.

 

In terms of talent, its impossible to argue that Eddie Guerrero doesn't fit. Since he returned from the WWE, he has been the MVP of WCW. Show after show, he works to put on the best possible matches against any opponent and he never ceases trying to improve. There are some observers who feel that its inevitable that Guerrero will wear the WCW World Heavyweight championship someday, as he is simply too talented to not make it to the very top.

 

As an aside, the perception of being "the best" to be a Horsemen is perhaps somewhat overplayed by fans. Many members of the stable have been great workers, but there are a few who have been mediocre at best. Outside of Ric Flair, many have never been much more than upper midcard talent throughout their careers. Of the 14 primary members the group had between 1986 and 1999, 7 have been world champions in notable American promotions. That number is being somewhat generous, as Chris Benoit was WCW champion for a day in a period that the title belt was being passed around hot-potato, and Curt Hennig held the AWA World Heavyweight title when the promotion was in serious decline. Perhaps more notable is that of the classic Horsemen quartet, only Ric Flair was ever a world champion. In that light, the group has been more about outright talent (save perhaps for the Sid Vicious days) than being true top level stars.

 

"A Family"

 

The Four Horsemen were built on the idea that the group is stronger and more important than the individual. Strength in numbers and unity of purpose have always been panacea for the Horsemen. A selfish loner could never really function properly as part of the Horsemen unit. Starting with the Anderson "clan" and their "cousin" Ric Flair, it is perhaps this familial approach which kept the group active and important for so long.

 

La Pareja del Terror. The Latino World Order. The Filthy Animals. The Radicalz. The Guerrero family. An accomplished tag team wrestler, Eddie Guerrero has almost made a career out of being a part of different factions and groups. He understands their value and it means to commit yourself to something bigger than yourself. To put the group values and needs above your own. Despite the occasional mistreatment of nephew Chavo, Eddie Guerrero understands family.

 

Legacy

 

Becoming part of the Four Horsemen means becoming part of professional wrestling history. Its having your name etched onto the stone that will last forever. Its like main eventing WrestleMania or Starrcade - no matter what you do afterward, no one can take that away from you. To truly be a proper Horsemen, one has to respect the legacy of what you have just joined. Its what Curt Hennig didn't do when he turned on his new brothers and joined the New World Order. When it comes to understanding and respecting legacies, Eddie Guerrero coming from an important wrestling families surely provides him with an advantage in that regard.

 

Confidence

 

Call it confidence. Call it self-belief. Call it arrogance. The Horsemen have never lacked for it. Its not just about being the best, its about believing you are the best and proclaiming it to the world. Its about having a swagger. "The Nature Boy" Ric Flair is the epitome of it. Eddie Guerrero has never lacked for confidence, arrogance, or swagger. Neither man has ever been restrained by a great deal of modesty.

 

"Just Win, Baby!"

 

You cannot be "the best" if you don't win. Winning has always been key to the Four Horsemen formula. Take away the success in the ring in the ring and the arrogant proclamations of greatness become hollow, just loud boasts in a business filled with such. The Horsemen have never been afraid to win by any means necessary. Nothing less should have been expected of a group who's leader proudly proclaimed himself "the dirtiest player in the game".

 

Whether he's playing the babyface or the heel, Eddie Guerrero loves to cheat. In his stint in the WWE, that very much became his gimmick. Moreover, Guerrero has been truly innovative in finding new ways to win matches.

 

Styling and Profiling

 

Perhaps one of the most key aspects to the Horsemen throughout their history - their presentation as serious, dangerous competitors in the ring who live it up outside the ring. The jets, the limos, the hotels and casinos, the clothes, the women, and the money. Woo! Does Eddie Guerrero fit that image? To an extent, yes. Not completely. But then neither did a lot of the men who have become part of the Horsemen over the years. One could argue that now that Flair is in his 50s, he doesn't really fit that image to the same extent anymore, either.

 

__________________

 

What some fans tend to overlook when they criticize the decision to make Eddie Guerrero a Horseman is what it meant for World Championship Wrestling. Much like Rey Mysterio Jr. winning the United States championship, Guerrero becoming a Horseman and moving into the WCW elite sent a clear message to the talent. That message was that talent trumps all. That the true keys to success in the modern WCW were the abilities to put on great matches and connect with fans. In the WWE, success was increasingly dependent on your standing with The Kliq. It made for an increasingly stark contrast between the two companies.

 

With Eddie Guerrero, Lance Storm, and Mike Awesome joining Ric Flair as the new Horsemen, it created a group for the future. While none of the three new additions were particularly young – all three were over 30 – they were still considered the future of World Championship Wrestling. Having Sting join the reformed Horsemen, as some suggested, would have really been a step back rather than a step forward.

 

The addition Guerrero has been compared by some to original Horseman Tully Blanchard. The two men certainly have their similarities. Guerrero has also been compared to Flair, and while some reject that comparison, I believe its pretty valid when you break “The Nature Boy” and “Latino Heat” down to the basics. To my mind, that is where so many people have issue with the inclusion of Eddie Guerrero, even if they don't realize it. Eddie Guerrero is in many ways too similar to Ric Flair, so he almost feels like replacement for Flair, rather than a supplement. And perhaps that is the intent on the part of World Championship Wrestling.

 

I honestly felt that the reservations of many of the critic of the move would have been alleviated in the weeks following the Bash at the Beach pay per view, as Nitro featured a series of Horsemen-based vignettes were were, in my opinion, fantastic. The group – which was actually six, as they had both Stacy Kielber and Arn Anderson with them – were shown buying expensive new suits, partying in Vegas, and taking over New York. It was actually Lance Storm who seemed somewhat out of place, with his stoic serious demeanor, but he played the “straight man” beautifully. The interaction between Flair and Guerrero in some of those segments was fantastic, but apparently some fans remain unconvinced.

 

An interesting story – and one that has never been completely verified – was that Eddie Guerrero was Paul Heyman's second choice to join the Horsemen. The first choice was Goldberg. According to “inside sources”, Heyman felt that Goldberg's character was simply being eclipsed by that of Brock Lesnar. So to keep the former champion relevant, Goldberg would join the Horsemen and his character would gradually evolve. He would go from the badass who worked alone to the even more dangerous badass who could function as part of the group. Flair loved the idea. Goldberg didn't. After initially agreeing to it, though with some reluctance, Goldberg changed his mind and forced Heyman to go to plan B.

 

Was Guerrero the “right” choice? At the moment, I would say yes. However, its the kind of decision that can look much better or much worse with the perspective of time. So as always, time will tell...

[Hashasheen]

And BAM, Tristram hits the nail on the head.

He usually does when it comes to WCW.

 

I would definitely like to make use of CW, so I am hoping he pans out. But at his starting level, he would be something of a liability for me. I am not intimately familar with his work from that era, so its possible Genadi has underrted him a bit, but Genadi is quite good in that regard. If CW develops as I hope, I'll have some options to play with down the road. If he doesn't, it disappoints, but its not a legit connection, so its not heart-breaking.

He was somewhat impressive in his time in ECW, but it was his status as a faux-Anderson made him stick in my head.

 

Edit: Read the update. Excellent explanation and deconstruction of the choice of Eddie Guerrero and why Goldberg wasn't in it. Fits his real life attitude at the end of WCW rather decently.

 

Second Edit: Funny note. Using a boatload of cash (2 mil) and hiring a couple of big-name wrestlers, I am now the second largest promotion in a game I'm playing, right after SWF. My promotion? Ring of Fire.

[totti]

If you did sign Angle and he was the one to defeat Lesner I would mark incredibly hard.

 

The more you think about it then the more you can see Eddie as a horseman and it probably is something to do with your fantastic writing. You've explained it so well and out of the roster that you have I can't name anybody that has everything you were looking for as a fourth horseman. Great job.

[DreamGoddessLindsey]

I gotta admit, I'm a Guerrero skeptic. I'm looking forward to seeing how this all plays out. See how the interactions go.

[Bigpapa42]

He usually does when it comes to WCW.

 

He was somewhat impressive in his time in ECW, but it was his status as a faux-Anderson made him stick in my head.

 

Edit: Read the update. Excellent explanation and deconstruction of the choice of Eddie Guerrero and why Goldberg wasn't in it. Fits his real life attitude at the end of WCW rather decently.

 

Second Edit: Funny note. Using a boatload of cash (2 mil) and hiring a couple of big-name wrestlers, I am now the second largest promotion in a game I'm playing, right after SWF. My promotion? Ring of Fire.

 

I've heard CW was one of the rising stars of ECW near the end, but not sure how much that really means he could've stepped into one of the bigger promotions...?

 

I've honestly never tried a C-verse UK promotion. I always hear they are damned tough to run...

 

If you did sign Angle and he was the one to defeat Lesner I would mark incredibly hard.

 

The more you think about it then the more you can see Eddie as a horseman and it probably is something to do with your fantastic writing. You've explained it so well and out of the roster that you have I can't name anybody that has everything you were looking for as a fourth horseman. Great job.

 

Eddie G just felt like the right call. But I do think it depends on what someone is looking for in a new Horsemen member, so I can understand why some don't think he fits that well. You could make an argument that Storm and Awesome don't fit that well, in some ways. When it comes right down to it, his intended purpose within the Horsemen will be to take over Flair's role. However, when that happens or whether he stays with them long enough for it to happen is open at this point... as Tristram says, there are a lot of options going forward.

 

I gotta admit, I'm a Guerrero skeptic. I'm looking forward to seeing how this all plays out. See how the interactions go.

 

Hopefully you'll be won over. That said, this is where doing an overview approach like this can be a disadvantage as opposed to show-by-show full recaps. The reader doesn't necessarily see each feud play out in much detail. However, since the Horsemen are intended to be important, they will get mentioned plenty in the recaps.

[BoomKing]

Hopefully you'll be won over. That said, this is where doing an overview approach like this can be a disadvantage as opposed to show-by-show full recaps. The reader doesn't necessarily see each feud play out in much detail. However, since the Horsemen are intended to be important, they will get mentioned plenty in the recaps.

 

See, you see it as a disadvantage...I see it as an advantage. The readers might not get every little detail, but it allows us to come to our own conclusions and fill in our own blanks. Some people like Eddie in The Horsemen, others not so much, but that's probably because everybody has a different image in their head. It's the old Alien trick. The less we see of the Alien, the scarier it is. There's nothing scarier than the image we make in our head. Eddie joining The Horsemen is a bigger moment in people's heads than you could have possibly wrote down on paper (or typed I guess.)

 

I personally love it. I think Eddie is very much the modern (or 2002 at least) Horseman. In fact, like you say, I could probably argue that Storm, and definitely Awesome, are less Horsemen material than Eddie.

 

Now, perhaps the problem people have is something you have already kind of addressed. Eddie is seen as a replacement to Flair rather than a contemporary. I can see how that would leave an uneasy feeling in peoples stomachs as it has the potential to take the emphasis away from Flair in his own stable.

 

Whichever way you slice it, one simple act, placing Guerrero in The Four Horsemen has created so much comment and that can only be a good thing!

[Hashasheen]

I've heard CW was one of the rising stars of ECW near the end, but not sure how much that really means he could've stepped into one of the bigger promotions...?

With Paulie around to craft around his flaws, he could be something in WCW. Just saying.

 

I've honestly never tried a C-verse UK promotion. I always hear they are damned tough to run...

Very. This was my fifth try and in the end I decided to Hoganize the company by having one Mr. Jeff Nova (a wrestler who seriously starts out with A ratings in Britain) to win the gold and go on a Hogan 80's streak, with him defending it multiple times in one night just to get good ratings. So far, he's defended the ROF Global Championship a record 52 times, and remains the top dog of the promotion, even as I bring in other main-eventers and raise my own home-grown talents. Nobody draws or does a match like he does. I had him do a series of matches with Anna Ki that all ended in draws (to heighten the suspense and all before finishing it on a PPV) and from a B- to an A* did they go. It was the reason I even got a PPV deal, actually. Before that, I just toured Britain on a trio of weekly events. Now? I'm hitting Japan, Europe, the USA and the UK and I got TV deals in Japan, Europe and the UK, and I'm angling for bigger TV deals and a PPV deal for Japan. Stealing McMahon's ideas every now and then help a lot.

 

Hopefully you'll be won over. That said, this is where doing an overview approach like this can be a disadvantage as opposed to show-by-show full recaps. The reader doesn't necessarily see each feud play out in much detail. However, since the Horsemen are intended to be important, they will get mentioned plenty in the recaps.

I don't think it would be a disadvantage. Like Boomking, I personally when recapping a feud like it not to be too over heavy on details so I can imagine what happened myself to a degree.

[totti]

The more I think about the new Horseman, the more I can really see it working. To me all three of the new members have their comparisons to former Horsemen members.

 

As has already been stated, Eddie is very much like Flair with his charisma and could kind of be like 'the new dirtiest player in the game' as he is known for his lying and cheating during matches.

 

Lance Storm could be seen as Chris Benoit in some ways. He isn't the best on the microphone and although he probably doesn't have the intensity of a Chris Benoit, he is a very, very good technical wrestler and is also Canadian.

 

For some strange reason I'm seeing Mike Awesome as Steve 'Mongo' McMichael. Maybe it's just based on looks and size alone I don't know, but to me he can draw that comparison. Now I don't know much about McMichael because I never followed WCW so I apologise if I'm completely off the mark with this one.

 

This is only my opinion though, but based on this I can't think of three better people to be Horsemen.

[Bigpapa42]

See, you see it as a disadvantage...I see it as an advantage. The readers might not get every little detail, but it allows us to come to our own conclusions and fill in our own blanks. Some people like Eddie in The Horsemen, others not so much, but that's probably because everybody has a different image in their head. It's the old Alien trick. The less we see of the Alien, the scarier it is. There's nothing scarier than the image we make in our head. Eddie joining The Horsemen is a bigger moment in people's heads than you could have possibly wrote down on paper (or typed I guess.)

 

I personally love it. I think Eddie is very much the modern (or 2002 at least) Horseman. In fact, like you say, I could probably argue that Storm, and definitely Awesome, are less Horsemen material than Eddie.

 

Now, perhaps the problem people have is something you have already kind of addressed. Eddie is seen as a replacement to Flair rather than a contemporary. I can see how that would leave an uneasy feeling in peoples stomachs as it has the potential to take the emphasis away from Flair in his own stable.

 

Whichever way you slice it, one simple act, placing Guerrero in The Four Horsemen has created so much comment and that can only be a good thing!

 

Very true, Boom. I love that this approach allows (or forces, depending on your perspective) the reader to imagine a great deal. And I do think that's very effective. If I say that two workers had a great back and forth promo - whether its Shawn Michaels and Ric Flair or Raven and Mick Foley - most readers can imagine that far better than I could possible write it.

 

I guess what I meant was that this approach limits how much I can try to change someone's mind on something like Eddie in the Horsemen. There's less direct interaction that could convince them. That said, I don't mind that some people don't love the move - its realistic and its natural that some won't. And you're right - the fact that it has readers talking (err... typing) is awesome.

 

With Paulie around to craft around his flaws, he could be something in WCW. Just saying.

 

Very. This was my fifth try and in the end I decided to Hoganize the company by having one Mr. Jeff Nova (a wrestler who seriously starts out with A ratings in Britain) to win the gold and go on a Hogan 80's streak, with him defending it multiple times in one night just to get good ratings. So far, he's defended the ROF Global Championship a record 52 times, and remains the top dog of the promotion, even as I bring in other main-eventers and raise my own home-grown talents. Nobody draws or does a match like he does. I had him do a series of matches with Anna Ki that all ended in draws (to heighten the suspense and all before finishing it on a PPV) and from a B- to an A* did they go. It was the reason I even got a PPV deal, actually. Before that, I just toured Britain on a trio of weekly events. Now? I'm hitting Japan, Europe, the USA and the UK and I got TV deals in Japan, Europe and the UK, and I'm angling for bigger TV deals and a PPV deal for Japan. Stealing McMahon's ideas every now and then help a lot.

 

I don't think it would be a disadvantage. Like Boomking, I personally when recapping a feud like it not to be too over heavy on details so I can imagine what happened myself to a degree.

 

I have used the "spam the top guy" approach a few times in TCW with Tommy Cornell. With someone talented and over, it can work almost too well.

 

The more I think about the new Horseman, the more I can really see it working. To me all three of the new members have their comparisons to former Horsemen members.

 

As has already been stated, Eddie is very much like Flair with his charisma and could kind of be like 'the new dirtiest player in the game' as he is known for his lying and cheating during matches.

 

Lance Storm could be seen as Chris Benoit in some ways. He isn't the best on the microphone and although he probably doesn't have the intensity of a Chris Benoit, he is a very, very good technical wrestler and is also Canadian.

 

For some strange reason I'm seeing Mike Awesome as Steve 'Mongo' McMichael. Maybe it's just based on looks and size alone I don't know, but to me he can draw that comparison. Now I don't know much about McMichael because I never followed WCW so I apologise if I'm completely off the mark with this one.

 

This is only my opinion though, but based on this I can't think of three better people to be Horsemen.

 

Lance Storm in the Benoit role works. I always thought Benoit played the Arn Anderson role (though I could be wrong on that, to be honest).

 

The comparison between Mongo and Awesome actually works, I think. Mongo was never that great in the ring, and Awesome is the weakest of the foursome in that regard. Going back to the original lineup, I compare him to Ole Anderson - big, tough hoss with some charisma.

[juggaloninjalee]

That explaination of Guerrero to Ric Flair in that column was great and helped win me over. Now I can see it when I look at the 2 characters from a more simple stand point.

[Hashasheen]

I have used the "spam the top guy" approach a few times in TCW with Tommy Cornell. With someone talented and over, it can work almost too well.

That part just happened. I'm contracted for 3 shows with 21 Enormous TV Network in Japan for my lesser show, 4 Japanese mediums for my bigger show, a new show for a second Enormous TV network in Japan, 1 Small European/British Network for my lesser show, and a British Medium for my bigger show. In conclusion, I have 2 shows shown in UK/Europe where I have B popularity, yet 3 shows with much larger networks in Japan, where I have C popularity.

 

So, I've pretty much accomplished everything I set out to do in this little run at ROF, and have become more complicated and burdened than WCW in 2000.

 

I'm just gonna let this one be and start a new game...

[Bigpapa42]

That explaination of Guerrero to Ric Flair in that column was great and helped win me over. Now I can see it when I look at the 2 characters from a more simple stand point.

 

Great! Good to know the editorial piece helped at least a bit.

 

That part just happened. I'm contracted for 3 shows with 21 Enormous TV Network in Japan for my lesser show, 4 Japanese mediums for my bigger show, a new show for a second Enormous TV network in Japan, 1 Small European/British Network for my lesser show, and a British Medium for my bigger show. In conclusion, I have 2 shows shown in UK/Europe where I have B popularity, yet 3 shows with much larger networks in Japan, where I have C popularity.

 

So, I've pretty much accomplished everything I set out to do in this little run at ROF, and have become more complicated and burdened than WCW in 2000.

 

I'm just gonna let this one be and start a new game...

 

The ironic downside to expansion... The goal of most games (looking long-term) is to reach global, assemble a ulta-talented roster from top to bottom, and simply dominate. Yet once you get there... it can get boring. A huge bloated roster gets unwieldy and frustrating. Having six hours of TV to book a week can get monotonous. Starting a WWE game set anywhere in the 00s feels that way from the start for me. Its not overwhelming (though it can be), so much as it is more than I want to deal with.

 

Its actually something I'm quite wary of with this one. I have a bunch of guys in development that I want to introduce to ECW gradually. The problem becomes moving more talent from ECW to the main roster - some guys are gonna have to go to make room. If I end up looking at every worker and thinking "eh, they have some use so I'll keep them", I'll end up in the same situation I had with my Generation Supreme game.

 

I do have plans to add a second A show. I resisted the urge to negotiate for it during the August window, but I'll probably try in late 2002 or early 2003 to add it. Just not sure on the name. Not sure I want to reactivate Thunder, Saturday Night, Worldwide, or any other previous WCW shows. I kind of like the idea of them moving forward with a new show. I'm open to suggestions on the name.

[Hashasheen]

The ironic downside to expansion... The goal of most games (looking long-term) is to reach global, assemble a ulta-talented roster from top to bottom, and simply dominate. Yet once you get there... it can get boring. A huge bloated roster gets unwieldy and frustrating. Having six hours of TV to book a week can get monotonous. Starting a WWE game set anywhere in the 00s feels that way from the start for me. Its not overwhelming (though it can be), so much as it is more than I want to deal with.

I prefer the challenge of overtaking the opponent than being the one to be taken down. For me, its more about the journey than anything else. Which is why I'm going to try a ECW 2009 one. Limited roster that isn't really over and for the most part won't be poached by the other two brands that I want to survive past early 2010. I'm not using the game, so it'll be a bit harder, but then I can freely discuss any ideas I have on this forum.

 

Its actually something I'm quite wary of with this one. I have a bunch of guys in development that I want to introduce to ECW gradually. The problem becomes moving more talent from ECW to the main roster - some guys are gonna have to go to make room. If I end up looking at every worker and thinking "eh, they have some use so I'll keep them", I'll end up in the same situation I had with my Generation Supreme game.

An epic game that was, though. And personally, if you send them to development when you need to move them to give them some skillz, you should have no difficulties in moving up who you want. Is ECW a brand-split here or are you using one big roster? Because if that's the case, you could just move the guys off of WCW to ECW to get mowed down by Big Ol' Raven who's proving ECW isn't just a training ground.

 

I do have plans to add a second A show. I resisted the urge to negotiate for it during the August window, but I'll probably try in late 2002 or early 2003 to add it. Just not sure on the name. Not sure I want to reactivate Thunder, Saturday Night, Worldwide, or any other previous WCW shows. I kind of like the idea of them moving forward with a new show. I'm open to suggestions on the name.

 

Here's a name I used in my ROF game for my secondary show: Maximum Velocity.

 

Of course, you still have Velocity the B-show for WWE in your game...

 

Impact? A nice little tease against TNA, which only has Xplosion around this time I think.

 

Live Wire? A nod to CZCW, C-verse's King of the Indies for the most part.

 

nWo? That should be good as a poke at the old storyline and the Kliq.

[BoomKing]

I do have plans to add a second A show. I resisted the urge to negotiate for it during the August window, but I'll probably try in late 2002 or early 2003 to add it. Just not sure on the name. Not sure I want to reactivate Thunder, Saturday Night, Worldwide, or any other previous WCW shows. I kind of like the idea of them moving forward with a new show. I'm open to suggestions on the name.

 

Ummm, WCW Aftershock? Kind of like nitro's the big bang live on monday night, and Aftershock is the force that's still felt several days later.

 

WCW Blitz?

 

WCW Carnage?

 

WCW Warfare?

[Bigpapa42]

A quick update - I was hoping to have August done and posted by now. Unfortunately, while booking through the month yesterday, I ran into some... difficulties. I would say more, but any real explanation would give something away. So I hope to have things done within the next day or two...

 

I prefer the challenge of overtaking the opponent than being the one to be taken down. For me, its more about the journey than anything else. Which is why I'm going to try a ECW 2009 one. Limited roster that isn't really over and for the most part won't be poached by the other two brands that I want to survive past early 2010. I'm not using the game, so it'll be a bit harder, but then I can freely discuss any ideas I have on this forum.

 

An epic game that was, though. And personally, if you send them to development when you need to move them to give them some skillz, you should have no difficulties in moving up who you want. Is ECW a brand-split here or are you using one big roster? Because if that's the case, you could just move the guys off of WCW to ECW to get mowed down by Big Ol' Raven who's proving ECW isn't just a training ground.

 

Here's a name I used in my ROF game for my secondary show: Maximum Velocity.

 

Of course, you still have Velocity the B-show for WWE in your game...

 

Impact? A nice little tease against TNA, which only has Xplosion around this time I think.

 

Live Wire? A nod to CZCW, C-verse's King of the Indies for the most part.

 

nWo? That should be good as a poke at the old storyline and the Kliq.

 

I need to learn to enjoy the journey moreso when it comes to TEW. I try to run cult or smaller promotions, whether Real World or C-verse, and find myself getting frustrated at the realities and limitations of a smaller promotion.

 

ECW is a separate brand. I'm currently running it as a 90-minute show. Once I bring some more talent out of development, it will probably move to a full two hours. I'm trying to keep it as a separate, stand-alone brand. I do still have a bit of talent cross-over, but I'm trying to move away from that. The idea is to have it as a stand-alone proving ground, so when someone "proves" themselves to the point that they are moved to the main roster, it would be a big deal. Because of that, I'm loathe to really have a lot of talent from the WCW side jumping over. If they have an ECW connection, then maybe. But if not, then having a bunch of WCW guys on it would make it too similar to what the WWE ended up doing with WWECW.

 

There will be some cross-over, but its going to be done quite intentionally and with specific reasons...

 

Maximum Velocity isn't bad at all, but already having the WWE show named Velocity makes it tough to use. Impact would be funny, but might be confusing to readers. Don't mind Live Wire at all... Thanks for the suggestions.

 

Ummm, WCW Aftershock? Kind of like nitro's the big bang live on monday night, and Aftershock is the force that's still felt several days later.

 

WCW Blitz?

 

WCW Carnage?

 

WCW Warfare?

 

I like Aftershock, and Carnage isn't bad. Blitz almost seems like it would work great for a recap show of some type. I'll have to put some thought into it, but I've got several months (game-time) to figure it out. Thanks Boom.

[Phantom Stranger]

WCW Glory.

[NoNeck]

I like Aftershock, too.

 

The explanation for it sold me.

 

[Hashasheen]

A quick update - I was hoping to have August done and posted by now. Unfortunately, while booking through the month yesterday, I ran into some... difficulties. I would say more, but any real explanation would give something away. So I hope to have things done within the next day or two...

It's cool. Take all the time you need.

 

I need to learn to enjoy the journey moreso when it comes to TEW. I try to run cult or smaller promotions, whether Real World or C-verse, and find myself getting frustrated at the realities and limitations of a smaller promotion.

It can be frustrating, and I'd probably have a heart attack doing it IRL, but in-game, its fun to screw the big companies to become number one. Imagine UWF in the 80's over taking JCP, or ECW beating out WCW and WWF for No.1. Or even ROH unseating TNA for No.2 if you want. NWA making a comeback in the new millenia...

 

ECW is a separate brand. I'm currently running it as a 90-minute show. Once I bring some more talent out of development, it will probably move to a full two hours. I'm trying to keep it as a separate, stand-alone brand. I do still have a bit of talent cross-over, but I'm trying to move away from that. The idea is to have it as a stand-alone proving ground, so when someone "proves" themselves to the point that they are moved to the main roster, it would be a big deal. Because of that, I'm loathe to really have a lot of talent from the WCW side jumping over. If they have an ECW connection, then maybe. But if not, then having a bunch of WCW guys on it would make it too similar to what the WWE ended up doing with WWECW.

I don't mean like really staying there. A couple of months for them to be brought there by Foley to give the rookies some edge and for Raven to take out his aggression on.

 

Maximum Velocity isn't bad at all, but already having the WWE show named Velocity makes it tough to use. Impact would be funny, but might be confusing to readers. Don't mind Live Wire at all... Thanks for the suggestions.

Hm... Here's one last thought: Tuesday Night Tapout/Friday Night Fury.

 

I like Aftershock, and Carnage isn't bad. Blitz almost seems like it would work great for a recap show of some type. I'll have to put some thought into it, but I've got several months (game-time) to figure it out. Thanks Boom.

Aftershock I liked the most, but its sounds more like a PPV thing for Starrcade like Backlash is for Wrestlemania.

[juggaloninjalee]

I think Aftershock sounds like a B show. Honestly it would make more sense to bring back Thunder. No need to make up a new show right now.

 

Or some other ideas...

 

Knockout

Brute Force

Takeover

Warfare

Revenge

Chaos

[BoomKing]

I think Aftershock sounds like a B show.

 

Yeah I can see that. Suppose it's a little too close to Afterburn!

[James Casey]

Epicentre or Centrepiece could work, or just have a throwback to old-school WCW/NWA and call it Clash of the Champions.

 

Ooh, just a thought: WCW Empire.

 

Showcase, Glory, Elevation, Centre Stage (is there a Centre Stage venue in Atlanta?), Takedown, Wipeout, 360, Epic, Breakdown (or Break It Down), Infiltration, Futureshock, Point Blank

 

I'll stop now...

[Bigpapa42]

Thanks for all the suggestions, folks. Determined to have the show done tonight... unless more lady-friend drama unfolds...

 

WCW Glory.

 

I love simplicity in a name, so this one definitely appeals.

 

I like Aftershock, too.

 

The explanation for it sold me.

 

 

Yeah, the explanation made a difference for me as well.

 

It's cool. Take all the time you need.

 

It can be frustrating, and I'd probably have a heart attack doing it IRL, but in-game, its fun to screw the big companies to become number one. Imagine UWF in the 80's over taking JCP, or ECW beating out WCW and WWF for No.1. Or even ROH unseating TNA for No.2 if you want. NWA making a comeback in the new millenia...

 

I don't mean like really staying there. A couple of months for them to be brought there by Foley to give the rookies some edge and for Raven to take out his aggression on.

 

Hm... Here's one last thought: Tuesday Night Tapout/Friday Night Fury.

 

Aftershock I liked the most, but its sounds more like a PPV thing for Starrcade like Backlash is for Wrestlemania.

 

I think I just lack the game-patience to build long-term toward a goal like that. I'm like that in Football Manager, too - I can never start out with a tiny club that has no money and no quality, patiently building toward something great.

 

Tapout would be fantastic if I was going for a specific approach to the show. I've also toyed with the idea of trying to bring in a bit more MMA-influence to WCW, just to further differentiate the product from the WWE, but I'm not certain if that's something I want to pursue or not.

 

Hmmm... as much I like Aftershock, you kinda have a point there...

 

I think Aftershock sounds like a B show. Honestly it would make more sense to bring back Thunder. No need to make up a new show right now.

 

Or some other ideas...

 

Knockout

Brute Force

Takeover

Warfare

Revenge

Chaos

 

As do you. While BoomKing's explanation of Aftershock makes it work, I think it could confuse viewers a bit...

 

Regarding Thunder, I'm just quite hesitant because I don't think its the kind of legacy that they would want to resurrect. The show was basically a joke after awhile, it seems, and not well-regarded or fondly-remember by fans. I see Bischoff wanting to distance the promotion from that era in many ways, and I see the use of Thunder as unlikely just based on that. I actually considered not using Nitro for that reason, but the name value was too strong and that would have been too much of a disconnect, I feel.

 

Yeah I can see that. Suppose it's a little too close to Afterburn!

 

Its not completely out of the running yet, BK, but I'm a bit more hesitant. If I add another B show at some point, that is going to be at the top of the heap for names for sure...

 

Epicentre or Centrepiece could work, or just have a throwback to old-school WCW/NWA and call it Clash of the Champions.

 

Ooh, just a thought: WCW Empire.

 

Showcase, Glory, Elevation, Centre Stage (is there a Centre Stage venue in Atlanta?), Takedown, Wipeout, 360, Epic, Breakdown (or Break It Down), Infiltration, Futureshock, Point Blank

 

I'll stop now...

 

Funny you mention Clash, as I've been giving some consideration to doing some TV specials like WCW used to...

 

I think Empire just became the best possibility. Its simple, its direct, and it ties in with the name of the project. Me likee...

[James Casey]

I think Empire just became the best possibility. Its simple, its direct, and it ties in with the name of the project. Me likee...

 

Heh. I wrote it down, thought 'Yes, that works!'

 

Then I looked back at the thread title and went 'Oh...'

 

I'm still claiming it's original, though. One man's subconscious plagiarism is another man's victorious royalties battle, as the courts have found on more than one occasion.